D850 for bird photography

[Doug Herr]

... seldom mentioned in posts about "Sony" photo gear is that the great camera costs $7000 and the great lens costs as much or more. In terms of value the D500 with the 200-500mm lens cannot be surpassed for getting into wildlife photography. Same applies at this time with the D850 which sells for less than half the amount for a Sony a1.

A Sony camera more comparable to the D850 is the a7rIII, which was introduced the same year the D850 was. A new D850 is now about US$2800, a new a7rIII is now about US$2200. The a1 plays in a completely different league, more comparable to the Z9 than to the D850. I found the a7rIII good for BIF of predictable birds like herons and waterfowl, which were described in one of the above posts as challenging but possible with the D850. Small erratic birds are another game entirely and that's where the a1 and comparable Nikon and Canon cameras excel. Note that these Nikon and Canon cameras also cost considerably more than the D850, while the a7rIII costs less than the D850.

 

[O]

I spent years taking images primarily of birds with the D850 + battery grip and the 200-500.

The combination is excellent, but you can always improve the kit with some better prime glass should you wish for more resolving power and faster Autofocus.

I since switched to the Sony A9II and then back to Nikon Z9.

Until the Z9, systems like the D5, D850, D500 was the very best you could get in Nikon autofocus wise. Cameras like the Sony A1, Canon R5 and now the Z9 makes things easier by being able to track the birds and their eyes in some instances, but it does not take away the fact that the DSLR systems are powerful tools that can certainly complete with mirrorless systems today.

In some cases the DSLR systems are better, here i am talking about the initial focus acquisition, which is much more reliable on DSLR cameras. As long as you can keep the bird in the crosshairs you can do just as well with the DSLR.

Here is a good link for your friend. Steve´s guide on the D850 helped me quite a lot while i was learning.

Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System: DSLR Edition – Backcountry Gallery Web Store

Here is Steves review of the D850.
https://backcountrygallery.com/nikon-d850-review/

Best of luck to you and your buddy.

Regards
Lasse

THANK-YOU

Mirror less cameras have brought some innovative features to the table but its not the end all to everything YET.

DSLRS have been vilified or cast as being obsolete even announced that production will cease, i can understand that to a point, its more profitable building mirror less gear and its the onely path to survive as the industyr transions to the video future.

The obsession with BIF tracking eye tracking is one thing, the real benefit of a eye tracking and tracking is more for video the real future direction of the industry, its been complemented with glass to suite.

If i need absolute stickiness, total reliability, better colour at high iso, or i shoot in critical low light challenging conditions for fast moving subjects i use the D6 period.

I have never had an issue or been dissapointed with a D850 or D6 D5 D4s D4 D3s, in fact for greater reliability locking on a subject with a complexed back ground i even use my Z9 like a DSLR so i am in control. This issue seems to be a mirror less challenge not isolated to a Z9.

My take away on my Z9 .........

optional fast frame rate at high resolution of 45mp,
unlimited shutter use,
silent shutter,
tracking has its benefits in uideal conditions but i feel has a way to go still but its not the reason i bought a Z9

everything else i marketing or secondary.

The D850 and D6 are a pinical point, as long you keep the cross hairs on the subject you cant loose.

I think the DSLR glass makes DSLRS appear more obsolete than anything.



Only an opinion

 

[vickivit]

The a1 + 600 GM will struggle to find a bird if the bird is small in the image area and background is busy. In practical terms a background that is too busy for the camera to find the bird is too busy for a pleasing photo.

The a1, once it finds the bird (very quickly IMHO) will track it over the entire image area, and will even maintain focus on the bird when it's briefly outside the image area.

The problem with 20 frames/sec is too many photos that are in focus. Much harder to cull. The advantage is that with so many in-focus photos to choose from you can pick the wing position you want; you won't be thinking "I love the wing position in this image, I wish the focus was better". Accurate focus will not be a problem, assuming you want the eye to be in focus not the near wingtip.

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all photos hand-held, no supplementary grip on the camera.

Thanks for your comments, very helpful

 

[Roy]

Thanks for this thread, Have found the opinions and comments helpful. Posting to focus on a couple of areas as I am near to potentially making a significant investment in mirrorless , likely a Sony A1/ prime 600mmlens. Reason for Sony…..at times will need to hand hold…..the current Nikon mirrorless camera/ 600mm lens options are too heavy for me personally

Currently shoot mainly with a D850/500 PF lens. For most of the images I take, I love this camera/lens combo.

