CF express card

[fcotterill]

There's been recurring discussion about which CFExpress B cards since last year, and more recently wrt the Z9 and its more stringent constraints on getting sustained frame rates and for high spec video. The technology is still evolving, so the SSD site seems to be a useful site to watch...

Ricci Chera of Nikon UK tested cards of several brands to finalize on Delkin Black and Power, and last week he said Angelbird are also suitable for fast/high volume video etc. Based on internet reports and tests etc, I see the storage arena using XQD-CFExpress in Nikon cameras to present in 4 universes:

1. Landscape etc - no worries continuing with XQD expect the technology is already obsolescent - hard to buy new, and CFExpress are wider investmnt. Obvioulsy older XQD cards have a higher risk of failing;

2. Stills using CFExpress - short bursts at most. The "slower" brands and types of CFExpress work well apparently provided emptying the camera buffer does not hit bottlenecks, which also heats up some of these cards - to as high as 70+ C! Subject to one's own testing CFExp cards such as Lexar Pro 64Gb are probably fine at this level in the Z9. IME Lexar Pro 64Gb work v well in the D850 and D5: latter card does not overheat shooting the D5 @12fps to fill the buffer;

3. Sustained still shooting for action eg BIF will reguire cards in the league of Delkin Black and Power and at least 128Gb, larger storage size may be preferable especially if aiming to start video;

4. 4k and 8K Video recording high resolution RAW demands high end CFExp B ie 2Tbyte Delkin and Angelbird. Clearly, the Z9 is the first ILC designed to capture marketshare in this ecosystem. With none of its own high end cinema spec cameras to protect from Z9 cannabilsm, Nikon is targeting what has previously been the more expensive high end universe of cinematography ie RED cameras etc.

 

[sh1209]

Since you have brand new xqd cards I would just try it and see. Maybe by then the next gen of faster CFE cards will be available if you feel the need.

I’ve honestly never had an issue with them. Most of the time if I do a burst it’s 2 seconds or less. Occasionally I’ll do a video here and there in 4K. Even with the Z7ii files I’ve never had a buffer issue. I want the z9 more for small erratic birds to track better. BIF isn’t something I do regularly and probably the longest burst I do is with dogs lol. Normally in my experience, you only have 2-3 seconds tops for any fast moving subject. Sports photographers on the other hand are a different story. I also do some shooting at drag racing events as well, but again 1-3 second bursts is the norm. The Z6ii and Z7ii both struggle with small birds and if there’s anything between you and the subject. I’m really hoping the Z9 will improve that aspect of shooting. I’ll probably order one CF express and use the XQD for jpegs. In my case I’ve never had cards larger than 128GB and don’t foresee needing them with the z9 which will save money on the cf express.

 

[fcotterill]

My own plan is grow into larger / faster CFExpr cards gradually.
My first XQD cards are 2016 and I've no clue how many times they've been filled and reformatted. I at least know date of purchase. I plan to phase out all XQD eventually, and decided last year to buy only CFExp... starting with a pair of 128Gb Delkin Power next year.

 

[sh1209]

My own plan is grow into larger / faster CFExpr cards gradually.
My first XQD cards are 2016 and I've no clue how many times they've been filled and reformatted. I at least know date of purchase. I plan to phase out all XQD eventually, and decided last year to buy only CFExp... starting with a pair of 128Gb Delkin Power next year.

I am really intrigued by the 120 frames per second JPEG capabilities of that camera because I do shoot dogs for people sometimes and I would more than likely use that feature. 11 megapixels would be great for things like that and I was thinking XQD card would handle that but I’m not really sure. I have made some great prints from 12 megapixel files from the D700 in the past. I think I will more than likely do what you were saying and just slowly phase the XQD cards out. Mine are all Sony and I’ve had some since the D850 with absolutely no hiccups whatsoever.

 

[fcotterill]

Yes XQD have proven excellent in my case in African outdoors, since D500. Absolutely no glitches to date but I'm not pushing chances (as Steve mentioned in one of these thread he had one of D4 era fail eventually).

Brad Hill confirmed the slower cards handle smaller file formats including the 120 fps jpgs He's planning a more detailed post on cards and Z9 buffer etc. The groundbreaking 120 fps breaks new ground may well open up the beginning for highspeed shooting, considering in January Nikon released a high speed stacked sensor for industry which probably overlaps in using ML algorithms and we know it supports an order of magnitude faster scanning speed - 1000fps and much wider dynamic range. Subject to power, coprocessors, EVF capabilities and heat production, it will be interesting to watch the FX MILC arena - future Z cameras in particular!

