Z6II and Z7II Revealed

[gordon_g]

Never ceases to amaze me how many of these "reviews" don't address the BIF focusing .. just going to have to wait until we get someone to actually do a wildlife review. Hopeful, but starting to have my doubts its going to. be where we want / need it to be.

 

[DavidT]

I find it interesting that for all of the ambassadors Nikon has those who focus on wildlife have mostly been silent on the Z bodies. Even big Moose is still shooting the D bodies for most stuff.

 

[thelordofthelight]

The below link has something on wildlife (3.50 onwards) but nothing that we want to know :-(

 

[Ado Wolf]

Never ceases to amaze me how many of these "reviews" don't address the BIF focusing .. just going to have to wait until we get someone to actually do a wildlife review. Hopeful, but starting to have my doubts its going to. be where we want / need it to be.

I wonder if there is a statistic out there that shows the percentage of photographers per Photography-Field:
for example: 25% Landscape, 15% travel photography, 15% Wildlife, 15 Wedding, 10% Portrait, 10% Street, 10 Macro..

This will give us a hint on which aspects of photography is considered important by Manufacturers, and thus get mostly invested on when Updates are concerned.

What do you guys think? I have a feeling when people think of photography, the first 2 I listed (Landscape and travel) get most attention, taking into account which Lenses in the Z line rolled out first.. BIF is unfortunately probably at the bottom of the list.. but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[Venkatesh VT]

Nikon does not seem to have got its act together on critical parameters for wild life/ action shooting & I think the only reason Nikon announced the Z6 ii & Z7 is to ensure that Nikon shooters will not shift and will wait for the Z6 ll and Z7 ii for the holiday season.It is hoping that by the time delivery starts in Dec it will pull a rabbit out of water with Z cameras that will decimate the competition.
This is explained by the fact that there is not a single video showcasing fast action and BIF of the Z 6 ii and Z 7 ii
It has created a problem for itself by getting bad press since every one is fishing in trobuled waters due to lack of authetic info from Nikon.
Sad but true.

 

[fcotterill]

This is a pertinent question.

A Nikon executive admitted in interview they designed the D6 primarily in response to requests from selected Pro Sports photographers. Thus better for capturing the moment in action, better IQ of jpgs, wireless transmission of images with GPS, and above all autofocus for action. The last spins off to BIF and all aspects of action shooting. Judging from the competitions, media profile and Nikon's own marketing they rate landscapes highly. And weddings and other social events - also, which overlaps with Press a great deal and fast AFC and bullet-proof builds of Pro cameras also suites roving journalists rather well - especially in combat zones.

I suspect all the main camera producers undervalue the high numbers of enthusiast wildlife photographers and especially birders. The growth in wildlife tourism has been big through the digital revolution (ie since 2000) and it began earlier in E Africa and Botswana/Zimbabwe. Latterly we are seeing more and more of allied photo education tours to prime destinations. Many birders take id photos of birds and other species, so a telephoto is essential, and preferably travel friendly. Yet Nikon are prominent at the UK Birdfairs, where Nikon also pushes its binoculars and 'scopes etc. Several of Nikon's ambassadors are prominent wildlifers too. It is the same with Olympus

So on the other hand, it's hard to believe they have not prioritized more phase-fresnel elephotos ie 400 f4 PF and 600 f5.6 PF (hopefully these will eventuate on the Z roadmap!)

I wonder if there is a statistic out there that shows the percentage of photographers per Photography-Field:
for example: 25% Landscape, 15% travel photography, 15% Wildlife, 15 Wedding, 10% Portrait, 10% Street, 10 Macro..

This will give us a hint on which aspects of photography is considered important by Manufacturers, and thus get mostly invested on when Updates are concerned.

What do you guys think? I have a feeling when people think of photography, the first 2 I listed (Landscape and travel) get most attention, taking into account which Lenses in the Z line rolled out first.. BIF is unfortunately probably at the bottom of the list.. but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[fcotterill]

Nikon's marketing remains erratic, even considering strictures of the pandemic. In fact it's shambolic in key respects. Nikon SA has not updated its brochures since the D4s, D810 etc with zilch to download for the Z System!? Sounds like someone(s) should be fired

Nikon | Nikon Middle East & Africa

The official website of Nikon Middle East & Africa

www.nikon.co.za

For example a month post announcing the 500 PF, a web surfer discovered a 'lost' promotional video on a Nikon website - see Nikon Rumors September 2018! Nikon Support and Repair services are also a joke in key regions (eg Africa). Yet Nikon UK is far better organized.

