MYount
Active member
I also see tractor pulls and dirt car racing and motorcycle racing. My camera has to deal with speed.
Am I the only one who prefers DSLR?
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Keep in mind these are more functional differences and field work differences.
In short, I like the Zs better for landscapes and macros for sure, and some wildlife work.
For landscapes, I like the smaller body and the 14-30 (a lens not available with to the DSLR line). It's lightweight and can do probably 80% of the landscape work I want. I have full screen AF in both the viewfinder and the back panel, Live View AF is faster than the D850, as is focus shift shooting. And of course, it's nice to have the exposure preview. Overall, I think it's a nicer kit to use in the field. Plus I prefer the Z glass to the F-mount glass (my 24-70 2.8 is the best I've ever used). Not that I couldn't get the same shot with a D850, it's just that the Zs make it a better experience.
For macros, much of the same. The smaller, lighter camera is nice and easier to pack, I like having full AF in both the viewfinder and on the back of the camera, and focus shift shooting happens much faster (this is huge for me since most of my macro subjects are things like frogs, lizards, bugs, and did I mention frogs?). I also like that I can magnify the viewfinder and not just the LCD - I can verify critical focus without glasses. Again, it's just a nicer overall setup for macro work - and it'll get even better once the new 105 Z mount lens shows up.
Finally, for some (certainly not all) wildlife work I like it better. First, again, the full frame AF makes a huge difference. I was out just yesterday with the Z7ii shooting tiny nervous birds - chickadee's, tufted titmice, nuthatches, downy woodpeckers - tiny little guys. I was up close with the 300 PF and 1.4TC for much of the day and very seldom would my compositions have worked with the AF point layout of a DSLR - the eyes often fell above where a DSLR AF field would stop. It was also nice to have the live exposure info there as well - it allowed me to spot and correct problems well in advance of pressing the shutter release.
In fact, at one point I mentioned to my wife that I kind of wish I had the D6 along (because it focuses so much faster with F-mount glass) but then quickly receded that wish when I remembered how much I'd been taking advantage of the AF placement outside of what the D6 could do. Oh - and focus + recompose wasn't a good option here - DoF was super thin at the distances I was shooting and these birds were in constant motion. You really needed to get the AF point on-target and keep AF engaged if you wanted anything sharp. (As a side note, I do think my Sony a9ii would have fared even better yesterday since the 100-400 I'd use was a native lens and Sony's AF is a bit more flexible in this kind of scenario, but since I was testing the Z7ii, that wouldn't aha worked LOL.)
Again, it's not that the D850 would have failed across the board with the above three scenarios, it's just that the Z cameras are a slightly better tool for that kind of work in my opinion. That's the thing that's tricky - people often tend to see in black and white and forget there is massive overlap where multiple cameras can do the same thing.
Well reasoned. I like the "both" conclusion.
The subject tracking mode of the Z cameras doesn't work well for flying birds. But for tractor pulls? It should be perfect. Put the tracking box on the tractor and forget about trying to keep a focus point on it. If you're tracking with that tracking box you can concentrate on composition while you shoot. The camera will take care of the focusing. I daresay for something like tractor pulling there's probably not a DSLR that will make it easier.
Agree - right tools for the job
MYount
Active member
I'm glad that it works for you. I'm satisfied with the results I get at the present time. I have too much money invested in my equipment at the present time. I bought everything since August. If I want to stay married I'm definitely done for a while. I'm sure that if I got to know a different set of equipment that it could be great but I do feel that what I have is great. Happy shooting.Agree - right tools for the job
CallieRhino
Active member
I think it is always better to wait for the native Z-mount lenses and the next generation of mirrorless bodies before going over, cameras like the D500 and D850 have well proven autofocus for wildlife photography, the Z6 and Z7 are great cameras, but I don't like them for fast action and wildlife, but I think whatever is coming out after that will be amazing and could be worth the upgrade
ccirelli
Well-known member
Agreed, subject tracking is not my go-to mode for smaller / faster moving subjects (as much as I love subject tracking). Dynamic Area AF works well for me, or Wide Area Small.
