D850 for bird photography

[O]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter

I agree with the comment here in made that your friend may just be looking for an excuse to buy a new camera.

In my competitive motocross and enduro racing days, i would often hear "need to buy a newer up dated model to be able to keep up".

If you cant get brilliant results on a D850 then one needs to look in the mirror for answers.

My self i get fully same satisfying results regardless of the camera, except at the moment with the Z9, its a complicated to different very techi camera that takes me somewhat away from photography mentally, now that's just me, i prefer the simple relaxed version of the D850 D6 still, i guess over time things will change.
One is a camera the other is a vido camera that also takes stills..........you need to do a course or be more a geek to get the best out of it and then still the D6 out shines in extreme sports action in very challenging conditions.

 

[Neil H.]

<- not a pro
I liked the D850 for Milky Way photos. One of these days the skies will cooperate and I can try my Sony equipment at night but I enjoyed dslr just the same at night. I think technique is the key to night photos and a decent fast wide lens.

Basalt Columns at Night by David Hutson, on Flickr

Lovely! I've just got a tracker. Alignment with Photopils on my iPhone with MSM attachment was a game changer for the southern hemisphere.

 

[Roy]

A good friend has virtually packed up bird photography and has the view that his D850 isn't up to the task. He is a very capable and experienced photographer but feels that he can't compete with Sony images. My view is that the differences may come down to technique and glass before blaming the equipment - any ideas, suggestions and ideal combinations for the D850

As a D500 +200-500 dilettante I'm not in a position to make any comments of substance but I find it hard to believe that the D850 is "not good enough"

Links would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter

A bad photographer blames his tools.
The D850 has to be one of if not the best DSLR ever made.
If shooting video then mirrorless would be easier but for stills I still like my D850 bodies over my Sony A7 or Nikon Z.
Most people would benefit from working on their technique instead of their bank account.
The D500 and 200-500mm combo is an excellent choice and would have been unimaginable a couple of years ago

 

[Roaring 40s]

500mm isn't really enough on a FF sensor. For birds 600mm is the price of entry, so for handheld you're looking at Sigma or Tamron. They're good at the long end but not sparkling. Or else you're looking at f8 with Nikon and a 1.4xTC and the compromise to AF and subject isolation that that brings.
When you look at the number of bird images on the forum made with a D850, you would conclude that many don't regard it as optimal.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I have shot a lot of bird wall hangers with my D850 and various lenses including my current favorite 600 mm f/4 E, also 500 pf, Tamron 150-600 G2, Sigma 150-600 and 60-600 Sport and the old venerable Bigma the Sigma 50-500. My Z9 arrived this afternoon and just got original set up underway. 800pf on preorder seem like the Z9 and 800 pf should be a birders dream but will have to wait and see.

 

[LTK]

Before going Sony the D850 200-500 was my walk around camera , the lens wasn't exactly the fastest or sharpest out there but I thought it did well for BIF , just required a little patience . I was always cropping often quite heavy

_DSC1703 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_DSC1695 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_DSC2350_DxO-1 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_85087871 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_8509898 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

 

[O]

Before going Sony the D850 200-500 was my walk around camera , the lens wasn't exactly the fastest or sharpest out there but I thought it did well for BIF , just required a little patience . I was always cropping often quite heavy

_DSC1703 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_DSC1695 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_DSC2350_DxO-1 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_85087871 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

_8509898 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

Excellent images, your a photographer and have skill sets still LOL, while i have a Z9 Video Camera and sometimes wonder why, i find the D850 on the 200-500 especially around f8 plus is so easy and enjoyable to use.

I ask in these shots what would a Z9 or A1 or R3 auto tracking do different here, other than higher FPS.

I feel that auto tracking from ANY BRAND is still a long way from perfect, i think the auto tracking etc at the moment seems more like 70% perception 30% reality. I understand there are tutorials books lessons....and they help and work but gee......whiz what a challenge for some people including me, i can rise to it but i don't enjoy it, i mean unless you use software short cuts every day you often forget them.

