Back Button Focus Has Become Useless

[Wes Peterson]

I like your line of thinking (as noted in the linked article in a few posts above) and I'm actually (still) considering going to shutter release AF myself since it frees up the AF-On button for other uses (although I'd probably set it for an AF Lock which I don't need now).

However, I'm not sure how your setup eliminates the need for a subject tracking toggle of some sort.

Subject tracking on the Z9 is a separate setting from AF area modes and if you have it on, it's on in both Auto and 3D. I get the idea that you can forgo those modes and just use single point, but there are times where there's a benefit to using a tracking mode like 3D with subject tracking disabled. For example, maybe subject detection is randomly detecting an "eye" on part of the perch where a bird is sitting and it's bouncing between that and a real eye (had it happen just yesterday with the Z9 and have had stuff like that happen with the Sony as well). In that case, I'd still want to use 3D AF to track it when it takes off, but I'd disable subject detection.

While not as versatile as as 3d tracking maybe slaving one of the dynamic modes would help with that issue

edited to add: I dont see a reason why adding the ability to turn it off is an unreasonable option.... I just feel like its likely a rare need that can be worked around easy enough for now.

 

[Wes Peterson]

as a canine action photographer, i don’t see me giving up bbf

I'm curious what is happening during your canine sessions that isnt possible with shutter af? How often are you taking photos without focusing compared to photos you take while focusing?

 

[Tom Reynolds]

D-500. I use BBAF simply to track. The shutter still has AF+shoot. That way I can use my thumb to move the AF SP. What I can't do is focus and recompose but I never do that anyway. The joystick is set to AF SP but I found fn1 better.

 

[John Navitsky]

I'm curious what is happening during your canine sessions that isnt possible with shutter af? How often are you taking photos without focusing compared to photos you take while focusing?

i’m always focusing, but i have to move and pan fast, with big arm movements, and getting on af without activating the shutter is harder in that situation. if i lose af and have to re-activate, getting off and back on af is necessary. basically i still need to go on and off af, and it’s hard to do fine motor controls when you’re moving a lot

 

[Steve]

While not as versatile as as 3d tracking maybe slaving one of the dynamic modes would help with that issue

edited to add: I dont see a reason why adding the ability to turn it off is an unreasonable option.... I just feel like its likely a rare need that can be worked around easy enough for now.

Hopefully a future firmware update. There is a lot of chatter about it

 

[bleirer]

One thing I’ve noticed is when I hit my custom button for manual focus it works fine but as soon as I hit the shutter button whatever I focused on has been negated. I’m 99.99% sure it’s my method but BBF would eliminate that.

edit: After thinking about this more I realized what I’m doing wrong.

On my Canon if I want manual focus I have to shoot while still holding my thumb on the button I set for af-off, if I release my thumb then press the shutter it autofocuses again.

 

[NWGuy]

Have been trying to follow this and one of the first times I've heard of shutter over BBF, many of the references above are with using a Z9, which not in my current stable, and probably won't be. Steve - you're great at explaining things, how about a short vid or written review on discussing the BBF vs shutter button options and cover how this is on different camera models?

 

[Steve]

Have been trying to follow this and one of the first times I've heard of shutter over BBF, many of the references above are with using a Z9, which not in my current stable, and probably won't be. Steve - you're great at explaining things, how about a short vid or written review on discussing the BBF vs shutter button options and cover how this is on different camera models?

I more or less do here:

Has Mirrorless Killed Back Button AF? - Backcountry Gallery

So, there I was, diligently working on a Z series version of my AF book when I came to the Back Button AF (BBAF) chapter. Within moments I found myself running head-long into an instructional blockade. As I was confidently outlining the benefits of BBAF, it occurred to me that one of its primary...

backcountrygallery.com

I can't cover every different camera and option, but that article should help

 

[JAS]

Much here to contemplate and see how it could apply to me. My skills are basic and worked well on the DSLR side. I am learning new things on the Mirrorless side and any future camera acquisitions will be mirrorless, so now is the time to learn and practice, practice, practice. Thank you all for providing this food for thought.

