It really does say that in their FAQ.
USA or Gray Market?
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It really does say that in their FAQ.
fotabug
New member
Thank you for the information! Good to know.
nmerc_photos
Well-known member
not to beat the dead horse, but there are still people who would rather listen to decade old rumors than the truth, hope this helps 
if anyone else has questions, just send an email or make one phone call and you'll find the answer direct from Nikon themselves
if anyone else has questions, just send an email or make one phone call and you'll find the answer direct from Nikon themselves
EricKlees
Well-known member
Like i said all along. It will likely depend on the tech that process the item. It's clear as day in Nikon's website that won't be the case.
To save a little bit isn't worth it to me to take that chance. Buying used is a different story if you get it at a good enough price that you could buy another and still be cheaper than new.
If i were you I'd save that response if you have grey gear. But you notice they left an out to not repair it. I think if you get a grey item repaired, you should count your blessings as I've had multiple friends that have been denied cleaning and adjustment services along with repairs in just the past year..
At best it's very iffy/scetchy to count on
To save a little bit isn't worth it to me to take that chance. Buying used is a different story if you get it at a good enough price that you could buy another and still be cheaper than new.
If i were you I'd save that response if you have grey gear. But you notice they left an out to not repair it. I think if you get a grey item repaired, you should count your blessings as I've had multiple friends that have been denied cleaning and adjustment services along with repairs in just the past year..
At best it's very iffy/scetchy to count on
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I agree with this assessment. As a prospective buyer I do not feel reassured that if I buy gray market I may not be able to get the equipment serviced.
From the UK perspective this is a clarification of the USA position.not to beat the dead horse, but there are still people who would rather listen to decade old rumors than the truth, hope this helps
if anyone else has questions, just send an email or make one phone call and you'll find the answer direct from Nikon themselves
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What is not mentioned is the cost of repairs either in or out of warranty.
Nikon like many companies seem to operate repair bands and prices - which could be $1,000 - though many repairs cost less.
A few years back I had a main circuit board failure of a D850 repaired in its second year. Fortunately at the time Nikon UK had a 2 year extended warranty scheme - as I understand the repair cost over £500.
Extended warranty and insurance schemes are not exactly the same as a manufacturers warranty.
With a Nikon warranty claim you send it off and it comes back repaired (sometimes eventually) at no cost to you except perhaps shipping.
Insurance schemes are typically one year over one or perhaps four years over one to "sort of" extend the manufacturers warranty.
Usually you have to get an estimate and submit a claim - which slows up payment.
The extended warranty policy wording is rarely inspected at the equipment buying stage - and may have extra conditions and payment limitations.
As an example some electrical components for hybrid or electric cars can cost £/$10,000 fitted.
Car extended warranties often have an age contribution clause.
As an example if a £/$10,000 repair happens when the vehicle is 7 years old and the warranty provider decides the normal life of the part is 10 years, 7 years is deducted and you get paid just £/$3,000.
While warranty issues NOT caused by external accidental damage are uncommon - it is wise to have some money somewhere in reserve for if you are unlucky.
In the UK the position is partially different in that the RETAILER has to sell products reasonably fit for purpose with a life expectancy depending on price paid of up to 6 years.
If a low shutter count Z9 fails just outside the 1 year Nikon UK warranty (in the EEC it is usually 2 years) you have a good claim for the cost of out of Nikon warranty repairs from the RETAILER.
If you drop and damage equipment that needs a repair - either you have accidental damage insurance or you do not.
EDIT - a decision for Nikon USA is if they prioritise their warranty repairs or products they imported from Nikon Japan - repairs of grey imports might take longer.
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O
Well-known member
Call Nikon service, give them the serial number in question and ask them if its a local or gray product, they can tell and should tell you easily.
Local product is registered usually by the owners to complete their warranty.
Easy.
As to service of grey product, in fact its even a faster turn around in many cases, never been an issue providing you choose a reputable dealer.
As to warranty for grey purchase through a reputable grey dealer, never an issue in years, again even faster turn around.
I have never had any issues or delays in dropping in Grey new or used product to Nikon and getting normal service.