Ricci Talks just posted a video where he shows some good success on BIF using (of all things) Auto Area AF with a Z6II. He mentioned a big improvement over the original Z6 in Auto Area AF, especially in lower light situations.
gbodave
Active member
Glad to see this guy (who I never knew of before) talking sense early on - everything is optional - it's up to you to select what's appropriate when you are shooting and get's the job done. Too many people suggest strongly that some of the AF area modes have some kind of magical properties that they will somehow do the job for you, or for this shot you MUST use this mode.
Ado Wolf
Well-known member
I think it is safe to say that Nikon DSLRs are at the top of the game, and only minor improvements are to be expected, unless a hybrid solution comes along.
The Sony A9 and Canon R6 are at the top of the game in mirrorless, and Z cameras must catch up, or leap forward, to have a chance in the future (and I have a feeling they will).
Either technology (DSLR or mirrorless) will do the job, as it is the photographer that makes the photo and not the gear. But why not rely on technology as a tool to make that process more efficient. It is only logical, if it wasn't for the financial aspect, that most photographers will update gear to help them improve their skills. However F glass is a long term investment and most are tied up due to it..
on a personal note, and I am sure many share this feeling, we all have other responsibilities in life (partners, kids, etc.) and must be "reasonable" with our savings
Nice weekend and happy shooting.
The Sony A9 and Canon R6 are at the top of the game in mirrorless, and Z cameras must catch up, or leap forward, to have a chance in the future (and I have a feeling they will).
Either technology (DSLR or mirrorless) will do the job, as it is the photographer that makes the photo and not the gear. But why not rely on technology as a tool to make that process more efficient. It is only logical, if it wasn't for the financial aspect, that most photographers will update gear to help them improve their skills. However F glass is a long term investment and most are tied up due to it..
on a personal note, and I am sure many share this feeling, we all have other responsibilities in life (partners, kids, etc.) and must be "reasonable" with our savings
Nice weekend and happy shooting.
I've implied this before in this thread and in others, but maybe a restatement in a different way may be useful. I will include two pictures for the sake of clarity as well.
There is no question that the D500/D850/D5/D6 have the most consistent (and best?) AFC performance in the DSLR space. They continue to be a high valued option for photographers who photograph action. Between the seamless integration of nearly every F-mount glass and their access to this system whose lens prices are falling due to switchers or the pursuit of lighter gear, Nikon's DSLR system continues to be state of the art. On the flip side, mirrorless (in general) has a number of attributes that reveal the dated nature of the more mature DSLR photography. Having a live-view that reflects exposure, in viewfinder histograms, near 100% AF points, silent shooting, and on sensor AF makes these cameras a viable tool.
While the version II Nikon MILC may not be up to spec in continuous AF when compared to the A9/R6/R5, they are not as far off as some would like to claim. Furthermore, the AFC in these bodies is much closer to my DSLRs (D500/D850) than most imply. I have little doubt that they will be as quick to follow focus as the latter once Nikon introduces native telephoto lenses with matching firmware improvements. The presence of a second in camera processor has the potential to add more AF capacity as the firmware development matures. What won't change is the frame rate.... In my opinion, this is where the Z6II/Z7II will ultimately lag. While both cameras can shoot at a faster frame rate than any DSLR (save the D5/D6), at 12-14fps, the live-view function fails and the camera defaults to slide-view. No amount of firmware tweaks will resolve this.
So as people consider where or when to make their move, I do not see AFC as the real limiting factor here.