 

[sid_19911991]

Like most people early on in my photography adventure I was a quick adopter of back button focus. I think the AF systems have gotten so good in cameras its kind of made it un needed. I ditched bbf a long time ago when i realized it was foolish to press an extra button everytime I wanted to focus as opposed to pressing a button the very few times I didnt want to focus. It also dawned on me that its impossible to move an af point while focusing with bbf. Now with edge to edge focusing the technique of focus and recompose isnt needed and what is actually needed (when using single point af) is to manipulate the af point with your thumb on the joystick. Focus and recompose is an inferior technique compared to composing with af where it needs to be.

Now with the new mirrorless tech and the Z9 everyone is searching for a work around to turn off subject detect with one button. That button is the shutter button but old techniques has everyones thumbs busy with other things so moving the af point is impossible. The way i initially set up my Z9 is single point af slaved to shutter release, auto area af with auto subject detect slaved to af-on button and 3d tracking slaved to the fn1 button. That allows me to move the af point easily in single point or 3d tracking.

I seriously think back button focus is as relevant to todays cameras as pumping the brakes is to a vehicle with ABS. When i ditched bbf i NEVER had an issue of needing it outside of maybe a landscape shot. It's obviously still very early in my experience with the Z9 but I'd love to hear if anyone see's any holes in my thoughts here.

Ryan Mense, a wildlife photographer I follow says the same. He says Af button,-on focussing is passe & slower. Shutter button AF gave me far better results when using the A7 iii.

I will surely try both AF button & Shutter button AF with the Z9 & then settle on the one which is better...seems like the shutter button af is the way to go...

 

[SRLNY]

For those folks who have gone off of AF button back focusing, what, then, are you assigning to the AF button? Curious as to what is being most often used. I know that on my Z6ii the options are limited, and I'd suspect that they may be equally limited on my (yet-to-be-delivered) Z9, but I'm wondering what folks think makes the most sense of the options.

 

[bleirer]

For those folks who have gone off of AF button back focusing, what, then, are you assigning to the AF button? Curious as to what is being most often used. I know that on my Z6ii the options are limited, and I'd suspect that they may be equally limited on my (yet-to-be-delivered) Z9, but I'm wondering what folks think makes the most sense of the options.

Assigning it to af-off for focus lock or manual focus.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

I am not mapping to anything on my D-500. I still like to track birds with BBAF. It seems too hard to track with a half press on the shutter. The difference is that I can move my thumb to the joystick to move the focus point.

It is not clear that you need to move the focus point on a Z9 but you still need to track so possibly the joystick is the one to reprogram.

 

[RichF]

In the idea world you may be correct, however habits are hard to break.

 

[PhilcTx]

I left mine as AF-On And half shutter also

I did the same on my Fuji X-T4.

I also added one of the VKO shutter button caps and with that there's improved finger tactile feedback for finding & pressing the button when AF'ing and shutter release. The X-T4's AF-on button is not as quick and easy to find and mash.

 

[sh1209]

I’ve used BBF for the last 8-9 years and have used it most of the time I’ve owned the z bodies. I have been experimenting lately with going back to shutter activation and honestly it seems much easier to shoot with shutter focus. It will be a hard habit to break but I think this is certainly the direction I’m going in. I’ve not found anything yet that hasn’t been easier to photograph in this manner. As stated earlier in the thread, it frees the thumb for quick manipulation of the joystick.

 

[Wes Peterson]

For those folks who have gone off of AF button back focusing, what, then, are you assigning to the AF button? Curious as to what is being most often used. I know that on my Z6ii the options are limited, and I'd suspect that they may be equally limited on my (yet-to-be-delivered) Z9, but I'm wondering what folks think makes the most sense of the options.

I had mine assigned to auto area AF in DSLRs to grab bird in flight shots. Thats how I have the Z9 setup too but im not sure if that will change.

 

[Tiago C]

Even with good tracking AF I prefer BBF for shooting in consecutive short bursts. Lower risk of accidentally focusing on something else in the middle of a sequence.

 

[dabhand16]

The X-T4's AF-on button is not as quick and easy to find and mash.

