Back Button Focus Has Become Useless

[Ivan Rothman]

I have been using BBF for so long that it has become so natural to me. With my Z9 and before that with the Z7ii I tried going back to shutter release focus but it didn't feel right. And while holding focus with a half press I sometimes press too hard and set off shutter. So for now, I will stay with BBF. If I need to change focus point I can use my thumb on the subselecter and then immediately go back to AF-ON button to focus.

 

[abc123brian]

I keep focus set to shutter release. AF-On is set to single point AF mode on my D500 to give me the option to leave the default group setting when needed. I wish that was an option on the Z7ii as I found it to work well for me. I temporarily switched to BBAF many years ago and could see value when the AF area was very limited, but I don’t have a practical reason to use it anymore.

 

[pfinfante]

Maybe the Z9 needs more user input but with the a1 I have never once moved a focus point manually with the joystick. I still use BBF as I want to be able to control when the camera focuses separate from metering or taking a shot. Take Astro, landscape etc once I have focus I don’t need the camera to focus again. Using the BBF separates these actions and keeps me from having to put the lens in manual. I also can not focus but by half pressing get an updated exposure reading. Without BBF this can’t be done.

I’m confused. Why would you never have a need to move a focus point? What if you’re shooting a landscape or other static scene? Even a non-moving wildlife scene? Do you mean you are using focus recompose instead?

 

[ronpier]

Like most people early on in my photography adventure I was a quick adopter of back button focus. I think the AF systems have gotten so good in cameras its kind of made it un needed. I ditched bbf a long time ago when i realized it was foolish to press an extra button everytime I wanted to focus as opposed to pressing a button the very few times I didnt want to focus. It also dawned on me that its impossible to move an af point while focusing with bbf. Now with edge to edge focusing the technique of focus and recompose isnt needed and what is actually needed (when using single point af) is to manipulate the af point with your thumb on the joystick. Focus and recompose is an inferior technique compared to composing with af where it needs to be.

Now with the new mirrorless tech and the Z9 everyone is searching for a work around to turn off subject detect with one button. That button is the shutter button but old techniques has everyones thumbs busy with other things so moving the af point is impossible. The way i initially set up my Z9 is single point af slaved to shutter release, auto area af with auto subject detect slaved to af-on button and 3d tracking slaved to the fn1 button. That allows me to move the af point easily in single point or 3d tracking.

I seriously think back button focus is as relevant to todays cameras as pumping the brakes is to a vehicle with ABS. When i ditched bbf i NEVER had an issue of needing it outside of maybe a landscape shot. It's obviously still very early in my experience with the Z9 but I'd love to hear if anyone see's any holes in my thoughts here.

Since I have been using BBF almost all of my shots are in focus unless it is my user error. Won’t go back.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Since I have been using BBF almost all of my shots are in focus unless it is my user error. Won’t go back.

I'm curious what about using BBF leads you to believe your camera focuses better than shutter button focus.

 

[bleirer]

I’m confused. Why would you never have a need to move a focus point? What if you’re shooting a landscape or other static scene? Even a non-moving wildlife scene? Do you mean you are using focus recompose instead?

I think a variation of focus recompose is when you move the camera to recompose but the focus box moves to stay locked on the subject. I guess the camera doesn't care if you move or if the subject does.

 

[Nat]

It's clear Nikon's 3D-tracking has matured for wildlife subjects, especially coupled with subject recognition and above all Eye-recognition. We can expect to benefit from these features in more cameras. And performance will be improved. No matter how well schooled the deep-learning in an Automated AF algorithm, the natural world will discombobulate its pattern recognition (eg subject in clutter, too many (mixed) subjects). Many of us will keep using single-point - interleaving its activation with 3D-Tracking, Auto-AF, and one or more Area modes.

I shoot by activating the shutter release in tandem with paired activation of any one of 4 AF modes. Choice of AF Mode is subject to focusing challenges. This baseline sets a keystone minimum standard for a camera... can it be setup to activate any one of up to AF modes almost instantly ? I crossed the Rubicon on this feature a couple of years ago, but it took longer to afford a pair of cameras that meet these standards. Anyway I rate any ILC that cannot be customized to shoot this way as useless for wildlife - in the sense I would never pay a cent on one.

