Back Button AF With Mirrorless: Yes Or No?

[RichF]

Another great video. I switch between shutter button and BBAF. THe shutter button has small area wide (Z 9) and BBAF is dynamic medium. Of course Fn 1 to C1 (wide strip) and Fn 2 to 3D. I can not find a way to get this to hold (other than RSF-hold) when Ilft muy finger off the Fn1/2 button. Did I miss something?

 

[bleirer]

Refer to post 46. I was responding to your question.

I was responding to MrPhotofool who said he didn't want to use any back buttons because he had to reach around

 

[JamesFarrell]

I was responding to MrPhotofool who said he didn't want to use any back buttons because he had to reach around

Bill: Read your response in #46 again. Specifically, at the end of what you wrote you posed a question. Notice the question mark? So I answered you question. Signing Off.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Another great video. I switch between shutter button and BBAF. THe shutter button has small area wide (Z 9) and BBAF is dynamic medium. Of course Fn 1 to C1 (wide strip) and Fn 2 to 3D. I can not find a way to get this to hold (other than RSF-hold) when Ilft muy finger off the Fn1/2 button. Did I miss something?

No you did not they are only an override while being held.

Since I want my thumb free to move my focal point when in modes other than 3D which moves the focal point by design and you can compose and track by keeping the subject where you want it in the frame I put 3D+AFON on my AFON button.

 

[bleirer]

Bill: Read your response in #46 again. Specifically, at the end of what you wrote you posed a question. Notice the question mark? So I answered you question. Signing Off.

Actually I was asking MrFotofool the question, wondering how he individually handled it since he said he didn't use back buttons. More just chitchatting really, not trying to raise the temperature in the room. How would you handle it if you didn't use back buttons?

 

[EricKlees]

BBAF is basically the only way i shoot my Z9. AF ON is 3D AF mode, the display button on the stills/video switch is remapped with the Auto Area AF mode and the sub selector is set for single point. I have ZERO interest or need of any of the antiquated Dynamic AF modes and have them disabled! in the menu so they can't even be selected as an option.

 

[IainD]

ThI went on a photo workshop in Alaska, and the leader suggested I try BBAF shooting eagles wi my D3s and D3s. I found it awkward at first but after about an hour, I was converted. That was 2011, and I have never changed. I have tried shutter af, as family members prefer that for their needs. It works, but it feels awkward to me.

 

[joe43]

I saw the video and really enjoyed it. I use Back Button Focusing all the time on my Z9 with the 100-400mm S lens and my Nikon 500mm f5.6 pf and 24-120mm S lens. My reasons for using it over the shutter button pretty match what Steve says in the video.

 

[R_Warshaw]

For those of us with hand tremors, back-button is easier to control than the half-press method.

 

[Ken Miracle]

For those of us with hand tremors, back-button is easier to control than the half-press method.

Excellent point !! Hold in or let go ... you still have to press the shutter but not try to go just halfway down.

With the new Z9 options that I use more and more of the time ... of pressing a button AFON and others to activate an AF area mode + AFon it essentially does the same thing. I have 3D+AFON on my AFON button so no moving the focal point with my thumb needed.

 

[ccirelli]

I've currently settled on shutter AF, with AF-ON being set to AF-LOCK. Kind of a reverse BBAF, which gives me single-finger operation for my "most of the time" shooting.
However - that's on my Z6II. Not having a Z9 yet, I feel like the additional options could completely change my approach.

Side note, given the Expeed6's more limited AF tracking performance compared to the Z9 - wouldn't it be nice if a firmware update allowed for more AF customization? Meaning a single-button press to instantly jump to Wide Small or Single Point, out of Subject Tracking (or vice versa) for example. I'd really welcome that.

 

[fcotterill]

{snip...}

Side note, given the Expeed6's more limited AF tracking performance compared to the Z9 - wouldn't it be nice if a firmware update allowed for more AF customization? Meaning a single-button press to instantly jump to Wide Small or Single Point, out of Subject Tracking (or vice versa) for example. I'd really welcome that.

For almost 2 years, I waited on this straightforward update fix from Nikon ie the option to assign AFmode+AFOn to a Fn button: I gave up waiting in mid 2020, and traded in the Z7.
Nonetheless, the Z7 is an excellent camera for many uses. It's bizarre how a modern camera is crippled by its limited Custom menu - in that one can only utilize 1 of ~10 AF modes at any time, because changing AF modes hangs on a complicated switch over...[the quickest is the scroll wheel+pressing Red Video Record]
Rant OFF/

 

[ccirelli]

For almost 2 years, I waited on this straightforward update fix from Nikon: no more and traded in the Z7.
It is nonetheless an excellent camera for many uses. It remains bizarre how at least to me, how a modern camera can only utilize 1 of ~10 AFmodes at any time, because changing AF modes hangs on a complicated switch over...[this delays includes scroll wheel+Red Record]
Rant OFF/

Totally agree. I've gotten quick at changing AF modes, muscle memory, number of wheel clicks etc. - but that still doesn't compare to what the Z9, and Sony and Canon models offer for instant AF mode switching. Not enough of a problem for me / my use case to ditch the Z6II, but yes I feel like this would be an easy and huge bone to throw the Z6/7/II crowd this year.