Lastly, this brochure has yet to be translated and posted on their regional websites outside of Japan. IN fact, on the day of the Z II launch the link(s) should have been every registered Nikon owner signed up to alerts. Why does one have to hunt down this information AND then too often rely on www translators (that fail on some pdfs etc) ?

https://www.nikon-image.com/products/mirrorless/common2/pdf/Z7_2_Z6_2.pdf

Maybe some exec in Tokyo will read this thread

Nikon does not seem to have got its act together on critical parameters for wild life/ action shooting & I think the only reason Nikon announced the Z6 ii & Z7 is to ensure that Nikon shooters will not shift and will wait for the Z6 ll and Z7 ii for the holiday season.It is hoping that by the time delivery starts in Dec it will pull a rabbit out of water with Z cameras that will decimate the competition.
This is explained by the fact that there is not a single video showcasing fast action and BIF of the Z 6 ii and Z 7 ii
It has created a problem for itself by getting bad press since every one is fishing in trobuled waters due to lack of authetic info from Nikon.
Sad but true.

 

[Thern]

I suspect all the main camera producers undervalue the high numbers of enthusiast wildlife photographers and especially birders.

I’m not so sure wether that’s true Frank.
Looking at 500mm-600mm-800mm Superteles I see specialist lenses for?..
Right! our neglected category.
(The 180-400 and 400 are the typical teles for the pro Sportsshooters.)
Then
Nikon released the D500 which is a camera with Wildlife and especially Birding written all over it.
The D850 may be considered like the best Nikon wildlife camera one can buy.
It may be clear I don’t think the current Zeds are targeted at actionshooters, they are very nice versatile allround camera’s for everything but Action and Astro.
The Z7 for statical work, the Z6 more oriented to those willing to shoot video too.
Sure there will be a mirrorless offering for action (thus wildlife) but Nikon has to release a camera nearing preferably surpassing the performance of its contenders (like the R5 and A9II) which will be a hell of a job.
If they choose to release an offering clearly subpar to the former cameras I mentioned they’ll cause more damage than by taking their time to develop their future offering.

 

[BLev65]

Forums like these are echo chambers that reinforce the belief that there are throngs of photographers waiting for the ideal bird-in-flight camera. While there may be many people who enjoy photographing wildlife, most of these people relegate their shooting to vacations &/or workshops. Most are "wildlife photographers" two times a year, but see themselves as serious photographers because they a willing to spend $15,000 on gear, and another $12,000 on trips to photograph fishing bears or gorillas in Rwanda.
Personally, I am a biology teacher and nature photography educator in my region. I shoot twice a week (Saturday & Sunday) and during all of my holiday and summer breaks. There are very few non-professional photographers willing to invest this much of their "non-work" time in the pursuit of nature. Bird in flight photography represents less tha 5% of my time in the field.
While the technology continues to progress, the lack of technology has rarely been a barrier to making unique images of moving wildlife. I've been photographing birds in flight since the Nikon N90 was introduced, and the quality and success rate has increased with every new SLR (film or digital). At this point, the AFc function of the Z cameras are not designed (or not up to spec) with the best autofocusing mirrorless cameras (A9 and R5/R6), but they cost thousands less and will appeal to all of the other photographers that do not belong to this echo chamber.
For those of us here on Steve's forum, we have sought out this place where a wildlife photographer hosts a discussion board. Most of us are likely members of Naturescapes' discussion board, and visit the FM Nature board as well. We are a tiny fraction of the photographic public... a niche market. If you are a bird in flight photographer, and that is all you enjoy, then you are a niche within a niche market, as I want to assure you that your Z6/Z7 mark I can handle just about any "bird on a stick" image. The real photography market consists of parents photographing kids, pets, and vacations. The professional market belongs to portrait, wedding, and journalism.
By our very nature, many wildlife photographers are gear whores... we are in search of gear Nirvana that can do anything. The obsession is so deep that if the camera doesn't think for you, it must be inadequate. The frustration with animal AF that doesn't track a bird's eye, or follow-focus that occasionally drifts to a wingtip instead of head, is enough to make some photographers switch brands.
So while Nikon makes a lot of gear that meets the needs of wildlife and nature photography, they are trying to leverage their brand recognition to appeal to the larger market. Once a vibrant industry, Sports photography is no longer profitable, thus the only real markets left are the average person looking to make a photography a hobby and the few industries where photography continues to be profitable. As such, the priority has been on image quality and accuracy of AF,... not overall AF responsiveness.