I find that too.

My XT-2 had the AF-L button just above the thumb grip top RHS and I really liked that position for my BBF. However, it was not domed so was difficult to find so I stuck a self adhesive rubber bump stop over it and that made a world of difference. When I got an XT-4, the AF-ON had been moved to next to the EVF. Although it is now domed (hooray!) as I'm left eyed my nose is in the way if I use it. So I swapped the Q button for AF-ON and put the Q menu on the AEL button. Using my trick of the bump stop on the Q button - now AF-ON meant that both of the cameras had the same set up. Happy days. I also use the small round bump stops on my battery grips shutter buttons and the flush battery grip buttons.

Then I traded my XT-2 for another XT-4. The self adhesive bump stops were occasionally coming off both cameras as the small area (I was cutting a small piece from a long thin strip to go over the button) was not enough to withstand my thumb not pressing it from directly above, it was more of a slight sideways pressure as you went to focus. It was not a huge issue as I had plenty of stripe to be able to cut replacements. I used to carry about 10 spares in my bag.

I decided to see if I could cope with the AF-ON domed button for BBF and it is now getting better as I'm persevering with it, although I still think the Q button position is the best for BBF.

 

[Wrogu]

You guys made me think. What I do not like about A9 is the fact I cannot use a function recall and change focus point position with joystick or adjust shutter - say lower from 2500 to 1500.

I am considering trying shutter AF. That would allow me to preprogram two buttons to (AFON and AEL) to two different recalls. Of course that would not solve my problem but would give me an easy access to one extra shooting mode. It might be worth considering .... but I am not sold yet. What would be great would be a toggle like the PASM ring has (1/2/3 shooting programme) but rotating PASM is way slower than using recall :(

Decisions, decisions.

 

[arbitrage]

Just to add to my first reply. I still use back buttons a lot to switch into different AF modes. But not as my main AF method. On Canon R5 and Sony A1/A9 I make use of all three back buttons (two on A9) to do different things. On R5 I had each of the three back buttons do a different AF mode (Spot, Zone, Wide Zone) and on the A1 I have them set as Toggle into Registered AF area, Tracking On (turns my regular AF mode into Tracking version while holding the button) and a Recall Custom Hold to get a low SS, low ISO for perched shots.

On Z9 I will have the AF-ON do an alternative AF-Area Mode. Most likely will have a Single Point on that button with Auto or 3D on the shutter. I will also use lens button for one more AF mode.

 

[fcotterill]

It's clear Nikon's 3D-tracking has matured for wildlife subjects, especially coupled with subject recognition and above all Eye-recognition. We can expect to benefit from these features in more cameras. And performance will be improved. No matter how well schooled the deep-learning in an Automated AF algorithm, the natural world will discombobulate its pattern recognition (eg subject in clutter, too many (mixed) subjects). Many of us will keep using single-point - interleaving its activation with 3D-Tracking, Auto-AF, and one or more Area modes.

I shoot by activating the shutter release in tandem with paired activation of any one of 4 AF modes. Choice of AF Mode is subject to focusing challenges. This baseline sets a keystone minimum standard for a camera... can it be setup to activate any one of up to AF modes almost instantly ? I crossed the Rubicon on this feature a couple of years ago, but it took longer to afford a pair of cameras that meet these standards. Anyway I rate any ILC that cannot be customized to shoot this way as useless for wildlife - in the sense I would never pay a cent on one.

Thus, I use the AF mode in BBAF and can switch to any of the 3 other AF mode+AFOn modes to respective controls.
I understand how some photographers prefer driving both focus and shutter with one finger (literally) but how does one activate the shutter AND activate a different AF mode? In other words - deactivate the AF mode linked with Shutter release, which would typically be assigned to AF-On?

Like most people early on in my photography adventure I was a quick adopter of back button focus. I think the AF systems have gotten so good in cameras its kind of made it un needed. I ditched bbf a long time ago when i realized it was foolish to press an extra button everytime I wanted to focus as opposed to pressing a button the very few times I didnt want to focus. It also dawned on me that its impossible to move an af point while focusing with bbf. Now with edge to edge focusing the technique of focus and recompose isnt needed and what is actually needed (when using single point af) is to manipulate the af point with your thumb on the joystick. Focus and recompose is an inferior technique compared to composing with af where it needs to be.