During the past year I have been drawn more and more towards taking BIF images. With much practice and many hours of shooting I have several images that are high quality/ tack sharp . On the concern side, my hit rate is very low and my keepers are predominately (almost exclusively) of larger birds. The D850 seems to go in and out of focus even when I keep the larger birds centered on the focusing point(s) . With smaller faster birds (ducks for example) whether I use a single focus point or Group Area AF mode (4 focus points) I am often unable to keep the bird in the area of the focus point(s). However, I can consistently (but not perfectly) keep the faster birds in the viewfinder. I acknowledge that if my hand eye co-ordination was better I would have more keepers.. The reality of it is that I have practiced and I don't expect that my ability to keep a fast moving bird in a particular area of the frame is going to see further improvement

I would appreciate feedback from Sony A-1 users regarding the following questions.

..When using the A1 for BIF photography is there a noticeable advantage in terms of obtaining initial focus (compared to D850 or similar)? Note - most of the time the birds I’m shooting have a background of trees, cattails....something other than the sky.

..If the bird is somewhere other than the far periphery of the frame does the A-1 generally hold the focus well or does focus continually pop in and out?


Any comments or thoughts would be truly appreciated.

Its not a problem with just the A1 but many mirrorless cameras sometimes have trouble gaining focus on a target if the lens is focused at infinity.
If the lens is at infinity the bird can be a total blur and the camera may not see it.
This is just a small disadvantage of contrast detect over DSLR phase detect.
Either the D850 or A1 are fantastic cameras.
Although I love the 600mm lens focal length and f4 and the Sony 600mm lens at 3040g is a little lighter than the AFS 600mm - The Sony 600mm is more than twice the weight of the 500mm pf.

 

[Doug Herr]

Its not a problem with just the A1 but many mirrorless cameras sometimes have trouble gaining focus on a target if the lens is focused at infinity.
If the lens is at infinity the bird can be a total blur and the camera may not see it.
This is just a small disadvantage of contrast detect over DSLR phase detect.

The a1 uses a hybrid phase/contrast system. Phase-detect for getting the focus close then switching to contrast-detect for precise focus. A DSLR using phase-detect only needs AF micro adjustment to get closer to precise focus.

 

[Isaac Grant]

Just wanted to chime in on this topic. I owned and shot the D850 for years. It is an amazing camera but for me its time has come and gone. I have thousands of photos I still have not processed from my D850. It is more than capable of capturing BIF and anything else. As has been stated the thing is that the newer mirrorless cameras like the A1 are better in almost every way except image quality which I think is about a wash. The auto focus is much more accurate, the speed allows you to capture far more sharp images, the ability to see your exposure in camera produces far more accurately exposed shots, the silent shutter is a total game changer for anything that is in close and wary of sounds (d850 was really loud and I scared loads of birds with the shutter) and the ability to have 90 something percent of the sensor to compose a shot makes such a difference for composition. With repeated opportunities you will eventually get almost any shot with a D850. But as we all know birds are difficult, erratic and unpredictable. And certain moments happen only once and if you want the best tool in your hands to capture the moment then the D850 (or any dslr for that matter) is not the best in my opinion. So while I agree that the D850 is an amazing camera I also agree that you can not compete against the newer cameras like the A1 with it. If you are photographing large and slow birds like eagles and herons and stuff like that then the d850 is more than enough camera. But when you are looking to photograph smaller and faster birds (especially in flight) and will not have repeated opportunities then there is no question that you will have a significantly higher hit rate with an A1 or Z9 or R3. It is not that you can't get the shot with a D850 it is just that with so many factors at a disadvantage that you will have a much lower success rate. The A1 has changed my whole philosophy when out in the field. I now try and photograph every species in flight, no matter how small and have had lots of success. I can't show images here but if you follow the link to my Instagram page you can see examples of plenty of small and fast birds captured in flight. Most with the A1 but a few with the D850 have been posted.

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[Patrick M]

Don’t forget that the D500 is quite superb fir BIF without the expense of the a1, Z9 etc … especially if one is already invested in F lenses.