Z7ii vs. Z9/8 Image Quality

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JoelKlein

JoelKlein

Well-known member
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Good morning.
Should I sell the Z7ii or keep it?

Before I’m selling the Z7ii, I want to double check that my landscape shots that make it to wall prints will be just as good - from a perfectionist point, taken with a Z9/8 sensor, with the same lens of course.

I know I’m using the Z9 in studio and very happy with the IQ with controlled lighting. Outdoors could present itself with difficult conditions that requires maximum dynamic range.

The new Z8 supposedly uses the same Z9 sensor. Before I sell it, I wanted to double check.

Thanks.
 
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Back when the Z9 came out the tests showed a slight advantage to the Z7ii sensor for dynamic range. It's the kind of difference that would be very hard to notice in an actual image though. From a pure landscape perspective I expect the Z7ii to be a very slightly better camera than a Z8 due to the lighter weight and better dynamic range. From an all-rounder perspective which includes wildlife or action then the Z8 will be a far better choice. I think the decision should come down to your use case.
 
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image QUALITY is probably not the reason to change. af performance and the other features are much more of a reason. that said, personally i'd (and am) switch just to have the same system. switching back and forth between the z9 and z6ii is not seamless for me because you have to re-adjust to the different systems and when i'm shooting action, that's painful
 
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John Navitsky said:
image QUALITY is probably not the reason to change. af performance and the other features are much more of a reason. that said, personally i'd (and am) switch just to have the same system. switching back and forth between the z9 and z6ii is not seamless for me because you have to re-adjust to the different systems and when i'm shooting action, that's painful
Click to expand...
It’s beyond painful…it makes my brain lock up and reboot…and then there is the significant difference in AF…which is why my preorder is in. Keep/sell the Z7II is still under…dynamic observation.
 
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yep, mine as well. i'm going to trade in the z6ii. as much as i like having a lower mp camera, i have to remind myself that i can't bring myself to use it due to the discongruity of the user interfaces. maybe i'll pick up a z6iii down the road if they do that but in the mean time, usability trumps theoretical
 
dabhand16 said:
@JoelKlein

I've red that any stacked sensor will have worse dynamic range than a non stacked sensor.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've seen that too. A price you pay for speed. Not much of a difference though. The non stacked 45 mp R5 is max 11.85 while the 45 mp z9 is 11.3 and the A1 is 11.31. I don't think we're noticing that half stop, and that's at base ISO.
 
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The manufacturers have us where they want: wishing to replace a perfect camera by an even more perfect camera and consequently spending our money. In the course of time I moved from a Nikon D5100 tot a D7200 to a D850. Of course the pictures taken with the D850 are technically better than the ones taken with its predecessors. However, when I look at my own photographs and I try to select some outstanding ones, I find that composition and subject matter are far more decisive than the technical aspects of the camera's. But I suppose this is an old story, and meanwhile let's enjoy playing with our toys.
 
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Miracle Photography did not order a Z8.

My wife looked at the specs, read what Steve and others were saying about the Z8 and with action photography not her thing and Z8 decided to go another way for her next camera body.

Here issue with the Z8 was size and weight still bigger and heavier than her Z6II and even more than her Z50.

Z6II is the biggest camera body she is willing to use and she had me take the grip off.

She decided to have me trade in the Z6II, on Nikon's trade in program for a Z7II so she can use the Z7II as I do my Z9's as an FX camera with a DX built in.

The Z7II addition to Miracle Photography will be here tomorrow. I will bet she will enjoy it with the Z400 f/4.5 for birds and the Tamron z mount 70-300 for generic walking around. I am encouraging her to take out the Z24-120 f/4 and play with the flowers and bugs she likes to shoot using it's near macro capabilities.

I like the beefier size and feel of the Z9, balance with the Z800 pf and use the built in GPS and map module in Light Room Classic multiple times a week. So happy now with my 2 Z9's so no Z8 ordered.,
 
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JoelKlein said:
Good morning.
Should I sell the Z7ii or keep it?

Before I’m selling the Z7ii, I want to double check that my landscape shots that make it to wall prints will be just as good - from a perfectionist point, taken with a Z9/8 sensor, with the same lens of course.

I know I’m using the Z9 in studio and very happy with the IQ with controlled lighting. Outdoors could present itself with difficult conditions that requires maximum dynamic range.

The new Z8 supposedly uses the same Z9 sensor. Before I sell it, I wanted to double check.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
The D850 at 64 ISO for landscape has a very slight edge over mirror less, Z9, therefore Z8, Z7II, Z6II. for colour or dynamic range as we call it.
Can the average person tell the difference, that depends on, the glass you use, the screen, the graphics card, or printer, its not easy to pick.
Is it a big enough difference to worry about........it depends on how much one pixel peeps.