Cameras for comparison: Last Sunday I was out photographing muskrat and otters. I had my D500 + 500PF to my right and Z6II and 200-400 to my left. When the otter was dipping up an down off the ice or was at a greater distance from me, the D500 was the cameras I chose. When the otter was feeding on the ice or closer to me, I shot with the Z6. In both cases, my AF was single spot AFC and "high frame" rate. The in focus performance was about 85% w/ the D500 and 90% with the Z6II. My point... neither camera let me down. As for joy in shooting... well, I like having the option of shooting with either or both at any time... pictures attached. I'll let you decide which camera goes with which picture.
regards,
bruce
There is no question that the D500/D850/D5/D6 have the most consistent (and best?) AFC performance in the DSLR space. They continue to be a high valued option for photographers who photograph action. Between the seamless integration of nearly every F-mount glass and their access to this system whose lens prices are falling due to switchers or the pursuit of lighter gear, Nikon's DSLR system continues to be state of the art. On the flip side, mirrorless (in general) has a number of attributes that reveal the dated nature of the more mature DSLR photography. Having a live-view that reflects exposure, in viewfinder histograms, near 100% AF points, silent shooting, and on sensor AF makes these cameras a viable tool.
While the version II Nikon MILC may not be up to spec in continuous AF when compared to the A9/R6/R5, they are not as far off as some would like to claim. Furthermore, the AFC in these bodies is much closer to my DSLRs (D500/D850) than most imply. I have little doubt that they will be as quick to follow focus as the latter once Nikon introduces native telephoto lenses with matching firmware improvements. The presence of a second in camera processor has the potential to add more AF capacity as the firmware development matures. What won't change is the frame rate.... In my opinion, this is where the Z6II/Z7II will ultimately lag. While both cameras can shoot at a faster frame rate than any DSLR (save the D5/D6), at 12-14fps, the live-view function fails and the camera defaults to slide-view. No amount of firmware tweaks will resolve this.
So as people consider where or when to make their move, I do not see AFC as the real limiting factor here.
Cameras for comparison: Last Sunday I was out photographing muskrat and otters. I had my D500 + 500PF to my right and Z6II and 200-400 to my left. When the otter was dipping up an down off the ice or was at a greater distance from me, the D500 was the cameras I chose. When the otter was feeding on the ice or closer to me, I shot with the Z6. In both cases, my AF was single spot AFC and "high frame" rate. The in focus performance was about 85% w/ the D500 and 90% with the Z6II. My point... neither camera let me down. As for joy in shooting... well, I like having the option of shooting with either or both at any time... pictures attached. I'll let you decide which camera goes with which picture.
regards,
bruce
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I used a D500 before making the final decision either stay with z6 or switch to D500. I did not take long for me to stay with the z6. I found that I was not steady enough to use the D500 even with a lens with vibration control. I immediately missed the 5 axis VR in the z6 body. With the D500 realized that I would need to use the tripod in many applications like I did when shooting 50 iso film. The other thing that made the decision to stay with the z6 was focus stacking. In the end I stayed with z6 and spent money to switch to an AF_S 105mm lens and will purchase z lens in the future. Thanks for all the remarks.
O
Well-known member
Like fruit on a tree, it needs to be picked when ripe, the mirroless camera fruit looks pormissing but is not yet ripe enough.
Selling all surplus gear while it has still some equity is not a silly idea, the 2021- 2022 season of new models and technology is going to be the most interesting time if manufactures deliver on their promises.
Change is on the horizon, the entry level is now 24mp, mid field is 45mp soon to be 60-100 who knows.
Pro modles will jump in mirroless with higher pixels.
I feel streamline your system, enjoy what you have left, don't buy anything till mid or late 2022, camera makers want to sell you things over and over with incremental upgrades like the smart phone industry.
Having less is more, less gear makes you think more on what your doing, as it should be.
OZ down under
Selling all surplus gear while it has still some equity is not a silly idea, the 2021- 2022 season of new models and technology is going to be the most interesting time if manufactures deliver on their promises.
Change is on the horizon, the entry level is now 24mp, mid field is 45mp soon to be 60-100 who knows.
Pro modles will jump in mirroless with higher pixels.
I feel streamline your system, enjoy what you have left, don't buy anything till mid or late 2022, camera makers want to sell you things over and over with incremental upgrades like the smart phone industry.
Having less is more, less gear makes you think more on what your doing, as it should be.