Thus, I use the AF mode in BBAF and can switch to any of the 3 other AF mode+AFOn modes to respective controls.
I understand how some photographers prefer driving both focus and shutter with one finger (literally) but how does one activate the shutter AND activate a different AF mode? In other words - deactivate the AF mode linked with Shutter release, which would typically be assigned to AF-On?

I mostly shoot the Canon R5 and I have C1 set-up for Shutter AF and C2 set-up for BBF, because I typically only use BBF for perched birds on cold days when I want to put my hands in my pockets to warm them but when pressing the shutter button to wake the viewfinder, I don't want to refocus. I have three buttons on the rear of the camera programmed to different AF modes and they override the mode assigned to the shutter button so, if tracking is on the shutter button and it is being difficult, pressing the rear button assigned to spot will override tracking. Releasing that button will often allow tracking to acquire what was under the spot and track it. Pressing the AF-off button (AF-on reprogrammed) overrides the shutter button and turns-on MF peaking which I find essential when shooting animls wandering through the brush. The 3rd button is programed to AF-on so it is identical to the shutter button, which is redundant when shooting Shutter button AF, but it is the same button that initiates AF when the camera is set to BBF. This simply eliminates the confusion of different rear button configurations and as I am usually wearing gloves, avoids undesired mode selections. I program the DOF preview button to cycle through available focus modes giving awesome flexibility.

 

[ccirelli]

I posted this topic here about a month ago with similar thoughts, specifically in the context of newer mirrorless bodies. After being a long-time BBAF guy from my DSLR days, I started experimenting & testing scenarios between BBAF and shutter release AF configs. I quickly realized my thumb really was doing unnecessary work - and it could be free'd up for other functions assigned to AF-ON or the sub-selector button (AE-Lock, Spot Metering, Zoom, etc.). Or, to simply hold / support the camera much easier / more securely when shooting one-handed (I frequently hold a reflector, light, or shoot low to the ground - all of which require one-handed control). Shooting one-handed and working AF-ON and the shutter is not ideal.

Other than muscle-memory (which is valid), I really haven't heard a compelling enough reason to use BBAF with mirrorless AF systems. At least for what I do. I'm getting shots with less effort, more stability, more shooting options with my free thumb, and the same keeper rate as always.

 

[simonsi]

I have AF-S locked out in my D500, shutter button AF using single point, AF-ON using Group. Tried BBF several times in my photographic career but always switched back, maybe spoilt by my main lenses having AF lock buttons but generally my subjects have never required any rapid switching between AF-C and AF-S so it is just making life more complicated for no benefit in my usage - even on DSLR shooting…

 

[sh1209]

I posted this topic here about a month ago with similar thoughts, specifically in the context of newer mirrorless bodies. After being a long-time BBAF guy from my DSLR days, I started experimenting & testing scenarios between BBAF and shutter release AF configs. I quickly realized my thumb really was doing unnecessary work - and it could be free'd up for other functions assigned to AF-ON or the sub-selector button (AE-Lock, Spot Metering, Zoom, etc.). Or, to simply hold / support the camera much easier / more securely when shooting one-handed (I frequently hold a reflector, light, or shoot low to the ground - all of which require one-handed control). Shooting one-handed and working AF-ON and the shutter is not ideal.

Other than muscle-memory (which is valid), I really haven't heard a compelling enough reason to use BBAF with mirrorless AF systems. At least for what I do. I'm getting shots with less effort, more stability, more shooting options with my free thumb, and the same keeper rate as always.

I agree, and that's basically the same conclusion I have came to after several weeks of testing. I have now assigned AF/Lock to AF/ON which works well. It also gives me greater control of moving focus points.

