USB-C PD Regulation in the EU: implications for Cameras etc

[fcotterill]

Basically, pending EU trade law will restrict sales of electronic devices, reliant on an internal battery, to only those that can be charged internally via USB-C (ie Power Delivery). Basically, this means cameras can only be sold if they can charged with a plug in USB-C PD cable. Several current models of ILCs do not meet this common charging standard, notably many DSLRs.

"On December 24th, 2024, you won't be able to sell most electronic devices in the EU with a removable or embedded rechargeable battery that isn't compliant with the USB-C Power Delivery directives. This includes mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, digital cameras, game consoles, headphones, earbuds, portable speakers, wireless mice, wireless keyboards, and portable navigation devices. (Laptops will be covered by the new rules at a later date.)...."

Remember This Date: December 28, 2024 | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

Do DSLRs have an expiration date?

dslrbodies.com

 

[Geoff_G]

I can understand the thinking that new products have to meet the requirement but making that retroactive to all existing products is not fair.

 

[Cameron T]

That's bureaucracy for you. But my further comments there are way too off topic for this forum.

It'll make life annoying for a lot of things, hopefully people get ready for it.

 

[Anjin San]

There’s been a long discussion about this very topic over on the Tidbits Talk forum (Apple products related) and while I like the idea of a single charging plug for all my stuff without having to take adapters and more spare cables…I do think the EU rules will stifle innovation for the next connector. The rules allow for development of future standards and replacement of USB-C…but the legal requirements mean that new standard isn’t going to be developed… chicken and egg problem because Apple or Samsung or whoever isn’t going to want to put 2 connectors on their phone or force users to have the adapter which we all will hate on. Ut there are a lot of things I don’t like about the EU rules…and in the long term I think Brexit will become common because the countries in the EU aren’t going to give up sovereignty to the central government like states do in the US…and the lack of a strong central government is going to be a long term problem for them. The EU also admitted a lot of marginal economy states and forced immigration rules that some states don’t like…and Germany and the o5er rich countries are tired already of spending to BIL out failing countries like Greece and others who refuse to fix the problems that are causing their economic problems.

Didn’t mean to turn this into a political response…just wanted to comment on the new charging requirements. It wouldn’t surprise me that if Apple is allowed under the rules they did away with a connector entirely and went to wireless charging and communication only.

 

[fcotterill]

The stated motive to legislate a common charger is to reduce electronic waste and also "lock-in" - primarily wrt smart phones. On the one hand, judging by most of the current Nikon ILCs, the USB C PD standard has major advantages. One the other, it's prescribing obsolescence on many relatively recently made products.

We see the trend in how most retailers do not include a battery charger with a new Nikon Zf. This has its pros and cons for ILCs devices, which typically require multiple batteries.
Steering away from the politics, the relevance of the pending EU law to this forum are some of the current ILCs - DSLRs especially. Europe is the single largest market. Ironically, several of the current models cannot be charged by PD. It's also not clear if the legislation applies to Used cameras (?) which will be counter productive.

The Latest CIPA Reports Show That DSLRs Aren't Dead

While DSLR sales have dropped percentage-wise compared to last year, there are still many being sold, according to the latest CIPA report.

www.thephoblographer.com

 

[Nick B.]

Most DSLR's (and mirrorless) cameras have removable batteries. Do these regulations mean that the external battery charger must be USB-C based? Or are they saying that the battery must be charged within camera with the camera having a USB-C port charger?

 

[Geoff_G]

Most DSLR's (and mirrorless) cameras have removable batteries. Do these regulations mean that the external battery charger must be USB-C based? Or are they saying that the battery must be charged within camera with the camera having a USB-C port charger?

Good question.

Perhaps this another possible solution...it has the USB-C port right on the battery....

 

[Calson]

Politicians are the least knowledgeable (dumbest) people on the planet. The Dell laptops and Android smartphones that were prone to bursting into flames would have met this new standard. The reason why so many cameras do provide USB charging is that it saves the manufacturer money by not having to include a charger with the camera.