Finally, as for marketing... Nikon continues to earn a D or F (teacher talk). They did a fine job creating a buzz about the new cameras but failed again to have real cameras available for people to see, use, and promote. With a deep ambassador program, these photographers should be using the new bodies, cutting videos, and posting images. The absence of these basic promotional pieces suggest that the cameras are not ready for "prime-time" and are still in beta. Nikon would have been better served to have promoted a "coming soon" campaign instead of a "ready to ship in November" campaign. November is less than two weeks away, and I would be super surprised if production models are in the hands of photographers before November becomes December.

 

[EricBowles]

Buffer is significantly improved but FPS was a bit shocking:

Z7II - (Up to 10 fps) Continuous L: Approx. 1 to 5 fps Continuous H: Approx. 5.5 fps (14-bit NEF/RAW: Approx. 5 fps) Continuous H (extended): Approx. 10 fps (14-bit NEF/RAW: Approx. 9 fps) * Maximum frame advance rate as measured by in-house tests.

Z6II - (Up to 14 fps) Continuous L: Approx. 1 to 5 fps Continuous H: Approx. 5.5 fps Continuous H (extended): Approx. 14 fps (14-bit NEF/RAW: Approx. 10 fps) * Maximum frame advance rate as measured by in-house tests.

And there's this strange disclaimer that says the camera can only work on single point AF mode at 14FPS and 10 fps respectively on the Z6II/Z7II.

I expected some improvements in continuous high mode..at least 8FPS on the Z7II and 10 on the Z6II but i guess it is the same as the first gen at 5.5FPS..this is strange!

I think it really boils down to 2 things for action shooters:
1. The EVF improvements and how smooth the slideshow effect is
2. The real world AF-C improvements

Keeping my fingers crossed!

There are some obvious errors in the specs listed on the Nikon site. These specs appear to have simply been copied from an earlier model and not updated. That happens regularly in both the marketing literature and the manual. Copy and paste tends to create errors.

I would not worry too much at this point.

 

[fcotterill]

fyi

 

[Ado Wolf]

@BLev65
I am no professional photographer, but I go into the woods every other day and photograph at least 3 times a week. This includes wildlife (deer, fox, birds), nature (sunrises, sunsets, landscapes,) and Macro (mushrooms, butterflies and other insects). I noticed that since DSLRs became cheaper, more people that were already close to nature (hikers) now also photograph as well. But yes, it remains a niche.

I however do not agree that there is a gear-obsession on a general level.. We like to be updated (information wise), yes, but the statistic on this Forum proves we don't always by the latest gear (see Survey made by Steve). The majority have not yet switched to Mirrorless, and almost 30% don't know whether they will.. I started with a D3200 and used it for a good 6 years before switching to D7500. I will eventually switch to Mirrorless but only when they become a better option than the current D500 / D7500.. So switching only when my current gear doesn't serve me anymore (too old) or the tech-gap becomes significant.

As for your awarded D or F, I believe it is almost a unanimous vote there, sadly. Nikon is catching up.. but not as fast as its loyal clients wish them to be.

Have a nice day and stay healthy (considering the new corona developments). We are back to home office.. this means more time for Wildlife (silver lining).

 

[thelordofthelight]

So....we still won't be able to assign AF-On+AF area modes via custom controls...ridiculous and heights of arrogance from Nikon!

fyi

 

[Steve]

So....we still won't be able to assign AF-On+AF area modes via custom controls...ridiculous and heights of arrogance from Nikon!

Looking at the video, I didn't see an option for it either. Although, the option is usually towards the top and when he scrolls the Fn1 button, it looks like he wasn't completely at the top of that menu. I didn't see it as an option with the AF-On button though either, so I'm not optimistic. I don't understand what that's not an option on these cameras....