I have perfect images eye face head on point from a D3X D4s D850 D6 150-500 Sigma, 200-500, 300 2.8, 600 f4, 28-300 LOL. Yes the Mirror less cameras will get better as they have to but gee in cases like the Z9 it seems so complicated.

To me photography is all about Light, Time, and Speed.........the rest is the eye and composition, telling a story, making a connection and evoking emotion for the viewer, topped off with a Wow factor.

This can be achieved with any camera and lens as its mostly all about you.............

Above all photography needs to be enjoyable not a computer science journey.

Apples success with their IPhone's comes from a consistently simple user friendly platform.

Only an opinion

 

[Mark Garfinkel]

Great comment from Whiskeyman, completely agree. I'm a bird photographer and a big fan of the D850, which I use with a 500mm f/4 + Tc 1.4 all the time. Regarding the subject of focusing, there are many variables that can influence the speed or accuracy of this matter, which can be a solution or a problem without the influence of the gadget, but of the skills of the photographer. Without a doubt, both, cameras and lenses improve every day, but to say that the D850 "isn't up to the task" makes me suspect that whoever says it is not very knowledgeable or is simply influenced by new technologies. Here is a portrait of one of my photos of condors in the Andes mountains of Chile.View attachment 36389View attachment 36390

Great shots, wish we had birds like that around here.

 

[O]

An A1 is ridiculously easy to use. I use 3 non tracking focus areas. Zone is my go to focus area so I leave it there until I need to go wide or center fixed. A couple customized buttons to hold tracking or manual focus and that’s about as complex as it gets for me.
my normal familiar exposure settings, point and shoot.

excellent to hear thank you, i think its said Sony has come from the worst to the best with menu settings.

 

[Rick S]

I'll add a few to support the D850.

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[Neil H.]

???

Sorry! Move Shoot Move produces the smallest and cheapest star tracker on the market. The issue in the southern hemisphere is that we do not have a prominant star to aim at. When I saw a few videos on using Photopils on the iPhone to do an alignment I jumped right in. However, beware that to calibrate the phone you need to be at the spot you want to shoot then use either the moon or the sun to calibrate the ap. This is not always possible if photographing the Milkyway on a moonless night. However if you are using a wide angled lens - 2 min exposures work well. I think there is a "work around" to get a more accurate alignment. I looks like the Photopils ap. is spot on for the vertical axis (Your latitude in degrees). It appears that the ap uses the phone compass to get N. For me near Melbourne, Australia - this is 11 degrees out. This is still a work in progress but I got beautiful nebulosity in the milkyway and spot stars with no trails at 2min exposures.
Here is a link to the phone attachment. There are a whole series on the MSM tracker if you google it or start from their website. Alyn Wallace does a review and has designed some nifty V and Z brackets that you can see on the MSM website. MSM are super helpful if you contact them.

 

[LTK]

Excellent images, your a photographer and have skill sets still LOL, while i have a Z9 Video Camera and sometimes wonder why, i find the D850 on the 200-500 especially around f8 plus is so easy and enjoyable to use.

I ask in these shots what would a Z9 or A1 or R3 auto tracking do different here, other than higher FPS.

I feel that auto tracking from ANY BRAND is still a long way from perfect, i think the auto tracking etc at the moment seems more like 70% perception 30% reality. I understand there are tutorials books lessons....and they help and work but gee......whiz what a challenge for some people including me, i can rise to it but i don't enjoy it, i mean unless you use software short cuts every day you often forget them.

I have perfect images eye face head on point from a D3X D4s D850 D6 150-500 Sigma, 200-500, 300 2.8, 600 f4, 28-300 LOL. Yes the Mirror less cameras will get better as they have to but gee in cases like the Z9 it seems so complicated.

To me photography is all about Light, Time, and Speed.........the rest is the eye and composition, telling a story, making a connection and evoking emotion for the viewer, topped off with a Wow factor.

This can be achieved with any camera and lens as its mostly all about you.............

Above all photography needs to be enjoyable not a computer science journey.

