Z9 Performance with Existing Glass

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thelordofthelight said:
And a timely article by Thom on this topic:

Quoted from the below link:

" Now, it may be that some feature of some model might help you get past your problem (;~). Many who've picked up Sony mirrorless cameras and set them to all-automatic focus are getting better results than they got with the autofocus system they didn't bother to learn on their DSLR, so they proclaim Sony as a clear winner. This isn't performance, per se, but a feature controlling performance. With a little study, I get perfectly fine focus results with every full frame camera these days, DSLR or mirrorless. Indeed, in most cases—even on the Sony models—my controlled focus produces better results than Sony's all automatic modes. I'm comfortable with taking the time to produce a better result, some of you aren't. But at the same time I'm not sure that today Sony's all automatic is particularly better than Canon's or Nikon's: you have to get into nuance to distinguish them is my contention. "

Why Choose Brand A over Brand B? | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

bythom.com bythom.com
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I wouldn't listen to that. Learn your system but don't believe he will be getting consistently better results with Nikon's slow (by comparison) AF system. I'd listen to Steve Perry who has already explained missed shots vs Sony in Costa Rica.
 
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I think it really depends on how you define 'better results'....A1 will certainly yield more keepers than a D6 considering the difference in FPS but i don't think the AF system makes that big a difference particularly if you are someone who doesn't rely on auto tracking modes...I'd listen to Steve Perry as well as Thom Hogan ;-)

Hut said:
I wouldn't listen to that. Learn your system but don't believe he will be getting consistently better results with Nikon's slow (by comparison) AF system. I'd listen to Steve Perry who has already explained missed shots vs Sony in Costa Rica.
Click to expand...
 
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thelordofthelight said:
I think it really depends on how you define 'better results'....A1 will certainly yield more keepers than a D6 considering the difference in FPS but i don't think the AF system makes that big a difference particularly if you are someone who doesn't rely on auto tracking modes...I'd listen to Steve Perry as well as Thom Hogan ;-)
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Respectfully I’ve got to ask…have you actually used an a1 and invested time to see it’s real capabilities? I have and I’ve spent decades with Nikon going back to the F5 and it’s a fact the a1 has the most powerful af system ever developed in a camera. I see articles like the one you quoted as click bait. I suspect when Steve releases his review of the a1 he won’t be saying what Thom said. Is the a1 or any other camera perfect? Nope but it’s gotten closer to than any camera in the past has.
 
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I expected this question....Nope, i haven't used the A1 nor have i used the D6...but Thom Hogan has used both side by side and i was only referring to what i read from his site...now if i may ask you, respectfully....Have you ever used a D6 and done a side by side comparison with the A1? If not how are you so confident the AF system is that significantly better than a D6? Like i said, there is zero doubt the A1's AF is one of the best or even better in some regards compared to the D6 but all i am saying is it may not be that big a difference...thats what Thom Hogan says...
 
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thelordofthelight said:
I expected this question....Nope, i haven't used the A1 nor have i used the D6...but Thom Hogan has used both side by side and i was only referring to what i read from his site...now if i may ask you, respectfully....Have you ever used a D6 and done a side by side comparison with the A1? If not how are you so confident the AF system is that significantly better than a D6? Like i said, there is zero doubt the A1's AF is one of the best or even better in some regards compared to the D6 but all i am saying is it may not be that big a difference...thats what Thom Hogan says...
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Matter of fact I have. I’ve also used the D5, D500, D850 and Z6 being the most recent Nikon cameras. Yup the a1 is consistently better in much more ways than just the af.
 
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Can you elaborate that with some facts?

dtibbals said:
Respectfully I’ve got to ask…have you actually used an a1 and invested time to see it’s real capabilities? I have and I’ve spent decades with Nikon going back to the F5 and it’s a fact the a1 has the most powerful af system ever developed in a camera. I see articles like the one you quoted as click bait. I suspect when Steve releases his review of the a1 he won’t be saying what Thom said. Is the a1 or any other camera perfect? Nope but it’s gotten closer to than any camera in the past has.
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dtibbals said:
Matter of fact I have. I’ve also used the D5, D500, D850 and Z6 being the most recent Nikon cameras. Yup the a1 is consistently better in much more ways than just the af.
Click to expand...
 
