Z vs F Mount Foolishness

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I agree with the general sentiment; that F-mount glass is still quality glass, and that there are some real bargains out there in regard to DSLR bodies and F-mount lenses for people looking to build/expand their kit. On the flip side...

I'm approaching retirement. Not there yet, but in the next two-three years. I have sold off my DSLR bodies and replaced them with the Z9 and the Z8, and I have sold all of my F-mount lenses with the exception of the 500 PF and my 1.4X TC. I will probably sell those off before I retire and replace them with the 600 PF in the Z mount and the Z mount TC, because I don't know how much longer those bodies and lenses will be supported, how readily available parts will be, etc. When I retire I want the kit that I will use from that point on, and I'm about there (if they come out with a mirrorless version of the D500 all bets are off), and I want support/parts/etc. available for the gear I have.
 
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coachjohn57 said:
I agree with the general sentiment; that F-mount glass is still quality glass, and that there are some real bargains out there in regard to DSLR bodies and F-mount lenses for people looking to build/expand their kit. On the flip side...

I'm approaching retirement. Not there yet, but in the next two-three years. I have sold off my DSLR bodies and replaced them with the Z9 and the Z8, and I have sold all of my F-mount lenses with the exception of the 500 PF and my 1.4X TC. I will probably sell those off before I retire and replace them with the 600 PF in the Z mount and the Z mount TC, because I don't know how much longer those bodies and lenses will be supported, how readily available parts will be, etc. When I retire I want the kit that I will use from that point on, and I'm about there (if they come out with a mirrorless version of the D500 all bets are off), and I want support/parts/etc. available for the gear I have.
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CoachJohn57,
I retired 7 years ago Jan 1. I thought for sure the camera kit (and guitars and fishing gear and...) that I accumulated before retirement would be the last. 7 years later, I have 1 more guitar, a totally new camera outfit and a whole bunch of new fishing gear. The amazing part is I was able to convince my chief financial officer (aka my wife) that I actually needed this stuff. I am still not sure if she really believed me or was just humoring an old man.

Jeff
 
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Larry S. said:
Stefan, Much that you said is true. There are real values out there in DSLR gear. Nikon, Canon, Sony et al.. have changed their corporate vision to more effective camera platforms. They all need to be competitive in the marketplace. The mirrorless revolution is not falling into any particular demographic or economic group as I see it. Young professionals are not going to be content with any gear that compromises productivity or quality. The better tools will usually produce the best results. Nikon, for example, has been faithful to the “F” mount since the 50’s. Sixty+ years later technology advanced that eliminated the “mirror”. Then came the changes in lens design.
DougC’s assertion is correct. The frenzied lust for mirrorless “Z” glass has inspired many to throw their “F” lenses under the bus. And, as you pointed out, great used gear values are out there. Not just for budget minded photographers, but everyone. Your example of a D810 for $800 is a good one. You can likely find a D850 for $1,200 or less now. His coyote image speaks for itself. And you agree… Fantastic!🤩
I use both DSLR and Z cameras, for different situations and lenses I have. Yes, I’m a retired guy. But I don’t exactly have a disposable income that allows me to have my camera dealer on “speed dial”… I simply use what works best for my needs. I think a lot of us are in the same boat…..
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Lots of good points here. Many of us bought our f mounts used and are now very well used. As I mentioned in my previous post my 70-200 f mount g lens was used a great deal for sports as was the 24-70. I put well over a 150k shots on 2 D500’s and one D850. Probably half of the shots were with the 70-200 and a bunch on the 24-70. It is simply a good time to replace those well used f mount lenses.

Nikon has made some great glass over the years and I think it is why many of us shoot Nikon. I liken it to golf. Some golfers try to improve their game with a new set of clubs or a driver or a putter. Some guys buy new clubs because they are not good golfers and think new clubs will make them better. The truth of it all is that a good golfer will be good regardless of his clubs and a bad golfer won’t be any better with new clubs. The good golfer might see improved abilities because of the new clubs.

In photography we make the same choices. I honestly haven’t seen anyone complaining how bad their old glass was. I have seen people say they like their new glass better. Heck I have heard just as many people discuss how much better their E glass was over their G glass. Certainly the Eversion of the 70-200 f2.8 was discussed often over its older brother in the G version.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
CoachJohn57,
I retired 7 years ago Jan 1. I thought for sure the camera kit (and guitars and fishing gear and...) that I accumulated before retirement would be the last. 7 years later, I have 1 more guitar, a totally new camera outfit and a whole bunch of new fishing gear. The amazing part is I was able to convince my chief financial officer (aka my wife) that I actually needed this stuff. I am still not sure if she really believed me or was just humoring an old man.

Jeff
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😂…..There’s no such thing as “too big a tractor” 🚜 or “too many guitars” 🎸….. 📷 ?
 
