Upgrading From Nikon D500

[PhotoLover]

Eh, I don’t really agree with a lot of the advice given. First, yes, you can handhold a 500mm f/4 G. I shot the previous version of the 500mm, which was lighter, but didn’t have VR, for 7-8 years and almost never used a tripod. I currently shoot with the 600mm f/4 FL E and have never put it on a tripod. I frequently hike upwards of 2 miles with the lens on a Black Rapid strap or even just carrying it by hand. It’s not that bad—and I’m not in great shape.

Second, I think you could find a used Z8 body in your price range. But a Z8 won’t solve the problems you’ve identified. The 200-500 f/5.6 is just a slow focusing lens. A 500mm f/5.6 will focus much faster, but it won’t have any effect on bokeh. As others have mentioned, getting closer to your subject and shooting subjects that farther from the background will fix the bokeh issues. Of course, a 500mm f/4 will help, and it will focus MUCH faster than the 200-500mm f/5.6.

Third, Nikon’s policy used to be that it would repair a lens until it was two generations old. The 500mm f/4 G is one generation old, but even assuming that Nikon will stop repairing it, you’ll have some runway for repairs with businesses like APS. I’d ask Nikon what its policy is currently and whether it can repair a 500mm f/4 G. I’d also ask APS whether it anticipates being able to repair a 500mm f/4 G for a few more years.

As to upgrading the camera or lens first, I think it depends on what you’re more frustrated by. It seems to me that you have more of a lens issue than a camera issue. So, it might make sense to upgrade the lens now and save for a camera afterward. While saving, you could also work on your fieldcraft so that you can approach birds more closely and identify opportunities where the background is further from the subject, which will benefit you immensely when moving to full frame.

Interesting on the size and weight thing. I believe I am reasonably fit and strong, and I found carrying even the 200-500 around all day tiring/annoying. I'm sure I could carry and handhold a 600 f/4 or 500 f/4 if I wanted to, but I really don't think I'd enjoy it! While the 500 pf on a D500 (with or without 1.4 TC) yeah, I cheerfully carry that around all day. Use a Black Rapid strap usually. For a long hike might use a cotton carrier thing.

 

[Beau Cotter]

I ended up going with the 500 f4 G lens, I got a pretty good deal on one in great condition. Just came in the mail today, and I can say it is heavy! I think I'll be able to get used to it though, it focuses so much faster than the 200-500, it's pretty crazy! I got the lens, and a neoprene lens coat for it for under $1600, although around $1750 after taxes and shipping fees...

Going out tomorrow morning, we'll see how she does!

Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice and tips!

 

[Abinoone]

I ended up going with the 500 f4 G lens, I got a pretty good deal on one in great condition. Just came in the mail today, and I can say it is heavy! I think I'll be able to get used to it though, it focuses so much faster than the 200-500, it's pretty crazy! I got the lens, and a neoprene lens coat for it for under $1600, although around $1750 after taxes and shipping fees...

Going out tomorrow morning, we'll see how she does!

Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice and tips!

Congratulations Beau! Great choice - enjoy! Be sure to let us know how you do with the lens, and share a few of your images. Good luck!

 

[Beau Cotter]

Congratulations Beau! Great choice - enjoy! Be sure to let us know how you do with the lens, and share a few of your images. Good luck!

For sure, thank you sir!

 

[bleirer]

You might look into a monopod to take some of the weight in certain shooting situations.

 

[ZecaM-forum]

Hello! Im new here, I am a 16-year-old bird photographer located in Michigan, I would consider myself an intermediate photographer, I use the Nikon D500 with the good ole 200-500 f/5.6.
I have been thinking about upgrading. I am throwing around the idea of either getting a D850, or looking for a Nikkor 500 f4 g vr, to use with the d500. (I know its heavy, Im pretty young though and haven't had problems with fatigue yet)

What do you think would be the best option?

Also not entirely sure how these forums work, so apologies if I did anything wrong!
Thanks for any info
Beau

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens is an amazing lens. I've had the G version for 5 years and I have taken awesome shots with it. Nowadays we have almost all the photographers dumping the DSLR cameras and lenses for mirrorless. Don't do it. First, the "old" lenses are still very much useful for great prices. I just purchased from Nikon directly The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens brand new for $ 5,687.95 dollars. A steal! Phenomenal lens! Snappy AF, sharp as tack, not as light as the Z version. But, hey for the price!