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thelordofthelight said:
And a timely article by Thom on this topic:

Quoted from the below link:

" Now, it may be that some feature of some model might help you get past your problem (;~). Many who've picked up Sony mirrorless cameras and set them to all-automatic focus are getting better results than they got with the autofocus system they didn't bother to learn on their DSLR, so they proclaim Sony as a clear winner."

Why Choose Brand A over Brand B? | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

bythom.com bythom.com
Click to expand...

That has been my experience with Sony cameras back when they release the A7 III generation and they were making a big splash about their Eye AF.

Every youtuber and every convert was beating the drum that the Eye AF was something magical so I had to try it. I went to a Sony sponsored event where they had the magical cameras, with Sony staff to help setting them up and models to test the new uber-feature. It was nice, but I got more keepers with my D810 than the automagical Sony (it really liked eyelashes and in-focus nostrils).

Since that moment, I am skeptical of any auto-magic claims from Sony users :D.
 
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thelordofthelight said:
Can you elaborate that with some facts?
Click to expand...
I and others have responded to many threads covering this subject. If you want more info either search and read what I and others on this forum have reported, read other forums, check out FB groups and look at sample images, user reports etc. You could also buy or rent one yourself and spend a few weeks shooting and learning one. It seems Thom doesn't think any of us have ever learned a camera or its af system and only he has so the rest of us just use it as a crutch. What a joke.
 
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Couldn't agree more...I didn't speak of my Sony experience here because there was a specific mention about A1 vs D6...I use a D850/D500 with a 4002.8 E as my primary wildlife set-up and i had a brief stint with the Sony cameras (Sony A7R4+200-600 and then the original A9)...I had a horrible experience with the R4 like so many others and the AF-C hit rate was a joke with that camera...i then sold the R4 and bought an A9 to only realize i was going back to my D850 every single time...I'm sure the A1 is better than D6 in some ways but not to the the extent the Sony evangelists exaggerate...bigger problem is with the Nikon to sony converts as they have a dual agenda...1. Is to back-up their purchase decision and 2. Is to bring down Nikon in every single Nikon thread to vent our their frustration with Nikon....

StefanSC said:
That has been my experience with Sony cameras back when they release the A7 III generation and they were making a big splash about their Eye AF.

Every youtuber and every convert was beating the drum that the Eye AF was something magical so I had to try it. I went to a Sony sponsored event where they had the magical cameras, with Sony staff to help setting them up and models to test the new uber-feature. It was nice, but I got more keepers with my D810 than the automagical Sony (it really liked eyelashes and in-focus nostrils).

Since that moment, I am skeptical of any auto-magic claims from Sony users :D.
Click to expand...
 
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I am yet to read a post where you have spoken in detail comparing the D6 features vs the A1 and all i have seen is you hijacking every Nikon thread and trying hard to prove the world that your new toy is the best....

dtibbals said:
I and others have responded to many threads covering this subject. If you want more info either search and read what I and others on this forum have reported, read other forums, check out FB groups and look at sample images, user reports etc. You could also buy or rent one yourself and spend a few weeks shooting and learning one. It seems Thom doesn't think any of us have ever learned a camera or its af system and only he has so the rest of us just use it as a crutch. What a joke.
Click to expand...
 
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thelordofthelight said:
Couldn't agree more...I didn't speak of my Sony experience here because there was a specific mention about A1 vs D6...I use a D850/D500 with a 4002.8 E as my primary wildlife set-up and i had a brief stint with the Sony cameras (Sony A7R4+200-600 and then the original A9)...I had a horrible experience with the R4 like so many others and the AF-C hit rate was a joke with that camera...i then sold the R4 and bought an A9 to only realize i was going back to my D850 every single time...I'm sure the A1 is better than D6 in some ways but not to the the extent the Sony evangelists exaggerate...bigger problem is with the Nikon to sony converts as they have a dual agenda...1. Is to back-up their purchase decision and 2. Is to bring down Nikon in every single Nikon thread to vent our their frustration with Nikon....
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Couldn't be further from the truth. I have stated more then a few times if Nikon or any other brand comes up with a tool that solves problems, delivers results I will buy it. Unlike other who justify them not doing anything because they either can't afford it, are brand loyal, "to invested to change" etc. are really the bias ones. I made an investment and don't need to justify that to anyone. It is doing what my hard earned money spent on it expected. If it didn't I would sell it. I kept all my Nikon gear and after months and 10's of thousands of images that impressed me I sold the Nikon gear. As I have stated before the a1 was the first Sony camera that got my attention, your experience is one of the reasons I didn't try out Sony at the time. It didn't seem to solve enough problems and had to many negatives. The a1 is not the camera that you and others have used in the past.
 
