D850 for bird photography

[Oosty]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter

 

[Lassep]

I spent years taking images primarily of birds with the D850 + battery grip and the 200-500.

The combination is excellent, but you can always improve the kit with some better prime glass should you wish for more resolving power and faster Autofocus.

I since switched to the Sony A9II and then back to Nikon Z9.

Until the Z9, systems like the D5, D850, D500 was the very best you could get in Nikon autofocus wise. Cameras like the Sony A1, Canon R5 and now the Z9 makes things easier by being able to track the birds and their eyes in some instances, but it does not take away the fact that the DSLR systems are powerful tools that can certainly complete with mirrorless systems today.

In some cases the DSLR systems are better, here i am talking about the initial focus acquisition, which is much more reliable on DSLR cameras. As long as you can keep the bird in the crosshairs you can do just as well with the DSLR.

Here is a good link for your friend. Steve´s guide on the D850 helped me quite a lot while i was learning.

Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System: DSLR Edition – Backcountry Gallery Web Store

Here is Steves review of the D850.
https://backcountrygallery.com/nikon-d850-review/

Best of luck to you and your buddy.

Regards
Lasse

 

[DRwyoming]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

The D850 is a fine camera capable of capturing professional grade images of many subjects including birds. But there's no doubt that the latest pro mirrorless cameras have an edge when it comes to AF acquisition and tracking for fast moving subjects like birds in flight. That doesn't mean you can't shoot those subjects with a D850 or other DSLRs and I shot plenty of flying birds with my D850 (and continue to do so with my D5, D500 and Z6 II) but the high end MILCs like the Sony A1, Canon R3 or Nikon Z9 can be an advantage with their sophisticated AF features and high frame rates.

It's very easy to get caught up in the product marketing and believe that without the latest and greatest gear it simply becomes impossible to capture quality images but that's a bit of a trap as there will ALWAYS be another even better camera coming down the road and as photographers we can end up forever chasing the latest technology. Sure if it's in your friend's budget he should pick up one of those top end MILCs and for now at least know he's shooting with one of the best action cameras ever made but if not I wouldn't stop shooting, I'd get out and shoot with that D850 which is a fine camera.

New technology is great but the most important thing is to get out, find subjects in great light and capture images.

 

[NorthernFocus]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Strange way to put it that "he can't compete with Sony images". Sounds like someone looking for an excuse to buy new kit. I say tell him to go for it.

 

[Whiskeyman]

I'm going to be harsh, and say that it's likely not the D850, but your friend, that isn't up to the task. Like you, I'll point to their techniques as the likely issue. Lens quality may also be a factor, but if so, is likely less than technique. The D850 is a perfectly good camera, even though it doesn't possess the latest AF tecnology.

However, if your friend is convinced that the D850 is the problem, there is likely nothing that you can do to convince them otherwise. In that case, and if they still want to participate in their photographic endeavors, let them change systems as they wish, and may they continue to capture the images they want for as long as possible. We have too few days in life let something like this spoil an opportunity to enjoy a small part of it.

 

[jeffnles1]

I tend to agree with NorthernFocus. Sounds like your friend is justifying in his own mind the purchase of a new camera system. Nothing wrong with that, I think many of us go through a similar mental process when making a big purchase. How many of us have trash talked our current automobile when we start wanting a new one? How many times will a guitar player argue with themselves that a new guitar will make them a better player or a fisherman will convince themselves that a new rod or reel will help them catch more and bigger fish? A lot of hobbies that require some level of gear will cause the practitioner to suffer from varying degrees of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I think a lot of us have been there / done that at one point or another.

 

[Sree]

The D850 is more than capable of taking excellent bird photography shots. I have had it for a number of years and it has never failed me to get my target birds. Image quality is also very good, comparable to the latest cameras. However, I used the D850 knowing its limitation when it comes to action shots. It can't compete with the 20fps cameras out in the market now. However don't get me wrong, I have taken numerous flight and action shots with it, except the keeper and "the right moment" shots are less than with my Z9. Whiskeyman has brought out some valid points that I agree with.

Edited: I have shared a few photos here:

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Spoonbill Sandpiper, critically endangered.

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Grey-headed Fish-eagle

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Rusty-naped Pitta

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More a fun shot of the Red Junglefowl

 

[arbitrage]

The D850 is one of the best DSLRs for birds...maybe the best beside the D500 because of the pixel density. Only the D5 and D6 would have a bit better AF but they lack pixels. AF of the D850 is excellent. Put my 1DXII to shame.
As far as IQ...the sensor is second to none so I don't think any Sony sensor is going to outperform it. There are good Sony sensors but nothing that should make the images any better.