Let me tell you something that may shock you. I have been shooting BIF for decades, I have had all sorts of brand lenses and cameras. After Nikon has launched the Multi-CAM 20K 153-point AF system on the D5, D500 and later on to the D850 I never came back to any other system. I have now had the Z9 for one year and the Z6 since launched. I just purchased the D6 after I had the Z9 for 2 years and let me tell you why. I like to shoot early in the morning when many birds are flying in and out from their "sleeping" spots to their "warming up eating spots" and to my surprise the DSLRs perform way better in the “dawn” or “morning twilight”. The Z9 cannot autofocus BIF when Shooting at 10 to 12 EV when light is low. Only when 3 or 4 f-stops above that light value. The camera cannot acquire, let alone AF-Track anything. The D500 which I have 2 bodies. I purchased a brand new one because it is a unique and phenomenal camera for BIF in low light and otherwise. I purchased a new one since the camera went out of production although B&H is back selling "gray market" bodies now. The D6 is even better at shooting in low EV values. I purchased the D6 brand new after one year shooting BIF in low light with the Z9. I have never shared this with anyone. But I was really frustrated about the "flaw" of the Z9 not being able to AF at my preferred hour of the day. Now I will be delighted to use my new 400 f/2.8 at even lower EV values and be able to lock and AF-track BIF at “dawn” or “morning twilight”.

Be careful with advice from mirrorless system guys; the majority are parrots repeating what they see and hear from youtuber "experts", especially the "sharp lenses generation". All this new generation talks about is sharpness, sharpness, sharpness. There are way more pertinent factors about lenses than sharpness. But this is a subject for another topic.

Now since you want to purchase an AF-S 500mm f/4.0 on a budget, purchase the AF-S 500mm f/4.0 D IF-ED II. This lens is the prior version of the G VR model. It is lighter than the G model. It weighs about 3430 grams. It does not have VR on it. Who cares if you are shooting action shots anyways. You can still find good copies on eBay, especially from Japan.

I hope this has given you a good perspective about your D500 and the lens you are pursuing to purchase.

One of these days I will make a video and post this fact so that photographers stop "dumping" DSLRs because it's "better". The question is "better" for what? I do like my Z9 but I only shoot BIF when I have plenty of light. “dawn” or “morning twilight”? forget it. I beat the hell out of anyone with any mirrorless camera. If you are interested, let's try and see how it goes. Blue skies to you : )

 

[Dustydewey]

The 500 pf is the Best Buy for a birding lens using DSLR on a budget. You will also want a 1.4x teleconverter to go with it.

At the same time the Z 8/9 is the best body for birding in the Nikon arena. Superior subject detection autofocus plus the ability to shoot at 20 fps create unique opportunities not possible with dslr cameras.

Unfortunately, bird photography equipment tends to be on the expensive side. You are young and have years to develop talent and acquire equipment.

Look for deals on used equipment.

and NO blackout in view finder while tracking Birds In Flight BIF I started with D500 to D850 to presently Z8. all along with my 300 mm PF and 500mm PF and I find even sharper images , More keepers even with 1.4 TC attached making set up very versatile Ditch the 200-500 mm and move up to better glass and perhaps used Z8 at latter date ! ( to the young man )

 

[PhotoLover]

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens is an amazing lens. I've had the G version for 5 years and I have taken awesome shots with it. Nowadays we have almost all the photographers dumping the DSLR cameras and lenses for mirrorless. Don't do it. First, the "old" lenses are still very much useful for great prices. I just purchased from Nikon directly The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens brand new for $ 5,687.95 dollars. A steal! Phenomenal lens! Snappy AF, sharp as tack, not as light as the Z version. But, hey for the price!