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thelordofthelight said:
I am yet to read a post where you have spoken in detail comparing the D6 features vs the A1 and all i have seen is you hijacking every Nikon thread and trying hard to prove the world that your new toy is the best....
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Nope I haven't done a detailed comparison with the D6 as I rented one but didn't buy one. I was going to buy one and then Sony dropped the a1 the same week so I bought it to try first. I will let others such as Steve who own both share their opinion of the two cameras. You can say I hijack Nikon threads but the truth is I am sharing experience from both sides. I don't bash Nikon but for those who think Nikon is the better camera are also the same ones who have never tried an a1. Some of us have actually spent the money to see for ourselves, others have not.
 
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For my personal use the Z9, A1, R5 question comes down to what I shoot and what I'm selling. As I see it the main benefits to the A1 and the R5 happen with birds in flight. If I was shooting for Ducks Unlimited or Audubon magazine or some other bird-centric publication I might feel differently. I know it's hard to believe but most working pros aren't celebrity photographers with deep pockets, major news corp photographers who don't buy their own gear, or YouTube influencers so thinking about the ROI is important to the little guys. Looking at what I've sold this month which so far includes 3 magazine shots, 3 shots off my website, 2 gallery prints, and a label for a Whiskey distillery. Having an A1 or R5 or even a future Z9 wouldn't have changed that number. The funny thing is that from what I read on forums I must have gotten lucky because all the images I sold were shot with apparently inferior equipment. All kidding aside and to be honest I seldom get inquiries for bird in flight photos and I have quite a few images of them in my portfolio some of which have won awards. They're just not big sellers and what does sell can generally be found on the stock photo sites. I'm sure the A1 and R5 are fun cameras to shoot with but I can't say I've ever had a customer ask me if my camera was fun. Actually seldom does anyone ask about my gear at all. I'm unsure at this point if a Z9 is in my future regardless of how well it might perform as $6-7k is a healthy chunk of change to pay down based on the current market for custom images vs the stock image inventory.
 
bsinc1962 said:
For my personal use the Z9, A1, R5 question comes down to what I shoot and what I'm selling. As I see it the main benefits to the A1 and the R5 happen with birds in flight. If I was shooting for Ducks Unlimited or Audubon magazine or some other bird-centric publication I might feel differently. I know it's hard to believe but most working pros aren't celebrity photographers with deep pockets, major news corp photographers who don't buy their own gear, or YouTube influencers so thinking about the ROI is important to the little guys. Looking at what I've sold this month which so far includes 3 magazine shots, 3 shots off my website, 2 gallery prints, and a label for a Whiskey distillery. Having an A1 or R5 or even a future Z9 wouldn't have changed that number. The funny thing is that from what I read on forums I must have gotten lucky because all the images I sold were shot with apparently inferior equipment. All kidding aside and to be honest I seldom get inquiries for bird in flight photos and I have quite a few images of them in my portfolio some of which have won awards. They're just not big sellers and what does sell can generally be found on the stock photo sites. I'm sure the A1 and R5 are fun cameras to shoot with but I can't say I've ever had a customer ask me if my camera was fun. Actually seldom does anyone ask about my gear at all. I'm unsure at this point if a Z9 is in my future regardless of how well it might perform as $6-7k is a healthy chunk of change to pay down based on the current market for custom images vs the stock image inventory.
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If it was an equally priced D6 instead of an A1 being brought up the Nikon faithful wouldn’t say a dang thing.
 
bsinc1962 said:
Thanks for your input, you either didn't understand my post or you didn't actually read it. Which is it?
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Sorry I'm just not a pro photographer like you with your big sales and apparently inferior equipment. Sometimes I have random thoughts and click reply. Again, sorry. I'll try not to ever reply to you again.
 
