Which would you pick for birds

[Ken Miracle]

Amazing insight into the Dipper shot, testament to the A1 and your skills, perfect example where frame rate was crucial. Watching tracking videos of the A1 are quite eye opening!

The 800 focal length is certainly on the long end, even with full frame, ignoring absolute image quality and micro contrast the 200-600 flexibility is a big attraction, when compared to any of the primes. There are times when a barn owl is coming towards me and you could pull back to 80 let alone 200mm, so yes, careful consideration really. Suspect the 800mm could easily fall into the specialist use category, where as something in the 400-600mm range is potentially more useful on a regular basis.

A9 series seems to work well with the 1.4 and 200-600, I've seen some cracking shots from A9 and A1 with that combo, but, conditions need to be right as you point out. Feel free to post as many images as you like, your skill behind the camera and with post processing are more than welcome.

As I have mentioned I am primarily a bird ID specialist and as I have mentioned in other posts the 800mm is indeed a bit of a specialist lens and it fits my specialty to a T. There are situation I prefer my Z100-400 and I still pine for my old 150-600's

 

[Snapquacky]

As I have mentioned I am primarily a bird ID specialist and as I have mentioned in other posts the 800mm is indeed a bit of a specialist camera and it fits my specialty to a T. There are situation I prefer my Z100-400 and I still pine for my old 150-600's

Thanks Ken, I can see how the 800mm works for you, money no object I would take them all but I do need to be sensible to some degree, being able to try them all for extended testing would be ideal. A great deal to think about with such incredible options before us, this time last year most could only dream of an 800mm lens, now Nikon offer one for $6000 which can be hand held! not that it isn't a large sum of money for most, but, still somewhat of a good deal.

 

[Andrew Lamberson]

IF the 800 PF becomes widely available by December I will get one for sure to use of my Z6II for Snowy Owls in January. With the 1.4 TC 1200mm seems very attractive. One good thing about really cold weather (it will probably be somewhere between 0 to -30 at the Sax-Zim Bog) is that there won't be any thermal distortion in the air!.

Seems to me if you are taking pictures of birds you won't be using it for Birds in Flight (BIF) !

IF it becomes available!

 

[Ken Miracle]

IF the 800 PF becomes widely available by December I will get one for sure to use of my Z6II for Snowy Owls in January. With the 1.4 TC 1200mm seems very attractive. One good thing about really cold weather (it will probably be somewhere between 0 to -30 at the Sax-Zim Bog) is that there won't be any thermal distortion in the air!.

Seems to me if you are taking pictures of birds you won't be using it for Birds in Flight (BIF) !

IF it becomes available!

You can get thermal distortion in very cold weather as noted in one of @Steve 's videos ... all it takes is temp. differential with think sun over snow and it can and does happen.

 

[arbitrage]

IF the 800 PF becomes widely available by December I will get one for sure to use of my Z6II for Snowy Owls in January. With the 1.4 TC 1200mm seems very attractive. One good thing about really cold weather (it will probably be somewhere between 0 to -30 at the Sax-Zim Bog) is that there won't be any thermal distortion in the air!.

Seems to me if you are taking pictures of birds you won't be using it for Birds in Flight (BIF) !

IF it becomes available!

Some of the worst atmospheric distortions occur in those types of temps. Be aware.

 

[Calson]

I photographed woodpeckers at a distance of roughly 50 feet and filled the frame with the 800mm with the birds and tree trunk sections. I could not have gotten the shots with a 100-400mm or with a 400mm f/2.8 unless I used a 2x TC on the lens. The 600mm with a TC-14 would have been too heavy for me to hand hold as the extra 3 lbs of weight is most noticeable. The 400mm f/2.8 with a 2x TC also weighs more than the 800mm PF although the 400mm lens does do a great job of lightening ones wallet.

With the 80-400mm and the 500mm PF I found my images improved as I was able to change my position in seconds and go to ground level for many subjects. The 100-400mm with the 500mm PF and the 800mm PF makes a great wildlife travel kit with the combined weight of the three lenses being less than that of the 600mm f/4 VR that I hauled around for years.

What is often overlooked is the advantage of having a 45M or better sensor that allows for greater image enlargement and enables a 500mm focal length lens to provide trhe same relative image pixels as a 600mm lens with a 20-24MP sensor camera. I was glad that Nikon finally produced a top of the line full resolution camera.

It appears that the Z9 has the electronics to provide exceptional autofocus and with two firmware upgrades for the camera as well as for the S lenses it is getting better and better. I never understood why Nikon did not bother to provide similar enhanced performance with the D850 as most of its shortcomings could have been fixed with new firmware code.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

I think the question comes down to how you want to achieve flexibility?

If it is OK to carry multiple lenses into the field and swap them as necessary, I think the multiple lens approach is superior. If not, then I don't think Nikon currently has an appropriate zoom and the Sony A1/200-600 wins hands down.

I for one, believe that 800mm effective FF focal length is sometimes necessary. Others seemed to agree as a professional I took a trip with had a 2x TC attached to his Sony A1/200-600 all the time.

Tom

 

[Alistair]

Not interested in brand bashing, I am interested in best image quality. Based on current availability and for a relatively matched budget, with some future proofing in mind, which would you choose.

Nikon Z6/Z6II + 800PF or Sony A1 + 200-600G, these work out roughly the same cost, ie about $6500-7500 in my area. I am light challenged in the UK so f6.3 will mean relying on VR and IBIS.

I am likely going to pre-order an 800PF regardless and I realise the focus tracking on the two cameras above isn't ideally matched, but, assume still subjects rather than birds in flight. Interested to get some thoughts from those who have used or are using both systems, bit early for the 800PF feedback I know. My usual theory is to spend money on glass, less so on the camera, but I would certainly like to play with a stacked sensor I could stretch to a Z9 and 800PF but interested to see what you think on comparatively priced packages, which end up with a 'similar' amount of pixels on the bird, or somewhere near.

Once the Nikon 200-600 lands it will be a more even comparison, I like the idea of zooming out if something surprises me! but the 800PF is just so very tempting

IMHO the two options you are considering here are apple to orange. Two more comparable options are A1/200-600 and Z9/400_F4.5/1.4x converter. Not sure where the relative prices sit of these two combinations in your country but choosing between them would be agony! I was shooting landing Gannets with the Nikon combo yesterday in rather dismal light and was pleased with its performance. It was nice to have have F4.5 as the light faded but there genuinely is no optical or AF penalty to adding the 1.4 converter for 560mm F6.3. In fact, the lens is a little sharper and better corrected than my 600/F4. On the other hand the Sony probably has a slightly better sensor (?) and its AF prowess is highly regarded by those who have used it. Mind you, it takes roughly 1/3 of a second for a gannet to complete its landing approach and slam into the ground. Yesterday I photographed this sequence dozens of times getting 6-8 shots of each occurrence at 20FPS. I don't think I had an OOF shot in any of the sequences and the background was messy and crowded with other birds.

I am not sure which combo is the smallest/lightest, probably a wash. My hunch is that Sony will, for the foreseeable, always get the slightly better sensor (they make them all, right?) whilst I do believe Nikon's claims that their Z mount affords them more flexibility in lens design and also a more effective VR system.

Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck with the decision, I don't envy you!