OZ down under
MYount
Active member
I'm 60 years old. Diabetes is has startedtaking my eyesight. I have a long ways to go before it really affects me but it started.
I have a d500 with the d7500 for backup. I have the so-called Nikon trilogy of lenses. There are a couple of more lenses I would like to have. But there is no way in the world that I'm going to start all over with another system. The setup that I have with the other couple lenses that I would like will last me a good number of years and by then it won't matter anyway. These cameras take excellent photographs. Now if I was younger I might think about it. I just don't see the point in it now. So there are a lot of considerations on whether someone wants to make the move. Not just what might be a fraction better than something else. If there was a massive difference that no one could possibly have a rebuttal for then I might do it but we're not there yet.
I have a d500 with the d7500 for backup. I have the so-called Nikon trilogy of lenses. There are a couple of more lenses I would like to have. But there is no way in the world that I'm going to start all over with another system. The setup that I have with the other couple lenses that I would like will last me a good number of years and by then it won't matter anyway. These cameras take excellent photographs. Now if I was younger I might think about it. I just don't see the point in it now. So there are a lot of considerations on whether someone wants to make the move. Not just what might be a fraction better than something else. If there was a massive difference that no one could possibly have a rebuttal for then I might do it but we're not there yet.
O
Well-known member
totally agree, hence enjoy what you have...……...makes a lot of sense.
OZ down under
OZ down under
Eddietheone
Member
Well I am not so impressed with my Z6II for wildlife shots at all. I am giving it a real good test but missed 3 good shots waiting for it to "wake" up in sudden oportunities the other day. The moment was passed in that 2 second wait each time. The camera would be greatly improved if it could be switched on full stop in my opinion. I know the batteries would drain faster but carrying a spare or two would sort that. I have tried to remember to switch it on and keep touching the af on button every few seconds but inevitably I will pause long enough for it to sleep. I think I can see me selling this and going back to my D500. That is awake by the time it reaches my eye. (so glad I didn't trade that). The autofocus on the Z6II likes to meander about the frame a bit when doing B.I.F. ( Especially with af lenses attatched). I mean a mainly brown and white bird against a blue sky how hard is that. (I did smile as the closest it got was when it flew across some tree branches). I am trying out the tips you mention in your book Steve but I don't love this camera yet not like the way the D500 felt when I bought that. All that said the actual photo quality I cannot fault with the 85mm s lens I bought with it. When it gets it right it turns out a good photo. In fact I think it is proberly fair to say that go with Z mount lenses with Z cameras. I find that with some af lens the auto focus hunts like hell so much I have adopted a hybred approach where I can. Ie I auto focus till it is sort of close then release the af button and manually focus when I can. Not allways possible with fast moving stuff of course. So my venture into FF might be short lived. I said I'd give it til Easter and I will keep on trying til then.
As I say in most of my posts about these cameras, they are not up to D500/D850/ D5/6 status yet. However, I do hav something you can try. When my Z cameras , I have the standby timer set longer to prevent the exact problem you mention with startup (C3 > Standby Timer). Mine is set to 5 minutes at the moment. That's usually long enough that if I see an opportunity and have to wait for something to happen the camera won't go into standby - but - once I'm hiking again if I forget to shut it off I'm not sacrificing my battery. Believe it or not, the Z6/7ii are some of the fastest mirrorless for startup that I've used! Even faster than my a9ii.
It sounds like you're using the tracking mode for the birds and, honestly, it's terrible. I'll eventually release my mini review video but I'll be talking about that for sure. I can't even get the tracking area to stick to a seagull when a cloud is behind it. It's quite awful for that - so much so I'm convinced that Nikon must be working on a firmware update - there' snot way that's as good as they can do.
For now, if you try something like Wide Small for birds (you'll have to keep the bird under it of course. it won't move around), I think you'll get much better results. Heck, the shot below (just a quick minimally processed example) was in single point with the Z6ii (easy bird). However, I'm confident in tracking mode the camera would have dropped the target.