 

[BillW]

Looking at the video, I didn't see an option for it either. Although, the option is usually towards the top and when he scrolls the Fn1 button, it looks like he wasn't completely at the top of that menu. I didn't see it as an option with the AF-On button though either, so I'm not optimistic. I don't understand what that's not an option on these cameras....

At 9:25 in the Ricci video, showing custom assignments for the Fn1 button, it shows an option AF/[+] Focus mode/AF-area mode.

Does this suggest an option to use a function button to assign focus area and maybe also start AF?

 

[JANuser]

I’m not so sure wether that’s true Frank.
Looking at 500mm-600mm-800mm Superteles I see specialist lenses for?..
Right! our neglected category.
(The 180-400 and 400 are the typical teles for the pro Sportsshooters.)
Then
Nikon released the D500 which is a camera with Wildlife and especially Birding written all over it.
The D850 may be considered like the best Nikon wildlife camera one can buy.

Nikon designs all of that glass around pro sports shooters, first and foremost. Why do you think all the big glass usually comes out in the times leading up to the Olympics, the World Cup etc. just like the pro bodies? It is very easy for us who enjoy wildlife shooting to think everything is about us, but Nikon has far bigger targets. Most of that big glass is purchased by print media, independent sports shooters, and paparazzi. Is wildlife shooting getting to be a larger segment? Yes, and that trend will continue, the question is, does Nikon notice?

 

[Steve]

At 9:25 in the Ricci video, showing custom assignments for the Fn1 button, it shows an option AF/[+] Focus mode/AF-area mode.

Does this suggest an option to use a function button to assign focus area and maybe also start AF?

That's already in the Z6/7. It allows you to assign a button for changing both the AF area and AF mode using the command dials. However, it doesn't allow you to assign a specific AF area mode to a specific button like you can on the D5/6, D850 and D500. That's what missing.

 

[BillW]

That's already in the Z6/7. It allows you to assign a button for changing both the AF area and AF mode using the command dials. However, it doesn't allow you to assign a specific AF area mode to a specific button like you can on the D5/6, D850 and D500. That's what missing.

Thanks. I was hoping it was new. The button plus dial turn is not ideal.

 

[BillW]

I have particularly wanted 3 things in a new Z7II and Z6II -- (i) faster and better auto-focus acquisition and tracking, on par with the D500/D850; (ii) a more real time view in the EVF when shooting in high extended mode (as opposed to the current disorienting slideshow view) and (iii) the ability to change auto-focus modes/areas by a single button press, again like the D500/D850. I would have thought that (iii) would be the easiest change to make -- I would not think it would require more processing power and could even be added to the current Z7 and Z6 by firmware update. (I'm not an engineer, so maybe I'm wrong about some of that.)

The comments to Ricci's video contain one noting a desire for "af-area mode+af on like a D850 has." Ricci's response "Yeh a lot of people as [sic] requested that ! Sadly not there yet."

Strange decision by Nikon. Hope that Ricci's reference to "yet" offers hope it may come later. Maybe even by December release? Not sure if Ricci is still using a pre-production model without the final release firmware.

If they did all three of the items I'd like to see, I'd upgrade my Z7 and Z6 to the new II versions. Even (i) and (ii) might be enough if someone like Steve can confirm a material improvement with a productions model in hand. But no plan to pre-order without seeing that material improvements are there. Looking forward to Steve's comments once he gets the new models.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Steve, I and a few others asked Ricci on the comments and he confirmed that the feature isn't included on the Zs this time too.

Looking at the video, I didn't see an option for it either. Although, the option is usually towards the top and when he scrolls the Fn1 button, it looks like he wasn't completely at the top of that menu. I didn't see it as an option with the AF-On button though either, so I'm not optimistic. I don't understand what that's not an option on these cameras....

 

[fcotterill]

Agree fully with BillW and all other . Nikon's failure on this feature is a Showstopper IMO for many potential buyers, and notably upgraders already invested in Nikon. It is inexcusable - and they are persisting in their aloofness and what seems to be stone-age strategizing. If true, this is their latest easily avoidable disconnect. As for ignoring requests, well Nikon has had the key code for 5+ years. It is a simple assignment to expand the options in the camera's software. It seems the management preserves a rigid dogmatic view of a strict hierarchy of Models from Pro down to Hobbyist / Traveler ? Beginner etc - read Pro versus Rabble.

