Color Profiles(Picture Control)

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Ralph

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interesting article.
Here's a Nikon link that I suspect many of you already know.
 
Nikon's Paul van Allen recently suggested placing a lot more emphasis on getting it right in the camera with Picture Control selection and customization and even shooting JPEG in the camera. Because what you see is what you get with mirrorless, he is shooting a lot of JPEG images with minimal correction needed. Obviously that would not be the approach for fine art or images intended to be highly edited.
 
I have mentioned this in the past, but if you are really concerned about getting accurate colors, then one can do what most photographers do with the monitor.......they calibrate it.

FWIW, I have calibrated all my cameras since about 2010. The tour leader in Costa Rica was amazed at the color accuracy in the bird images I captured in CR and wanted to know how I got such accurate colors. The answer: I had created a custom camera color profile.

Very similar to calibrating a monitor, one can also calibrate the camera and create a custom camera COLOR profile. Then instead of using Adobe or other processing software to select Sunlight, shade, Cloudy, etc, you simply choose the Color profile you created for your camera. The tools, software and process was developed by Xrite, who has since been purchased by Calibrite. Check out this video ....
 
Occasionally I'm asked to take pics of folks and events at my church. I use the Portrait Picture Control setting on my D850 with a small adjustments to the contrast and the clarity setting. I have this dialed in now to where a JPEG comes out almost perfectly dead on to how it looks to my own eye. All that is left is too crop the image as needed. So yeah I'm a big fan of Picture Controls for certain situations.
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Very similar to calibrating a monitor, one can also calibrate the camera and create a custom camera COLOR profile. Then instead of using Adobe or other processing software to select Sunlight, shade, Cloudy, etc, you simply choose the Color profile you created for your camera. The tools, software and process was developed by Xrite, who has since been purchased by Calibrite. Check out this video ....

I've been using a Colorchecker Passport for quite a while now and have camera profiles for all of my cameras in broadly different light. Summer Sun, Summer bright, Summer grey day, Summer window light - sunny, bright, grey day.... You get the picture.

I'm a bit colour blind so I know that these profiles give me an accurate starting point in post.
 
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I've been using a Colorchecker Passport for quite a while now and have camera profiles for all of my cameras in broadly different light. Summer Sun, Summer bright, Summer grey day, Summer window light - sunny, bright, grey day.... You get the picture.

I'm a bit colour blind so I know that these profiles give me an accurate sating point in post.
Agreed! I have been able to use just one color profile per camera because I don't shoot indoors or in mixed lighting. I only shoot outdoors in natural light and have found using one profile quite adequate for bright midday light , very shady and/or cloudy conditions and everything in between. If you need multiple custom color profiles, that capability is easily available with the Calibrate Color Passport.
 
Same here, one profile per camera body. I also do 99% of my photography outdoors. Have been using the color passport and its software since before mirrorless. Very pleased with the profiles for the Z9, Z7ii, etc.
 
I have a Color Passport and created a profile.
Then set that profile as the default for Lightroom. (Create a User Preset, then go to Preferences / Presets / Override global settings for specific cameras)

What I don't understand though is that I can not see anywhere that the profile is applied after import, I find it a little confusing.
Do you load the profile as the default, or do you manually select the profile after import?
 
Do you load the profile as the default, or do you manually select the profile after import?

I always select the profile after import. Very rarely I'll use one of the other profiles instead of my custom ones And I shoot with 3 different cameras at the moment, all of which have several profiles for different lighting conditions.
 
You might check the right hand panel in the import module. There is a drop down there to apply a preset upon import.
 
I also use a passport and have made a sun and shade profile for each lens/camera combination. It's something you only need to do once then the profiles are there when you browse or you can assign them as favorites to be part of the dropdown. It would be critical for wedding or product photography where the skin tones had to be spot on, but the differences are very subtle and not a "it will change your life" kind of thing, I find I prefer other profiles sometimes for particular shots and often will go into the camera makers raw converter to take a peek at which one I prefer. Sadly you can't use the color checker software within the camera makers raw converter.
 