Let me tell you something that may shock you. I have been shooting BIF for decades, I have had all sorts of brand lenses and cameras. After Nikon has launched the Multi-CAM 20K 153-point AF system on the D5, D500 and later on to the D850 I never came back to any other system. I have now had the Z9 for one year and the Z6 since launched. I just purchased the D6 after I had the Z9 for 2 years and let me tell you why. I like to shoot early in the morning when many birds are flying in and out from their "sleeping" spots to their "warming up eating spots" and to my surprise the DSLRs perform way better in the “dawn” or “morning twilight”. The Z9 cannot autofocus BIF when Shooting at 10 to 12 EV when light is low. Only when 3 or 4 f-stops above that light value. The camera cannot acquire, let alone AF-Track anything. The D500 which I have 2 bodies. I purchased a brand new one because it is a unique and phenomenal camera for BIF in low light and otherwise. I purchased a new one since the camera went out of production although B&H is back selling "gray market" bodies now. The D6 is even better at shooting in low EV values. I purchased the D6 brand new after one year shooting BIF in low light with the Z9. I have never shared this with anyone. But I was really frustrated about the "flaw" of the Z9 not being able to AF at my preferred hour of the day. Now I will be delighted to use my new 400 f/2.8 at even lower EV values and be able to lock and AF-track BIF at “dawn” or “morning twilight”.

Be careful with advice from mirrorless system guys; the majority are parrots repeating what they see and hear from youtuber "experts", especially the "sharp lenses generation". All this new generation talks about is sharpness, sharpness, sharpness. There are way more pertinent factors about lenses than sharpness. But this is a subject for another topic.

Now since you want to purchase an AF-S 500mm f/4.0 on a budget, purchase the AF-S 500mm f/4.0 D IF-ED II. This lens is the prior version of the G VR model. It is lighter than the G model. It weighs about 3430 grams. It does not have VR on it. Who cares if you are shooting action shots anyways. You can still find good copies on eBay, especially from Japan.

I hope this has given you a good perspective about your D500 and the lens you are pursuing to purchase.

One of these days I will make a video and post this fact so that photographers stop "dumping" DSLRs because it's "better". The question is "better" for what? I do like my Z9 but I only shoot BIF when I have plenty of light. “dawn” or “morning twilight”? forget it. I beat the hell out of anyone with any mirrorless camera. If you are interested, let's try and see how it goes. Blue skies to you : )

Quite a number of people on this forum have Z8s and Z9s and I've heard no reports from them about low light AF being worse than with D850s, D500s, etc. Hopefully a few of those folks will weigh in; I mention this because your statement is contrary to other reports I've seen.

I will disagree with this statement:

Now since you want to purchase an AF-S 500mm f/4.0 on a budget, purchase the AF-S 500mm f/4.0 D IF-ED II. This lens is the prior version of the G VR model. It is lighter than the G model. It weighs about 3430 grams. It does not have VR on it. Who cares if you are shooting action shots anyways.

I care about VR, and I mostly shoot wildlife (with 500 pf). Sure, BIF, shutter speed should be high, likely no need for VR. But other wildlife subjects in weak light ... VR is a wonderful thing. In 2024, I can't imagine shooting wildlife without VR; too many good lens (dSLR world) or camera options that have excellent VR.

 

[groob]

Quite a number of people on this forum have Z8s and Z9s and I've heard no reports from them about low light AF being worse than with D850s, D500s, etc. Hopefully a few of those folks will weigh in; I mention this because your statement is contrary to other reports I've seen.

I will disagree with this statement:



I care about VR, and I mostly shoot wildlife (with 500 pf). Sure, BIF, shutter speed should be high, likely no need for VR. But other wildlife subjects in weak light ... VR is a wonderful thing. In 2024, I can't imagine shooting wildlife without VR; too many good lens (dSLR world) or camera options that have excellent VR.

There’s nothing my D850 did better than my Z9 except battery life.

 

[PhotoLover]

There’s nothing my D850 did better than my Z9 except battery life.

That would have been my guess. Many folks here have Z8s and Z9s, and seem to find them excellent, with no particular concerns about low-light versus dSLRS.

 

[Rassie]

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens is an amazing lens. I've had the G version for 5 years and I have taken awesome shots with it. Nowadays we have almost all the photographers dumping the DSLR cameras and lenses for mirrorless. Don't do it. First, the "old" lenses are still very much useful for great prices. I just purchased from Nikon directly The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens brand new for $ 5,687.95 dollars. A steal! Phenomenal lens! Snappy AF, sharp as tack, not as light as the Z version. But, hey for the price!