Cant speak for any other locations.
Only an opinion
O
Well-known member
Yes your right, things have changed dramatically, it even used to be tough getting into NPS, not so over the past few years.
The retail ways have been changing, smaller camera retailers or agents have closed, lots of independent service canters have also closed.
We live in a business world where the big are getting bigger and the traditional smaller operators need to or are getting out. I think it’s called a change in growth.
Margins and smaller Volume unit sales impact smaller operations, larger full range stocking agents are more efficient.
You can buy directly on line from Nikon at retail level, You can buy everything on Amazon, and On line E Bay shops, or large integrated Grey market Box shifters.
Today i guess for manufacturers of products Its better to deal with a few larger well founded global retail operations rather than a sprinkling of hundreds and hundreds of smaller brick and mortar small shop dealers who can’t survive on just selling cameras.
The world hasn't finished changing.
Nikon as have other companies have relaxed many boundaries, they used to dictate to loyal customers and feed us on bread and water so to speak, as things have changed they now a desperately keen to provide service, innovative products and incredible support like never before, Sadly often to justify higher prices.
Mind you there actually all doing a reasonably good job at kissing up to customers LOL at the moment.
Only an opinion
Not to be contrary, but the sense I get from these recent posts is misleading for certain things.
Grey market service from Nikon USA is non-existent. Other countries have different laws that govern manufacturer's warranties and cannot be applied to the US.
The market place has evolved over the years, but the economic realities never change. Your comments are not misleading, but single out Nikon in a way to provide a general attitude towards companies.
Large retail operations have adapted to E-Commerce. i.e. B&H, Adorama, Robert's Camera, Allen's Camera, ......These authorized Nikon dealers have offered Nikon's products at MSRP. They have not discounted Nikon's pricing--and only when approved by Nikon. They have stock and provide people with incentives, in some cases, to purchase from them. This is not new.
The smaller retailers have closed because: rent/building overhead has increased significantly; labor costs have increased significantly; and local market demographics of equipment purchasers has decreased significantly therefore not allowing profitability to keep up with expenses. The 'mom & pop'/bricks and mortar businesses cannot survive in the e-commerce world unless they were able to adapt. And the cost to adapt is significant. This has been happening in every industry. Either you have the product to ship or you don't. If someone else has it, even 3,000 miles away, then it is purchased.
Nikon is not doing anything now that they did not do in the past. Originally they were innovators and provided great support and service. Then other manufacturers 'caught up' and surpassed Nikon in many aspects. And now, Nikon has awakened (this doesn't happen overnight). They are not 'kissing up to customers'..they are doing what any successful business must do to survive. And, I completely disagree with your comment regarding the justification of 'higher prices'. In fact, the introduction of the mirrorless line and Z lenses in particular have provided superior products at lower pricing than their pre-Z counterparts. Don't shoot me with exceptions! And costs for everything have gone up--contrary to many public statements.
And last but not least, Nikon did stop selling 3rd party companies OEM parts for repair and directed all repairs to Nikon USA for out of warranty service. There was an outcry. So now Nikon has launched their 'DIY' repair service. Let's see how this works out. I'm sure there will be entrepreneurs who will figure something out here as well.
Long I know......There is nothing here that Nikon has been or is doing that is not 'normal' and expected of a good company. And people will always follow the same course of action when deciding to make purchases. This will never change. The marketplace changes.
hef19898
Active member
One of the things someone like me bot living in the US never understood. In Germany, Nikon and their repair partners happily repair each and every Nikon product, if they have the parts available. As this stuff tends to have a very, very long service life, sometimes parts aren't available anymore. They don't care from where and when you bought it.
The exception is warranty, obviously. Even there so, Nikon offers a 5 year lens warranty for lenses not bought through Nikon itself ornone of their approved partners. Case in point, Amazon is NOT listed on Nikon Germany's website as a partner eligible for the 5 year warranty, you still get it for lenses bought through Amazon. My take away is, that Nikon's website is not necessarily the most reliable source, their hard to find general terms and conditions are.
