Workshop or Tour Costs

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Juliette

Juliette

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Hi there and happy new year! I have a question for this group. I'm a 20 year+ photographer but new to wildlife/birding in the last 2 years. I have yet to attend a workshop and don't know what's reasonable, cost-wise. Right now, I need to stick to short, local outings around the southeast U.S.

I was looking at this one coming up in February. Do you think for what is offered that it's too expensive or just right? Could I be looking at other opportunities? I will be in the Tampa/Sarasota area in February, which is why this appealed to me, but I'm really open to anything.

Thank you.
 
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Juliette said:
Hi there and happy new year! I have a question for this group. I'm a 20 year+ photographer but new to wildlife/birding in the last 2 years. I have yet to attend a workshop and don't know what's reasonable, cost-wise. Right now, I need to stick to short, local outings around the southeast U.S.

I was looking at this one coming up in February. Do you think for what is offered that it's too expensive or just right? Could I be looking at other opportunities? I will be in the Tampa/Sarasota area in February, which is why this appealed to me, but I'm really open to anything.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Check out Mark Smith workshops. https://photoworkshopsandtours.com/
 
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Juliette said:
Hi there and happy new year! I have a question for this group. I'm a 20 year+ photographer but new to wildlife/birding in the last 2 years. I have yet to attend a workshop and don't know what's reasonable, cost-wise. Right now, I need to stick to short, local outings around the southeast U.S.

I was looking at this one coming up in February. Do you think for what is offered that it's too expensive or just right? Could I be looking at other opportunities? I will be in the Tampa/Sarasota area in February, which is why this appealed to me, but I'm really open to anything.

Thank you.
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I've been on over 30 photography tours with various photography guides, spending not much to a lot of money on each one, so the entire range of what is offered for the most part. The workshop you are looking at seems to me to be appropriately priced and something I'd go on. Prices range all over the place as costs differ for each type of trip, some include lodging and food and some do not. None include transportation except for very unique circumstances. This looks like a really fun and reasonably priced workshop to me. But it all depends on what you want and can afford.
 
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It is difficult to be sure. If you learn even one thing that makes your photography more fun, that seems a small price to pay. If it turns out to be less useful, it is not prohibitive (I recognise that is not my call to make, but if you are considering the trip it must be reasonably within your budget!:))
My experience is with multi day trips with everything included- meals and accommodation, so not comparing apples with apples. I say If you are interested and it looks like fun, give it a go! And post shots of those beautiful creatures.
Good shooting
I
 
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Another vote for Mark Smith's Spoonbill workshop. I did it last March and it was worth it to me.

Prices will vary greatly. You can get time in a blind in S Texas for something like $200-300 a day if I remember right.

I tend to prefer to do things on my own and I'm a cheapskate, but I've done some workshops that were worth the money to me. One of the best things to do is select an area you want to go to, or a species you want to photograph, then just ask around. Many people here have done lots of workshops and can give good advice.
 
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Juliette said:
Hi there and happy new year! I have a question for this group. I'm a 20 year+ photographer but new to wildlife/birding in the last 2 years. I have yet to attend a workshop and don't know what's reasonable, cost-wise. Right now, I need to stick to short, local outings around the southeast U.S.

I was looking at this one coming up in February. Do you think for what is offered that it's too expensive or just right? Could I be looking at other opportunities? I will be in the Tampa/Sarasota area in February, which is why this appealed to me, but I'm really open to anything.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
For California, those rates are a steal! Three boat rides for $1500? Grab it.
 
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Thank you all for your feedback! I’ll try and see the links provided and go from there. I just really wanted to know basically if the tour that I sent you the link to is out of the range of what’s considered normal. You answered that for me, so thank you! Mark Smith looks perfect!
 
