Who’s buying the Sony a1MK2?

[DavidT]

That K80 is a work of art btw!

They sure are! I had a couple of them over the years when I was shooting competitively.

 

[DavidT]

I just think most of the time they're so stressed and trying to keep up that it just slips thru the cracks

Most likely and the losses aren’t enough for leadership to hold people accountable.

 

[BlackRockArt]

Well better af is highly subjective. No matter the brand knowing how to set up the af system especially on a Sony that gives you so much customization is important. It’s also important to use like lenses and at the exact same time. Sorry some reviewer or YouTuber who get minutes to a couple days with an advanced camera like this don’t invest the time nor are typically in situations that truly highlight a cameras af system and have others with same glass at the same moment. Jan over is Australia is about the only one who really spends a lot of time with all 3 systems but even he hasn’t had an a1mk2 long enough to really try out different af settings in different situations. None of these cameras are a set it and forget it af system if you truly want the best they can do.

Precapture Canon didn’t give you the options Sony does. Canon takes a special battery no one can find, Canon still has rolling shutter issues at times, Canon nor Nikon are as customizable as Sony. Not even close on that one! Sony is still lighter and the new a1 and a9III are subjectively the most comfortable cameras in the hand ever made. I’ve shot Canon and Nikon since the 80’s and by far my a9III is the best ergonomically.

Anyone saying best is very subjective. Even my comments are but I own that and while some tech gaps have been shortened the a1 in either version still has specs and capabilities no one else has. Could that change? Sure but Sony will continue to evolve. Who else has a global shutter in a mirrorless camera?

While R5 mk II design improved in the AF department, there are still quite a few "features" , dare I say, what!?$# Every time I wanted to love Kwanon again, it managed to shout "gotcha" with a condescending sneer. Maybe Kwanon will get it right in the 3rd iteration? I surely hope so.

Not to mention the stubborn lock down on the 3rd part lense, that's still the biggest block for many faithful Kwanon photographers.

Going off on a tangent, will the old guards switch brands? Probably no, on the other hand, new generations are not buying "cameras" . Unless there's a paradigm shift in the camera industry, the big four will lose more market share to the likes of DJI, Mi, Insta360...

Oliver

 

[FB101]

How can you say it's "too expensive"? It's priced the same as the A1 but yet gives you much more camera. And of course there are people out there who don't have an A1 but may be looking to step up to the flagship body so for them it's a brand new experience.

This is only true if you consider yourself captive of a brand, in which case there is no competition and no progress. Over the years I have used every brand, and still cross shop if it makes sense. And in that context the $2000 extra for the A1mk2 over the R5mk2 does bring some advantages but not a 40% premium worth. So yes, overpriced. not overpriced enough to justify changing system, but overpriced in absolute vs competitive options.

 

[daran]

I don’t think the A1 is outperforming the R5ii though nor any other Sony offering in that price range. Both shoot 30 FPS raw Canon has precapture RAW and better AF than the A1 in the R5ii currently.

Uh, there is a important distinction between AF (moving the lens quickly to minimize the PDAF error) and tracking (image analysis to figure out where on the sensor PDAF needs to be minimal aka in focus). Canon has bee n very good at image analysis for tracking but somewhat beaten on AF. Nikon similar but even more extreme. When Fro did his infamous run towards the camera, Nikon tracked fine but almost consistently missed focus as AF was too slow (at least partially due to that particular lenses AF motors). There is also a question of how much tracking (if even enabled) responds to PDAF and not only to image analysis. So no, there is so far no indication whatsoever that the R5 AF is even keeping up with the A1, even if image tracking looks to be better. As it has already been on the R5m1

There’s a very high probability Nikon will top the A1ii within a year or two as the Z9 is last in the refresh cycle.

Nikons Z9 seems to have got the exact same sensor tech level from Sony Semiconductor as the Sony A1 did, just a tad later. A Z9II might move to the next sensor tech, even when Sony did not. But how you turn that into a "very high probability" is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Both are sourcing their sensors from the very same company designing them.

 

[daran]

This is only true if you consider yourself captive of a brand, in which case there is no competition and no progress. Over the years I have used every brand, and still cross shop if it makes sense. And in that context the $2000 extra for the A1mk2 over the R5mk2 does bring some advantages but not a 40% premium worth. So yes, overpriced.

Being overpriced is an overrated concept. Some will consider all FF bodies overpriced as they can get enough from APS-C or mFT or whatever. Others drop 15K on some body I would not even want to shoot with a fixed lens that I could not get much use out of. Thing is that the A1m2 is the best body only for certain subject and scenario types, but does beat the R5m2 in that section. So for anyone shooting that the advantages may be worth the premium. Everyone else may think differently. I would certainly not recommend either camera to my niece shooting landscapes and young children.