I can use my Z9 with the amazing 50mm 1.8s versus the D850 with the 85mm 1.8 G, shoot at exactly* the same settings to start with, in this case F2.8, then F5.6, *with only a slight adjustment for the 85mm 1.4 G with the EV, the images on a good screen with a high end graphics card revealed no real difference in detail, sharpness, or colour, in the center.
The 50mm 1.8 S revealed slightly better sharpness in the outer edges/corners, the 85mm 1.4 G revealed a much nicer bokah as did the 35mm 1.4 G. ie: nicer than the Z50mm 1.8s.

Bring in the 70-200 FL, the Z9 stunning, then on the D850 stunning again identical settings except a notch on the D850 EV that brought the images so close in line.
In a blind no identification A B view with some friends, 3 in 5 had unknowingly picked the D850 images, but with with ridiculous agonizing long inspection, it got silly LOL.
So forget the lab tests often not visible by the naked eye other than a test chart LOL.

Using high end Z glass could swing benefits the other way.

Conclusion, while not absolutely definitive, with to many variables such as using optimal alternative settings to bring out the differences more, i would say you could throw a blanket over all the images.

So sell your Z7II and get your Z8 LOL if that is the intent.
I did this for some club members i thought i would share it with you as well.
The take away in all this is, apples to apples in a lab is fine but adjusting or optimizing a little here and there with settings made image results virtually indistinguishable well almost.

Hence We only ever really use time light and speed combinations since the beginning of time LOL.

Only an opinion
 
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Member's gallery
JoelKlein said:
Good morning.
Should I sell the Z7ii or keep it?

Before I’m selling the Z7ii, I want to double check that my landscape shots that make it to wall prints will be just as good - from a perfectionist point, taken with a Z9/8 sensor, with the same lens of course.

I know I’m using the Z9 in studio and very happy with the IQ with controlled lighting. Outdoors could present itself with difficult conditions that requires maximum dynamic range.

The new Z8 supposedly uses the same Z9 sensor. Before I sell it, I wanted to double check.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If I was shooting landscapes my question would be: Why the hell do I want to shoot Nikon when you could shoot medium format Fuji for the same price?
 
Member's gallery
O said:
The D850 at 64 ISO for landscape has a very slight edge over mirror less, Z9, therefore Z8, Z7II, Z6II. for colour or dynamic range as we call it.
Can the average person tell the difference, that depends on, the glass you use, the screen, the graphics card, or printer, its not easy to pick.
Is it a big enough difference to worry about........it depends on how much one pixel peeps.

I can use my Z9 with the amazing 50mm 1.8s versus the D850 with the 85mm 1.8 G, shoot at exactly* the same settings to start with, in this case F2.8, then F5.6, *with only a slight adjustment for the 85mm 1.4 G with the EV, the images on a good screen with a high end graphics card revealed no real difference in detail, sharpness, or colour, in the center.
The 50mm 1.8 S revealed slightly better sharpness in the outer edges/corners, the 85mm 1.4 G revealed a much nicer bokah as did the 35mm 1.4 G. ie: nicer than the Z50mm 1.8s.

Bring in the 70-200 FL, the Z9 stunning, then on the D850 stunning again identical settings except a notch on the D850 EV that brought the images so close in line.
In a blind no identification A B view with some friends, 3 in 5 had unknowingly picked the D850 images, but with with ridiculous agonizing long inspection, it got silly LOL.
So forget the lab tests often not visible by the naked eye other than a test chart LOL.

Using high end Z glass could swing benefits the other way.

Conclusion, while not absolutely definitive, with to many variables such as using optimal alternative settings to bring out the differences more, i would say you could throw a blanket over all the images.

So sell your Z7II and get your Z8 LOL if that is the intent.
I did this for some club members i thought i would share it with you as well.
The take away in all this is, apples to apples in a lab is fine but adjusting or optimizing a little here and there with settings made image results virtually indistinguishable well almost.

Hence We only ever really use time light and speed combinations since the beginning of time LOL.

Only an opinion
Click to expand...
They were all at 64 ISO.

The Z7II for landscape has ever such a slight edge over the Z9 consequently the Z8, its marginal but its there at base ISO.
The glass used really is more important than many bodies.
I use Ziess a lot, however, the Nikon Z glass is excellent edge to edge in cases.
Yes Medium format makes sense however each lens is not cheap.

Only an opinion
 
Member's gallery
JoelKlein said:
Good morning.
Should I sell the Z7ii or keep it?

