sid_19911991
Well-known member
The words "could be an issue" does not imply that inferences are drawn.
It is a mere discussion, nothing more.
I finding it amusing when people get tribalistic.
Nuance is something people don't seem to get these days.
Z9 has way more chroma noise than Z7. (Matt Granger test video)
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The words "could be an issue" does not imply that inferences are drawn.
It is a mere discussion, nothing more.
I finding it amusing when people get tribalistic.
Nuance is something people don't seem to get these days.
fcotterill
Well-known member
The D6 has the D6 sensor, which is effectively ISOless above ISO 2500. Shooting lower ISOs has less tolerance to recover shadows. 5+ years of intensive usage confirms the images out of these sensors are excellent - given the camera in the right hands, and post processing: as Steve Perry and Brad Hill have confirmed beyond doubt. My D5 is one of my greatly valued investments and it will keep working, however the Z6 sensor also in Z6 II and D780 has excellent overall IQ as the lab comparisons confirm.
As for the uncertainties about IQ out of the Z9 stacked sensor we wait for independent tests, and not least images been processed with the final in situ firmware.
As for the uncertainties about IQ out of the Z9 stacked sensor we wait for independent tests, and not least images been processed with the final in situ firmware.
sid_19911991
Well-known member
Yes, I agree with you, the colours/dynamic range on the D5 & D6 at lower ISOs is not great.
That's my main issue with it.
Apart from that I am sure it is an excellent camera. I have seen fantastic pics taken on them.
My expectations are that a flagship camera should do most things right.
It should not sacrifice image quality at lower ISOs.
Even at higher ISOs when I underexposed some images in dull light by mistake I wasn't able to push it as much as I would have liked to.
I am sure, we will get better image quality on flagship cameras in a few years with technology improving.
High megapixel on a high FPS flagship camera didn't exist previously now it does.
IMO, it is ok to expect better image quality from high FPS flagship cameras too.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Well, 1-1.5 stops less DR than the industry leaders ie D850 and Z7 is no problem IME. The combination of very reliable AF and low light performance at one's fingertips with custom settings has seen the D5 capture me a string of keepers, in fact images I rate as 'lifers'.
I would agree Nikon could have considered a Z6 sensor in the D6 (perhaps they did who knows)...... but time has moved onward. And as with the D5's out in the wild, the D6 works even better for many pros in wildlife, including challenging conditions.
A useful snippet of advice by Thom H in his review (more details in his D5 ebook) is dial in +0.3EV, which I have set in Photo Shooting menu, and strive for ETTR. This works AND anyways is only relevant < ISO 800, where intermediate settings are best avoided. But always ETTR. Far far more critical is to avoid cropping!
I would agree Nikon could have considered a Z6 sensor in the D6 (perhaps they did who knows)...... but time has moved onward. And as with the D5's out in the wild, the D6 works even better for many pros in wildlife, including challenging conditions.
A useful snippet of advice by Thom H in his review (more details in his D5 ebook) is dial in +0.3EV, which I have set in Photo Shooting menu, and strive for ETTR. This works AND anyways is only relevant < ISO 800, where intermediate settings are best avoided. But always ETTR. Far far more critical is to avoid cropping!
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Roy
Well-known member
Matt Granger is a good photographer but not a technical one. I'm waiting to see for myself about stacked sensors...
sid_19911991
Well-known member
sid_19911991
Well-known member
Yup, D6 has an excellent AF system.
So this one time, I rented a D6 for a safari. A tiger sprung out of nowhere & chased a few deers amidst the shrubs.
I was the "only one" who managed to get the tiger in focus with the D6 & 500 pf.
The others in the Jeep used Sony A7R IV, Nikon D850, Nikon D500, Canon 90 D.
....
D6 500 Pf 1/1000 ISO 8000 f5.6
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Hmmm -0.3 on the D6 huh. That's a nice tip. This is opposite to my D500 where I usually shoot -0.3 EV as it tends to blow up the specular highlights easily.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Great Capture! It is precisely such sudden events that underscore why I'm so militant about minimal custom settings in a modern camera, and strongly advise wildlife photographers to steer clear of models that companies resist upgrading (likely only firmware fixes).
In mid tone scenes, to minimize noise out of D5 images (i.e not underexpose shadows) dial in +0.3 up to 1/2 stop more light. To quote Thom Hogan's D5 ebook: if you ".... shoot a lot of sports with helmets and other highly reflective objects under lights with my D5. For those things, I tend to not dial in compensation. But for things like landscapes that I’m shooting only in raw, I tend to leave my D5 set on +0.3 or +0.5EV Exposure Compensation."
The D6 probably works similarly (also Custom Menu, b7), with the D5 sensor, unless the EXPEED6 has some secret sauce. Having re-visiting this setting, my D5 is rest to +0.5 and first tests show its even better than with +0.3. This is with mid tone scenes as well as partially high contrast - birds against bright clear sky.
In mid tone scenes, to minimize noise out of D5 images (i.e not underexpose shadows) dial in +0.3 up to 1/2 stop more light. To quote Thom Hogan's D5 ebook: if you ".... shoot a lot of sports with helmets and other highly reflective objects under lights with my D5. For those things, I tend to not dial in compensation. But for things like landscapes that I’m shooting only in raw, I tend to leave my D5 set on +0.3 or +0.5EV Exposure Compensation."