 

[Lee R]

Uh, there is a important distinction between AF (moving the lens quickly to minimize the PDAF error) and tracking (image analysis to figure out where on the sensor PDAF needs to be minimal aka in focus). Canon has bee n very good at image analysis for tracking but somewhat beaten on AF. Nikon similar but even more extreme. When Fro did his infamous run towards the camera, Nikon tracked fine but almost consistently missed focus as AF was too slow (at least partially due to that particular lenses AF motors). There is also a question of how much tracking (if even enabled) responds to PDAF and not only to image analysis. So no, there is so far no indication whatsoever that the R5 AF is even keeping up with the A1, even if image tracking looks to be better. As it has already been on the R5m1

Nikons Z9 seems to have got the exact same sensor tech level from Sony Semiconductor as the Sony A1 did, just a tad later. A Z9II might move to the next sensor tech, even when Sony did not. But how you turn that into a "very high probability" is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Both are sourcing their sensors from the very same company designing them.

I honestly don't care what fro claims he seems highly sponsored. With the amount some of these guys make on affiliate links and marketing kick backs it's tough to trust anything they say.

Jan Wagner and Wild Alaska I do trust. Jan pointed out some issues he found with the A12 vs R5ii and Wild Alaska has been very objective in his time with the A1 vs the R5ii and Z9. They all seem to have some things they're stronger and weaker at but I wouldn't claim one as hands down better across the board at this point for autofocus/tracking.

Steve will also have time on both and he was very objective with his Z9/A1 comparison so I trust what he has to say with the other two I mentioned.

Nikon has every opportunity to take the lead with the Z92 and the A12 was a pretty soft refresh for them to surpass. Balls in Nikons court now to show us if they can do that or not. I doubt they've been wasting time since the Z9's launch not working on beating 30 FPS of the A1 lineup. I also suspect we didn't just see Sony's real effort but a business decision to give a little more since they see they have the lead and save the rest for later. They know just adding a AF bump and pre-capture will sell a bunch and hold the rest so the others can't see what cards they have.

 

[daran]

I honestly don't care what fro claims he seems highly sponsored. With the amount some of these guys make on affiliate links and marketing kick backs it's tough to trust anything they say.

I'm not talking about what he claimed, but what he demonstrated. He showed the BTS and made the images available. His interpretation was somewhat off, but is entirely beside the point.

Jan Wagner and Wild Alaska I do trust. Jan pointed out some issues he found with the A12 vs R5ii

Yes, seen it. Compatible with what I said.

and Wild Alaska has been very objective in his time with the A1 vs the R5ii and Z9. They all seem to have some things they're stronger and weaker at but I wouldn't claim one as hands down better across the board at this point for autofocus/tracking.

Well, I did not say better across the board. So far the A1m1 has been lagging in video, somewhat in tracking, not in AF.

Steve will also have time on both and he was very objective with his Z9/A1 comparison so I trust what he has to say with the other two I mentioned.

He hasn't done his A1II video. You could look up his various comments on AF reliability of the A1m1 vs e.g. Z9 and while you may have to dig a bit, you'll find he prefers the A1 AF. Not by much, though.

Nikon has every opportunity to take the lead with the Z92 and the A12 was a pretty soft refresh for them to surpass. Balls in Nikons court now to show us if they can do that or not.

The current AF issues of the Z9 compared to the A1I have nothing to do with the sensor. The Z9 is 10% faster to read and process (since same tech with 10% less pixels). So the Z9 "should" be able to react 10% more quickly and hence reliably. But it is not. Similarly the A1m2 could have read the reused sensor somewhat faster in some modes than they choose to implement. Again, the bottleneck does not seem to be the sensor. All this leads me to doubt that the Z9II will make a big jump ahead. Maybe it finally draws even.

Anyway, time will tell. The Z8II/Z9II when they drop would not match my lenses anyway:-D

 

[Lee R]

I'm not talking about what he claimed, but what he demonstrated. He showed the BTS and made the images available. His interpretation was somewhat off, but is entirely beside the point.

Yes, seen it. Compatible with what I said.

Well, I did not say better across the board. So far the A1m1 has been lagging in video, somewhat in tracking, not in AF.

He hasn't done his A1II video. You could look up his various comments on AF reliability of the A1m1 vs e.g. Z9 and while you may have to dig a bit, you'll find he prefers the A1 AF. Not by much, though.

The current AF issues of the Z9 compared to the A1I have nothing to do with the sensor. The Z9 is 10% faster to read and process (since same tech with 10% less pixels). So the Z9 "should" be able to react 10% more quickly and hence reliably. But it is not. Similarly the A1m2 could have read the reused sensor somewhat faster in some modes than they choose to implement. Again, the bottleneck does not seem to be the sensor. All this leads me to doubt that the Z9II will make a big jump ahead. Maybe it finally draws even.