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High Juliette,
Workshops offer a few things that might be of interest to you... Education, Location w/ high chance of seeing target species, and collegiality with like-minded photographers. With that said, while the latter can be fun, it can also can get old if you enjoy a more quiet experience.
I have done a few photo workshops and generally reserve this experience for international trips with hard to access destinations and species. When shooting in the continental US, I look for private guides where I can be put on location but not compete with other photographers.
Someone mentioned the Santa Clara Ranch as a good destination. I would like to give that a second vote. You could spend 2 nights and get about three days of photography for less than the cost of the workshop. The latter would include lodging on site and access to both bird ponds and raptor blinds. The per day price includes a guide who will manage the perches and feeding the birds. Take a look at their website... Beto provides a first class experience.

bruce
 
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Think about whether it's instruction, subject matter, making great photos, destination, or the experience you want. Many trips are a little of all of these things, but if the answer is you want to photograph large wading birds including spoonbills, you have a very different set of options than wanting to learn to photograph large wading birds with lots of hands on instruction.

Two days is a very short time period. With that in mind, for a typical day you have a couple of hours in the early morning, a couple of hours late in the day, and a lot of harsh light in between that is better for classroom or learning than producing great photos. If skies are overcast or it's rainy, you'll still be out photographing but conditions can be a challenge.

Spoonbills are relatively common in Florida - you just need to know where to go and when to be there. There are some good spoonbill rookeries in the area of your tour, but they are best accessed from water so you need a boat or a guide with a boat. The rookeries are tightly managed and patrolled with limits on how close you can get. I recall it's 100 feet away or more. Or you can go to St. Augustine Alligator Farm in April or May and spend as much time as you want standing on a boardwalk photographing spoonbills and other wading birds often within 50 feet. Spoonbills are regularly seen up the coast as far as Jekyll Island and Harris Neck NWR in Georgia.
 
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Hi Juliette , this is the way a would approach the subject of bird photography. (Borrowed from Steve Perry). You may already know this but it is worth covering the basics so you make a good photo-financial decision.
#1 Need to have the correct equipment and be familiar to all the settings.
#2 Develop the correct technique ( Steve Perry has multiple videos on that)
#3 Once #1 an d #2 are achieved , then develop your "art style " or "art license" of the bird images you take.

I do not know where are you based. I live in Atlanta and will giving a talk on " How to photograph hummingbirds in your backyard " n Cartersville , GA . Here is the link: https://boothphotographyguild.org/c...-to-photograph-hummingbirds-in-your-backyard/ . It covers how to do the set-up, ie feeder , perching , equipment and composition. This also applies to other birds.

I hope this helps.
 
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Most of you must be rich if you think sixteen hundred dollars for two days is a good deal. There is no way I would ever pay that much (even if I could afford it) to see a common species like that. I have never done any photo tour because the ones that are photo specific are just prohibitivly expensive. However in two months I am hiring a private guide in Spain for two days to see Iberian lynx - morning drives to spots he knows they have been recently seen and afternoon in a hide on private land where they are frequently seen. That is only 300 euros a day and hotel in heart of lynx country is only 55 euros a night. So I am getting a rare species that is very difficult to find on your own with a one-on-one guide for a fraction of what this spoonbill tour is charging to take five people to see a species you can find on your own. TO ME it would not be worth it, but only you can decide if it is right FOR YOU. Apparently most others on this thread think it is worthwhile and I am the minority opinion.
 
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Juliette said:
Hi there and happy new year! I have a question for this group. I'm a 20 year+ photographer but new to wildlife/birding in the last 2 years. I have yet to attend a workshop and don't know what's reasonable, cost-wise. Right now, I need to stick to short, local outings around the southeast U.S.

