Video settings...

[Garfield]

Thanks. So what File Type do you use? And what do you use for post processing?

I use H265 10-bit for everything. (I've played with various RAW formats but it's way overkill for my social media needs and file sizes are insanely large.) Nikon's H265 files are small and clean which essentially eliminates the need to apply noise reduction is post. I try to shoot everything at 4k60p for the oversampling (great IQ), which supports a 2x slow-mo in post but also doesn't look wonky if you choose not to slow the footage down. Just set the SS to 1/120s and Bob's you uncle! Unless you're shooting f2.8 wide open in bright sun, you shouldn't need an ND filter. I strongly recommend monitoring exposure using the waveform monitor to guard against clipping highlights or shadows -- exposure is adjusted by changing aperture (I shoot manual). I let ISO float up to 6400.

120p works great for BIF and fast action, but I only use it when I know that I want to shoot slow motion since the IQ isn't oversampled and outputting 120p on a 30p timeline without slow-mo can look choppy. Again, I find shooting 60p a good compromise.

As for an NLE, I've used FCP which I really liked, but even it requires a certain amount of dedication to learn properly so I decided to switch to Davinci Resolve, partly because I only want to learn once and partly because DR is constantly being updated where as I'm not confident of Apple's future plans for FCP.

 

[Nimi]

@Butlerkid

You are witnessing stylistic differences among the few of us that replied, and since there is "no right answer," just pick one and experiment. The cameras and 3 viable editors are SO good, you can rely on the latitude and refine it as you shoot more and develop your own preferences.

With all that said, where I see things go terribly and irreversibly wrong is shutter angle so I never ever shoot anything except 180.

 

[Butlerkid]

@Nimi Why do you recommend SDR over Nlog?

If I use 120 fps, will playback look "normal" on most computer screens? Will I be able to slow down only certain parts of the clip if I want?

If shooting SDR I can adjust exposure using ISO just like in stills. Correct?

If shoot Nlog, I should try to keep ISO at 800 and adjust aperture to adjust exposure. Correct?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As of now, this is where I'm at:

H265 10 bit 120p Nlog Size 3840x2160, 120p
Shutter speed 1/250
Aperture f8 can vary depending on exposure
ISO starting at 800 -

AF-C Wide small with bird detection focus mode

Lenses: either the 100-400 or the 400 f4.5 with or without 1.4 tele. And maybe the 600mm TC....

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Karen thanks for asking these questions. To those responding, I am always befuddled when I use AF-F - Auto Area AF. How do I know where the focus point is and if it’s what I want. What if it’s not? What other choices should be considered for focus?

 

[Garfield]

Karen thanks for asking these questions. To those responding, I am always befuddled when I use AF-F - Auto Area AF. How do I know where the focus point is and if it’s what I want. What if it’s not? What other choices should be considered for focus?

FWIW even for video I never use AF-F, only AF-C assigned to BBF. Nikon's latest AF technology is their best ever but it's far from perfect and I long ago learned (when shooting Sony!) to rely on AF-C for video as well. I set the appropriate AF mode for the situation (like Steve Perry recommends I've assigned the AF-cycle function to the Video record button for quick AF switching), but the AF only engages when I'm pressing BBF. Releasing the BBF stops the AF from "hunting" which is essential when the subject is not moving but is in a messy environment -- which is most of the time it seems. A hunting autofocus system may cost you a few still shots but it will render a video clip worthless so it's essential to get as much control over the AF system as possible, and this is my solution.

Here's a quick example of a short BIF video captured using this technique. For most clips I had my thumb squarely mashed on the BBF to engage the AF, but when the Harrier dropped into the weeds (1:50) I instantly released the BBF to lock focus. (I didn't always get it right but you get the idea...).

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

FWIW even for video I never use AF-F, only AF-C assigned to BBF. Nikon's latest AF technology is their best ever but it's far from perfect and I long ago learned (when shooting Sony!) to rely on AF-C for video as well. I set the appropriate AF mode for the situation (like Steve Perry recommends I've assigned the AF-cycle function to the Video record button for quick AF switching), but the AF only engages when I'm pressing BBF. Releasing the BBF stops the AF from "hunting" which is essential when the subject is not moving but is in a messy environment -- which is most of the time it seems. A hunting autofocus system may cost you a few still shots but it will render a video clip worthless so it's essential to get as much control over the AF system as possible, and this is my solution.