Especially in the US there was an apparent push by OEMs to limit repairability, Nikon US followed that trend. This did nothing to stop the grey market imports, as everyone is allowed to legally import Nikon products (it would up for the US government to chanhe that, not Nikon). All Nikon did, was to loose any repair revenue from grey market product repairs. That changed, from ehat I understood.
The big points to consider:
- repairs under warranty are different from normal repairs
- Nikon US is a US-local legal entity owned and controlled by Nikon (to what extend Nikon US can decide such things without passing through Nikon HQ can only be answered by insiders)
- everyone can import Nikon stuff
- camera gear ain't cars, there is no US spec for those products
- Nikon, like everyone else importing and selling stuff in a given market, has to extend guarantees and warranties and accept product liability as applicable in a given market
And all that considered, it was business decision by Nikon to not repair products not imported by themselves. As was cutting off third party repair services from spares. Both were at least risky from an anti-trust perspective, abuse of market position and power and all that.
Given how rarely modern camera gear breaks down, I'd not hesitate to buy from a third party if the price is right.
The exception is warranty, obviously. Even there so, Nikon offers a 5 year lens warranty for lenses not bought through Nikon itself ornone of their approved partners. Case in point, Amazon is NOT listed on Nikon Germany's website as a partner eligible for the 5 year warranty, you still get it for lenses bought through Amazon. My take away is, that Nikon's website is not necessarily the most reliable source, their hard to find general terms and conditions are.
Especially in the US there was an apparent push by OEMs to limit repairability, Nikon US followed that trend. This did nothing to stop the grey market imports, as everyone is allowed to legally import Nikon products (it would up for the US government to chanhe that, not Nikon). All Nikon did, was to loose any repair revenue from grey market product repairs. That changed, from ehat I understood.
The big points to consider:
- repairs under warranty are different from normal repairs
- Nikon US is a US-local legal entity owned and controlled by Nikon (to what extend Nikon US can decide such things without passing through Nikon HQ can only be answered by insiders)
- everyone can import Nikon stuff
- camera gear ain't cars, there is no US spec for those products
- Nikon, like everyone else importing and selling stuff in a given market, has to extend guarantees and warranties and accept product liability as applicable in a given market
And all that considered, it was business decision by Nikon to not repair products not imported by themselves. As was cutting off third party repair services from spares. Both were at least risky from an anti-trust perspective, abuse of market position and power and all that.
Given how rarely modern camera gear breaks down, I'd not hesitate to buy from a third party if the price is right.
O
Well-known member
OUCH.............
I respect some of the points you make..............
Yes different countries have different situations.
The industry is down 50 % or so globally and still shrinking the last time i looked yet some key players profits are exceptionally high, that comes for unit volume sales in growth or product margins, my tip is largely margin, on the back of significant cost cutting = savings, and that is fantastic and what should happen in any modern company.
Everything that Nikon is doing is to be expected and as you say normal, its just different to things of the past at least in this neck of the woods.
I am a Nikon user and have been for a long time, i find their service and support in my case to be the reason i am still with them other than the image files are to my taste.
I think i am causing a digression off topic, and to respecting the OP i need to get back on topic of how to tell if a product is grey or not.
Obtain the serial number of the product in question and call Nikon service !
Only an opinion
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Warranty laws and merchantability are different in various countries. Just because one has a more lenient approach does not mean it should translate to all.
The Federal government has nothing to do with people importing/buying for resale products from 'friendly' nations.
Nikon USA used to be an independent company...no ownership by Nikon Corporate. Nikon USA developed the market and serviced the entire USA from the 1950's until their acquisition by Nikon.
In order to provide this service and products to the USA marketplace..and protect their dealers..and provide USA warranty service....Nikon USA needed to limit who is entitled to USA warranty service..to products purchased through their authorized dealer network. Grey market goods are brought in to undermine the company providing these goods and services to their USA dealers. Therefore the limitations. One makes a purchase based on all information. You want to buy grey..get it serviced, if needed, by the company providing that service. And if it is 7,000 miles from where you are..so be it. Your choice.
Nikon's 'loss of repair revenue' is insignificant compared to the undermining of their USA dealer network and services that they provide.