I was looking at this one coming up in February. Do you think for what is offered that it's too expensive or just right? Could I be looking at other opportunities? I will be in the Tampa/Sarasota area in February, which is why this appealed to me, but I'm really open to anything.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Hello Juliette, and welcome to BCG! The workshop you cited looks very interesting but seems a little pricey by my pedestrian standards. For $800/day (or less) you could probably get a private guide to show you around. Are you looking for instruction or just opportunities to shoot some interesting birds? If only the latter, then you’d have lots of chances to see tons of birds in the Sarasota area - early mornings at Siesta Beach is one of my favorite places for black skimmers and other shorebirds, Myakka State Park is wonderful too, and Celery Fields typically has a wide variety of birds in residence or passing through, including spoonbills. If you were to contact the Audubon Center at Celery Fields, I’m sure they could put you in touch with a local guide (I’ve done it myself). In any event, best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
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MrFotoFool said:
Most of you must be rich if you think sixteen hundred dollars for two days is a good deal. There is no way I would ever pay that much (even if I could afford it) to see a common species like that. I have never done any photo tour because the ones that are photo specific are just prohibitivly expensive. However in two months I am hiring a private guide in Spain for two days to see Iberian lynx - morning drives to spots he knows they have been recently seen and afternoon in a hide on private land where they are frequently seen. That is only 300 euros a day and hotel in heart of lynx country is only 55 euros a night. So I am getting a rare species that is very difficult to find on your own with a one-on-one guide for a fraction of what this spoonbill tour is charging to take five people to see a species you can find on your own. TO ME it would not be worth it, but only you can decide if it is right FOR YOU. Apparently most others on this thread think it is worthwhile and I am the minority opinion.
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I agree with you 100%. $800/day (without lodging) for a photo tour is beyond my price range, but then I’m just a poor geezer from Buffalo, NY. I’ve paid premium prices for a few photo tours, but they’ve been to more exotic locales and have included lodging, transportation, and food.

BTW, I’m very interested in your Iberian Lynx plans, and would be love to know more once you’ve returned from your trip. It’s something that I’ve toyed with for a couple of years. Best of luck, and hope you get some great shots!
 
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I don't understand why people pay for workshops in public locations where anyone can drive to to take pictures of common subjects. A different matter is locations with difficult access like the need for boats or wilderness safaris or setups with blinds, etc. If you need instructions on how to take pictures, that can be done much more effectively and inexpensively in a 1 or 2 hr one-on-one session.

If you want to learn about photographing in a public location, there is SO much info online, all free. If you can't find the information you are looking for, find an image online from the location of interest and contact the photographer. In my experience, most are very willing to help. Some workshops in public places actually make an effort to not reveal the location to the public like it is some secret you have to pay for.
 
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Iberian Lynx? I live in Spain (partly) and started non profit trips for nature photographers in Spain including Lynx . I am assuming you are going to Andujar for lynx. Been there years ago and didn’t see any. There are more reliable places and I photographed them with a lot of success last year in Spain and this year I will be there over a 3 week period with a nr of photographers . You can find the Lynx images on my Instagram account. By the way: cost for tours here in Europe is very inflated
 
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$1600 a day? That should include hotel and 2 if not 3 meals. That seems awfully expensive for boat rides to a Rookery and a lunch.

I'm hoping it's $1590 for all 5 people and that it's not 5 total people for $1590 each. If that is the case, $300 per person is normal for lunch and no hotel stay
 
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Woodyg3 said:
Another vote for Mark Smith's Spoonbill workshop. I did it last March and it was worth it to me.

Prices will vary greatly. You can get time in a blind in S Texas for something like $200-300 a day if I remember right.

I tend to prefer to do things on my own and I'm a cheapskate, but I've done some workshops that were worth the money to me. One of the best things to do is select an area you want to go to, or a species you want to photograph, then just ask around. Many people here have done lots of workshops and can give good advice.
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Just for comparison, Mark Smith charges $400 per person for the Spoonbill workshop in Florida (takes 6 people) and no food or lodging is included. Not sure how long it is? A morning? And doesn't mention a ride in a boat to the location? So for 3 outings it would be $1,200? No lunch and no mention of waders which this one provides. Not saying who is a better guide, photography tutor, etc. But just comparing prices. If you can find a spoonbill rookery on your own and go on your own (and don'w want or need photography assistance), you can control your hours and save the money. If your time is limited and would like someone to assist in the photography, water setup, etc then a workshop is definitely a better way to go.
PS. I went with Connor/Jess in a remote area of British Columbia where they assisted us going into lakes with waders for photographing water birds. Definitely thought their help in finding these remote places (with no other people around to spook the birds) and assistance in going into the lakes, etc was worth it for me. Got some great photos that I would never have gotten in the short time we were there.
 
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Before you criticize the price too heavily, the rookeries in this area are in Tampa Bay and only accessible by boat. A large portion of the cost is associated with having a captain, exclusive use of the boat, and the guidance they provide. You are not allowed to be within a specified distance of the land - 100 feet. You need to be in the right place with the right angles to get good photos.