Apples success with their IPhone's comes from a consistently simple user friendly platform.

Only an opinion

When you nail shots with D850 200-500 or A1 200-600 I wouldn't say there's much difference in IQ . Biggest difference is probably down to lenses , both 200-500 and 200-600 are a little slow imo, definitely lacks the speed of the primes especially for those required fast micro adjustments for BIF . I notice with the 200-600 even with the A1 I get a few BIF which are not tack sharp but having those higher fps can be useful , its closer but its like the lens motors aren't quick enough to keep up with the adjustments needed even with good handheld panning . The Sony 200-600 is quicker than my Nikon 200-500 , I often had to help the 200-500 with my thumb on the lens focus ring using manual focus over ride just to speed things up .
I still have the D850 but use it for landscape , in use for wildlife I prefer the Sony A1 but that's mainly for silent shooting , often the noisy shutter of my D850 would scare off skittish subjects when close .
I have friends that's gone from DSLR to Sony and Canon mirrorless and hate them finding everything too complicated , I personally like the customisation of the Sony and tracking capabilities but understand why some can't get on with it .
I am still curious about the Z9 , I hope to try one before staying committed to Sony and buying a 600mm f4

 

[Neil H.]

Thanks I will have to check it out. I am still just doing 15 seconds exposures and stacking. Keep entertaining the idea of a tracker but haven't done so yet.

I'm not too far in front of you, but was put off by alignment problems in the S hemisphere. I am also pushing the small tracker by using my gripped D850 with an L-bracket. A smaller mirrorless camera would be much lighter on this small mount. However, I set it up so that the tracker moves from five minutes to twelve to midnight. This means that my heavy rig is leaning so it tightens the attachment screw as it rotates. If it goes past midnight then the weight of the camera can unscrew the attachment. This re-setting is still OK as it allows quite a few 2 min exposures. I then use one of the Z brackets to set it back a few degrees and go again. It may actually be a good idea to do this as the tracker will be moving in the same arc , giving similar images to align. If the tracker goes too far you have a bigger blurred foreground to attend with. The foreground has to be done separately with the tracker off.

 

[O]

An A1 is ridiculously easy to use. I use 3 non tracking focus areas. Zone is my go to focus area so I leave it there until I need to go wide or center fixed. A couple customized buttons to hold tracking or manual focus and that’s about as complex as it gets for me.
my normal familiar exposure settings, point and shoot.

Then I wish Nikon would have copied the menu of the A1 somewhat rather than have someone behind the desk politically influenced design the menu and then try to repair redesign it in the field, i mean really Nikon is very internally political at times and it shows there is some powerful influences effecting getting simple things right or a portion of incompetence somewhere.
I remember and old saying if your not into software you will struggle to win or keep up.
Apple is a classical example, simple reliable easy to use draws massive appeal with trust, they then back it up with great service.

Nikon has great service just i assume the design team must be influenced or just not capable in areas...........The Z9 is a very nice camera but why stick it with an incompetent difficult to generally use menu. We are not all super Geeks. Its like they rushed the Z9 then threw in some that will do software menu and marketed the hell out of it, then trying to finish it in the filed. I don't really understand it, i love Nikon menu's and software till i got a Z9, yes some can get threw it easy most cant, its complexity detracts seriously from enjoying photography for myself and many others i know...........maybe they planed the Z9 fro the future generations a little to early LOL.
Pros using it every day all day may get used to it like LR PS etc and that's fine..........but not for the masses.
I tend to grab the D850 or D6 over the Z9 when i go out more often than not especially if its a critical shoot as i know i will get the shots. I mean i have a low passion for stuffing around with endless settings, maybe its psychosomatic......but until things change or improve for myself the Ebay is looking very tempting. I am not a Geekish photographer.
I have 100% success and relaxed enjoyment with a D850 D6..............that lets me focus on the art of photography...........in a nut shell it shouldn't be like this.