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Very good info for me, interested by Zseries but who
''easy bird'' perhaps but superb shot
R.Philip
Well-known member
What? I am down to my last 4 rolls of Fujichrome film and was fearing the forced move to digital. What's this mirrorless stuff I have to be concerned with now? 
R.Philip
Well-known member
I'm sticking with my D850 as my primary body or as a back up if its replacement comes out with some impactful enhancements. No mirrorless in my future unless DSLR equipment is completely obsolete. I too have a similar line-up of f mount glass like many do. My only concern is buying the 600 f/4e and it being rendered useless in 5 years. So many focus on the tools, but its the end result that matters. I can produce what I need with dslr's; some pleasant art to hang on my walls.
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cohenfive
Active member
I have a bunch of bodies...d850, d500, z6 and now an r5. The Canon is exactly what nikon should have done....created a mirrorless d850. The z6 is a great little camera but I never use it for wildlife or action, because it just doesn't perform well enough. It's not just af performance but also fps when the action gets going. I am using the r5 more and more (thinking of buying a 600mm iii from a buddy of mine). It is a lot of fun to use. I slow it down to 12fps by using the mech shutter not electronic. Colors are good although I prefer nikon rendition a bit, especially for bright subjects where the canon overexposes a tad. AF tracking is terrific imo, slightly better (but not a huge amount) than my d850 and d500. I think it is a bit more tenacious, if sometimes not as quick to acquire lock as the dslr. Eye af is usable and is pretty amazing for some situations, but it is not my default setup for wildlife.
So for now my d850 is primary for wildlife, and r5 is getting increasing use as I get more used to it. I like a couple things about the nikon ui better, but both are good.
I've seen all the rumours about this year and I continue to think nikon is making a strategic mistake by not focusing on the next gen mirrorless bodies almost exclusively. They can put out great z mount lenses but if their users switch to canon or sony it won't matter. 'Sometime later this year' may not cut it imo. I think they should get in front and announce what they will release later in the year and if the specs are competitive, that could stop the bleeding. People will wait if they know what is coming, but if there are just rumours for the next six months it ccould be too late.
So for now my d850 is primary for wildlife, and r5 is getting increasing use as I get more used to it. I like a couple things about the nikon ui better, but both are good.
I've seen all the rumours about this year and I continue to think nikon is making a strategic mistake by not focusing on the next gen mirrorless bodies almost exclusively. They can put out great z mount lenses but if their users switch to canon or sony it won't matter. 'Sometime later this year' may not cut it imo. I think they should get in front and announce what they will release later in the year and if the specs are competitive, that could stop the bleeding. People will wait if they know what is coming, but if there are just rumours for the next six months it ccould be too late.
R.Philip
Well-known member
What is the difference between the F and Z mounts? Is it possible to engineer a mirrorless to fit the F mounts? If this is a stupid question, I apologize ahead of time because I know nothing about Z cameras.
JANuser
Active member
Nikon makes an adapter (FT-Z) that allows you to use F-mount lenses on Z-mount cameras. The Z-mount is a totally new mount, it has a larger circumference which allows for superior lens designs.
I'd say it's probably possible but not practical. The flange distance is far, fa shorter on the Z cameras so to get a Z lens to work on an F-mount camera the adapter would have to have some optical way to overcome this. They'd likely have to add some glass and it might even have to be lens specific. In short, I wouldn't hold my breath for any kind of F-to-Z adapter.
Eddietheone
Member
Thanks Steve forthe C3 tip. I had not seen the delayed time out options that went so long. I have set mine to infinity now and I will see how long the battery lasts next time I am out. I have a few of the 15b batteries so will take them with me. This will definately improve the camera IMHO. The next time I can get close to the Heron I was stalking Bam he will be in the can with a full frontal shot and not a rear end view. Also going to give single point a try as well. I used to be able to track stuff years ago with the film camera so I should be able to relearn that skill. In the meantime I shall continue reading your mirroless book and try and remember the main points when I am out. Cheers Edward