So you use the shutter to start and stop the video? What do you use to turn blinkes on and off?

 

[Gene_Hughes]

Are you suggesting I go from 800 directly to 4000 ISO if scene is dimly lit?

Yes. It's the same as going from 100 to 500 iso in stills mode.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Karen, don’t you think AF-Small will cause you to be search for your subject more potentially making the video more jittery?

 

[Butlerkid]

So you use the shutter to start and stop the video? What do you use to turn blinkes on and off?

In video mode, the "i" menu is unique to video.....so you could have blinkies there, I think? Same with Subject recognition, etc

 

[Butlerkid]

Karen, don’t you think AF-Small will cause you to be search for your subject more potentially making the video more jittery?

It depends on if the subject is moving....... I wouldn't even try video for BIF......... If Wide Sm was not appropriate for the subject and situation, I would change for focus mode, just like I do in stills.

 

[Garfield]

So you use the shutter to start and stop the video? What do you use to turn blinkes on and off?

Yes, I just use the shutter. Sorry, not sure what you mean by blinkies?

 

[Gene_Hughes]

Yes, I just use the shutter. Sorry, not sure what you mean by blinkies?

I believe she means zebras.

 

[Garfield]

I believe she means zebras.

Ah, right. Zebras are essential IMO -- mine are on all the time, as is the waveform monitor. Gotta constantly check exposure since video (especially H.264/265) isn't forgiving if you blow the exposure.

 

[Gene_Hughes]

FWIW, this is shot handheld on a Z9 W / 400 4.5 at 10 bit SDR 3840x2160 Flat profile, 120p SS 1/250, AFF, Auto Area subject tracking. Processed in H265 @30FS.
YT compression does its usual damage. Mixed lighting was a pain of course.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Those using the Flat profile is that what you use for stills as well or is this a video preference. I have been using Standard for stills even though I process RAW with a Linear profile. Haven’t really thought about this aspect.

 

[Garfield]

Those using the Flat profile is that what you use for stills as well or is this a video preference. I have been using Standard for stills even though I process RAW with a Linear profile. Haven’t really thought about this aspect.

If you shoot raw format for stills the profile of choice has no effect on the raw image, but it does affect JPG stills and H264/265 video because they are compressed formats, not raw. (Even NRaw isn't really raw -- it's just less compressed.) Anyway, for jpg stills and H264/265 video the profile of choice becomes "baked in" to the image, at least to a degree. But the flat profile is pretty mild -- all it does is pull the highlights down and boost the shadows ever so slightly to help protect the DR of the recorded scene. In comparison, NLog is a much more powerful form of a "flat" profile, but it requires more work "grading" the footage to get the desired look.

 

[Nimi]

@Nimi Why do you recommend SDR over Nlog?

If I use 120 fps, will playback look "normal" on most computer screens? Will I be able to slow down only certain parts of the clip if I want?

If shooting SDR I can adjust exposure using ISO just like in stills. Correct?

If shoot Nlog, I should try to keep ISO at 800 and adjust aperture to adjust exposure. Correct?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As of now, this is where I'm at:

H265 10 bit 120p Nlog Size 3840x2160, 120p
Shutter speed 1/250
Aperture f8 can vary depending on exposure
ISO starting at 800 -

AF-C Wide small with bird detection focus mode

Lenses: either the 100-400 or the 400 f4.5 with or without 1.4 tele. And maybe the 600mm TC....

1. Nlog vs SDR: simplicity and Nlog might be an overkill in daylight. With that said, I only shoot Log (S or N depanding on camera), in all situations to help me recover shadows.

2. 120fps display. On an Apple playback display, ie QuickTime, it will look normal for a few seconds, then slow down, then speed up again. That's a QuickTime feature, no need to open a ticket with Apple. In an editor, it will display normal until you change the speed of the clip. So for example in PP, you right click the clip on the timeline, scroll down to Speed, dictate the fraction of 120, for example 50% for 60fps or 20% for 24fps for more extreme slo-motion.

3. ISO: you can vary the ISO from native at the expense of reduced dynamic range and exposure latitude and increased shadow noise. It may not matter on the Z8 if you nail exposure. You're getting different opinions here, probably all valid depending on the situation (my shooting style is dark, so I am sensitive to shadow noise and ability to produce non-muddy blacks). Just like I shoot stills only at 64, I work hard to shoot Nlog or Slog at native and get the exposure right.

