Z Roadmap 20Sept 2022, Nikon brochures

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They'd withhold a lens from the market so they can sell more of the lenses they have a hard time delivering? There's no logic in this strategy.
That's just an unintended supply chain issue brought about by covid not a deliberate ploy.
The expensive variants of lenses were first released followed by cheaper ones to prevent cannibalization of the premium ones. For Example: The cheaper 28-70 variant was released after the expensive variant.
200-600 will be competitively priced like the 200-500. Obviously not as cheap, but it won't be more expensive than the Sony's 200-600 despite sharp optics in order to compete with Sony...
 
What Thom says does make sense in the way he says it, but Nikon releasing a Z30 and black Zfc this year while a large part of their user base continues to hold out waiting for something midrange to be released is causing a lot of people to lose patience. Whether it leads to frustration or them jumping to another brand, neither is favorable. With the holiday season approaching, they would likely do well releasing an updated Z6 which appeals to many people and is still cheap enough that it would be bought for the holidays. If the next camera comes in spring, it really would need to be cameras and they would need to be great releases. There needs to be a smaller, performance oriented body and a great midlevel consumer body that will generate excitement. It would also be nice to see a performance DX body and a high resolution FX option. They also need to get the rest of their lens roadmap lenses released. If they can do those things in the next six months, they will jump ahead of the competition. If they drag it out, the competition might stay ahead. This of course is just my non expert opinion.

It is obvious Nikon's Imaging group is juggling R&D and capacities of its factory lines to meet the markets demands across parallel product lines. The Z9 is presumably pinning down skilled assembly lines in Thailand, at least (although demand may be easing off). Yet Nikon is also making the Z30, Z5 and other 2 entry Z MILCs aimed at young and/or entry hobbyists, many of whom prioritize video. [EDIT: Thom Hogan doesn't even touch on the latter in his recent post. Instead stating, "So these increases are coming from selling more Z6/Z7/Z9/D850/D6 type of product and less Zfc/Z30/Z50/Z5/Dxxx types...." The facts are the average selling price of DX MILCs are hinger than entry DSLRs (most of these Nikon has stopped selling recently, anyway). Nikon has to meet demand at both ends, which is the life support as young hobbyists grow up into established hobbyists or Pros who then afford the higher-enf Z products...]

Then there's the finite rate of assembly and production of the exotic telephotos, particularly where demand has outstripped capacity; not least if it's exceeded the projected production of glass elements. It is impossible to fast track the annealing these. Component shortages are the other big obstacle to increase production of these high tech products, cameras particularly.

The parallel production strategy is hinted at in Nikon's stated aims in Operational Direction [images of pages refer above - 2022 IR report} is to "appeal to video creators.....strengthen products and services responding to young hobbyists..." alongside aiming at the top tier markets, including "...deploying the popular advanced features present in our flagship Z9 model to other models, as well".

To date, the growth of the Z system appears to have chosen to first get out the Ultrawide and standard primes, the triad of best-in-reviews f2.8S Dragons etc, with the pair of TCs released with the 70-200 f2.8S. All along since late 2018, the Z6 and Z7 lines have worked very well for events, content creators, landscape Pros etc. Over the past year, we have seen the four Z-telephoto primes, 100-400 S with the Z9. With the 70-200 f2.8S, it's these most recent highend products, which have clinched the status of the Z System for Wildlife and Sports.

But as you say, the prosumer MILCs are missing but likely to be the next cameras Nikon releases with the 200-600 (finally). Personally, I see these announced within the next few months. Thereafter, it's intriguing to consider whatever additional lenses Nikon plans to expand the Z system from the current committed 39 to expending to a more complete system of 50+ over the next 50 months.
And last but by no means least, we can continue to see new releases by Nikon to improve its profile in the video market

 
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Z Nikkor Roadmap updated 5 January 2023: 6 lenses are still to be released

Nikon Roadmap 5 Feb2023.jpg
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Queue the "Nikon-is-going-to-lose-me-if-the- 200-600-is-not-forthcoming" whines.

😀
It may be a whine but the lack of this lens is what has kept me from moving from F mount to Z mount. I don't see my 200-500 performing any better on a Z7 or a Z9 than it does on my D500. Since I cannot afford one of the big primes (and a zoom fits my style of nature photography better) I'm waiting to see what the 200-600 brings to the table. I'm not "threatening" to move to another platform but on the other hand, I'm not getting any younger either. The number of years I have remaining to wander around in the woods and fields carrying camera gear are finite. I don't know when that day is and hope it is many years in the future but we all know it is coming and at 62 it is a lot closer than it was when I was 42. :)

Jeff
 
It may be a whine but the lack of this lens is what has kept me from moving from F mount to Z mount. I don't see my 200-500 performing any better on a Z7 or a Z9 than it does on my D500.