 

[O]

When you nail shots with D850 200-500 or A1 200-600 I wouldn't say there's much difference in IQ . Biggest difference is probably down to lenses , both 200-500 and 200-600 are a little slow imo, definitely lacks the speed of the primes especially for those required fast micro adjustments for BIF . I notice with the 200-600 even with the A1 I get a few BIF which are not tack sharp but having those higher fps can be useful , its closer but its like the lens motors aren't quick enough to keep up with the adjustments needed even with good handheld panning . The Sony 200-600 is quicker than my Nikon 200-500 , I often had to help the 200-500 with my thumb on the lens focus ring using manual focus over ride just to speed things up .
I still have the D850 but use it for landscape , in use for wildlife I prefer the Sony A1 but that's mainly for silent shooting , often the noisy shutter of my D850 would scare off skittish subjects when close .
I have friends that's gone from DSLR to Sony and Canon mirrorless and hate them finding everything too complicated , I personally like the customisation of the Sony and tracking capabilities but understand why some can't get on with it .
I am still curious about the Z9 , I hope to try one before staying committed to Sony and buying a 600mm f4

That's great feed back, thank you, i find the 200-500 is very useful, a great all rounder, it dose 90% opf what the exotics do, if at 500mm all the time the PF is also very good, but not a lot of difference images wise just lighter smaller a little more responsive, but insainly expensive for what it is.

I find the 200-500 really woks better or its sweet spot is around F8 and even improves at F10, i guess for those who want to shoot wide open F5.6 or lower light it maybe a little less perfect.
Like a Flash, light offers sharpness and detail............ so goo d light really works brilliantly on the lens.
But for me 95% of applications it dose really well.
I measure it by its magnification ratio of 2.5 to 1, compared say to a 150-600 is 4 to 1 200-600 is 3 to 1 a 28-300 is 10.71 to 1.....etc.
I find the D850 is just well perfect as is the D6. Safe reliable easy to use good keeper rate.
The Z9 i have is very nice and very good for speed, image quality is similar although i like the D850 for landscapes etc, The Z9 is like a brilliant sports car just an issue with a complicated gear box so to speak or complicated electronics that takes away from enjoying driving it.

I am not investing into Z glass till i master the Z9 if at all soon,.........i want a camera not computer that's me.
If Canons R1 is simple and easy to use then defiantly as i have always said that is the life raft.

 

[DaveF2.8]

The D850 is more than capable of taking excellent bird photography shots. I have had it for a number of years and it has never failed me to get my target birds. Image quality is also very good, comparable to the latest cameras. However, I used the D850 knowing its limitation when it comes to action shots. It can't compete with the 20fps cameras out in the market now. However don't get me wrong, I have taken numerous flight and action shots with it, except the keeper and "the right moment" shots are less than with my Z9. Whiskeyman has brought out some valid points that I agree with.

Edited: I have shared a few photos here:

View attachment 36029
Spoonbill Sandpiper, critically endangered.

View attachment 36030
Grey-headed Fish-eagle

View attachment 36031
Rusty-naped Pitta

View attachment 36032
More a fun shot of the Red Junglefowl

Nice shots

 

[O]

When you nail shots with D850 200-500 or A1 200-600 I wouldn't say there's much difference in IQ . Biggest difference is probably down to lenses , both 200-500 and 200-600 are a little slow imo, definitely lacks the speed of the primes especially for those required fast micro adjustments for BIF . I notice with the 200-600 even with the A1 I get a few BIF which are not tack sharp but having those higher fps can be useful , its closer but its like the lens motors aren't quick enough to keep up with the adjustments needed even with good handheld panning . The Sony 200-600 is quicker than my Nikon 200-500 , I often had to help the 200-500 with my thumb on the lens focus ring using manual focus over ride just to speed things up .
I still have the D850 but use it for landscape , in use for wildlife I prefer the Sony A1 but that's mainly for silent shooting , often the noisy shutter of my D850 would scare off skittish subjects when close .
I have friends that's gone from DSLR to Sony and Canon mirrorless and hate them finding everything too complicated , I personally like the customisation of the Sony and tracking capabilities but understand why some can't get on with it .
I am still curious about the Z9 , I hope to try one before staying committed to Sony and buying a 600mm f4

I think change is often resisted or challenging in cases, example my new smart TV i was ready to throw it out as the remote control and software was so so complicated.
Time was the antidote, now its a breeze but it took a while LOL.