That is the case for the Olympus OM-1 camera that sells for $2200 but does not include an external battery charger. I bought a third party charger to be able to charge two batteries while still using the camera.

 

[Geoff_G]

I'm all for the USB-C PD standard. My laptop, phone, headphones, Z8 and Z9 can all use the same charger. This is so handy when traveling.
But to kill all sales of existing devices that do not conform to USB-C PD seems well out of hand and far overreaching.

 

[txstone]

Basically, pending EU trade law will restrict sales of electronic devices, reliant on an internal battery, to only those that can be charged internally via USB-C (ie Power Delivery). Basically, this means cameras can only be sold if they can charged with a plug in USB-C PD cable. Several current models of ILCs do not meet this common charging standard, notably many DSLRs.

"On December 24th, 2024, you won't be able to sell most electronic devices in the EU with a removable or embedded rechargeable battery that isn't compliant with the USB-C Power Delivery directives. This includes mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, digital cameras, game consoles, headphones, earbuds, portable speakers, wireless mice, wireless keyboards, and portable navigation devices. (Laptops will be covered by the new rules at a later date.)...."

Remember This Date: December 28, 2024 | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

Do DSLRs have an expiration date?

dslrbodies.com

I had seen the USB-C announcement before, but was not aware of the PD implications.

The European Parliament announcement also mentions wireless charging as a possible follow-on without further details. Sometimes mentioned as a possible route for Apple in moving from their proprietary Lightning port on iPhone.

Long-awaited common charger for mobile devices will be a reality in 2024 | News | European Parliament

Following Parliament’s approval, EU consumers will soon be able to use a single charging solution for their electronic devices.

www.europarl.europa.eu

Interesting comments on DSLR shipments also. Thom mentions, “..the volume of DSLR shipments is now running at about a tenth that of mirrorless.”, while the CIPA article says (for CIPA), “However, close to 350,000 DSLRs (full frame and otherwise) have been shipped in 2023. That’s compared to a little over 1.2 million mirrorless (non-compact) cameras this year. That’s about 1 DSLR sold for every 3.4 mirrorless cameras sold.”

 

[SCoombs]

I actually (as a typically very tech-saavy person) find the whole PD thing to be confusing and to make everything more opaque.

I hadn't even heard of the standard until I got my Z8 and frankly it's frustrated me that I can't charge the battery using any of the USB chargers - including USB-C chargers - that Ibalready have. USB chargers have been so ubiquitous and universal (without the need for a mandate to make them so) that I'm sure I'm one among a billion people who already have a dozen of them hanging around that I've been able to keep in a drawer and quickly grab for just about anything I need to charge or power. This new standard makes all of those obsolete and so overnight I go from having a convenient stockpile of these very useful utility items to having zero. I'll have to spend a lot of money to get chargers for new devices all while keeping the ones I already have separate for use with older devices I still have, thus making everything more onerous, less convenient, and more difficult.

On top of that, I'm going to need to learn about this new standard and figure out what to buy and what can be used with what - something I can fairly easily do even if I find it annoying and time I'd rather spend on something else. Meanwhile, 90% of people are not going to have the tech sense to easily figure this out and will have a lot of frustration and confusion in their future.

 

[Geoff_G]

Seriously, has it come down to this ?
Question to EU: Why can't I buy a Nikon DSLR?
EU Answer: We don't like the way you have to charge them so no, we won't let you buy one.

 

[joe43]

In addition to USB-C PD chargers make sure the USB-C cable that comes with your new device, or the one you may buy to replace it, is matched properly to allow for higher/faster transfer speeds and wattages. The USB-C cable that comes with an Apple iphone 15 only allows for transfer speeds at USB 2.0. See more info about this at :

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/tech/article/review-iphone-15-pro-max-18403535.php

You can buy USB-C cables that have a LED light that tells you the wattage being used as you charge the device:

https://www.amazon.com/Charging-Dis...oocki+usb-c+cables,industrial,108&sr=1-3&th=1

If you have multiple USB-C devices with different wattage requirements, these may be what you need.