Anyway, time will tell. The Z8II/Z9II when they drop would not match my lenses anyway:-D

I did see Steve's comparison but that was from Feb 2023 which would have put it on about firmware 3.00. It's had multiple firmware revisions with some major updates to the AF system since then so that comparison is not current. He did call them about even at that point and the system has improved more since then. It's tough to find Firmware 5.0 or 2.0 on the Z8 comparisons with the A1.

 

[DavidT]

I did see Steve's comparison but that was from Feb 2023 which would have put it on about firmware 3.00. It's had multiple firmware revisions with some major updates to the AF system since then so that comparison is not current. He did call them about even at that point and the system has improved more since then. It's tough to find Firmware 5.0 or 2.0 on the Z8 comparisons with the A1.

I guess I’ll call it out. This isn’t a thread about comparing the a1mk2 to everything else out there. This constant debate is old, tired and off topic. We get it you are a Nikon shooter, you don’t see the value in the a1 or any other Sony body. Move on there are plenty of Nikon threads for you to go debate how much you should spend on your camera.

 

[Lee R]

I guess I’ll call it out. This isn’t a thread about comparing the a1mk2 to everything else out there. This constant debate is old, tired and off topic. We get it you are a Nikon shooter, you don’t see the value in the a1 or any other Sony body. Move on there are plenty of Nikon threads for you to go debate how much you should spend on your camera.

I'll leave. I didn't mean to hurt feelings.

 

[robert_in_ca]

They will continue to sell the a1 which is now $1k cheaper. That closes the gap and the a1 is more capable and customizable then any of the cameras you mentioned. If you want to continue to compare lower MP cameras than add the a9II into the mix which smokes all of those in the same MP range you mentioned. The a9II is sold new for $4,498 and used is roughly half of that.
We can continue to do comparisons but unless you are new or leaving DSLR and not wanting to adapt older lenses then all of this discussion over pricing is pointless. You aren’t leaving your brand no matter what Sony announces and I’m not leaving Sony no matter what anyone else announces. Once you become invested there wont be any tech leap that would warrant a loss and the significant investment it would take to replace my gear.

The thing you're not addressing is Sony, like any company, looks to see what the competition is doing from a tech/hardware perspective and pricing. For example, look at the A9iii pricing - great camera and both my LCS (which is a big dealer here in Los Angeles) and my account manager at B&H said sales at Son'y set MSRP were dismissal. That's why units were heavily discounted within 2-3 months of launch. I picked mine up for for 25% off retail price with free overnight shipping. The market pretty much told Sony that their set pricing wasn't good enough vs market demand and competition. Also to say the A1 is more capable is a bit of a stretch vs the R5ii and even Z8... I will say Sony is the second most customizable camera (Olympus is even more so) that I've owned.

Now with that all said - I do love the compactness of my Sony kit over my Nikon Z kit. I just arrived in South Africa last week (first time traveling with the Sony kit) and what a difference it made being able to use my smaller Think Tank roller (A9iii, A7Rv, 300mm, 70-200mm 2.8 GMii, 1.4x TC, 2.0x TC, Leica Q3, etc.).

 

[robert_in_ca]

I'm considering delaying my purchase to into the new year.
Camera only releasing Dec 20th...I wont' be able to receive it from the 22nd onwards so would be risky to have it shipped in that short of a time period.
I'm checking with my dealer if he will cover overnight air courier. Ideally shipping out on the 19th to arrive to me on the 20th which shouldn't break any embargo date for actual delivery.
But if that doesn't work out then I'll delay into January and hopefully be able to get a 5-10% discount once my dealer has them in stock and has fulfilled pre-orders.
I have two friends that also had it pre-ordered. One has cancelled and will purchase into the new year once a discount can be had and he has more interesting subjects to shoot. The other is on the fence if he will go through with the order on release date.
So out of three orders I know about, all three are close to backing out on release date. I wonder how common that will be? My sample could be biased as all three of us stand to save some money if we delay a month or two and all three of us don't have anything too interesting to shoot the next few months.

Albeit it a bit antidotal, I know one person who canceled her pre-order after hearing the official specs. My LCS said they had a few cancelations - but overall the pre-orders were nowhere near what they had for the A1 when it launched.

 

[robert_in_ca]

I'm not talking about what he claimed, but what he demonstrated. He showed the BTS and made the images available. His interpretation was somewhat off, but is entirely beside the point.

Yes, seen it. Compatible with what I said.

Well, I did not say better across the board. So far the A1m1 has been lagging in video, somewhat in tracking, not in AF.

He hasn't done his A1II video. You could look up his various comments on AF reliability of the A1m1 vs e.g. Z9 and while you may have to dig a bit, you'll find he prefers the A1 AF. Not by much, though.