The issue with high end mirror less cameras that people all complain about that they are to complicated to use...is an issue, unlike a TV you sit and watch when done, with the Cameras your emotionally charged, you looking for that composition, opportunity, you being in many cases creative as a photographer and all of a sudden incomes 101 short cuts and pre sets that seem like the bible crammed onto a postage stamp with a 1000 page instruction book you need to study to pass the degree required to understand how to use the dam thing......ok a little over the top but you get the gist.

I think there are more documentors or recorders out there than photographers.
I embrace new technology, but gee its nice to have a Ferrari but if you need a degree on how to use the electronic gear box differently on every corner or hill then it can take away from the enjoyment of driving.
Is the problem bigger than it seems, absolutely.
Many people take to it like a duck to water, many more don't.
Some people do their own coding building a web site the vast majority don't.
I am setting up the Z9 like a normal every day camera D850 D6 etc simple i am in control.

Then i am having one button that kicks in 3d auto tracking...........no more no less.
I will enjoy the option of up to 20 fps, but i don't want to get into 11 presets options as i wont remember them 90% of the time, and that's just me, that's not the fault of the camera or is it.
The Z9 is a great camera, love the image files and speed...........that's about all so far. Its like a D850 at 20 fps LOL
Thats my ramble for today

 

[LTK]

I don't understand how the 200-600 would ever be accused of slow AF, maybe yours needs work?

I have mine dumbed down to the bare essentials for my needs making it the easiest camera I have ever used. It took a little time getting it set up that way though.

I only find it a little slow for getting tack sharp shots of fast moving BIF , larger birds are not bad but smaller ones for me I find the lens can struggle a little to keep up with the A1 , for the price its a good lens. I'd love a GM version with twin focus motors and manual focus over ride , I'd certainly pay extra for it
A1 200-600 works well for birds like this Puffin

_LTK0182 by leon kirkbride, on Flickr

 

[LTK]

It’s been 4 years since it was released I would not be surprised to see a new revision like Sony is doing with other lenses.
Beautiful Puffin!

Hopefully they do , I've tried a friends 600mm f4 GM and was amazed at the speed and sharpness . I can live without the f4 just find it a little frustrating at times when the 200-600 can be a little off , its certainly not terrible but more noticeable with the 50mp's . I've been waiting as much as I can before getting the 600mm f4 GM, just need to be sure I'm sticking with Sony before committing to the prime

 

[vickivit]

Thanks for this thread, Have found the opinions and comments helpful. Posting to focus on a couple of areas as I am near to potentially making a significant investment in mirrorless , likely a Sony A1/ prime 600mmlens. Reason for Sony…..at times will need to hand hold…..the current Nikon mirrorless camera/ 600mm lens options are too heavy for me personally

Currently shoot mainly with a D850/500 PF lens. For most of the images I take, I love this camera/lens combo.

During the past year I have been drawn more and more towards taking BIF images. With much practice and many hours of shooting I have several images that are high quality/ tack sharp . On the concern side, my hit rate is very low and my keepers are predominately (almost exclusively) of larger birds. The D850 seems to go in and out of focus even when I keep the larger birds centered on the focusing point(s) . With smaller faster birds (ducks for example) whether I use a single focus point or Group Area AF mode (4 focus points) I am often unable to keep the bird in the area of the focus point(s). However, I can consistently (but not perfectly) keep the faster birds in the viewfinder. I acknowledge that if my hand eye co-ordination was better I would have more keepers.. The reality of it is that I have practiced and I don't expect that my ability to keep a fast moving bird in a particular area of the frame is going to see further improvement

I would appreciate feedback from Sony A-1 users regarding the following questions.