This status quo we customers must respect because "Nikon knows best' OR go elsewhere, and declining market share suggests indeed they do go elsewhere.
I think much of our frustration is Nikon engineering is industry-leading versus the company's marketing and responding to customer feedback. This maintains a tradition of disastrous, and it seems to be worsening. Why they slip up on too many obvious fixable "leftouts"/ silly cost-cutting of features. I've come to realize a Key Rule of Haptics should be "The more high performance hardware built into the camera; the more comprehensively Custom settings should maximize said Camera's options to leverage the hardware for particular imaging demands."

The only tentative positives are:
#1 AF tracking and acquisition etc, also the EVF usability has improved significantly in the Z II cameras.
#2 AFOn+AF Mode is implemented because the video from Ricci was a Prototype and final production has implemented this Custom Setting (!)

If # 1 + #2 = TRUE, Then Happy Days IF If # 1 = TRUE #2 = FALSE ....well the cameras will even more handicapped [Key Rule of Haptics applies] . I suspect reality could be the latter. This means my potential Z II purchase has to wait for Firmware or the D880 - most likely it's to be a Used D5 as 2nd camera.

I have particularly wanted 3 things in a new Z7II and Z6II -- (i) faster and better auto-focus acquisition and tracking, on par with the D500/D850; (ii) a more real time view in the EVF when shooting in high extended mode (as opposed to the current disorienting slideshow view) and (iii) the ability to change auto-focus modes/areas by a single button press, again like the D500/D850. I would have thought that (iii) would be the easiest change to make -- I would not think it would require more processing power and could even be added to the current Z7 and Z6 by firmware update. (I'm not an engineer, so maybe I'm wrong about some of that.)

The comments to Ricci's video contain one noting a desire for "af-area mode+af on like a D850 has." Ricci's response "Yeh a lot of people as [sic] requested that ! Sadly not there yet."

Strange decision by Nikon. Hope that Ricci's reference to "yet" offers hope it may come later. Maybe even by December release? Not sure if Ricci is still using a pre-production model without the final release firmware.

If they did all three of the items I'd like to see, I'd upgrade my Z7 and Z6 to the new II versions. Even (i) and (ii) might be enough if someone like Steve can confirm a material improvement with a productions model in hand. But no plan to pre-order without seeing that material improvements are there. Looking forward to Steve's comments once he gets the new models.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Quite frankly, most of us Nikon shooters never expected any miracle from Nikon with their 2nd Gen Z bodies and that's despite seeing competitors launching cameras like A7R4 and Canon R5/6 etc. No 8K, No blackout free shooting experience, No bird eye/head /feather AF and bla bla... The expectations were very reasonable - Solid AF-C performance, better EVF performance with minimal blackout /less stutter and the most sought after feature to assign AF-on+AF area mode....we never asked for the moon and yet they had to disappoint us with such basic stuff and not even addressing some of the "low-hanging fruits"....Which makes me think maybe the dual processors are more capable to handle even higher FPS and more features and functionalities and they purposefully crippled it..

 

[thelordofthelight]

The optimistic Nikon loyalist in me is actually thinking of an option #3 where one of the AF-Area modes is so state of the art that there is no need for us to even use different AF area modes for a given use case (lets say BIF or action). Maybe they added that extra processor to only make the AF top notch, we'll see

The only tentative positives are: #1 AF tracking and acquisition etc, also the EVF usability has improved significantly in the Z II cameras. #2 AFOn+AF Mode is implemented because the video from Ricci was a Prototype and final production has implemented this Custom Setting (!)

If # 1 + #2 = TRUE, Then Happy Days IF If # 1 = TRUE #2 = FALSE ....well the cameras will even more handicapped [Key Rule of Haptics applies] . I suspect reality could be the latter. This means my potential Z II purchase has to wait for Firmware or the D880 - most likely it's to be a Used D5 as 2nd camera.

 

[Steve]

Remember, Nikon's not satisfied until you're not satisfied

 

[gordon_g]

Looking more and more likely that I’ll be going the d850 route... i Didn’t realize you could not program a AF mode or area via a button... that‘s really dumb Nikon.