Before I’m selling the Z7ii, I want to double check that my landscape shots that make it to wall prints will be just as good - from a perfectionist point, taken with a Z9/8 sensor, with the same lens of course.

I know I’m using the Z9 in studio and very happy with the IQ with controlled lighting. Outdoors could present itself with difficult conditions that requires maximum dynamic range.

The new Z8 supposedly uses the same Z9 sensor. Before I sell it, I wanted to double check.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Below are some mates

1) Matt has several galleries right in the high end in the city centre of Sydney, he prints on rag water colour paper metals canvas etc to lots of sizes, stunning city, sea, landscapes, wild life, he used MF for a long while until the D850 came out, he feels the D850 with just a 24-70 2.8 is just so so close to MF its his go to setup, personally i have to agree with him, remember 90% of what you get comes from the person behind the eye piece.

https://mattpearson.com.au/pages/artist

Go to Shop link and check out some images, on the web there low res files of course, but in his gallery the images are stunning

https://mattpearson.com.au/pages/prints-frames#

Again his go to camera and lens is D850 with a 24-70 2.8 or 70-200 2.8, he uses it more than MF purely based on results meeting his needs fully and the little difference in results.

I have a couple of other mates that do nature with some wild life and a lot of out back land and air scape works, they use the D850 24-70 2.8, and for video they use a Z9, with the Z9 they are pulling 30mb stills in post form video files, to die for, how, is beyond me, they sold of all their MF gear.

Now that's not saying anything bad about MF as its absolutely brilliant, but remember these mates are making documentaries, photos above all a full time professional living, the gear they use are simply tools, what makes the end result is how they use these tools combined with artistic creativeness.

How they process or present the work be it on rag paper or metal etc etc makes a profound difference.


2) Here is Mieke, she uses a D800 D810 with a 100mm F2 manual focus Ziess macro set at infinity and she photographs almost everything and doesn't need to worry about focus as every thing is in focus all the time. Her other lens is a 24-70 2.8. Check out her aerials or lake air SA. She has international following and awards.

https://alpinelight.com.au/store/

She has recently got a Z7 and a Z50mm 1.2, she likes it very much, but her go to lens for Arial landscapes and so much other work is the Ziess as the 100mm F2 macro

a) because of the focal range is preferred,
b) above all the fact she can set it at infinity making everything in focus when she is shooting out of a plane. I have the same lens and do even some sports action with it as well as para gliders hand held on my D3X with incredible detail and contrast.

We enjoy having her come along to our club each year to do presentations.

About Mieke she is a specialist landscape and aerial photographer based in the township of Bright in Victoria. There is nothing more she enjoys than photographing vast, wild and beautiful natural places either from the ground or in a more abstract form from helicopters and light planes.

Mieke was the first Australian and first female to win the prestigious Epson International Pano Awards in 2019 with three of her abstract aerials, and that same year, she was also named Victorian Landscape Photographer of the Year. Mieke is a Grand Master with the Australian Photographic Society (APS), and last year, she received her Master with Distinction from the New Zealand Institute of Professional Photography (NZIPP). Mieke was also named 2021 NZIPP International Photographer of the Year and 2022 NZIPP Australian Landscape (in-camera) Photographer of the Year.
Mieke's most exciting achievement to date is being awarded the Maitre de la Fédération Internationale de l'Art Photographique (MFIAP) Distinction with FIAP (the International Federation of Art Photography).

You see for me its not always about the gear, i see so often photographers with simple older gear getting far better outcomes than some people with the latest on point expensive exotic equipment.

I never judge a camera or lens from the back LCD screen.

How to make almost all lenses and camera's seem alike in image results, the secret is............................ LIGHT

Hope this helps.

Only an opinion
 
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Member's gallery
JoelKlein said:
Good morning.
Should I sell the Z7ii or keep it?

Before I’m selling the Z7ii, I want to double check that my landscape shots that make it to wall prints will be just as good - from a perfectionist point, taken with a Z9/8 sensor, with the same lens of course.

I know I’m using the Z9 in studio and very happy with the IQ with controlled lighting. Outdoors could present itself with difficult conditions that requires maximum dynamic range.

The new Z8 supposedly uses the same Z9 sensor. Before I sell it, I wanted to double check.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
The more speed you want you generally need to throw out a little dynamic range.

The higher performance you want with ISO you generally have to trow out a little dynamic range.

As with wild life sports action photography it usually demands speed and ISO performance so the little compromise is best placed at the very base ISO level.

Modern technology has narrowed the margin for compromise, hence while the D850 Z7II has the edge at base iso the faster higher iso camera are perfoming better and it is getting harder to pick given the new technology.