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Chappy said:
Lots of good points here. Many of us bought our f mounts used and are now very well used. As I mentioned in my previous post my 70-200 f mount g lens was used a great deal for sports as was the 24-70. I put well over a 150k shots on 2 D500’s and one D850. Probably half of the shots were with the 70-200 and a bunch on the 24-70. It is simply a good time to replace those well used f mount lenses.

Nikon has made some great glass over the years and I think it is why many of us shoot Nikon. I liken it to golf. Some golfers try to improve their game with a new set of clubs or a driver or a putter. Some guys buy new clubs because they are not good golfers and think new clubs will make them better. The truth of it all is that a good golfer will be good regardless of his clubs and a bad golfer won’t be any better with new clubs. The good golfer might see improved abilities because of the new clubs.

In photography we make the same choices. I honestly haven’t seen anyone complaining how bad their old glass was. I have seen people say they like their new glass better. Heck I have heard just as many people discuss how much better their E glass was over their G glass. Certainly the Eversion of the 70-200 f2.8 was discussed often over its older brother in the G version.
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Points well made Chappy!👍
 
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Larry S. said:
😂…..There’s no such thing as “too big a tractor” 🚜 or “too many guitars” 🎸….. 📷 ?
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Yes there is such a thing as too big a tractor when it cost over 300 k. I would need to live in it as it is as much as my house.🤪

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Chappy said:
Yes there is such a thing as too big a tractor when it cost over 300 k. I would need to live in it as it is as much as my house.🤪

Used 2022 8R 340 - 422283 | JOHN DEERE | AKRS

Shop Used JOHN DEERE 2022 8R 340 - 422283 from AKRS today! AKRS Equipment is the leading John Deere dealership for new and used farm, ag, lawn and garden, and landscaping equipment.
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Well yeah! I’ve seen your posts in the cotton fields so I knew I’d get a rise out of you on the tractors 🚜🤣
 
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Larry S. said:
Well yeah! I’ve seen your posts in the cotton fields so I knew I’d get a rise out of you on the tractors 🚜🤣
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My current tractors are a 2010 and 2011 model. There worth about 80k. I can spend a lot of money on repairs before having to buy a newer one. Don't think I want to buy a new one when I plan on retiring in 4 years.
 
Beautiful images of a beautiful animal! As Steve Jobs famously said, “technology alone is not enough”. You’ve obviously used what you have to create something wonderful, as all talented practitioners do. Well done!
 
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On the subject of 'old' Nikon glass - does anyone have any good or bad experiences to share on the AF-S 800mm f5.6 E with and without the 1.25 TC? Having concluded that I can't really afford to move to mirrorless I am looking at replacing my Sigma 500mm f4 with a Nikon 800mm + 1.25 TC as my main rig for UK bird photography. I know that it's heavier by about 3lbs but I don't believe that that will be a problem until I'm a complete wreck !

And fantastic shots Doug !
 
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tigger4t said:
On the subject of 'old' Nikon glass - does anyone have any good or bad experiences to share on the AF-S 800mm f5.6 E with and without the 1.25 TC? Having concluded that I can't really afford to move to mirrorless I am looking at replacing my Sigma 500mm f4 with a Nikon 800mm + 1.25 TC as my main rig for UK bird photography. I know that it's heavier by about 3lbs but I don't believe that that will be a problem until I'm a complete wreck !

And fantastic shots Doug !
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Thank you ! Other than weight and price, I’ve never heard or read a negative comment concerning the 800 f5.6.
 
VinnyH said:
Love the coyote shot. 👍🏻 I plan on getting the 500 PF to have a lighter setup for walking around. I may get a Z8 one of these days but have done fine with my 100-400 S lens and Z7ii setup. Really like having a function button to switch to DX mode. The 500 should be nice for my walks.
Happy Holidays to All,
VinnyH
PS: Croton Point Park, NY getting my walking in and saw this gray catbird.
View attachment 76706
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Northern Mockingbird
 
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This is kind along the same lines of upgrading your XYZ lens to the version 2 when it comes out. I don't think anyone is doing it (at least in most cases) because the version 1 stopped taking good images but they are looking for that slightest edge in sharpness, lower weight, better VR, or some other tech. This is no different then that. At least in my eyes it isn't. For me part of it was not wanting to use the adapter any longer. Probably never going to get more for these lens then right now so why not sell them. I think its great for people who can't afford the latest and greatest. For years lens were the one thing that held their value for a long time. Its never been a better time to purchase a F mount lens used. Hopefully a whole lot of people that couldn't afford certain lens in the past can now and get to use them for years to come.
 
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I have upgraded to get substantial performance gains in high ISO or autofocus performance. I got the ISO with the D3 and switched back from Canon. I got the next gen autofocus with the D500/D850/D5 cameras with their dedicated autofocus processor. I now get that with the Z9 camera but could also get it today with the Sony A7 V camera or the Olympus OM-1 MFT camera.