And there is nothing that meets any anti-trust considerations regarding this conversation.
Nikon Corporate continued this policy because it makes economic sense for this market place.
How about Nikon discontinuing Nikon USA....everyone can purchase from wherever they want and get Warranty service for 5 years!
But you must send your equipment to India, Thailand, or Indonesia. Let's see how that goes over and what happens to the brand.
Nikon is not the only camera brand. You want options..you got options. Buy another brand that meets your requirements.
Antitrust refers to markets and industries where there are no choices because of collusion or unilateral decision makeing that results in artificially inflated pricing. The camera industry does not fall into this category.
The Federal government has nothing to do with people importing/buying for resale products from 'friendly' nations.
Nikon USA used to be an independent company...no ownership by Nikon Corporate. Nikon USA developed the market and serviced the entire USA from the 1950's until their acquisition by Nikon.
In order to provide this service and products to the USA marketplace..and protect their dealers..and provide USA warranty service....Nikon USA needed to limit who is entitled to USA warranty service..to products purchased through their authorized dealer network. Grey market goods are brought in to undermine the company providing these goods and services to their USA dealers. Therefore the limitations. One makes a purchase based on all information. You want to buy grey..get it serviced, if needed, by the company providing that service. And if it is 7,000 miles from where you are..so be it. Your choice.
Nikon's 'loss of repair revenue' is insignificant compared to the undermining of their USA dealer network and services that they provide.
And there is nothing that meets any anti-trust considerations regarding this conversation.
Nikon Corporate continued this policy because it makes economic sense for this market place.
How about Nikon discontinuing Nikon USA....everyone can purchase from wherever they want and get Warranty service for 5 years!
But you must send your equipment to India, Thailand, or Indonesia. Let's see how that goes over and what happens to the brand.
Nikon is not the only camera brand. You want options..you got options. Buy another brand that meets your requirements.
Antitrust refers to markets and industries where there are no choices because of collusion or unilateral decision makeing that results in artificially inflated pricing. The camera industry does not fall into this category.
hef19898
Active member
As someone who went through multiple anti-trust trainings, and more than one case of borderline abusing a near-monopoly position, I can tell that what Nikon US did, using their market position in the US to limit market access for third parties, is one of the text book examples of abuse of market power that could get a company into hot water. Exactly for the reasons you mentioned, anti-trust laws exist to prevent that kind of behaviour. And my training included US anti-trust laws.
That Nikon US was never, to my knowledge, fined or investigated, means that a) their behaviour was borderline but on the legal sides of things b) never amounted to a true abuse of market position c) no one ever launched an investigation.
All of that seems to be in the past so: multiple people here had grey market products serviced and repaired by Nikon in the US, Nikon even sqys so much on their homepage with the exception of warranty (which is completely normal in the legal frame work we are looking at, and even their they seem to honor warranty for private imports) and they even launched are self-service portal.
So regardless of what they did, or didn't do, in the past they have improved quite a bit.
Disclaimer: None of that even remotely affects me, Nikon in Europe is a completely different beast.
That Nikon US was never, to my knowledge, fined or investigated, means that a) their behaviour was borderline but on the legal sides of things b) never amounted to a true abuse of market position c) no one ever launched an investigation.
All of that seems to be in the past so: multiple people here had grey market products serviced and repaired by Nikon in the US, Nikon even sqys so much on their homepage with the exception of warranty (which is completely normal in the legal frame work we are looking at, and even their they seem to honor warranty for private imports) and they even launched are self-service portal.
So regardless of what they did, or didn't do, in the past they have improved quite a bit.
Disclaimer: None of that even remotely affects me, Nikon in Europe is a completely different beast.
O
Well-known member
The Grey Market has been and will always be an integral part of the global distribution of camera products and other goods, at what RRP is what regulates their activity levels and timing.
The OEM controls the product supply and placement.
How big a distribution part will Amazon play going forward, i mean Walmart, Costco, E Bay are selling an extensive and full range of camera products.
One would think OEM raining in product service is important when placing global distribution in the hands of very large major players.