 

[jpawlan]

Now, if there was just a way to turn off that darn joystick. It gets bumped and moves all over the screen!
[/QUOTE]

I just got my Z9 and am learning all the menus and setting it up. It is quite different from my DSLRs D5 and D850. Those have a lock switch to prevent the focus point from moving.
On the Z9 I found the way they moved this to a menu setting. Settings: Control: click f4 Focus Point Lock and turn it on.
Now the darn joystick is disabled

If you want this same function in video, use Control: g3

 

[Ken Miracle]

Even with good tracking AF I prefer BBF for shooting in consecutive short bursts. Lower risk of accidentally focusing on something else in the middle of a sequence.

there is no difference between releasing focus and refocusing with the shutter release or back button so whey were there be a lower risk ? As @Steve has said focus is focus irregardless of which button you use.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Used BBF for a little over a year and went back a long time ago. I wanted my thumb free for other duties and could not see why I needed to push two buttons to take a pic..

 

[eaj101]

I'm beginning to think that one's feelings of BBAF are something of a proxy for how much you shoot landscapes on a tripod, even animals from a tripod. I usually don't want the camera attempting to refocus every time I press the shutter. I often set up, frame the shot, focus on something I know to be static, like branch or tree next to the subject, ensure I have enough DOF for my subject, and then wait with remote release in hand for my subject to do something interesting. If I tried to keep the focus on my subject I'd be driving the AF point all over the frame all the time.

Or another example, I might set the focus on a field of moving flowers, set hyperfocal, and shoot.

It's possible my procedure is different than most, or I'm missing something. For fast and irregular action I sometimes resort to shutter-AF, but that's about it.

I guess we all have different approaches.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I'm beginning to think that one's feelings of BBAF are something of a proxy for how much you shoot landscapes on a tripod, even animals from a tripod. I usually don't want the camera attempting to refocus every time I press the shutter. I often set up, frame the shot, focus on something I know to be static, like branch or tree next to the subject, ensure I have enough DOF for my subject, and then wait with remote release in hand for my subject to do something interesting. If I tried to keep the focus on my subject I'd be driving the AF point all over the frame all the time.

Or another example, I might set the focus on a field of moving flowers, set hyperfocal, and shoot.

It's possible my procedure is different the most, or I'm missing something. For fast and irregular action I sometimes resort to shutter-AF, but that's about it.

I guess we all have different approaches.

I have only been on a tripod for testing new lens/camera combos for over 2 years now. ... My camera never comes out of AF-C something is always moving.

 

[Roy]

Like most people early on in my photography adventure I was a quick adopter of back button focus. I think the AF systems have gotten so good in cameras its kind of made it un needed. I ditched bbf a long time ago when i realized it was foolish to press an extra button everytime I wanted to focus as opposed to pressing a button the very few times I didnt want to focus. It also dawned on me that its impossible to move an af point while focusing with bbf. Now with edge to edge focusing the technique of focus and recompose isnt needed and what is actually needed (when using single point af) is to manipulate the af point with your thumb on the joystick. Focus and recompose is an inferior technique compared to composing with af where it needs to be.

Now with the new mirrorless tech and the Z9 everyone is searching for a work around to turn off subject detect with one button. That button is the shutter button but old techniques has everyones thumbs busy with other things so moving the af point is impossible. The way i initially set up my Z9 is single point af slaved to shutter release, auto area af with auto subject detect slaved to af-on button and 3d tracking slaved to the fn1 button. That allows me to move the af point easily in single point or 3d tracking.

I seriously think back button focus is as relevant to todays cameras as pumping the brakes is to a vehicle with ABS. When i ditched bbf i NEVER had an issue of needing it outside of maybe a landscape shot. It's obviously still very early in my experience with the Z9 but I'd love to hear if anyone see's any holes in my thoughts here.

Back button AF is more about control than tracking and is more like needing a steering wheel in a care when we have self driving cars...

 

[John Navitsky]

more like when they started putting the shifter on the dash

 

[bfs208]

there is no difference between releasing focus and refocusing with the shutter release or back button so whey were there be a lower risk ? As @Steve has said focus is focus irregardless of which button you use.

@Steve has never said irregardless.

 

[Tiago C]

there is no difference between releasing focus and refocusing with the shutter release or back button so whey were there be a lower risk ? As @Steve has said focus is focus irregardless of which button you use.