It can be enlightening to shoot the color checker then hold the real one in good light next to the calibrated monitor. It can be pretty close, but many adjustments in the basic panel or curves can alter the color. Somewhere I found a chart of what the color values are supposed to be, and they change quite a bit with adjustments when you use the eyedropper to read the color squares.

So your eye is still the best judge.
 
There are 2 interesting threads on the Nikonians Forum dealing with the impact of Z9 camera settings and Light Room Classic Global settings being set to camera settings rather than adobe default. There is another thread on impact on focus with the picture settings in camera and how they are tweaked.


I did a quick experiment of using camera standard with the Z9 and adjusting the profile to my preferences and then making that change in Global settings in LRC. I did not have many photo ops for myself to test yesterday because I was helping a new photographer learn the very basics like the triangle of light etc. on a walk along the river. I tried to pick some tough lighting subjects.

Here are some images that I shot in Raw dragged and dropped to my mac studio and then imported to LRC with the Global settings in LRC changed to camera settings. No adjustments at all in LRC other than cropping. Overall it appears to give me a much better starting point.

I used my regular LRC facebook export presets for all of the images but the first one since I find the face book settings to be better resolution than the ones when using the preset @Steve provides for the forum. The first image was to large for the forum in facebook size.

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I’m not colour blind, but I’m left eye dominant. My left eye is also very short sighted. My right eye is 20/20 following cataract lens replacement a few years ago. As a result, I see blue better with my right eye and I see red better with my left! So colour profiles are something of an enigma for me. I’m sure I’m not alone,
 
I am struggling to follow this topic and thread.
For me (and I assume most) colour profiles are largely used when shooting JPG/TIF or videos . However, since I exclusively shoot RAW my question is how to bring them into my workflow. As previously noted I am not remotely happy with how Adobe treats Nikon Z9 Lossless RAW files, as a result I use DxO Pure RAW to convert Lossless RAW files into DNG and then work on them in LR or PS. At which time I apply a range of presets OR use DxO FilmPack 5 to obtain the "look" I wish to achieve.
@Patrick M - I use reference shots of either a ColorChecker Passport or DataColor Spyder Checkr 24 to ensure that I understand what the "correct" colour is for each of my set ups and to remove guesswork later. This allows one to build an ICC and import preset that can be applied to the images taken in your shoot. Then one can compare the "treatment" between a "reference" process and one's own attempts.
 
I am struggling to follow this topic and thread.
For me (and I assume most) colour profiles are largely used when shooting JPG/TIF or videos . However, since I exclusively shoot RAW my question is how to bring them into my workflow. As previously noted I am not remotely happy with how Adobe treats Nikon Z9 Lossless RAW files, as a result I use DxO Pure RAW to convert Lossless RAW files into DNG and then work on them in LR or PS. At which time I apply a range of presets OR use DxO FilmPack 5 to obtain the "look" I wish to achieve.
@Patrick M - I use reference shots of either a ColorChecker Passport or DataColor Spyder Checkr 24 to ensure that I understand what the "correct" colour is for each of my set ups and to remove guesswork later. This allows one to build an ICC and import preset that can be applied to the images taken in your shoot. Then one can compare the "treatment" between a "reference" process and one's own attempts.
Thanks Andy (@ajm057 ) … I guess I’ll have to look carefully into these colour-checker methodologies.
 