The current AF issues of the Z9 compared to the A1I have nothing to do with the sensor. The Z9 is 10% faster to read and process (since same tech with 10% less pixels). So the Z9 "should" be able to react 10% more quickly and hence reliably. But it is not. Similarly the A1m2 could have read the reused sensor somewhat faster in some modes than they choose to implement. Again, the bottleneck does not seem to be the sensor. All this leads me to doubt that the Z9II will make a big jump ahead. Maybe it finally draws even.

Anyway, time will tell. The Z8II/Z9II when they drop would not match my lenses anyway:-D

The issue with the Z9/Z9 isn't the sensor readout speed as you indicated - the AF issues (having owned both Z9 and Z8 since launch) has more to do with weak subject algorithms (not as good as either Sony or Canon) and system optimization. In time Nikon will get it sorted out when their Expeed 8 processor becomes available.

 

[arbitrage]

Albeit it a bit antidotal, I know one person who canceled her pre-order after hearing the official specs. My LCS said they had a few cancelations - but overall the pre-orders were nowhere near what they had for the A1 when it launched.

Well I'm officially out for now. Will revisit the purchase in January. Both of my friends backed out on the purchase also. I do know one guy who as far as I know is going through with the purchase so I may go take a peak at his camera over the holidays as I will be in his city.

My friends and I were chatting and just none of us have any excitement for this camera so we aren't in a rush. We are all pretty hardcore into Sony. We all own 300GM and 600GM and one of my friends also owns 400GM. All of us shoot A1. That isn't to say we won't all own it one day. I think all 3 of us will buy it in the new year at some point. For me I'll be watching the competition closely for rumours as I'm always willing to hop brands if they excite me more.

 

[sh1209]

Well I'm officially out for now. Will revisit the purchase in January. Both of my friends backed out on the purchase also. I do know one guy who as far as I know is going through with the purchase so I may go take a peak at his camera over the holidays as I will be in his city.

My friends and I were chatting and just none of us have any excitement for this camera so we aren't in a rush. We are all pretty hardcore into Sony. We all own 300GM and 600GM and one of my friends also owns 400GM. All of us shoot A1. That isn't to say we won't all own it one day. I think all 3 of us will buy it in the new year at some point. For me I'll be watching the competition closely for rumours as I'm always willing to hop brands if they excite me more.

That’s the reason im
Just keeping the first version. Rather keep the money

 

[DavidT]

That’s the reason im
Just keeping the first version. Rather keep the money

Having money is overrated

 

[Doug Herr]

It usually takes two upgrade cycles to convince me to part with my $$$$. Unless real-world results convince me otherwise, I'll sit this one out.

 

[arbitrage]

Just saw LR Classic 14.1 show up in CC. It adds support for A1II so all ready to go for the early adopters who use LRC. Just in the nick of time.

Also ACR 17.1 and LR 8.1 add support.

 

[Rene]

Over here in Europe the situation is the same. Luke warm interest according to my dealer who is a large dealer in Sony equipment.

For me this camera offers some features that are important as i do most of my photography from hides, the most important one being pre capture.

The camera “eats batteries” by the way. Dual battery charger is great but omission of a USB cable is poor

I have no issues with the price of the body.
Rene

 

[Tom Reynolds]

Changed my vote to NO. I strongly considered the A1-2/200-600 combo for Pre-capture because of the crop-ability of the 50mp sensor but ultimately decided to invest in the OM Systems 150-400 f4.5 lens instead when I can spare that kind of money.

That being said If I had a Sony prime lens I would upgrade,

 

[Steve]

Are @DavidT and I the only ones left getting a mk2?

 

[sh1209]

Are @DavidT and I the only ones left getting a mk2?

Seems that way at least near term

 

[sh1209]

I usually get super excited with new camera releases, but for some reason with this one, the excitement just isn’t there. I feel as confused as a newborn baby in a topless bar as far as whether or not to purchase this

 

[Tom Reynolds]

Steve, DavidT-

When you evaluate pre-capture on the A1-2 please also evaluate the ability of Sony's 200-600 zoom's ability to keep up focus @ 30 f/s as well as evaluate the need of a zoom to properly frame the scene to capture the expected action.

From my OM-1 experience, 30 f/s is rather slow for pre-capture for anything other than big slow birds so using a zoom becomes critical to create the necessary space for the expected action. Of course, the OM-1 doesn't have the crop-ability of the A1-2 so that point may be moot.

Finally, because of the 50 mp sensor crop-ability of the A1-2 may allow a larger FOV in the initial image meaning more action shots before the bird exits the frame thus allowing the slower frame rate. (My successful pre-capture shots were with the 300f4 @ 50f/s and the lens does keep up.)

Regards,

Tom