Only an opinion
O
Well-known member
Thank you for the clarity, here in Oz i have never had an issue with having GREY product D3S, D700, D4, D4S, one D5, one D7100 nor any GREY lenses serviced locally by Nikon or given different treatment by Nikon.
Resale of GREY product was for some people an issue, and not for some others, it did effect prices achieved in some cases.
Only an opinion.
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hef19898
Active member
Yeah, this whole thing reminds me of the discussions around EU-reimported cars in the early 2000s. People actually believed that, e.g., BMW cars re-imported from Italy to Germany were actually different that a BMW bought from a German dealership, and I am not talking about stuff like leather interior or the stereo system, but things like "the Italian cars don't have the same quality and worse engines" and what not. Those cars even come with European Certificates-of-Confomity and full OEM warranties (thanks to the EU common market). And still people believed the OEMs fear mongering, even when everyone knew the cars in question rolled of the same assembly line...
SCoombs
Well-known member
There are exceptions, but as far as I know the legal system in the US generally does not pursue anti-trust action against a company unless it has a market share that is significantly greater than any market share that Nikon has ever had. I'm not so sure that the lack of any legal action means a whole lot here.
hef19898
Active member
Anti-trust cases are rarely brought, and if so rarely publicised. Market share itself is only one factor, market position and control for one product can be enough. Like an OEM giving a local partner a deal that guarantees that partner a monopoly for the OEMs products, that is a clear violation of anti-trust laws in the US and elsewhere.
Investigating that requires someone complaining, e.g. a competitor, or the violation being so blatant and / or huge that authorities start an investigation themselves. And then the legal bickering starts.
I not accusing Nikon US of anything, just saying that their past behaviour regarding the "grey market" was borderline, hence it propably involved a **** ton of legal work and analysis to make it water proof.
The vast majority of anti-trust violations are never ever investigated, let alone prosecuted. As is most white collar crime, sadly.
Investigating that requires someone complaining, e.g. a competitor, or the violation being so blatant and / or huge that authorities start an investigation themselves. And then the legal bickering starts.
I not accusing Nikon US of anything, just saying that their past behaviour regarding the "grey market" was borderline, hence it propably involved a **** ton of legal work and analysis to make it water proof.
The vast majority of anti-trust violations are never ever investigated, let alone prosecuted. As is most white collar crime, sadly.
O
Well-known member
hef19899: said "The vast majority of anti-trust violations are never ever investigated, let alone prosecuted. As is most white collar crime, sadly."
Here in Oz we have the same issue with regulators law makers not acting, we call them toothless tigers. They themselves are currently becoming a target of investigation over inaction.
We have such a massive issue here with rules and laws that exist but are nearly never acted upon, till its suited.
We live in a world transitioning to globalization, the big get bigger the small are consumed or closed down.
The rich powerful huge or famous don't always survive, its the adaptable that do.
Nikon is doing well for its bottom line, shareholders and for once listening and therefore trying harder to do the right thing for its customers.
Unless industry OEM get into some form of retailing directly with the public they will greatly expose their vulnerability if left just to Amazon E Bay Walmart etc.
Grey Market dealers have been supplied stock by OEM organizations for decades, knowingly at very competitive prices at times.
Only an opinion
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groob
Active member
NMerc has posted irrefutable proof that NikonUSA serviced his grey market 400mm f/2.8. My understanding is that, in the past, NikonUSA wouldn’t service grey market gear, but that has—hopefully—changed. NikonUSA’s website seems to indicate that it will service grey market gear, and I’d be pretty confident that is true. But the FAQ does still say that grey market gear will not be repaired.
Even so, I’d bet that some of the very good third party repair companies like APS could repair almost anything.
The question is I can buy a reconditioned 400 tc vr s from Amazon for $2500 less than new. It is almost certainly. Gray market. Would you do that?
groob
Active member
It depends on your risk tolerance. I would email Nikon and ask if they’d repair it. If they say yes, I’d feel quite confident in buying it, but because I am very cheap, I’d probably still wait for a refurb from Nikon. It’ll likely be the same price or cheaper, come with a short warranty, and your grey market concerns disappear.