I haven't used the 200-500 specifically, but general consensus is that F lenses perform better on their Z9 than they ever did on F bodies, and I can't see how the 200-500 would be any different.

Eye-detect AF will let you hit the eye rather than the bird, and I think most would say that even the non-subject-detection of the Z9 is better than the D500. I'd love to speak specifically to the 200-500, but I've never shot one. Perhaps ask around here?

I hear you that the 200-600 is well overdue at this point... I'm waiting for it to decide between keeping my 500PF or buying a 400/4.5 or 800PF. But don't discount the AF (and other!) improvement of a Z body!
 
I haven't used the 200-500 specifically, but general consensus is that F lenses perform better on their Z9 than they ever did on F bodies, and I can't see how the 200-500 would be any different.

Eye-detect AF will let you hit the eye rather than the bird, and I think most would say that even the non-subject-detection of the Z9 is better than the D500. I'd love to speak specifically to the 200-500, but I've never shot one. Perhaps ask around here?

I hear you that the 200-600 is well overdue at this point... I'm waiting for it to decide between keeping my 500PF or buying a 400/4.5 or 800PF. But don't discount the AF (and other!) improvement of a Z body!
The biggest problem I've had with the 200-500 since it was new is nobody would ever accuse it of being fast to focus. I've used it on 3 different D bodies (D5600 D7200 and now D500). I also shot a buddy's D850 with the his 200-500.

It was and still is a great lens, sharp, and enables the photographer to produce quality images. It has; however, been surpassed by newer technology, newer lighter weight but just as robust materials, better coatings on glass, and faster focusing.
I agree it should perform the same on a Z camera and with the addition of eye tracking and some of the other AF modes a little better but overall, the biggest drawback with the lens most likely wouldn't be overcome with a Z camera and that is slow to grab focus.

When the 200-600 comes out (or should I say "if") if it is comparable to the Sony 200-600 I'll be all in. If it surpasses the Sony (which after all this time it should). I will be the first non NPS peasant in line to get one,

Jeff
 
Understood. It's not going to suddenly become a 600/4 with a body change, I agree. A Z9 would be a considerable improvement over the D500, but if you're happy with what you have now, waiting for a 200-600 and a "Z8" seems a wiser plan.
 
Today's new updated Edition. So "only" 2 lenses are still to land. Perhaps, Nikon will repopulate the Roadmap with more planned lenses - as they have committed to 50+ by 2025

The Nikon USA website reports that they have 42 "lens", 20 prime, 18 zoom, and 4 adapters and converts (2 TC, 2 FTZ versions)

Plus 2 more on the road map, means that they can take it easy 🤣

Let's see (my thoughts)

Long collar Macro & Macro Zoom
180-400 TC replacement
2 or 3 PC/TS-E lens
Ultra wide prime or two
Perhaps 600 PF
70-300 F/4 to finish F/4 trinity

Should keep them busy for through 2025
 
I agree with your list
Add a 200 f2 and 500 f4 perhaps with integral TC
100(120?)-300 f2.8 TC14
1200 f8 PF

A high end 300-600 f4.8S TC14 (perhaps as a faster heavier f4.5S) would be very versatile for wildlife photography including video

A Z 600 PF would likely cause a feeding frenzy! Scaling the 800 f6.3 PF design 127mm window) equals a 600 f4.8S PF. Its release will sell more cameras and lenses....

105 f1.8S is another obvious gap, considering Nikon history of this focal length.

The Fast Ultrawide Prime niche is most certainly a big gap, especially considering how its design can leverage Z mount architecture.

It's going to be interesting to see how the new 70-180 f2.8 performs for close ups... So in the approx role of the 70-180 AFD Micro Nikkor.

We will maybe see a surprise or more in new Z Nikkors before the end of the current financial year - April 2024. (Also see Thom Hogan's suggestions in March). Both the following sources suggest Nikon has more products planned for release this year:



The Nikon USA website reports that they have 42 "lens", 20 prime, 18 zoom, and 4 adapters and converts (2 TC, 2 FTZ versions)

Plus 2 more on the road map, means that they can take it easy 🤣

Let's see (my thoughts)

Long collar Macro & Macro Zoom
180-400 TC replacement
2 or 3 PC/TS-E lens
Ultra wide prime or two
Perhaps 600 PF
70-300 F/4 to finish F/4 trinity

Should keep them busy for through 2025
 
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I agree with your list
Add a 200 f2 [..] perhaps with integral TC
this lens would be a LOT more interesting with a built in TC

100(120?)-300 f2.8 TC14
yes please!