The D6 probably works similarly (also Custom Menu, b7), with the D5 sensor, unless the EXPEED6 has some secret sauce. Having re-visiting this setting, my D5 is rest to +0.5 and first tests show its even better than with +0.3. This is with mid tone scenes as well as partially high contrast - birds against bright clear sky.
sid_19911991
Well-known member
Dom
Well-known member
hmm, the video was removed? too bad, i wanted to see that.
Sam H
New member
arbitrage
Well-known member
I have the files downloaded so will find some time today to look at them further in not only LR but also Nikon’s software. The biggest issue is that the Z9 images were underexposed 2/3 stop from z7II. Therefore if I raise brightness on Z9 say 6400 ISO shot I’m actually looking at ISO 10,000 for the Z9 versus 6400 on Z7II.
Did Granger remove the file download from his website also?
Did Granger remove the file download from his website also?
I didn't see that. Thanks for posting. Makes sense.
fcotterill
Well-known member
As we know a digital image is data, in the form of the encoded electronic signals captured and converted in the Bayer sensor (demosaicked) and transferred within-camera into storage media. So there's a set sequence of post processing performed by the sensor-processor.
Compression of the image is the only part of this process, the photographer has any direct control over ie to choose between lossless RAW, or different formats. They range in file size from the increasing compressions of RAW to jpg and its modes. Also TIF.
A couple of articles, one arguing to try and archive as much of one's images as is possible..... to minimize losses
bythom.com
The second, earlier in the year, authored by electronics engineers acknowledges Nikon for data etc. This explains how the modern JPG XS algorithm works.... the workflow of algorithms encoded that execute on of the options for in-camera processing.... heavy terminology and some mathematics but the overall message is this is one example of how modern software maintains surprisingly high image quality, yet with efficient compression.
ieeexplore.ieee.org
Compression of the image is the only part of this process, the photographer has any direct control over ie to choose between lossless RAW, or different formats. They range in file size from the increasing compressions of RAW to jpg and its modes. Also TIF.
A couple of articles, one arguing to try and archive as much of one's images as is possible..... to minimize losses
Data: The Short Story | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan
Collect optimal data, process data optimally
The second, earlier in the year, authored by electronics engineers acknowledges Nikon for data etc. This explains how the modern JPG XS algorithm works.... the workflow of algorithms encoded that execute on of the options for in-camera processing.... heavy terminology and some mathematics but the overall message is this is one example of how modern software maintains surprisingly high image quality, yet with efficient compression.
Bayer CFA Pattern Compression With JPEG XS
While traditional image compression algorithms take a full three-component color representation of an image as input, capturing of such images is done in many applications with Bayer CFA pattern sensors that provide only a single color information per sensor element and position. In order to...
ieeexplore.ieee.org
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thelordofthelight
Well-known member
@arbitrage any luck with reviewing these files Geoff? I wanted to download those Raw files but Matt has already taken them off from his website.
peter wolf
Member
I have had severe noise problems and poor file quality in general with the Z9, Until I changed one setting in Lightroom. and now they are exactly what I was hoping for. lightroom-profile-sharpening-noise-reduction-and-lens-profile-defaults-for-nikon-z9 this article has changed everything.
in my Lightroom preferences panel accessed through, lightroom classic menu, preferences, then presets tab. I changed the (under global drop down box) from adobe default to camera settings and my files now look like Nikon loveliness instead of cheap camera noise fest. I hope this helps someone as well as myself.
it also made a huge difference when I started to use the "set picture control" items in the I menu. happy shooting
in my Lightroom preferences panel accessed through, lightroom classic menu, preferences, then presets tab. I changed the (under global drop down box) from adobe default to camera settings and my files now look like Nikon loveliness instead of cheap camera noise fest. I hope this helps someone as well as myself.
it also made a huge difference when I started to use the "set picture control" items in the I menu. happy shooting
JoPoV
Active member
I never had to use flicker reduction.
I know what it's for, but would like to know how and why it lower IQ ?
Thanx.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i don’t think flicker reduction itself reduces quality; it’s more that if the lighting is flickering, then the camera is trying to time the image between the flickers, and it may or may not be possible to get enough non flickering light between the flickers to get the exposure you want. it’s also possible the lighting may be altered in terms of color rendition as it starts or shuts down during the flicker. basically the camera is going to do it’s best it nullify the impact of the flicker, but how well it works will depend on the camera and it may or may not be possible to get a good image depending on the lighting.
in the case of the a1, i saw color and exposure differences in alternating frames. each frame in itself could be corrected, ut it was impacted. there was also some weird color noise blotchiness at the very extremes. this is not a knock on that camera, lighting flicker can be a difficult thing to deal with and some cameras don’t even have a mode that tries to deal with it. (note results vary based on your exposure settings and the specific lights)
most modern led lighting flickers, so you should have this feature enabled for any indoor shooting. i just lave mine on alway, it shouldn’t cause problems if there is no flicker
That's a cool article. Especially the table how lightroom handles the camera settings with the sliders. If I understand one could have dialed all those settings using the Lightroom sliders even if the camera wasn't set for it, but it is a timesaver to have Lightroom pick up the settings, which can then be tweaked with the sliders.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
right, i think sometimes people miss that these are just profiles and you should be able to get to the same endpoint, regardless