Just a small selection out of 1000s of D850 images....

March 25, 2018-8.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
April 04, 2018-4.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
April 14, 2018-2.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
April 15, 2018.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
April 22, 2018.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
May 16, 2018.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
May 29, 2018.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr
July 02, 2018.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr

 

[Butlerkid]

Hmmmm....here are some of my "failed" photos using the D850.... Lenses used are the 500mm/f4, 300 pf, 80-400 AF-S and 600mm f4, but I never hesitated to use any lens on the D850. While zooms with a large focal range (i.e. 200-500, 200-600, etc) are great for walking around, they don't produce the image quality of a fast glass prime.....at least in the past. I think the gap may be narrowing.....

Even the D810 was very good, albeit NOT as good as the D850

 

[FB101]

Like many here, I can vouch for the excellence of the D850 but with one caveat and if that’s what your friend is doing, then I understand the frustration. The D850’s AF struggles with any lens with f:8 or smaller aperture. So the 500pf + 1.4 TC is challenging to use, so is the 200-500 + 1.4 TC (before I get flamed, yes, it works on static subjects well lit, but it doesn’t work well for anything active). If he is shooting with the 1.4 TC on, he needs to remove it for anything but static subjects and crop instead.

For everything else, the D850 works great. But the z9/a1/R3 are better at speedy AF acquisition in some situations, are much better at tracking subject when acquired and give you many convenience features the D850 lacks - so they make it a bit easier in most cases. Which is not the same as saying the D850 isn’t good. The other cameras are just a bit better at compensating for the photographer’s weaknesses (why I got an A1 candidly, I don’t have enough time to keep my skills sharp, the A1 smoothes out the bumps in my road).
And when it comes to image quality, the sensor in the D850 is stellar.

So it boils down to whether he is using the right glass for the outcome he seeks, does he have the right technique and done’s he know how to edit his files to get the end result he wants. Or like Dan mentioned, if he just needs a doctor‘s note to show his wife, stating that he won’t be happy without a z9, just let us know and we can all rewrite our posts accordingly - that’s what friends are for

 

[Abinoone]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter

Well, if the D850 isn't a capable camera for bird photography, then someone should tell all those pros (and amateur enthusiasts) using it for just that! As Steve likes to say, 80% of the reason for a good image lies 2" behind the viewfinder, or something to that effect. Having said that, however, no doubt higher end MILC cameras, like the Z9 and the A1, probably are better for bird in flight photography, as they have faster frame rates and better AF tracking, providing the opportunity for more keepers on the card. Since I don't own either of these cameras, I can't really verify that this is true but reports from other photographers (Steve among them) suggest that this is the case.

 

[splatbass]

I've taken a lot of birds pics, and a ton of BIF pics, with my D850. I find it locks on to AF easily and stays locked on. Just because newer technology has come out it doesn't mean that D850s suddenly suck.

 

[DavidT]

As a former D850 user and now Sony A1 user I don't think I would phrase it like this. I have said it for a year now that the D850 image right out of camera is still the best file I have seen. I can absolutely get an a1 file to look just like the D850 file but the D850 is one hell of a camera for a DSLR. Now can it hang with an A1? Well it depends on how you are judging it. For AF speed, FPS and customization no it can't. For quality of file and sharpness when it nails focus sure it can. The difference for me and how I would guess your friend is using the phrase "can't compete with Sony" I would guess he means the volume of in focus and tack sharp images the Sony glass and cameras can deliver. Even with a grip there is no comparison to 9 frames per second vs 20/30. The amount of unique moments and options that are in focus is worth the price of entry. But when a D850 does nail the image it delivers great results.

 

[Stephen Berger]

It's not a competition. Millions of great BIF cost were taken with the D850. It's one of the best cameras ever made. Yes there's been a leap in technology that makes it simpler to nail focus and to capture longer bursts that can lead to more cool keepers but there's no question that the D850 has and does capture amazing bird/wildlife photos.

 

[Patrick M]

Imho the D850 was and still is, after what, 5 years? The best DSLR in production today.
anyone having issues capturing images needs to review their technique. Nothing personal here, but a great camera is a great camera. Stick me in a Ferrari and I still won’t win races.