 

[John Navitsky]

whelp, for those who don’t like it (and i get it), you can thank apple

 

[BlackRockArt]

There’s been a long discussion about this very topic over on the Tidbits Talk forum (Apple products related) and while I like the idea of a single charging plug for all my stuff without having to take adapters and more spare cables…I do think the EU rules will stifle innovation for the next connector. The rules allow for development of future standards and replacement of USB-C…but the legal requirements mean that new standard isn’t going to be developed… chicken and egg problem because Apple or Samsung or whoever isn’t going to want to put 2 connectors on their phone or force users to have the adapter which we all will hate on. Ut there are a lot of things I don’t like about the EU rules…and in the long term I think Brexit will become common because the countries in the EU aren’t going to give up sovereignty to the central government like states do in the US…and the lack of a strong central government is going to be a long term problem for them. The EU also admitted a lot of marginal economy states and forced immigration rules that some states don’t like…and Germany and the o5er rich countries are tired already of spending to BIL out failing countries like Greece and others who refuse to fix the problems that are causing their economic problems.

Didn’t mean to turn this into a political response…just wanted to comment on the new charging requirements. It wouldn’t surprise me that if Apple is allowed under the rules they did away with a connector entirely and went to wireless charging and communication only.

Hi Anjin

There is far more going on with this PD USB-C regulation, the No. 1 reason is to reduce the amount of e-waste. Simply put, whereas 10 years ago, most EU countries and the United States of America simply dumped the "recycled waste" onto China & Asian countries, China has stopped accepting any shipment of "recycling materials", and the Philippines followed suit since then.

By setting a universal charging standard, the amount of plastic particles should be reduced by 15% (?) going into the trash.

The only loser is Apple Inc., which made a handsome $45B profit on lightening cable sales alone from 2012 to 2022.

Is this the best solution for the camera charging? No, but it's certainly better.

Oliver

 

[Wrogu]

I can still remeber times when in a drawer I had like 5-6 different chargers with 'soldered' cable and different plug on each one. Along new batteires (walkman,cd player, cellphone). That was a mess. If it was micro-USB I would be pissed, as that standard was a mechanical failure. USB-C is solid, convinient and can charge stuff up to 100W (or so?). This is one of topics where I find bureaucracy actually beneficial.

As a side note: I also kitesurf, pretty much all kiters are angry that there is no color coding standard on kitesurfing bars, every company has different valve and pump adapters have to be used, bar connectors have different set ups (pigails/knots), even some companies use non standard bindings spacing and screws standard ... All kiters wish for an agreemend in the industry ... but for over 20 years there has been none.

 

[fcotterill]

Battery incompatibility is probably the main issue using older cameras with the new standard. This includes Nikon DSLRs using batteries prior to current models. Another hassle are older batteries even of same lineage. For example, the first 2 versions of the ENEL18 (D4 and subsequent flagships) that USB C won't charge, but at least in this case D4 and D5 owners can use the newer versions.
The timeline - in March 2017 - reveals Nikon future proofed the ENEL18b for PD charging, to standards finalized the previous year

https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000044854&configured=1&lang=en_GB

I can still remeber times when in a drawer I had like 5-6 different chargers with 'soldered' cable and different plug on each one. Along new batteires (walkman,cd player, cellphone). That was a mess. If it was micro-USB I would be pissed, as that standard was a mechanical failure. USB-C is solid, convinient and can charge stuff up to 100W (or so?). This is one of topics where I find bureaucracy actually beneficial.

Perhaps, USB C PD will have a fairly long life in the electronics consumer industry. Bottom line it has many benefits, as you say. The power loading has been increased to 240W (this site has all the details of the USB specs since its inception.