I don't shoot wildlife, let alone BIF, and rarely above 200mm, so can't be much help on those questions.

 

[Nimi]

If you shoot raw format for stills the profile of choice has no effect on the raw image, but it does affect JPG stills and H264/265 video because they are compressed formats, not raw. (Even NRaw isn't really raw -- it's just less compressed.) Anyway, for jpg stills and H264/265 video the profile of choice becomes "baked in" to the image, at least to a degree. But the flat profile is pretty mild -- all it does is pull the highlights down and boost the shadows ever so slightly to help protect the DR of the recorded scene. In comparison, NLog is a much more powerful form of a "flat" profile, but it requires more work "grading" the footage to get the desired look.

Well said. It might be an overkill for a 30 second Insta reel, but I find Nlog to be extremely pliable and easy to work with, and with just three sliders I can make the necessary corrections in 5 seconds. It also has a higher exposure latitude in case I screw up metering.

 

[MotoPixel]

Well said. It might be an overkill for a 30 second Insta reel, but I find Nlog to be extremely pliable and easy to work with, and with just three sliders I can make the necessary corrections in 5 seconds. It also has a higher exposure latitude in case I screw up metering.

I think this is a great project for @Steve or Rose...a step by step guide to shooting video in NRaw, NLog and HLG with Nikon MILC's...Z9, Z8, Zf, etc. in Resolve and Premier. Like they don't have enough to keep up with.

There are a lot of resources out there, but many rip through things either far too fast or get so deep in the weeds that it overwhelms anyone trying to learn the basics. People new to video editing often struggle the most with how to deal with different file formats, media management, color management, project settings...and even the most basic aspects of working with clips on a timeline, inserts, effects, trimming and the different ways you interact with your clips to adjust lengths and timing.

I've been through it, as you and others have and while I understood it going way back to editing with 3/4" machines and AVID NLE's, it's a lot to catch up on, especially with RAW, Log and HDR. And there is a LOT of misinformation out there that seems to be focused towards those that are Hollywood wannabees and less focused on those that are wanting to document the real world that doesn't require "looks" or "LUTs". I haven't used a look or LUT in ages, not for what I'm doing...DaVinci manages getting from NRAW or NLog or HLG to my initial color grade t entirely automatically, once you set up some preset for different project and clip types. Like you said, you can tweak the basic grade in a matter of seconds and apply to all your similar clips in a few clicks. I'm sure Premier, FCP and others can do the same, though not with NRaw.

Like you, I'm willing to help those starting down this path avoid some of the pitfalls I had to navigate...it was a minefield! lol

Cheers!

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

3. ISO: you can vary the ISO from native at the expense of reduced dynamic range and exposure latitude and increased shadow noise. It may not matter on the Z8 if you nail exposure. You're getting different opinions here, probably all valid depending on the situation (my shooting style is dark, so I am sensitive to shadow noise and ability to produce non-muddy blacks). Just like I shoot stills only at 64, I work hard to shoot Nlog or Slog at native and get the exposure right.

Just to make sure I understand - this references shooting Nlog and if she decides to shoot SDR you use ISO as you might normally do for stills with Auto ISO. @Garfield suggested up to 6400.

@Nimi seems to be suggesting that shooting NLOG outside might be overkill for someone starting out. If you are going to use NLog you have to go with DaVinci but the free version is probably fine for starters. Nlog also means more card space and a warmer camera.

Karen, in addition to the card testing, you might consider the discussion of ND filters (whether variable or not) by considering your normal approach to shooting outside. You may not be able to shoot wide open as you might otherwise wish too with the shutter speed fixed so low 250 or 125 maybe. Test those conditions too outdoors before you go.

 

[Nimi]

Just to make sure I understand - this references shooting Nlog and if she decides to shoot SDR you use ISO as you might normally do for stills with Auto ISO. @Garfield suggested up to 6400.

@Nimi seems to be suggesting that shooting NLOG outside might be overkill for someone starting out. If you are going to use NLog you have to go with DaVinci but the free version is probably fine for starters. Nlog also means more card space and a warmer camera.

Karen, in addition to the card testing, you might consider the discussion of ND filters (whether variable or not) by considering your normal approach to shooting outside. You may not be able to shoot wide open as you might otherwise wish too with the shutter speed fixed so low 250 or 125 maybe. Test those conditions too outdoors before you go.