Considering the questions about "Which card?", it's unlikely to have been coincidental that Ricci's first official video, released almost the day after the Z9 launch, emphasized you are likely to need high end CFExpress cards for serious sustained shooting in full RAW formats. This provided the ideal way for Nikon to get the word out quickly - it has gone viral on forums etc long before the camera shipped.

I am really intrigued by the 120 frames per second JPEG capabilities of that camera because I do shoot dogs for people sometimes and I would more than likely use that feature. 11 megapixels would be great for things like that and I was thinking XQD card would handle that but I’m not really sure. I have made some great prints from 12 megapixel files from the D700 in the past. I think I will more than likely do what you were saying and just slowly phase the XQD cards out. Mine are all Sony and I’ve had some since the D850 with absolutely no hiccups whatsoever.

 

[sh1209]

Yes XQD have proven excellent in my case in African outdoors, since D500. Absolutely no glitches to date but I'm not pushing chances (as Steve mentioned in one of these thread he had one of D4 era fail eventually).

Brad Hill confirmed the slower cards handle smaller file formats including the 120 fps jpgs He's planning a more detailed post on cards and Z9 buffer etc. The groundbreaking 120 fps breaks new ground may well open up the beginning for highspeed shooting, considering in January Nikon released a high speed stacked sensor for industry which probably overlaps in using ML algorithms and we know it supports an order of magnitude faster scanning speed - 1000fps and much wider dynamic range. Subject to power, coprocessors, EVF capabilities and heat production, it will be interesting to watch the FX MILC arena - future Z cameras in particular!

Considering the questions about "Which card?", it's unlikely to have been coincidental that Ricci's first official video, released almost the day after the Z9 launch, emphasized you are likely to need high end CFExpress cards for serious sustained shooting in full RAW formats. This provided the ideal way for Nikon to get the word out quickly - it has gone viral on forums etc long before the camera shipped.

If I do in fact get the Z9 I will most likely get one CF express and continue to use the xqd card 2 jpeg setup I use now. I feel the Z9 is a camera that one could buy and easily keep 5 to 7 years with no issues whatsoever which will ultimately be my plan.

 

[78Staff]

The general consensus has been that if you have XQD now, upgrading to CF-E is not critical - but if buying new cards, go ahead and buy CF-E as they are actually starting to be less costly than XQD in most cases, and do offer better speeds. Plus it moves you away from proprietary XQD to a card with great manf. support. You will need a new card reader.

 

[sh1209]

The general consensus has been that if you have XQD now, upgrading to CF-E is not critical - but if buying new cards, go ahead and buy CF-E as they are actually starting to be less costly than XQD in most cases, and do offer better speeds. Plus it moves you away from proprietary XQD to a card with great manf. support. You will need a new card reader.

I ordered one last night from Amazon and I’m going to get a 128 GB SanDisk CF express card. I don’t foresee needing a larger one than that at least in the short term because I can get 14 to 1500 images raw from my Z7ii on a 64 GB card. I personally don’t like to get more photos than that on a card in case of a failure. If I do need more capacity in the future I will add another CF express the same size and break the images up if I’m shooting a large number just for peace of mind. Knock on wood, I have never had any card fail even in my drones. I would not want to have a staggering amount of images on one and lose it before being able to back it up. I tend to be more on the cautious side just in case lol.

 

[EricBowles]

The things that should point you to a fast CFExpress card are:

• a new Z9
• the expectation of shooting at 10 fps or faster
• shooting any 4k 60p or 8k video
• using backup mode
• Using RAW + Large JPEG
• if buffer clearing matters

A slow card in the Z9 is probably a bad move because the difference at high frame rates is so great. If you are spending that much for the features of a Z9, spend the extra for one fast card
The slower cards are often around a write speed of as slow as 3-4 fps. The buffer is just 18-20 frames. With a fast card you use the buffer slowly, but with a slow card, you'll fill the buffer in a little over two seconds.
Video can cause overheating and buffer issues at high frame rates
Backup mode compounds any card speed issues. You can fill a buffer in slightly over a second in backup mode.
RAW plus large JPEG has a similar impact as backup if you have a slow card.
My primary use case is not a single long burst - it's a succession of 50-60 bursts of under a half second each with another burst every 1.5 seconds or less. If your card can't write frames at a fast speed, the buffer fills and you have to drastically change the way you shoot.