Let me tell you something that may shock you. I have been shooting BIF for decades, I have had all sorts of brand lenses and cameras. After Nikon has launched the Multi-CAM 20K 153-point AF system on the D5, D500 and later on to the D850 I never came back to any other system. I have now had the Z9 for one year and the Z6 since launched. I just purchased the D6 after I had the Z9 for 2 years and let me tell you why. I like to shoot early in the morning when many birds are flying in and out from their "sleeping" spots to their "warming up eating spots" and to my surprise the DSLRs perform way better in the “dawn” or “morning twilight”. The Z9 cannot autofocus BIF when Shooting at 10 to 12 EV when light is low. Only when 3 or 4 f-stops above that light value. The camera cannot acquire, let alone AF-Track anything. The D500 which I have 2 bodies. I purchased a brand new one because it is a unique and phenomenal camera for BIF in low light and otherwise. I purchased a new one since the camera went out of production although B&H is back selling "gray market" bodies now. The D6 is even better at shooting in low EV values. I purchased the D6 brand new after one year shooting BIF in low light with the Z9. I have never shared this with anyone. But I was really frustrated about the "flaw" of the Z9 not being able to AF at my preferred hour of the day. Now I will be delighted to use my new 400 f/2.8 at even lower EV values and be able to lock and AF-track BIF at “dawn” or “morning twilight”.

Be careful with advice from mirrorless system guys; the majority are parrots repeating what they see and hear from youtuber "experts", especially the "sharp lenses generation". All this new generation talks about is sharpness, sharpness, sharpness. There are way more pertinent factors about lenses than sharpness. But this is a subject for another topic.

Now since you want to purchase an AF-S 500mm f/4.0 on a budget, purchase the AF-S 500mm f/4.0 D IF-ED II. This lens is the prior version of the G VR model. It is lighter than the G model. It weighs about 3430 grams. It does not have VR on it. Who cares if you are shooting action shots anyways. You can still find good copies on eBay, especially from Japan.

I hope this has given you a good perspective about your D500 and the lens you are pursuing to purchase.

One of these days I will make a video and post this fact so that photographers stop "dumping" DSLRs because it's "better". The question is "better" for what? I do like my Z9 but I only shoot BIF when I have plenty of light. “dawn” or “morning twilight”? forget it. I beat the hell out of anyone with any mirrorless camera. If you are interested, let's try and see how it goes. Blue skies to you : )

@Steve Perry, the owner of Backcountry Gallery (this forum) uses mostly mirrorless cameras now. As a professional photographer he shoots all kinds of wildlife, and he also leads tours to Africa for wildlife photography. Why don't you try to convince Steve of your viewpoint about the low light autofocus shortcomings of the Z9 compared to D6 or D500? Since Steve switched to mirrorless I haven't seen him post any recent images made with a DSLR.

My own opinion is that any perceived shortcomings of Nikon mirrorless cameras compared to Nikon DSLR's are largely negated by the extra benefits that mirrorless systems provide.

 

[fcotterill]

My primary wildlife camera is the Z9. The Reasons include:
silent-shutter;
high frame rates;
PreCapture, image quality (including cropping flexibility);
full frame AF coverage;
Subject Detection, especially eye-detection;
Autofocus works at fStops higher than f5.6, even f9, f11;
No more AFFT;
Last but not least, we have game changing options in the Z Nikkors for wildlife photography. These are the choices in lighter options for long focal lengths (600 PF, 800 PF especially) as well as Ultrawide zooms.

However I use my D6 primarily for the advantages of its cross-type sensor based Autofocus plus the less widely know about AF features. Collectively, these empower the D6 with basically instant lock on, and extremely robust Close Focus Priority. Remarkably as it may sound, the subject Detection on mammals and birds is outstanding in the D6 (embodied in how pattern recognition works in the eye and face detection settings). These features further distinguish the D6 as unique among all DSLRs. One sees these advantages especially on fast moving/erratic subjects within vegetation.