I am struggling to follow this topic and thread.
For me (and I assume most) colour profiles are largely used when shooting JPG/TIF or videos . However, since I exclusively shoot RAW my question is how to bring them into my workflow. As previously noted I am not remotely happy with how Adobe treats Nikon Z9 Lossless RAW files, as a result I use DxO Pure RAW to convert Lossless RAW files into DNG and then work on them in LR or PS. At which time I apply a range of presets OR use DxO FilmPack 5 to obtain the "look" I wish to achieve.
@Patrick M - I use reference shots of either a ColorChecker Passport or DataColor Spyder Checkr 24 to ensure that I understand what the "correct" colour is for each of my set ups and to remove guesswork later. This allows one to build an ICC and import preset that can be applied to the images taken in your shoot. Then one can compare the "treatment" between a "reference" process and one's own attempts.
I shoot exclusively raw also. And like you, I create the camera color profile, then save it as either a dng or icc profile on my computer. Then I can use that when processing the raw file. And nothing about the process prevents me from tweaking colors afterwards if I want to!
 
Colour Management is (or at least can be) a complex subject. It involves 3 key elements:
a) capturing colours accurately -- or better described as understanding precisely what colours you are capturing AND being able to use this data later -- this is where reference colour cards like those I described are far more valuable than just using a reference grey card. I only use Adobe RGB color space (so not sRGB) in camera as this records a larger color space than sRGB.
b) viewing the colours you captured accurately - summarised as calibrating your monitor and making sure you do not short circuit your choices - again I go beyond this by selecting monitors that have the largest colour space that I can afford. Only very few of us can afford a production editing monitor (20k+) and so we have to use a monitor that displays a narrower colorspace (and gamut) than we are working with. I choose to work in ProPhoto RGB 16-bit across all my software as this provides the largest color space. Obviously the monitor interpolates between the colours it can display and the colour data in your images AND this is where monitor calibration is so important .... vitally important, particularly when you are "colour grading by eye". I happen to use a colour monkey on my Apple XDR Pro displays and Mac Book Pros also have an older EISO display with built in colour calibration. ALL are calibrated to provide exactly the same colours -- starting with colour temp and profile. SO there should be NO difference when looking at and editing images on my gear.
c) colour managing output - this is by far the most complex area and rightly the last step in the process for me. Often I do not know how an image will be used - viewed on screens I control, viewed on social media, printed by me, printed by 3rd parties. AND when printed the colour cast and response of the paper together with the capabilities of the printer and colour accuracy of the toner/inks has also to be taken into account.
A very long time ago I attended a training session run at the Epson HQ by Aspect 2 and learnt so much in just one day. The simplest step for me is to understand what the impact of simply generating output to be viewed on the web -- which is in sRBG colour space -- does to your image have problem colours when you generate sRGB output that you probably need to address before you generate or export your output? LRC allows one to soft proof an image - so you can eyeball it. BUT PS has powerful proofing, gamut warning and colour replacement tools. These are very important when one has colours in our images that fall far outside the working gamut/space of the printer or monitor and the interpolated colour comes back "just wrong" - some extreme (turquoise/pinks/purple/magenta) can be problematic.
Similarly when printing one has to understand how your printer, the toners/inks and the paper you wish to use will "represent" the colour of your images. This is where one has to be most careful. Fro my FINE ART prints I use a fellow to print my work whose process does this for me. I send him a TIFF file and he "automatically" colour manages his process to generate a precise colour match, including performing a colour map on sample reference print on the paper I selected with the inks in his vast printer as part of each print he generates. AND yes this can be pricey. But that is why I chose a guy whose day job is cultural heritage work. Even getting B&W images to print "properly" is an art.

See Cambridge in Color
 
ajm wrote that Adobe LR and Camera Raw do not work well with RAW Z9 files. I have not seen that myself. I always shoot in raw and adjust the color profile in LR. Sometimes it is necessary to adjust the color temperature in LR. I have tried an older version of DxO Pure RAW but did not find it was a significant improvement to my LR workflow.
 
ajm wrote that Adobe LR and Camera Raw do not work well with RAW Z9 files. I have not seen that myself. I always shoot in raw and adjust the color profile in LR. Sometimes it is necessary to adjust the color temperature in LR. I have tried an older version of DxO Pure RAW but did not find it was a significant improvement to my LR workflow.
Agree. I have used ACR/PS CC on with my raw files AND a custom camera color profile and only encountered serious color casts in a few images due to some very strong orange light from the setting sun.
 