A Z 600 PF would likely cause a feeding frenzy! Scaling the 800 f6.3 PF design 127mm window) equals a 600 f4.8S PF. Its release will sell more cameras and lenses....
i don’t really have any use for the exotic 600mm and beyond, but i’d be interested in something like this
 
What is being overlooked is that Nikon is a relatively tiny company with gross revenues that in 2022 were 3 percent those of Canon. Sony has gross revenues that are nearly three times as great as those of Canon. More than 50% of Canon's revenues comes from its commercial printing and copier division. Nikon is trying to stay profitable despite its having these competitors.

Designing a new lens or camera is not a big deal at this time but producing them in quantities at a cost low enough that customers will buy them is a very different story. Production planners need to guess how much demand there will be and therefore how much of the company's limited resources to commit to producing each new product. Nikon also has a greater problem sourcing components than Canon or Sony and cannot spread an order for a part across multiple suppliers and this makes it a much more fragile supply chain situation.

PF lenses are a niche market much like the low end 180-600mm zoom. They are more affordable for the hobbyist but not more profitable for a company like Nikon. Nikon has already pretty much left the compact camera market to better husband its limited production capabilities. For example, Sony released its 200-600mm lens in the fall of 2019 and now 3.5 years later Nikon will be releasing its 180-600mm zoom lens.
 
I agree with your list
Add a 200 f2 and 500 f4 perhaps with integral TC
100(120?)-300 f2.8 TC14
1200 f8 PF

A high end 300-600 f4.8S TC14 (perhaps as a faster heavier f4.5S) would be very versatile for wildlife photography including video

A Z 600 PF would likely cause a feeding frenzy! Scaling the 800 f6.3 PF design 127mm window) equals a 600 f4.8S PF. Its release will sell more cameras and lenses....

105 f1.8S is another obvious gap, considering Nikon history of this focal length.

The Fast Ultrawide Prime niche is most certainly a big gap, especially considering how its design can leverage Z mount architecture.

It's going to be interesting to see how the new 70-180 f2.8 performs for close ups... So in the approx role of the 70-180 AFD Micro Nikkor.

We will maybe see a surprise or more in new Z Nikkors before the end of the current financial year - April 2024. (Also see Thom Hogan's suggestions in March). Both the following sources suggest Nikon has more products planned for release this year:


Or instead of 300-600 F/4.8 S TC which I consider highly unlikely (too big), a 200-600 F/5.6 zoom or perhaps 180-450 F/4.5 TC zoom. Both S line lenses
 
For example, Sony released its 200-600mm lens in the fall of 2019 and now 3.5 years later Nikon will be releasing its 180-600mm zoom lens.

Unfair comment. 3.5 years ago Nikon was barely entering the ML world. They had a lot of catching up to do. Perhaps the 180-600 is a year late (given the other lenses Nikon introduced) but not 3.5 years late.
 
Well, it's rather a challenge to relate your post to the Nikon of 2023. There's no point repeating the details above, in the more recent posts in this thread.

Nikon's healthy and its restructuring is paying off. They planned the Z System carefully before winding down the DSLR business, while transitioning the smartphone competition, amidst the disruptions of a certain pandemic, and chip shortages. Still, Nikon Imaging bit the bullet and it has transitioned rather successfully to its stated focus on higher end imaging products for the professional and hobbyist markets. This has included integrating robotic procedures into its efficient manufacturing of the photographic products, and Nikon's robotics division is integral to its wider businesses: Precision Manufacturing, Media etc.

The hard facts include 40 Z Nikkor optics released in < 5 years, with a rising Camera : Lens sales ratio. The company has committed to release ~10 more new lenses by 2025. Z9 sales exceed the sales of any previous Pro flagship camera, since the halcyon years of the DSLR market peak, ~15 years earlier. It is further clear the newest Z8 camera is a tactic to sell more Z9 technology, and so leverage the target market to buy into the Z Market, and purchase more products, lenses especially.

In short Nikon Imaging is profitable and the company remains committed to a significant investment in R&D - presumably invested back into future products. To further restate the obvious, the evidence tells us the camera industry of Nikon Imaging has restructured to perform profitably in a tighter market of 4-5 million ILCs sold/year; a market in which "...700k units puts Nikon at 13% market share for ILC...".


What is being overlooked is that Nikon is a relatively tiny company with gross revenues that in 2022 were 3 percent those of Canon. Sony has gross revenues that are nearly three times as great as those of Canon. More than 50% of Canon's revenues comes from its commercial printing and copier division. Nikon is trying to stay profitable despite its having these competitors.

Designing a new lens or camera is not a big deal at this time but producing them in quantities at a cost low enough that customers will buy them is a very different story. Production planners need to guess how much demand there will be and therefore how much of the company's limited resources to commit to producing each new product. Nikon also has a greater problem sourcing components than Canon or Sony and cannot spread an order for a part across multiple suppliers and this makes it a much more fragile supply chain situation.