 

[Woodyg3]

I don't know what lens your friend is using, but that's the first place to look, in my opinion. When moving from the 200-500 to the 500 PF, I was quite surprised at the huge improvement in autofocus speed and accuracy, as well as increased sharpness overall. It's an old rule of thumb, but I still subscribe to the thought of glass first, body second.

 

[Viathelens]

Obviously there are varied responses to this thread. I own the D850 and the 500PF and the combo works fine when I do. However, when I look at shots from the mirrorless cameras there is a sharpness and brightness that I just don't see in the non-mirrorless cameras. The images just look crisper. I was recently shooting with someone who had the most recent Canon and her images just had better tone than what I was getting. Maybe it's just me. Also, if you want to shoot animals in motion, birds especially, it's hard to beat an auto focus mode that locks on the eye, that mode is a lot quicker than me moving the focus point.

 

[Calson]

There is an inherent limitation with the autofocus systems of DSLR cameras. The light path is not the same with an without the mirror in place. Autofocus fine tuning helps but one can only tune a lens for a specific camera to subject distance and forget about accuracy with a zoom lens. Add a teleconverter ant the AF adjustment needs to change or use the same lens on two different bodies and you need different AF fine tune settings.

Getting the mirror out of the camera is what enables mirrorless cameras to produce better focused images than their DSLR counterparts.

 

[Neil H.]

These 2 reviews could assist here. Aris' images with the D850 plus 500pf are sensational. Take a note of his BIF settings. Shutter is minimum of 1/3200 usually wide open and he floats the ISO. Steve has video of this technique. Almost all the top wildlife photographers have stepped up to mirrorless with Canon, Nikon or Sony. Greedy devils aint they? I'll step up when I can take images like Ari with my D850 & 500PF. May take a while yet!!! Did I mention landscapes, macro and photographing the milkyway, lightning etc etc etc. Image quality is quite brilliant in all the afore mentioned genres.

Nikon D850 Review – Ari Hazeghi Photography

Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/5.6 PF VR field Review – Ari Hazeghi Photography

 

[nikonkelly]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter

I personally had and D500 and also currently have a D850 as well as a Z7... I finally found some settings that work with the Z7 for birds in flight... but my go too set up is the D850 and the 500 PF or 300 PF or even the 200-500... it all depends on the situation. In my opinion there is no other body will do a better job. Not sony, or canon... they may be as good... but certainly no better. it really is in the settings and technique.

 

[Oosty]

Thanks everyone for your comments and input. Your views coincide with my own but I shall keep my counsel unless I'm asked my opinion- I'll do a Dale Carnegie for a while

 

[Oosty]

If he buys an A1 and then complains he can't shoot birds kick him in the . . . lol

I can't see that happening - he's a master of macro and landscape and i think his comments stemmed from frustration rather than gear envy .... anyway, he's a lot bigger than I am.

 

[R.Philip]

It sounds like your friend is not primarily shooting BIF. I don't have mirrorless, but have two D850's. From everyone's feedback, you can't beat the high end mirrorless cameras on focus acquisition for moving objects. If that is what he primarily shoots, then upgrade. Beyond moving objects, the D850, I believe from what I have read, goes toe to toe with the mirrorless or is very close to it. I shoot wildlife and BIF and take it as a challenge to nail sharp BIF with my D850's. Is your friend competing to earn a living? If not, relax and enjoy all the other photography subject matter and take moving subjects as a challenge with his current equipment. If he can't do that, it looks like it is time to spend some money.

 

[Walter Baliero]

Great comment from Whiskeyman, completely agree. I'm a bird photographer and a big fan of the D850, which I use with a 500mm f/4 + Tc 1.4 all the time. Regarding the subject of focusing, there are many variables that can influence the speed or accuracy of these matters, which can be a solution or a problem without the influence of the gadget, but of the skills of the photographer. Without a doubt, both, cameras and lenses improve every day, but to say that the D850 "isn't up to the task" makes me suspect that whoever says it is not very knowledgeable or is simply influenced by new technologies. Here is a portrait of one of my photos of condors in the Andes mountains of Chile.

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[Roaring 40s]

The lack of an easily handheld 600mm is to my mind the main con to a D850 for birds.
Sony was smart putting out the FE 200-600 but took it's time about it. All those years of adapted glass, ugh.
But it's always a matter of trade-offs, not absolutes. Sony has the easy AF rep but that wasn't deserved with small static birds until the A1.