I feel I have to qualify my remarks again: There is very little testing published on the Z8/Z9 video capabilities, I am only aware of Gerald Undone and CineD, so opinions and techniques will vary. I've settled on a certain workflow and settings that produces the best video footage for me.

Re ISO: Like in still photography, the dynamic range and exposure latitude as well as noise, would degrade as you move away from the lower of the native IS0 settings. Nikon (and the rest of the manufacturers) adds a second "clean" ISO point at a higher point and some reviewers claim an invariance region between them. So noise will be controlled, but dynamic will suffer. Which may not make any difference depending on what you are shooting. Some (me) are obsessed with dynamic range, some don't care.

There is no corollary to Log in stills. In video, you have various profiles, akin to JPEG, you got RAW, which is like Raw and you got Log which is somewhere in between. As it stands now, RAW is impractical because of how much memory it takes, how unwieldy it is to edit and how noisy it is. Yes, it has the widest dynamic range and 12 bit color, but not many people shoot it because it will bring down most computers and it isn't supported by all editors. Nlog gives you the same dynamic range, 10 bit, with a manageable file that can be edited on all three editors. That's all I shoot, and as mentioned before, always at native ISO. For the most part, my aperture is dictated by the scene and what depth of field I am looking for, so my exposure is set using NDs.

 

[MotoPixel]

Ditto on the Z8/Z9 having little detailed information about shooting video...especially when it comes to shooting in NRaw, HLG or NLog.

Let me clarify a little with regards to NRaw and NLog. NRaw is akin to RAW in the stills world, but it's not viewable until it's debayered by an editing program...there is no embedded viewable file as with RAW stills. The files are huge...a 1TB memory card will hold 22 minutes of video at 8K/60p at the "Normal" quality setting. If shooting NRaw, there are two "tone modes" available, SDR and NLog. These tone modes actually define two things, a gamma curve and color space, though they don't actually bake them into the RAW data...only the file metadata to tell the editing program what to do in terms of debayering the image data to a format that the editing program is expecting.

Selecting one or the other of these slightly changes the exposure calculations the camera uses and also defines a different color space...BT.709 for SDR and BT.2020 for NLog...somewhat akin to the difference between sRGB and Adobe1998 for stills. BT.2020 being a very wide gamut and BT.709 (a little wider than sRGB) is the gamut used for the existing HD video standard. You should choose SDR if you want the easiest, though less flexible, workflow to end up with a video playable on just about anything. Choose NLog if you're wanting the most flexibility and IQ at the expense of simplicity...and this is the mode you would choose if final output will include HDR of some flavor.

Then there is HLG...which stands for Hybrid Log Gamma...it's an HDR video format that was designed to achieve a way to broadcast a signal that would work for both SDR and HDR displays and avoid having to broadcast two different streams. I won't go into all the details here, but Nikon does offer that as an HDR tone mode when shooting H.265, 10-bit video and the results are quite good for casual usage. It's like shooting jpgs in stills...NR, lens corrections, etc. are baked into the file and technically, the file can be played back to any HDR device and look pretty good...at least to the extent you got your exposure and WB right.

I hope this helps somewhat...it's taken a lot of digging over the last few years to get up to speed with this...as Nimi said, it's a challenge, partly due to the fact that Nikon has never registered in the video world until the Z9 hit the market. Video has been dominated by Sony, Panasonic, Canon, etc., but given the RED acquisition, we have some exciting times ahead.

 

[Nimi]

Ditto on the Z8/Z9 having little detailed information about shooting video...especially when it comes to shooting in NRaw, HLG or NLog.

Let me clarify a little with regards to NRaw and NLog. NRaw is akin to RAW in the stills world, but it's not viewable until it's debayered by an editing program...there is no embedded viewable file as with RAW stills. The files are huge...a 1TB memory card will hold 22 minutes of video at 8K/60p at the "Normal" quality setting. If shooting NRaw, there are two "tone modes" available, SDR and NLog. These tone modes actually define two things, a gamma curve and color space, though they don't actually bake them into the RAW data...only the file metadata to tell the editing program what to do in terms of debayering the image data to a format that the editing program is expecting.