..When using the A1 for BIF photography is there a noticeable advantage in terms of obtaining initial focus (compared to D850 or similar)? Note - most of the time the birds I’m shooting have a background of trees, cattails....something other than the sky.

..If the bird is somewhere other than the far periphery of the frame does the A-1 generally hold the focus well or does focus continually pop in and out?


Any comments or thoughts would be truly appreciated.

 

[DougC]

Sounds like an excuse to buy new equipment to me. No problem with that, just be honest about it.

 

[Doug Herr]

I have found the comments in this string helpful as I am near to making a significant investment in mirrorless, likely an A1 with a prime 600mm Sony lens. Reason for Sony…..at times will need to hand hold…..the current Nikon options are just too heavy for me personally

Currently shooting mainly with a D850/500 PF lens. I love this camera lens combo. It is my standard of comparison

Taking more and more BIF pictures nowadays. I have practiced and practiced with BIF and my D850. While I have many excellent tack sharp pictures my hit rate is quite low……the faster and smaller the bird, the lower the hit rate. Whether I use a single focus point or Group Area AF mode (which is intended to focus on whatever is closest in the area of 4 focus points) I unable to keep the bird always in the area of the focus point(s). However, I can consistently (but not perfectly) keep the bird in the viewfinder. If I had stellar eye to hand co-ordination, admittedly my results would be better

I would appreciate feedback on the following questions from A1 users.

With an A1 and a bird in flight is there a noticeable advantage using the A1 with initially getting the bird in Focus? (most of the time the birds I’m shooting have a background of trees, cattails, something other than the sky if that makes a difference)

If the bird is somewhere other than close to the edge of the frame, does the A-1 generally hold the focus well or would it be constantly popping in and out?

Is the main advantage of the A-1 really that during those brief moments when the bird in flight is in sharp focus that I would be shooting at 20-30 frames per second, rather than 7 (and would therefore have more images to chose from)?

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

The a1 + 600 GM will struggle to find a bird if the bird is small in the image area and background is busy. In practical terms a background that is too busy for the camera to find the bird is too busy for a pleasing photo.

The a1, once it finds the bird (very quickly IMHO) will track it over the entire image area, and will even maintain focus on the bird when it's briefly outside the image area.

The problem with 20 frames/sec is too many photos that are in focus. Much harder to cull. The advantage is that with so many in-focus photos to choose from you can pick the wing position you want; you won't be thinking "I love the wing position in this image, I wish the focus was better". Accurate focus will not be a problem, assuming you want the eye to be in focus not the near wingtip.

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all photos hand-held, no supplementary grip on the camera.

 

[Abinoone]

I have found the comments in this string helpful as I am near to making a significant investment in mirrorless, likely an Sony A1 with a prime 600mmlens. Reason for Sony…..at times will need to hand hold…..the current Nikon mirrorless camera, 600mm lens options are too heavy for me personally

Currently shoot mainly with a D850/500 PF lens. For most of the images I take, I love this camera/lens combo.

During the past year I have been drawn more and more towards BIF. With much practice and hours/hours of shooting I have several high quality, tack sharp BIF images,. On the concern side, my hit rate is very low and my keepers are predominately (almost exclusively) of larger birds. The D850 seems to go in and out of focus even when I keep the larger birds centered on the focusing point(s) . With smaller faster birds (ducks for example) whether I use a single focus point or Group Area AF mode (which is intended to focus on whatever is closest in the area of 4 focus points) I am often unable to keep the bird in the area of the focus point(s). However, I can consistently (but not perfectly) keep the faster birds in the viewfinder. I acknowledge that f my hand eye co-ordination was better I would have more keepers.. The reality of it is that .I have practiced and I don't expect that my ability to keep a fast moving bird in a particular area of the frame is going to see further improvement

I would appreciate feedback from Sony A-1 users re the following questions.

..When using the A1 for BIF photography is there a noticeable advantage in terms of obtaining initial focus (compared to D850 or similar)? Note - most of the time the birds I’m shooting have a background of trees, cattails....something other than the sky.