Arthur Morris had a similar spoonbill trip in 2023 at the same time of year. He charged $1199 for 1.5 days including boat, captain, and expenses. His tours likely involve standing in the water and photographing the spoonbills. He has the same limit of 5 people. Artie is a friend and a fantastic photographer. His style is a bit crusty - he is serious about photography, teaching, and working hard to get the shot. Some people find him a little too "New York". I've co-taught with him in 2022 at a Jekyll Island workshop. If you want to learn, he will do a great job.

The 2023 Spoonbill Boat 1-1/2 DAY MINI-IPT. The Expanded Winter IPT (Including the 1 1/2 DAY MINI IPT). And Spoonbill & Canon EF 800mm f/5.6 L IS Memories « Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

www.birdsasart-blog.com www.birdsasart-blog.com
 
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I am always amazed on how much more expensive things are over in the US. A few numbers:
* I will go later this month to Canada for a 7 days/6 nights snowy owl shoot with another 4 fellow participants and our excellent photography guide. The whole price: approx USD4.800 for the 7 days ex plane tickets but hotel, meals, single rooms, local transport, ... That is an expensive trip
* 8 days/7 nights hide photography in Hungary in the hides of Bence Máté. All including as from landing in Budapest to departing again: USD 3.000 all under guidance of a pro photographer
* 5 days/4 nights for a workshop with another pro teacher and photographer to Greece for the Dalmatian pelican, All including as from landing in Sofia: USD 2.500

Happy for the guides that can ask that kind of money, I really am, but there is no difference in quality between a US and EU guide but I guess it is reputation that can allow the guides to ask that kind of money. I see the same for them prices in the BBQ scene how much the pitmasters can charge for attending a workshop or just a presentation.
Things always cost heaps more over in the US, just the feeling we get over here. Always amazed on how little you get for high hotel prices and how expensive food is when you take the 18-20% tip in it, another ridiculous thing many of us Europeans do not understand. Pay the people proper wages so they not have kiss your *** that evening with an overacting show. Just me ranting here.
 
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Vincent_VdB said:
I am always amazed on how much more expensive things are over in the US. A few numbers:
* I will go later this month to Canada for a 7 days/6 nights snowy owl shoot with another 4 fellow participants and our excellent photography guide. The whole price: approx USD4.800 for the 7 days ex plane tickets but hotel, meals, single rooms, local transport, ... That is an expensive trip
* 8 days/7 nights hide photography in Hungary in the hides of Bence Máté. All including as from landing in Budapest to departing again: USD 3.000 all under guidance of a pro photographer
* 5 days/4 nights for a workshop with another pro teacher and photographer to Greece for the Dalmatian pelican, All including as from landing in Sofia: USD 2.500

Happy for the guides that can ask that kind of money, I really am, but there is no difference in quality between a US and EU guide but I guess it is reputation that can allow the guides to ask that kind of money. I see the same for them prices in the BBQ scene how much the pitmasters can charge for attending a workshop or just a presentation.
Things always cost heaps more over in the US, just the feeling we get over here. Always amazed on how little you get for high hotel prices and how expensive food is when you take the 18-20% tip in it, another ridiculous thing many of us Europeans do not understand. Pay the people proper wages so they not have kiss your *** that evening with an overacting show. Just me ranting here.
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With all that said, I know pro photographers that lead tours in the US who are barely scraping by. Other's seem to have a huge followings and are completely booked (even though in at least in some cases they are not very good tour leaders). One does have to keep in mind that in the US, unlike many other places in the world, health care is not covered by the government. So wildlife photo tour guides have to cover their own medical insurance plus insurance for the participants on the trips they lead in case a participant is injured.
As for tips, in my area (the Bay Area, California), it is completely crazy. When they ring you up at the register at a bakery, coffee shop, etc they want you to tip them!
 
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As far as the cost of the originally posted workshop, how much do you think a boat captain would charge for three rides like this? I really have NO idea, I'm just asking because I wonder how much of the cost is for the boat.
 
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I have seen very similar tours differ widely in price. Partly due to the number of participants, the travel costs of the tour leader, what they think they can charge (or willing to charge). If you charge higher amounts you get different type of clients ..
 
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