These differences in AF are well established, although MILC Autofocus systems will probably close this gap in the next generation. One can achieve high success rates with a Z9 in these situations, a Handoff/AF Override setup closes this gap - Custom Area modes with Recall Focus Position

I detailed the differences wrt the D6 Autofocus, including cited technical references, in my posts in this thread

Struggling with Z8 focus tracking

I'm not sure how many people actually subject their systems to test it? When I look at the image at normal magnification, it appears in focus. Now pixel peep at 100% and it's all too apparent that the observable focus point was different than the one indicated by the EVF green square and the...

bcgforums.com

Similarly to the D5, the D6 sensor has inherently better image quality at high ISOs, particularly in shadow recovery, but obviously less flexibility for cropping. Here lies the real world advantage for lowlight conditions, at least without the workloads of post processing Z9 images for noise reduction etc.

Actually, in Lowlight conditions the EVF of Nikon Mirrorless cameras has big advantages over even the brightest OVF of a DSLR. The differences are obvious with wysiwyg Settings; and with correct exposure the Z9 Autofocus works well in my experiences.

 

[Dionigi Colombo]

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens is an amazing lens. I've had the G version for 5 years and I have taken awesome shots with it. Nowadays we have almost all the photographers dumping the DSLR cameras and lenses for mirrorless. Don't do it. First, the "old" lenses are still very much useful for great prices. I just purchased from Nikon directly The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR Lens brand new for $ 5,687.95 dollars. A steal! Phenomenal lens! Snappy AF, sharp as tack, not as light as the Z version. But, hey for the price!

Let me tell you something that may shock you. I have been shooting BIF for decades, I have had all sorts of brand lenses and cameras. After Nikon has launched the Multi-CAM 20K 153-point AF system on the D5, D500 and later on to the D850 I never came back to any other system. I have now had the Z9 for one year and the Z6 since launched. I just purchased the D6 after I had the Z9 for 2 years and let me tell you why. I like to shoot early in the morning when many birds are flying in and out from their "sleeping" spots to their "warming up eating spots" and to my surprise the DSLRs perform way better in the “dawn” or “morning twilight”. The Z9 cannot autofocus BIF when Shooting at 10 to 12 EV when light is low. Only when 3 or 4 f-stops above that light value. The camera cannot acquire, let alone AF-Track anything. The D500 which I have 2 bodies. I purchased a brand new one because it is a unique and phenomenal camera for BIF in low light and otherwise. I purchased a new one since the camera went out of production although B&H is back selling "gray market" bodies now. The D6 is even better at shooting in low EV values. I purchased the D6 brand new after one year shooting BIF in low light with the Z9. I have never shared this with anyone. But I was really frustrated about the "flaw" of the Z9 not being able to AF at my preferred hour of the day. Now I will be delighted to use my new 400 f/2.8 at even lower EV values and be able to lock and AF-track BIF at “dawn” or “morning twilight”.

Be careful with advice from mirrorless system guys; the majority are parrots repeating what they see and hear from youtuber "experts", especially the "sharp lenses generation". All this new generation talks about is sharpness, sharpness, sharpness. There are way more pertinent factors about lenses than sharpness. But this is a subject for another topic.

Now since you want to purchase an AF-S 500mm f/4.0 on a budget, purchase the AF-S 500mm f/4.0 D IF-ED II. This lens is the prior version of the G VR model. It is lighter than the G model. It weighs about 3430 grams. It does not have VR on it. Who cares if you are shooting action shots anyways. You can still find good copies on eBay, especially from Japan.

I hope this has given you a good perspective about your D500 and the lens you are pursuing to purchase.

One of these days I will make a video and post this fact so that photographers stop "dumping" DSLRs because it's "better". The question is "better" for what? I do like my Z9 but I only shoot BIF when I have plenty of light. “dawn” or “morning twilight”? forget it. I beat the hell out of anyone with any mirrorless camera. If you are interested, let's try and see how it goes. Blue skies to you : )

I absolutely agree, the Z9 in low light slows down and struggles to focus, assuming it can. I too for animals at sunrise and sunset prefer to use SLRs. It is true that in the viewfinder of a D6 you can see less well and in certain conditions it is much darker than the Z9. However, the D6 focuses without wavering the Z9 does not.
In bright light many of these problems vanish, not all
MLs definitely have advantages, in my use the silent shooting is a big help, (totographing mainly in hunting areas any noise puts the animai on the run), the full frame focus and little else
To date, an ML in 90-95% makes photography “easier” than with SLRs, but in that small percentage it does not.
There must be a reason why in F1 many professionals for certain situations/shoots still use professional SLRs