The utility of the 800mm PF is in part it very light weight that enables me to use it without a tripod and the capabilities of the Z9 bird detection that locks onto subject in a fraction of a second.

For my time and expense in pursuing wildlife photography and knowing that I tend to hold onto cameras for up to 5 years and lenses for more than 10 years, the initial cost of a camera or lens needs to be considered within that context.

If my primary focus was on street or architecture or macro or astro or portrait photography then there would be no reason to move to S-mount cameras and their lenses.
 
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I agree…good F mount lenses are still good…but their Z equivalents are mostly better, smaller, and lighter…because of the wider mount throat and better optical design software these days. Z bodies have more features, better sensors and AF…so they’re better as well…but not because of no mirror per, because of the march of progress. And F bodies and lenses are still good and produce good images…but the tech advantages mean more keepers with Z. Not everybody should necessarily upgrade to Z…but at this point it’s hard to recommend spending any funds on F gear…unless it’s for some exotic that is now affordable and the equivalent Z lens is out of the budget…but keep in mind there won’t be any improvement in the F gear at this point.
 
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Long ago, I came to the conclusion that Nikon F-mount AF lenses were, on the whole, far better than I am. The Z-mount lenses are nice, and their function is improved over the F-mount in some aspects. If that improvement assists me in getting better photos, such as significantly lighter weight or faster AF, then I'll consider upgrading. Even then, though, it's no guarantee that I'll be able to realize enough of the benefits to make it worthwhile.

In spite of that, I keep putting off my retirement so that purchasing "improved" equipment is a possibility.
 
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One place where Z mount is significantly better is with medium and wider lenses. Virtually every lens at 50mm and wider is sharper in the midframe to corners than the F-mount predecessor. That applies to photos which require midframe to corner detail - off-center portraits, landscapes, astro, environmental close ups, and even events with medium to larger groups of people. That's where the new wider mount really pays off. My initial Z lens was the 24-70 f/4. The center of the frame was about the same as the F-mount 24-70 f/2.8 lenses, but midframe to corners was noticeably sharper with the Z lens. As a result, I largely stopped using the F-mount lens and D850 for those images and moved much more quickly into Z gear.

There are lots of situations where you don't need midframe to corner sharpness - such as portraits, wildlife in flight, and general wildlife. There are also artistic images where sharpness is not a critical factor. With an F-mount camera that was okay because you had limited ability to focus as you moved to midframe and frame edges. But with Z cameras you can focus to the frame edge, so lenses that are sharp to midframe and frame edges is more important. Of course, because Z cameras can focus at frame edges, even F-mount lenses can be sharper on Z cameras than they were on F-mount cameras.
 
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I am personally attracted to super wide lenses because of the unique and creative perspective opportunities. I have the Z 14-24mm f2.8 s lens. I found that lens to be incredibly sharo throughout the frame. Having so much landscape on the screen with all of it in exquisite detail is compelling.
 
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EricBowles said:
One place where Z mount is significantly better is with medium and wider lenses. Virtually every lens at 50mm and wider is sharper in the midframe to corners than the F-mount predecessor. That applies to photos which require midframe to corner detail - off-center portraits, landscapes, astro, environmental close ups, and even events with medium to larger groups of people. That's where the new wider mount really pays off. My initial Z lens was the 24-70 f/4. The center of the frame was about the same as the F-mount 24-70 f/2.8 lenses, but midframe to corners was noticeably sharper with the Z lens. As a result, I largely stopped using the F-mount lens and D850 for those images and moved much more quickly into Z gear.

There are lots of situations where you don't need midframe to corner sharpness - such as portraits, wildlife in flight, and general wildlife. There are also artistic images where sharpness is not a critical factor. With an F-mount camera that was okay because you had limited ability to focus as you moved to midframe and frame edges. But with Z cameras you can focus to the frame edge, so lenses that are sharp to midframe and frame edges is more important. Of course, because Z cameras can focus at frame edges, even F-mount lenses can be sharper on Z cameras than they were on F-mount cameras.
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Agree with the shorter focal length lenses...
I have the z14-24/2.8 and the z24-120 and in both cases I had F mount counterparts (and several versions of the 24-120). There is a big step up in performance for these two Z series lenses. I eventually gave up on the F 24-120 and bought a 24-70 E lens which I really liked.
 
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Really, I don't see why anybody should care what any of us choose to do but for some reason people do. You could debate on len's sharpness or lack there-of for eternity. I have two Z8 nikons and also have the 500PF, which I loved, and now the 600PF, which I also love. With the 600PF I like that I don't need to remember to bring or put on the converter and the lens is very light. Also, I'm having fun spending my money my way before I die and the kids spend it their way!
 
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