 

[Wes Peterson]

I was pretty much done with BBAF when I realized during the DSLR days that you cant engage AF while moving a focus point/group.

 

[Anjin San]

Ok…after reviewing everybody’s thoughts 3x…I went in and tried to redefine my buttons the way I want…but apparently this isn’t an option…so if I just didn‘t figure out the trick please enlighten me.

What I wanted was a way to change only the AF area with a single button push…my normal default is wide large but I wanted to have single button switch to wide small or auto area or 3D or single point. My thought was to set all of this with RSF Hold on the Fn buttons…but it didn’t work so after reviewing the Z9 wildlife book relevant portions again I now remember that RSF hold is only a single thing…which was why all the Fn buttons changed (twice) to the last thing I set when trying to do this. So after looking at Steve’s setup…moved AF area modes to Video and switched dials so the rear once changes mode and set AFC as always on. Then set Fn 1 to 3 to wide small, wide large, and single point and will follow his advice to set what I think is the best mode and use AF On to engage and the Fn buttons to quickly switch, but that requires holding the buttons. Decided not to put Fn1 and 3 the same since I never use the vertical handgrip, and did not want to use multiple buttons to engage AF so did not choose the mode and AF On option for the Fns…but might end up going back to that after some field testing. ED I put on the Lens Fn for now with mode and AF On since 3D is mostly used for BIF and the lens buttons are near my hand anyway…but might go back and make them just mode and use AF On button. And…if I can’t do a single button switch I will have to evaluate whether mode plus activate is a better solution…have to do another field test to compare the two options probably.

So…is there any way to use a single AF BBAF actuation button and have single press ability to change to other area modes without holding the button down? I can’t figure one out and the Z9 book makes it look not possible.

I did change RSF Hold to disable subject detect on DISPLAY button as well…which cost me my emergency action mode that switched to fast, wide open, and 20 FPS…but it turns out I do t use that much anyway and for most of what I do 12 or 15 FPS is fine.

Mostly I think the book lays out a pretty optimum setup…but needing to press and rotate and press again to change areas isn’t as nice as a single button switch would be for me at least.

 

[Anjin San]

Totally agree. I've gotten quick at changing AF modes, muscle memory, number of wheel clicks etc. - but that still doesn't compare to what the Z9, and Sony and Canon models offer for instant AF mode switching. Not enough of a problem for me / my use case to ditch the Z6II, but yes I feel like this would be an easy and huge bone to throw the Z6/7/II crowd this year.

I would also like to see that with the Z7II…but even if they fixed that it still operates differently and is less sophisticated for wildlife as compared to my Z9…perhaps we will see the Z8 on Wednesday and if it’s what I want it to be then I can see a trade up in my future for a second and/or backup body…

 

[Patrick M]

with the z6*7 custom f6 enables you to change settings without having to continuously depress and hold .

 

[fcotterill]

Ok…after reviewing everybody’s thoughts 3x…I went in and tried to redefine my buttons the way I want…but apparently this isn’t an option…so if I just didn‘t figure out the trick please enlighten me.

What I wanted was a way to change only the AF area with a single button push…

Only RSF Hold permits press once ON until pressed again for OFF.
The Nikon nanny forbids any other functions ie Autofocus mode being used likewise.

my normal default is wide large but I wanted to have single button switch to wide small or auto area or 3D or single point. My thought was to set all of this with RSF Hold on the Fn buttons…but it didn’t work so after reviewing the Z9 wildlife book relevant portions again I now remember that RSF hold is only a single thing…which was why all the Fn buttons changed (twice) to the last thing I set when trying to do this. So after looking at Steve’s setup…moved AF area modes to Video and switched dials so the rear once changes mode and set AFC as always on.

I also converged to a similar setup. Red button+ scroll front wheel is about the fastest compromise IME to switch AFmode fast with the Right Hand Only.

AFmode+AFOn works the fastest for press & hold on an customized Fn button. The result is one has up to 3,4 or even more BBAF buttons... The challenge, of course, is to train muscle memory to work these efficiently when all hell breaks loose!