A fast CFExpress card can be nearly 10 times faster than a slow card. Its hard to know the difference. You might choose a slower card with a Z6 or Z6ii because it is going to be hardware limited and frame rate is slower. If you are pushing any of the limits for data throughput, fast cards will make a big difference.

 

[nikonkelly]

I too have several XQD cards all Lexar... old, yes but work. About two years ago I had one break, contacted lexar and filled out the paper work. it only took 4.5 months to get my money back... well part of it, they didnt cover the full price but about 75% of the cost of a new card. So, in seeing just how cheaply made the lexar cards were, I decided to try the Delkin Black CFe cards... if for no other reason than durability, I will stick with the Delkin cards. As a side benefit, I now have the fastest of cards, and ones that will not break, but should they, I will have a replacement in my hands in 48hrs... provided there is delivery to where I will be at, at the time. My Z7 and D850 love these CFe's! Just a different reason to maybe consider the change in formats.

 

[sh1209]

I went ahead and ordered two sandisk cards. I’ve used sandisk cards in all my drones as well as standard Sd camera cards over the years with zero failures. This might not be too of the heap but I think they’ll be just fine for my use.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[Griffym]

I do hope it works well. FYI I did read this article. The tests are not done on a Nikon camera. He doesn’t say what file sizes the R5 is producing but for what it’s worth, you may find it interesting. I bought 2 brands to see how well they work, Lexar 128, Sony Tough 128.

CFexpress: A Real-World Performance Comparison

The newest, best cameras coming on the market use a new kind of memory card called CFexpress Type B. They’re fast, but they’re new, so users don’t really

petapixel.com

 

[sh1209]

I chose to go with these primarily from past experience with dependability. I would venture to say 95% of my shooting is 5 seconds or less with very little video shooting. I typically never do more than 20 frames in a burst. I’m considering doing some testing with these in the z7ii to see if there’s a major difference over the xqd.

 

[Griffym]

That makes sense. I have never had an issue of any kind with my Lexar XQD (5 64Gb cards) so I stayed with Lexar. The 64 Gb CFX version seemed to manage at an acceptable level in Matt Granger’s test. The Sony 128 cards appear to perform about the same as the Sony 256 that Matt Granger tested. We will have to wait and see.
Larger size CFX are expensive for an item which may not offer more and may fail. Like you I will see how 128 size cards work for me before I even consider a larger card. If I can get a 7-10 second burst from a 128 using HE* that’s all I need. (and it’s 140 to 200 shots to check).

 

[sh1209]

That makes sense. I have never had an issue of any kind with my Lexar XQD (5 64Gb cards) so I stayed with Lexar. The 64 Gb CFX version seemed to manage at an acceptable level in Matt Granger’s test. The Sony 128 cards appear to perform about the same as the Sony 256 that Matt Granger tested. We will have to wait and see.
Larger size CFX are expensive for an item which may not offer more and may fail. Like you I will see how 128 size cards work for me before I even consider a larger card. If I can get a 7-10 second burst from a 128 using HE* that’s all I need. (and it’s 140 to 200 shots to check).

Yeah I have absolutely no desire to have cards larger than that. I'm cautious with how many images I keep in camera. Typically 1200-1500 is the max I will take before offloading. Hardly ever do I take more than 500-700 images in a day but there are times I surpass that.

 

[Charles Loy]

Try this one. I have tried a number of them and this one is the best. Reasonably priced, well-made, fast, and reads CF express, XQD, and SD cards. Can’t beat it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095JTF9J8/?tag=backcogaller-20

I bought this exact reader (daughter actually bought it for me) , plus Sony and ProGrade. They all work about the same, but this is a bunch more convenient. And less costly, I recommend it too.

 

[Roy]

I wanted to get some thoughts on CF express cards and what brands you have the best luck with. I have continued to use the XQD cards and they have worked flawlessly with both of my generation 2 z bodies. Hypothetically speaking, if I were to purchase Z9 and not planning on doing video, would it be fine to continue to use the XQD cards in the Z9? I am just trying to figure out if it’s worth it to spend several hundred dollars on cards I might not need. Then there is CF express a and b and I’m not exactly sure what the difference is. I really don’t do a lot of long bursts. I sometimes do some 4K video maybe 30 seconds to a minute at a time but really nothing extended. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

I only have 12 XQD cards and 4 CFexpress.
Unless you are doing long bursts or video the XQD should be perfectly fine (and cheaper).
I intend to get my moneys' worth out of my XQD cards before I retire them

 

[sh1209]

I only have 12 XQD cards and 4 CFexpress.
Unless you are doing long bursts or video the XQD should be perfectly fine (and cheaper).
I intend to get my moneys' worth out of my XQD cards before I retire them

I’m in the same boat. I have 8 xqd cards and two of which haven’t been used. I’ll most likely still use xqd as a jpeg slot 2 configuration.