That said in the past iso below default 200 was interpolated, today default iso is 64, my feeling is its still interpolated, they have just gotten better at doing it LOL.

I feel there are differences but they are subtle, again where things shine depends greatly on the lens and light.

A super fast camera is not one i would prefer for landscapes or long exposure sunrises.

That said telling the difference is just harder than before.

Only an opinion
 
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Member's gallery
O said:
Below are some mates

1) Matt has several galleries right in the high end in the city centre of Sydney, he prints on rag water colour paper metals canvas etc to lots of sizes, stunning city, sea, landscapes, wild life, he used MF for a long while until the D850 came out, he feels the D850 with just a 24-70 2.8 is just so so close to MF its his go to setup, personally i have to agree with him, remember 90% of what you get comes from the person behind the eye piece.

https://mattpearson.com.au/pages/artist

Go to Shop link and check out some images, on the web there low res files of course, but in his gallery the images are stunning

https://mattpearson.com.au/pages/prints-frames#

Again his go to camera and lens is D850 with a 24-70 2.8 or 70-200 2.8, he uses it more than MF purely based on results meeting his needs fully and the little difference in results.

I have a couple of other mates that do nature with some wild life and a lot of out back land and air scape works, they use the D850 24-70 2.8, and for video they use a Z9, with the Z9 they are pulling 30mb stills to die for, how, is beyond me, they sold of all their MF gear.

Now that's not saying anything bad about MF as its absolutely brilliant, but remember these mates are making documentaries, photos above all a full time professional living, the gear they use are simply tools, what makes the end result is how they use these tools combined with artistic creativeness.

How they process or present the work be it on rag paper or metal etc etc makes a profound difference.


2) Here is Mieke, she uses a D800 D810 with a 100mm F2 manual focus Ziess macro set at infinity and she photographs almost everything and doesn't need to worry about focus as every thing is in focus all the time. Her other lens is a 24-70 2.8. Check out her aerials or lake air SA. She has international following and awards.

https://alpinelight.com.au/store/

She has recently got a Z7 and a Z50mm 1.2, she likes it very much, but her go to lens for Arial landscapes and so much other work is the Ziess as the 100mm F2 macro

a) because of the focal range is preferred,
b) above all the fact she can set it at infinity making everything in focus when she is shooting out of a plane. I have the same lens and do even some sports action with it as well as para gliders hand held on my D3X with incredible detail and contrast.

We enjoy having her come along to our club each year to do presentations.

About Mieke she is a specialist landscape and aerial photographer based in the township of Bright in Victoria. There is nothing more she enjoys than photographing vast, wild and beautiful natural places either from the ground or in a more abstract form from helicopters and light planes.

Mieke was the first Australian and first female to win the prestigious Epson International Pano Awards in 2019 with three of her abstract aerials, and that same year, she was also named Victorian Landscape Photographer of the Year. Mieke is a Grand Master with the Australian Photographic Society (APS), and last year, she received her Master with Distinction from the New Zealand Institute of Professional Photography (NZIPP). Mieke was also named 2021 NZIPP International Photographer of the Year and 2022 NZIPP Australian Landscape (in-camera) Photographer of the Year.
Mieke's most exciting achievement to date is being awarded the Maitre de la Fédération Internationale de l'Art Photographique (MFIAP) Distinction with FIAP (the International Federation of Art Photography).

You see for me its not always about the gear, i see so often photographers with simple older gear getting far better outcomes than some people with the latest on point expensive exotic equipment.

I never judge a camera or lens from the back LCD screen.

How to make almost all lenses and camera's seem alike in image results, the secret is............................ LIGHT

Hope this helps.

Only an opinion
Click to expand...
I don’t think there is enough attention paid to the artistic creativity of the photographer. Collecting photographic gear is something we seem happier discussing because it is the most identifiable part of the process. What gear we have matters. That’s OK, however in a forum like this. There is a lot to work out.
In reality I think every photographer knows that the gear itself is nothing like as important as the way we use it and how we respond to our opportunities.
I think we keep striving to perfect our collection of camera bodies and lenses because we have all found ourselves in photographic situations where we can see the “potential” of an opportunity but know that we can’t quite get it with the camera we currently own. This inevitably leads to a new piece of kit to do the job. We spend time on honing our skills with the new gear and in the process discover that it’s a lot of fun striving for a goal. Then we think, what if I got an even longer/wider/faster/smarter bit of kit?
I remember discovering for the first time what a 70-200 F2.8 lens could do for me. Yep. That subject isolation, bokeh and speed of focussing. After that sort of realisation, it’s really hard to stop wondering what else would be great. 😋😋😎
 
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