However, since I exclusively shoot RAW my question is how to bring them into my workflow.

Working with the Colorchecker Passport is very easy. I always carry it in case I find myself in unusul conditions such as under trees where there is a green cast. You simply take a shot in the light that you are in then in Lightroom (or now Capture One) you can create a custom profile for that camera and light in a cople of clicks.

Restart LR and the profile is available along with the others that come in LR. If you have more than one camera LR will only display the custom ones for that camera along with the bundled profiles.
 
Colour Management is (or at least can be) a complex subject. It involves 3 key elements:
a) capturing colours accurately -- or better described as understanding precisely what colours you are capturing AND being able to use this data later -- this is where reference colour cards like those I described are far more valuable than just using a reference grey card. I only use Adobe RGB color space (so not sRGB) in camera as this records a larger color space than sRGB.
b) viewing the colours you captured accurately - summarised as calibrating your monitor and making sure you do not short circuit your choices - again I go beyond this by selecting monitors that have the largest colour space that I can afford. Only very few of us can afford a production editing monitor (20k+) and so we have to use a monitor that displays a narrower colorspace (and gamut) than we are working with. I choose to work in ProPhoto RGB 16-bit across all my software as this provides the largest color space. Obviously the monitor interpolates between the colours it can display and the colour data in your images AND this is where monitor calibration is so important .... vitally important, particularly when you are "colour grading by eye". I happen to use a colour monkey on my Apple XDR Pro displays and Mac Book Pros also have an older EISO display with built in colour calibration. ALL are calibrated to provide exactly the same colours -- starting with colour temp and profile. SO there should be NO difference when looking at and editing images on my gear.
c) colour managing output - this is by far the most complex area and rightly the last step in the process for me. Often I do not know how an image will be used - viewed on screens I control, viewed on social media, printed by me, printed by 3rd parties. AND when printed the colour cast and response of the paper together with the capabilities of the printer and colour accuracy of the toner/inks has also to be taken into account.
A very long time ago I attended a training session run at the Epson HQ by Aspect 2 and learnt so much in just one day. The simplest step for me is to understand what the impact of simply generating output to be viewed on the web -- which is in sRBG colour space -- does to your image have problem colours when you generate sRGB output that you probably need to address before you generate or export your output? LRC allows one to soft proof an image - so you can eyeball it. BUT PS has powerful proofing, gamut warning and colour replacement tools. These are very important when one has colours in our images that fall far outside the working gamut/space of the printer or monitor and the interpolated colour comes back "just wrong" - some extreme (turquoise/pinks/purple/magenta) can be problematic.
Similarly when printing one has to understand how your printer, the toners/inks and the paper you wish to use will "represent" the colour of your images. This is where one has to be most careful. Fro my FINE ART prints I use a fellow to print my work whose process does this for me. I send him a TIFF file and he "automatically" colour manages his process to generate a precise colour match, including performing a colour map on sample reference print on the paper I selected with the inks in his vast printer as part of each print he generates. AND yes this can be pricey. But that is why I chose a guy whose day job is cultural heritage work. Even getting B&W images to print "properly" is an art.

See Cambridge in Color

I'll just mention if you are shooting raw, raw files out of the camera Don't have a color space, so if doesn't matter what you assign in camera.the raw converter will assign a color space, for example the develop module of lightroom uses its version of prophoto. Much larger than Adobe rgb. When one exports from the raw converter you can tell it to convert to another color space or keep prophoto. Photoshop has good convert color profile and color management tools.
 
I use DataColor SpyderCHECKR 24 to calibrate my cameras, and Spyder X to calibrate my laptop and monitor. Love them. I have Lightroom presets for each camera/lens combination. The lenses have a small effect, and for zoom lenses, zooming in or out does not matter.
 
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