Selecting one or the other of these slightly changes the exposure calculations the camera uses and also defines a different color space...BT.709 for SDR and BT.2020 for NLog...somewhat akin to the difference between sRGB and Adobe1998 for stills. BT.2020 being a very wide gamut and BT.709 (a little wider than sRGB) is the gamut used for the existing HD video standard. You should choose SDR if you want the easiest, though less flexible, workflow to end up with a video playable on just about anything. Choose NLog if you're wanting the most flexibility and IQ at the expense of simplicity...and this is the mode you would choose if final output will include HDR of some flavor.

Then there is HLG...which stands for Hybrid Log Gamma...it's an HDR video format that was designed to achieve a way to broadcast a signal that would work for both SDR and HDR displays and avoid having to broadcast two different streams. I won't go into all the details here, but Nikon does offer that as an HDR tone mode when shooting H.265, 10-bit video and the results are quite good for casual usage. It's like shooting jpgs in stills...NR, lens corrections, etc. are baked into the file and technically, the file can be played back to any HDR device and look pretty good...at least to the extent you got your exposure and WB right.

I hope this helps somewhat...it's taken a lot of digging over the last few years to get up to speed with this...as Nimi said, it's a challenge, partly due to the fact that Nikon has never registered in the video world until the Z9 hit the market. Video has been dominated by Sony, Panasonic, Canon, etc., but given the RED acquisition, we have some exciting times ahead.

My understanding is that Nikon will be dropping Nraw as we know it and install REDCODE in its place. Which would be great...

Also, talking to the FilmConvert people, they recommend using the Rec2020 space for straight-up Nlog, claiming that the 709 lut provided by Nikon is "garbage" (in New Zeland accent, no less).

 

[MotoPixel]

I'll be curious to see how that all plays out...the Tico Raw implementation of compressing the Raw video and still files is, in my understanding, handled by hardware in the Expeed 7 processor. Adding REDCODE or replacing the current NRaw methodology might require a new processor design...at least to be highly optimized in hardware. My understanding is that the Expeed 7 is a multi-core ARM design at it's heart, but with specialized subsections, so it's hard to say what the options might be. From some comments made by the RED president, he believes there is substantial additional potential in the Expeed 7.

On the rare occasions I've fooled around with the Nikon LUT, I was less than pleased with it, so I never use it. Whatever DVR is doing with its automatic color management, looks great without any intervention on my part. I can't speak to how other NLE's are processing NLog clips. When I first got my Z9 and shot some log footage it was a nightmare to figure out that I didn't need to use the LUT...DVR was applying it automatically and I'd end up with garish, oversaturated video because it was applied twice! That's a very common problem and understanding how color management works is key aspect to get a handle on early. The number one thing to understand about a LUT is that you have to feed it image data with the color space and gamma that it is designed for...if you don't, all bets are off.

Karen, sorry about hijacking your thread...maybe we should start a new one somewhere...

 

[Butlerkid]

I'll be curious to see how that all plays out...the Tico Raw implementation of compressing the Raw video and still files is, in my understanding, handled by hardware in the Expeed 7 processor. Adding REDCODE or replacing the current NRaw methodology might require a new processor design...at least to be highly optimized in hardware. My understanding is that the Expeed 7 is a multi-core ARM design at it's heart, but with specialized subsections, so it's hard to say what the options might be. From some comments made by the RED president, he believes there is substantial additional potential in the Expeed 7.

On the rare occasions I've fooled around with the Nikon LUT, I was less than pleased with it, so I never use it. Whatever DVR is doing with its automatic color management, looks great without any intervention on my part. I can't speak to how other NLE's are processing NLog clips. When I first got my Z9 and shot some log footage it was a nightmare to figure out that I didn't need to use the LUT...DVR was applying it automatically and I'd end up with garish, oversaturated video because it was applied twice! That's a very common problem and understanding how color management works is key aspect to get a handle on early. The number one thing to understand about a LUT is that you have to feed it image data with the color space and gamma that it is designed for...if you don't, all bets are off.

Karen, sorry about hijacking your thread...maybe we should start a new one somewhere...

I so appreciate all the input from you, Nimi, Garfield, Gene and Ricardo. And maybe having all this information in this one thread will help other newbies who are just dipping a toe into video.

Since I've always shot raw in manual mode, I just assumed the Nlog would be better. Perhaps my end goal should determine SDR vs Nlog....

My goal is to get some short clips of wildlife that I can put together with music, and maybe narration, and make a 2-3 minute video.