For my use there is a difference. I can't consistently switch between full press and half press of the shutter button. Sometimes, I accidentally unpress the shutter button completely. Consider photography with cold hands where your ability to control fine finger movement decreases. The risk is if I release the shutter button completely by accident, focus tracking stops and I need to restart the focusing process. During a shooting sequence where I burst shoot, this problem increases my chances of missing shots. With BBF, the described problem doesn't apply. All one needs to do to maintain focus is to keep the BB fully pressed, which requires way less hand dexterity.

 

[Wes Peterson]

For my use there is a difference. I can't consistently switch between full press and half press of the shutter button. Sometimes, I accidentally unpress the shutter button completely. Consider photography with cold hands where your ability to control fine finger movement decreases. The risk is if I release the shutter button completely by accident, focus tracking stops and I need to restart the focusing process. During a shooting sequence where I burst shoot, this problem increases my chances of missing shots. With BBF, the described problem doesn't apply. All one needs to do to maintain focus is to keep the BB fully pressed, which requires way less hand dexterity.

Maybe, but the fact that many shoot in the cold quite often even with gloves on and it doesnt seem to be a problem for them makes me wonder if this is due more to the fact that you are used to BBF and dont have the muscle memory developed for shutter AF.

 

[Ken Miracle]

For my use there is a difference. I can't consistently switch between full press and half press of the shutter button. Sometimes, I accidentally unpress the shutter button completely. Consider photography with cold hands where your ability to control fine finger movement decreases. The risk is if I release the shutter button completely by accident, focus tracking stops and I need to restart the focusing process. During a shooting sequence where I burst shoot, this problem increases my chances of missing shots. With BBF, the described problem doesn't apply. All one needs to do to maintain focus is to keep the BB fully pressed, which requires way less hand dexterity.

each shooter can have a different style and should do what works for them. I am into efficiency for my style and muscle memory and my dexterity is the opposite. I shoot with gloves on below 32 degrees a lot and I did not like having to use a thumb and a finger to focus when I shot bbf for over a year. I can not remember ever unpressing the shutter button unless I wanted to reset focus but sounds like our styles are quite different.

@Steve has never said irregardless.

And yes Steve has said more than once that the focus mechanism in the camera functions exactly the same however you actuate it and he is correct.

I am a run and gun hand held shooter, chasing birds and a few other critters so that could have some impact and I am shooting in Continuous High Speed almost exclusively. I use my thumb on the joy stick or selector to move my focal points just before I shoot in many cases ... depends on which way the bird is flying etc.. When I am done with full press I am done shooting that situation and I want to release and have press again to start whatever the new sequence is. My camera and lens set ups lock on again fast on my new or old subject. I also use my preview button to switch between single point and group as needed even during a shot sequence at times. I also frequently start shooting before and after, follow through, the prime target zone for a bird in flight. So for my style never have a need to go from full press back to half press.

 

[Steve]

For the record, there is no functional difference in the AF system between using BBAF or shutter release AF. The AF system works exactly the same in either case, regardless of which method is used. BBAF simply allows you to shooting in AF-C all the time without resorting to AF-S in focus and recompose scenarios and for some it more ergonomically satisfying (a perfectly valid reason to use it IMO). I also find it handy for scenes where I don't want the camera to refocus each time I press the shutter release (i.e. landscapes and some macro work).

 

[FB101]

more like when they started putting the shifter on the dash

What an aberration! Shifters belong on the floor (but I’ll accommodate paddles on the wheel)

 

[dixieclipper]

I’m in the muscle memory/ergonomically satisfying camp after many years of shooting underwater with a big thumb trigger for BBAF and no real ability to feel the shutter button with neoprene gloves! It felt natural to continue as I did more “terrestrial“ photography. After reading through the posts here I have started to experiment so thanks to Wes for starting the thread, lots of good info as usual from the community. This seems like a matter of technique and what works best for each photographer.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I’m in the muscle memory/ergonomically satisfying camp after many years of shooting underwater with a big thumb trigger for BBAF and no real ability to feel the shutter button with neoprene gloves! It felt natural to continue as I did more “terrestrial“ photography. After reading through the posts here I have started to experiment so thanks to Wes for starting the thread, lots of good info as usual from the community. This seems like a matter of technique and what works best for each photographer.

Perfect example of a different type of muscle memory and ergonomics !