PF lenses are a niche market much like the low end 180-600mm zoom. They are more affordable for the hobbyist but not more profitable for a company like Nikon. Nikon has already pretty much left the compact camera market to better husband its limited production capabilities. For example, Sony released its 200-600mm lens in the fall of 2019 and now 3.5 years later Nikon will be releasing its 180-600mm zoom lens.
 
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What is being overlooked is that Nikon is a relatively tiny company with gross revenues that in 2022 were 3 percent those of Canon. Sony has gross revenues that are nearly three times as great as those of Canon. More than 50% of Canon's revenues comes from its commercial printing and copier division. Nikon is trying to stay profitable despite its having these competitors.

Designing a new lens or camera is not a big deal at this time but producing them in quantities at a cost low enough that customers will buy them is a very different story. Production planners need to guess how much demand there will be and therefore how much of the company's limited resources to commit to producing each new product. Nikon also has a greater problem sourcing components than Canon or Sony and cannot spread an order for a part across multiple suppliers and this makes it a much more fragile supply chain situation.

PF lenses are a niche market much like the low end 180-600mm zoom. They are more affordable for the hobbyist but not more profitable for a company like Nikon. Nikon has already pretty much left the compact camera market to better husband its limited production capabilities. For example, Sony released its 200-600mm lens in the fall of 2019 and now 3.5 years later Nikon will be releasing its 180-600mm zoom lens.

What is the point of your comment? No one who follows the camera industry is overlooking the fact that Nikon doesn’t make PlayStations. Are you saying that Nikon is too small to make good and innovative products? That’s obviously wrong. No company in the photographic industry has released more innovative products than Nikon over the past 2-3 years. So, again, what are you even trying to say?
 
What is being overlooked is that Nikon is a relatively tiny company with gross revenues that in 2022 were 3 percent those of Canon. Sony has gross revenues that are nearly three times as great as those of Canon. More than 50% of Canon's revenues comes from its commercial printing and copier division. Nikon is trying to stay profitable despite its having these competitors.

Designing a new lens or camera is not a big deal at this time but producing them in quantities at a cost low enough that customers will buy them is a very different story. Production planners need to guess how much demand there will be and therefore how much of the company's limited resources to commit to producing each new product. Nikon also has a greater problem sourcing components than Canon or Sony and cannot spread an order for a part across multiple suppliers and this makes it a much more fragile supply chain situation.

PF lenses are a niche market much like the low end 180-600mm zoom. They are more affordable for the hobbyist but not more profitable for a company like Nikon. Nikon has already pretty much left the compact camera market to better husband its limited production capabilities. For example, Sony released its 200-600mm lens in the fall of 2019 and now 3.5 years later Nikon will be releasing its 180-600mm zoom lens.
The relative size of Nikon compared to Canon or Sony makes a lot less difference than you might think. For Nikon, cameras and lenses are a core business. For Canon, they are relatively important and there is good disclosure on performance to the financial community and investors. For Sony, there is virtually no disclosure positively or negatively - it's not big enough to matter.

All of these companies allocate capital and other resources based on profitability. It's all about return on equity and growth in return on equity. It needs to not only be profitable - it needs to cover the cost of the equity and associated investments in the business. If it fails to provide as good a return as other business units, capital is diverted to the places that are growing profitably and faster.

Sony is a very large company - but not because of cameras or lenses. In Sony's case, the big drivers are the gaming and entertainment businesses. ILC cameras are a small part of the Entertainment Segment - a segment that has declining profits due to the television business and the pressures of high R&D. The somewhat related Image Sensor segment is primarily focused on phones and automobiles - and ILC camera sensors from all companies are just a small part of the business. So in this case, the ILC camera business is at risk of reduced R&D because of the impact from the much larger television business slowing. Note that Sony is also in the smartphone business. That business has gone from a 9% market share in 2007 and a peak sales of 39 million units in 2014 - to just 2.9 million units and a market share under 1% in 2021. Being big is not necessarily a positive. At Sony, ILC cameras are expected to produce profits that can support higher growth businesses (Page 20 of the FY 2022 Supplemental information). None of this reflects negatively about Sony ILC cameras - just the reality that being part of a big company is not necessarily a positive.
 
Yeah in fact it’d be the opposite..if they know a division isn’t doing all that well, they may very well shut it down and re-purpose their investments where more money is.
@EricBowles yah, i've always thought that based on the ongoing narrative about the relative size of the companies. if canon's ilc business wasn't viable, canon (the overall company) isn't likely to say to that division, that's fine, you can just operate at a loss.
 
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