Then set Fn 1 to 3 to wide small, wide large, and single point and will follow his advice to set what I think is the best mode and use AF On to engage and the Fn buttons to quickly switch, but that requires holding the buttons. Decided not to put Fn1 and 3 the same since I never use the vertical handgrip, and did not want to use multiple buttons to engage AF so did not choose the mode and AF On option for the Fns…but might end up going back to that after some field testing. ED I put on the Lens Fn for now with mode and AF On since 3D is mostly used for BIF and the lens buttons are near my hand anyway…but might go back and make them just mode and use AF On button. And…if I can’t do a single button switch I will have to evaluate whether mode plus activate is a better solution…have to do another field test to compare the two options probably.

As Patrick advises above, set f6 On allows a Press Once operation. This works almost like a Hold function on Fn buttons and scrolling (red video, ISO, -/+ etc)

So…is there any way to use a single AF BBAF actuation button and have single press ability to change to other area modes without holding the button down? I can’t figure one out and the Z9 book makes it look not possible.

I did change RSF Hold to disable subject detect on DISPLAY button as well…which cost me my emergency action mode that switched to fast, wide open, and 20 FPS…but it turns out I do t use that much anyway and for most of what I do 12 or 15 FPS is fine.

Since FW 3.0 I've found Subject Recognition has become more reliable, so I need toggle On/Off rarely. CA 1*1 works well and is surprisingly robust as it works like Single point but with a tightly constrained search area for Subject Recognition

Mostly I think the book lays out a pretty optimum setup…but needing to press and rotate and press again to change areas isn’t as nice as a single button switch would be for me at least.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Exactly..After the latest fw update the Z9 allows us to customise the DISP button as well and now I received my Z mount 400S TC that has 2 more rings that can be customized however, I do not have enough customizations that the camera offers to choose from . They should allow users to basically short list a set of AF modes (restricted list from the long list of all modes) and then at least let us use the control ring to cycle through the short listed AF modes Orin case of F mount users, let us re program the AF ring or One of the dials to cycle through shortlisted AF modes.

The Nikon nanny forbids any other functions ie Autofocus mode being used likewise.

 

[Anjin San]

True…but on the Z9 it's only for buttons that require a command dial in addition so it's push rotate push vice push and hold then rotate…I'm guessing that's the same the 6 and 7 work. I'm really looking for a single button no dial change…so if I say wide large and the swallow takes flight auto area might be better so a single push to get there without having to hold the button down…holding the button down if it's an Fn button while also hitting the AF On and then shutter is gonna be difficult…hence my alternative approach to make Fn1 Auto Area and AF On and then have multiple AF actuation buttons…assuming I don't confuzzle myself with that.

with the z6*7 custom f6 enables you to change settings without having to continuously depress and hold .

 

[Anjin San]

fcotteriill…I've also noticed that subject detection is better with 3.0 and on…and while it would great to have multiple RSF Hold setups that's not an option unfortunately. Red and rear control wheel to change between the limited number of AF areas I've got enabled is pretty quick though…so it's probably going to need a couple of tests to see if doing that and a single AF activation on the AF On button or the area and AF on on Fn buttons works better for me…dunno. I may end up getting rid of the detection off RSH Hold on DISP myself…or moving it to another button press-rotate-press button again sequence.

I did play around with putting AF area on an Fn button with the press-rotate-press again…but that's not a single press solution like I was looking for and isn't really going to be any better (I think) than the video-rotate-video sequence. Steve's a smart guy…and his recommendation in the book is to select what you think will be the optimum area and then press/hold the Fn buttons for quick change even though it's more of a finger stretch. The custom f6 won't lock it in since a half press on the shutter cancels the hold the button just as another press on the button does…if it did not then that would be the solution I'm looking for but alas, it ain't.

I also looked at the lens rings and while they can set a AF area…it didn't feel natural to me.

Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining what I was looking for…I had set f6 long ago so as not to have to hold the buttons down while rotating because of finger stretching making it harder than it needed to be.

In any event…got a couple outings with Whiskeyman later in the week so testing these options out is high on the list for those days.

 

[fcotterill]

fcotteriill…I've also noticed that subject detection is better with 3.0 and on…and while it would great to have multiple RSF Hold setups that's not an option unfortunately. Red and rear control wheel to change between the limited number of AF areas I've got enabled is pretty quick though…

It's the top speed that's possible it seems!

so it's probably going to need a couple of tests to see if doing that and a single AF activation on the AF On button or the area and AF on on Fn buttons works better for me…dunno. I may end up getting rid of the detection off RSH Hold on DISP myself…or moving it to another button press-rotate-press button again sequence.