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bsinc1962 said:
For my personal use the Z9, A1, R5 question comes down to what I shoot and what I'm selling. As I see it the main benefits to the A1 and the R5 happen with birds in flight. If I was shooting for Ducks Unlimited or Audubon magazine or some other bird-centric publication I might feel differently. I know it's hard to believe but most working pros aren't celebrity photographers with deep pockets, major news corp photographers who don't buy their own gear, or YouTube influencers so thinking about the ROI is important to the little guys. Looking at what I've sold this month which so far includes 3 magazine shots, 3 shots off my website, 2 gallery prints, and a label for a Whiskey distillery. Having an A1 or R5 or even a future Z9 wouldn't have changed that number. The funny thing is that from what I read on forums I must have gotten lucky because all the images I sold were shot with apparently inferior equipment. All kidding aside and to be honest I seldom get inquiries for bird in flight photos and I have quite a few images of them in my portfolio some of which have won awards. They're just not big sellers and what does sell can generally be found on the stock photo sites. I'm sure the A1 and R5 are fun cameras to shoot with but I can't say I've ever had a customer ask me if my camera was fun. Actually seldom does anyone ask about my gear at all. I'm unsure at this point if a Z9 is in my future regardless of how well it might perform as $6-7k is a healthy chunk of change to pay down based on the current market for custom images vs the stock image inventory.
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Can’t argue with your logic.
The luxury people like me have, who do not need to make money from their photography, is that we can let “want” take over “need”. And there is nothing wrong with that. We actually fund the R&D that will eventually trickle down to people who have to be more selective or simply have other priorities.
You run a business, your choices are driven by financial ROI while others may be more driven by the FOI (fun ion investment), while others yet may prefer to refine their experience of a single piece of gear to the very best they can over long periods of time.
None of those approaches is inherently better or worse. It’s about what fits one‘s circumstances best.
 
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Hut said:
Sorry I'm just not a pro photographer like you with your big sales and apparently inferior equipment. Sometimes I have random thoughts and click reply. Again, sorry. I'll try not to ever reply to you again.
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I just don't understand where a D6 even came into the discussion. My answer would be the same. When I sold my D5 I could have easily purchased a D6 but the ROI just wasn't there so I didn't. You obviously don't have to think about it. Good for you. You're a camera company's dream customer.

Honestly I could care less about what you or anyone else shoots with. I live about an hour from Yellowstone and the Tetons. I see hundreds of photographers using tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear. It would be easy to get gear envy just looking around. I choose to not get caught up in it. I'm getting my shots, hopefully they're getting theirs.
 
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FB101 said:
Can’t argue with your logic.
The luxury people like me have, who do not need to make money from their photography, is that we can let “want” take over “need”. And there is nothing wrong with that. We actually fund the R&D that will eventually trickle down to people who have to be more selective or simply have other priorities.
You run a business, your choices are driven by financial ROI while others may be more driven by the FOI (fun ion investment), while others yet may prefer to refine their experience of a single piece of gear to the very best they can over long periods of time.
None of those approaches is inherently better or worse. It’s about what fits one‘s circumstances best.
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Which was exactly the point of my post. Thank you for the well thought out response.
 
bsinc1962 said:
I just don't understand where a D6 even came into the discussion. My answer would be the same. When I sold my D5 I could have easily purchased a D6 but the ROI just wasn't there so I didn't. You obviously don't have to think about it. Good for you. You're a camera company's dream customer.

Honestly I could care less about what you or anyone else shoots with. I live about an hour from Yellowstone and the Tetons. I see hundreds of photographers using tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear. It would be easy to get gear envy just looking around. I choose to not get caught up in it. I'm getting my shots, hopefully they're getting theirs.
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I probably did misread the intent of your original post.
Before I even considered an A1 I was excited to see how the Z9 and A1 would compare. But every thread mentioning the A1 people would pile in saying how badly they didn't need any of it, overpriced, blah blah blah. I'm thinking, this is a forum based on camera equipment??? I guess I was just as annoyed by that as they are annoyed by me saying how great my A1 is.
Not your fault, your original post was actually honest.
 
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Hut said:
I probably did misread the intent of your original post.
Before I even considered an A1 I was excited to see how the Z9 and A1 would compare. But every thread mentioning the A1 people would pile in saying how badly they didn't need any of it, overpriced, blah blah blah. I'm thinking, this is a forum based on camera equipment??? I guess I was just as annoyed by that as they are annoyed by me saying how great my A1 is.
Not your fault, your original post was actually honest.
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I can understand your excitement about the A1. It's an amazing piece of equipment and really has set the bar for the other camera manufacturers.
 
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