USB Charger (USB Power Delivery) | USB-IF

www.usb.org

As a side note: I also kitesurf, pretty much all kiters are angry that there is no color coding standard on kitesurfing bars, every company has different valve and pump adapters have to be used, bar connectors have different set ups (pigails/knots), even some companies use non standard bindings spacing and screws standard ... All kiters wish for an agreemend in the industry ... but for over 20 years there has been none.

Sounds like solar panels... different manufactures use a mishmash of connectors, various versions of Anderson plugs, XT60, MC4 etc.... infuriating

 

[fcotterill]

There are distinct differences between capabilities of USB C cables, because far too many on the market do not support the USB-PD specs :

 

[Geoff_G]

There are distinct differences between capabilities of USB C cables, because far too many on the market do not support the USB-PD specs :

View attachment 72792

This is a mess to be sure. My one cable solution is a Thunderbolt 4 cable which meets all of the specs for power and fast data.
(I also have some generic charge cables good to 240w which are cheaper and longer than TB4 cables but don't support fast data)

 

[Anjin San]

Hi Anjin

There is far more going on with this PD USB-C regulation, the No. 1 reason is to reduce the amount of e-waste. Simply put, whereas 10 years ago, most EU countries and the United States of America simply dumped the "recycled waste" onto China & Asian countries, China has stopped accepting any shipment of "recycling materials", and the Philippines followed suit since then.

By setting a universal charging standard, the amount of plastic particles should be reduced by 15% (?) going into the trash.

The only loser is Apple Inc., which made a handsome $45B profit on lightening cable sales alone from 2012 to 2022.

Is this the best solution for the camera charging? No, but it's certainly better.

Oliver

The EU claims it’s going to reduce e waste…but it means a lot of chargers are going to be tossed and then replaced with new ones requiring manufacture and all the carbon impacts of that production. I’m sure the EU can point to ‘studies’ to prove their point…but studies are easy when you know the conclusion head of time. I haven’t and won’t research the studies they use or paid for…but we have all seen how statistics and studies are manipulated all the time to get a preferred answer. Every contentious question today has studies and settled science presented by both sides and how much validity any of them have is unknown. Me…chargers are chargers…and while having only 1 kind of cable is a help it makes zippo difference to me really.

 

[hrv]

And here is me thinking this is a photography forum

Anyhow, I think that most of us already have many USB-C devices and a few USB-C PD chargers. My MacBook, Z9's, Tablet, Phone, etc.
So from that perspective, it is simply speeding up an inevitable process. Currently I find it very disappointing when I purchase a device to find out it has an older connector like micro-USB or even USB-A.

The amount of cables I can get rid of when I can switch over completely is a welcome change.

 

[John Navitsky]

while i agree there is the potential (and likely) negative effects down the road, i for one, am looking forward to ditching lighting (and micro usb and mini usb) and it was pretty clear apple wasn't going to do that on it's own because it preferred to have a vendor lock-in.

 

[fcotterill]

The USB arena is certainly a mess of Unapplied Standards, unlabeled cables especially.

Thank You EU and USB Standards Committee | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

Do you know what your USB cables are doing?

bythom.com

 

[Vincent_VdB]

As an electrician I can only applaud the USB-C standard and the PD that it offers. Not more bound by the 5VDC seen in other USB ports are opening so many opportunities.
If it will be the current USB-C or the USB-D (made that up as the next USB standard) I do not know but we will see in the near future more USB sockets in both an office environment and at home. We might see USB-C powering a TV for instance and will that TV be networked, the same for the satellite or cable decoder, ...
The EU doesn't claim that older devices such as Nikon DSLRs must have now the USB-C standard as those bodies were developed before there was talk of USB-C.
I read the claim that it is to save money so companies not need to ship an adapter. Well, that is the whole point, having a pile of chargers that were sold to use and in the end not get used. Apple with their iPhone 13 Pro that has the Lightning adapter did not ship a charger so this has nothing to do with the USB-C standard.