Now with the new mirrorless tech and the Z9 everyone is searching for a work around to turn off subject detect with one button. That button is the shutter button but old techniques has everyones thumbs busy with other things so moving the af point is impossible. The way i initially set up my Z9 is single point af slaved to shutter release, auto area af with auto subject detect slaved to af-on button and 3d tracking slaved to the fn1 button. That allows me to move the af point easily in single point or 3d tracking.

I seriously think back button focus is as relevant to todays cameras as pumping the brakes is to a vehicle with ABS. When i ditched bbf i NEVER had an issue of needing it outside of maybe a landscape shot. It's obviously still very early in my experience with the Z9 but I'd love to hear if anyone see's any holes in my thoughts here.

 

[arbitrage]

You guys made me think. What I do not like about A9 is the fact I cannot use a function recall and change focus point position with joystick or adjust shutter - say lower from 2500 to 1500.

I am considering trying shutter AF. That would allow me to preprogram two buttons to (AFON and AEL) to two different recalls. Of course that would not solve my problem but would give me an easy access to one extra shooting mode. It might be worth considering .... but I am not sold yet. What would be great would be a toggle like the PASM ring has (1/2/3 shooting programme) but rotating PASM is way slower than using recall :(

Decisions, decisions.

If you use shutter AF and have one of your back buttons set to Recall Custom Hold as you hold that button you can change your SS if your SS is on the front dial. It temporarily overrides your SS set in the Custom Set as long as you are holding your Recall button. This only works while AF isn't active so that doesn't work if your Recall Custom Hold has "AF-ON" selected.

I've been doing this a lot lately. I have my Recall button set for perched shots with 1/400s, Auto ISO, 10FPS, Expand Flex Spot:Tracking. Sometimes I want a bit faster shutter speed and sometimes will go slower if the bird is relatively still to get an even lower ISO.

 

[sid_19911991]

It's clear Nikon's 3D-tracking has matured for wildlife subjects, especially coupled with subject recognition and above all Eye-recognition. We can expect to benefit from these features in more cameras. And performance will be improved. No matter how well schooled the deep-learning in an Automated AF algorithm, the natural world will discombobulate its pattern recognition (eg subject in clutter, too many (mixed) subjects). Many of us will keep using single-point - interleaving its activation with 3D-Tracking, Auto-AF, and one or more Area modes.

I shoot by activating the shutter release in tandem with paired activation of any one of 4 AF modes. Choice of AF Mode is subject to focusing challenges. This baseline sets a keystone minimum standard for a camera... can it be setup to activate any one of up to AF modes almost instantly ? I crossed the Rubicon on this feature a couple of years ago, but it took longer to afford a pair of cameras that meet these standards. Anyway I rate any ILC that cannot be customized to shoot this way as useless for wildlife - in the sense I would never pay a cent on one.

Thus I assign BBAF and 3 other options for an AF mode+AFOn to respective controls. I understand how some photographers prefer driving both focus and shutter with one finger (literally) but how does one activate the shutter when calling in a different AF mode? In other words - deactivate the AF mode linked with Shutter release, which would typically be assigned to AF-On?

It will be fascinating to see how good the AI AF system will get. I have a feeling it will get way better. It just took 2 years for Nikon to beat D6' AF or AF of any other DSLR. One day the camera should be able to identify a leaf, branch, cloud, & learn to ignore them, while focusing solely on the subject. The bigger challenge would actually be far greater ISO & DR performance.

 

[Ado Wolf]

I still use BBF mainly because I still use DSLR and MLC and I like things to work the same on both systems.

I also use BBF to focus on a certain subject (Landscape) then move my focus point to meter of another point / subject (without losing focus, to save my highlights).

I would never move my AF point while my focus is active (AFC).. since my camera will end up hunting (particularly with telephoto lenses)..

But if BBF became irrelevant for some, why not.. it’s a free world