I've moved RSF back to its more useful job, which is to kick across to very different exposure setup from the typical settings.
And each shooting bank has its appropriate RSF

I did play around with putting AF area on an Fn button with the press-rotate-press again…but that's not a single press solution like I was looking for and isn't really going to be any better (I think) than the video-rotate-video sequence.

Steve's a smart guy…and his recommendation in the book is to select what you think will be the optimum area and then press/hold the Fn buttons for quick change even though it's more of a finger stretch.

If I understand you, as Steve says it's very much a personal choice and decide what choice works best for you....

The custom f6 won't lock it in since a half press on the shutter cancels the hold the button just as another press on the button does…if it did not then that would be the solution I'm looking for but alas, it ain't.

Press Red button, scroll front wheel to new AFmode, hit AFOn to activate....

A Nikon cannot switch AFmodes any faster

Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining what I was looking for…I had set f6 long ago so as not to have to hold the buttons down while rotating because of finger stretching making it harder than it needed to be.

I settled with AFmode+AFOn some years ago soon after learning to optimize the D500. No going back from this.
As I said above it opens up 3 or more different versions of BBAF.
Press in the mode of the moment, and squeeze the shutter...
My Z9 and D6 work very similarly in this respect.

In any event…got a couple outings with Whiskeyman later in the week so testing these options out is high on the list for those days.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Ok…after reviewing everybody’s thoughts 3x…I went in and tried to redefine my buttons the way I want…but apparently this isn’t an option…so if I just didn‘t figure out the trick please enlighten me.

What I wanted was a way to change only the AF area with a single button push…my normal default is wide large but I wanted to have single button switch to wide small or auto area or 3D or single point. My thought was to set all of this with RSF Hold on the Fn buttons…but it didn’t work so after reviewing the Z9 wildlife book relevant portions again I now remember that RSF hold is only a single thing…which was why all the Fn buttons changed (twice) to the last thing I set when trying to do this. So after looking at Steve’s setup…moved AF area modes to Video and switched dials so the rear once changes mode and set AFC as always on. Then set Fn 1 to 3 to wide small, wide large, and single point and will follow his advice to set what I think is the best mode and use AF On to engage and the Fn buttons to quickly switch, but that requires holding the buttons. Decided not to put Fn1 and 3 the same since I never use the vertical handgrip, and did not want to use multiple buttons to engage AF so did not choose the mode and AF On option for the Fns…but might end up going back to that after some field testing. ED I put on the Lens Fn for now with mode and AF On since 3D is mostly used for BIF and the lens buttons are near my hand anyway…but might go back and make them just mode and use AF On button. And…if I can’t do a single button switch I will have to evaluate whether mode plus activate is a better solution…have to do another field test to compare the two options probably.

So…is there any way to use a single AF BBAF actuation button and have single press ability to change to other area modes without holding the button down? I can’t figure one out and the Z9 book makes it look not possible.

I did change RSF Hold to disable subject detect on DISPLAY button as well…which cost me my emergency action mode that switched to fast, wide open, and 20 FPS…but it turns out I do t use that much anyway and for most of what I do 12 or 15 FPS is fine.

Mostly I think the book lays out a pretty optimum setup…but needing to press and rotate and press again to change areas isn’t as nice as a single button switch would be for me at least.

Ditch BBAF and program the AF_on button to the af mode of your choice. You're already used to holding a button with your thumb.

 

[Wes Peterson]

It seems to me that most issues people have with button customization is due to the fact that their thumb is needed everytime they want to auto focus. Even the "handoff" issues people had with FW 3.0 wasnt an issue with shutter AF.

 

[Anjin San]

Ditch BBAF and program the AF_on button to the af mode of your choice. You're already used to holding a button with your thumb.

I tried doing that when I first got the Z9…but after so many years of BBAF with DSLRs shutter button AF just doesn't make much sense to me…and even if I did that there would only be 2 area options immediately available, right…whatever was otherwise selected already on the shutter and whatever other area that was assigned to the AF On button. Hudson Henry and others have used a hybrid AF mode with handoff from the shutter to the AF On (like Auto area and then 3D on AF On)…and I can't remember if he had activation shift to the AF On button or just the area selection, have to review that video again. In actuality other than the "I think in BBAF now" difficulty that I would have to train myself out of…it isn't a bad option to shift from 1 area to a second one…although as I said I was looking for a simple one button shift from area 1 to 2 or 3 or 4 depending on which button I pushed. But…it's another good option to test and see…thanks for the thoughts. I've outings with Whiskeyman this week as I said so will give shutter another try along with the programmed push and hold Fn buttons to get a different area.