 

[Ken Miracle]

If I am spending $5500 on a camera body I did not blink at ordering the fastest sequential writing CFexpress B cards ... the Delkin Black (128GB for me since it is faster than the larger size at this time) and I do not do video so 64 GB XQD has been big enough in my 850 in the past and now using 128 CF Express B and no concern for me with that size. As posted earlier the Delkin black is the coolest running. The most heat generated is when downloading the cards and not really an issue for me. With the firmware update I used CFexpress B cards in my D500, D6 and the D850 I kept when I sold the others. I plan on continuing to use the slower but still fast Delkin Power cards in my D850. As someone else noted earier CFexpress is less expensive per GB than XQD and will be going forward and XQD cards have an ever shrinking market while CFexpfress has a bigger market and more manufacturers. I have two readers a Prograde that reads CFexpress B and SD cards (my D850 second slot is SD) and a Delkin reader that does only CFexpress. I still have XQD cards laying around and readers but no plan to use them at this time.

 

[78Staff]

Try this one. I have tried a number of them and this one is the best. Reasonably priced, well-made, fast, and reads CF express, XQD, and SD cards. Can’t beat it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095JTF9J8/?tag=backcogaller-20

I bought this exact reader (daughter actually bought it for me) , plus Sony and ProGrade. They all work about the same, but this is a bunch more convenient. And less costly, I recommend it too.

What I need is an CF / CFE Type B / SD reader . Can't believe no one makes one, D810 still alive and kicking . Currently using a mix of readers, but would be nice to have a single one.

 

[Griffym]

I bought the Sony CFX and XQD reader. ( Sony MRW-G1 ) I almost never use my SD cards in the computer anyway but I have a Sony XQD and SD reader in the desk draw just in case. Multi-slot card readers seem to be disappearing. Probably a good thing. What I want is a reasonably priced multiport USB C hub to connect things to, or more accessories to have connections so they can be part of a daisy chain.

 

[Charles Loy]

What I need is an CF / CFE Type B / SD reader . Can't believe no one makes one, D810 still alive and kicking . Currently using a mix of readers, but would be nice to have a single one.

Compact Flash? Correct - CF / CFE Type B / SD reader combo does not exist. Happy hunting for that.

 

[jcgamble]

I compared my 128 Prograde Gold CFE TYPE B against my Sony XQD G 64G and 128G in my Z6 II. The Sony cards 135 and 127 vs the Prograde Gold at 83 at H+. Never thought that would happen. Performance is definitely tied to cards for all these mirroless cameras. My 128G Delkin Black CFE TYPE B and 328G Prograde Cobalt CFE TYPE B go to 200 before they stop. Camera was set to 14 bit RAW lossless compressed. The performance of the XQD is fine for my Z6 II.

 

[EricBowles]

I compared my 128 Prograde Gold CFE TYPE B against my Sony XQD G 64G and 128G in my Z6 II. The Sony cards 135 and 127 vs the Prograde Gold at 83 at H+. Never thought that would happen. Performance is definitely tied to cards for all these mirroless cameras. My 128G Delkin Black CFE TYPE B and 328G Prograde Cobalt CFE TYPE B go to 200 before they stop. Camera was set to 14 bit RAW lossless compressed. The performance of the XQD is fine for my Z6 II.

The faster the frame rate and more data being generated the bigger the difference is between cards. Your test was a really good comparison of real world differences. It's also interesting that the best performing card did not exist when the camera was released, so Nikon has anticipated faster cards hitting the market. That's also why we can't rely exclusively on the list of approved cards from Nikon - they don't normally update the list over time.

 

[fcotterill]

More options of the latest Angelbird CFexp B cards are being listed at B&H, hopefully with more Affordable deals

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1678304-REG/angelbird_avp160cfxbsx_av_pro_cfexpress_sx.html

EDIT see next post about failures reported with the first Angelbird cards on Z cameras