..If the bird is somewhere other than the far periphery of the frame does the A-1 generally hold the focus well or does focus continually pop in and out?

..Is the main advantage of the A-1 mostly frame rate.? In other words during those moments when the bird in flight is in sharp focus is the primary advantage of mirrorless that the camera is taking 20 fps rather than than 7 ( providing more images to chose from)?

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

I can’t comment on the Sony A1, as I’ve never used one (except in a store), but I can say that the D850 is excellent for BIF, depending on the lens being used and its AF speed. Group AF is a great choice for BIF, provided your subject is the closer bird, and somewhat isolated. Faster birds, such as Pintails, are definitely a challenge but with lots of practice you can nail the shot, and I often have. Some folks with newer mirrorless camera, such as the A1 and Z9, probably wI’ll argue that the advanced AF and faster frame rate will help you capture more sharp BIFs, and they probably are right, but lots of photographers have been doing so with DSLRs for many years. Nonetheless, if you’re looking for justification to buy a new camera/lens combo, I’d just say go for it, if that’s what you want.

 

[Calson]

I bought my first Nikon DSLR in 2002 and over the years the ISO performance, resolution, and autofocus capiblities have improved. A big change in AF performance with the D3 in 2007 and 10 years later with the D5/D850/D500 cameras introduced in 2017 with their new AF systems and dedicated AF processor. But they all suffered from the difference in the light path to the sensor when the mirror was up as compared to the path to the AF sensors with the mirror down. Autofocus fine tuning was introduced but it was a band-air solution as one needed to adjust for a pre-determined camera to subject distance and with zoom lenses to the longest focal length with the lens.

The drawbacks with the mirrorless was the limitations with the electronic viewfinders and with the need for in-camera image stabilization. Olympus and Sony had a head start on Canon and Nikon. But seldom mentioned in posts about "Sony" photo gear is that the great camera costs $7000 and the great lens costs as much or more. In terms of value the D500 with the 200-500mm lens cannot be surpassed for getting into wildlife photography. Same applies at this time with the D850 which sells for less than half the amount for a Sony a1.

The big leap forward is eye detection autofocus and at this point in time it appears that the best camera in this one aspect is the Z9. The Z9 though has been very difficult to find and not inexpensive at $12,000 to buy two bodies. I want two cameras that can use one set of lenses to have a backup and to minimize lens changes in the field. The lack of a uniform user interface has plagued Nikon shooters for the past 20 years and it has not improved with the Z7 and Z9 cameras. It reminds me of GM cars in the 1980's where the switch for the headlights was in different locations and different switch types were used for Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick vehicles.

It is not only with tracking where the Z9 eye detection is a very big deal. I was photographing small woodpeckers in the trees and they were surrounded by small branches. With the D850/D5/D500 I would have been using manual focus as autofocus would have latched onto a branch where the contrast was greater. With the Z9 it tracked the birds' eyes and I got shots that would not have been possible with any other Nikon camera. But this was with small birds and no such gains if I was photographing bears, bison, jaguars, otters, etc. in the wild.

 

[Doug Herr]

I can’t comment on the Sony A1, as I’ve never used one (except in a store), but I can say that the D850 is excellent for BIF, depending on the lens being used and its AF speed. Group AF is a great choice for BIF, provided your subject is the closer bird, and somewhat isolated. Faster birds, such as Pintails, are definitely a challenge but with lots of practice you can nail the shot, and I often have. Some folks with newer mirrorless camera, such as the A1 and Z9, probably wI’ll argue that the advanced AF and faster frame rate will help you capture more sharp BIFs, and they probably are right, but lots of photographers have been doing so with DSLRs for many years. Nonetheless, if you’re looking for justification to buy a new camera/lens combo, I’d just say go for it, if that’s what you want.

Birds like pintails and shovelers are not difficult with the a7rIII, which was introduced in 2017 a few months after the D850.

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Small, fast erratic birds like the phainopepla are more challenging than ducks and for these birds the a1 is a game-changer.