Do you share the location of your favorite spots?

[Larry S.]

That’s exactly right!

Thank you!

 

[sh1209]

Thank you!

I just don’t feel the need to disclose places I’ve spent hundred of hours scoping out to every photographer in the area and can’t for the life of me even fathom the thought of that being egotistical lol.

 

[Larry S.]

Birders (twitchers) are the worst - and some even admitted to me outright that all they care about it seeing it.
They don't care to disturb birds just to get a sighting.
They trample all over private property - mine - several times.
They disturb birds in their nest - seen that too often
The play calls from their apps - which disturbs some species into abandoning their young in the nest. Even the so-called well informed birders.
Anything to get the numbers up for their sightings.
I don't care if I shoot a pigeon or a Vogelkop Superb bird-of-paradise. While it would be nice to shoot that rare bird - it simply isn't important enough to me. If it's not a known location - do we really want other people to get the same shots we got?
Isn't it difficult enough already to get something different?

Exactly right!

 

[simplynature]

At one time I would share locations (15-20 years ago), but after a couple of instances of seeing those areas being degraded and trashed I no longer share locations AT ALL. That has pissed off a few good friends but it is what it is.

 

[Woody Meristem]

Reading this thread, I am feeling a bit dissapointed in the human nature...

Both by the egotistical "keep it to yourself" attitude that is on display and even more so by the seeming inability of humans not to ruin a good thing, that has lead to said attitude.

It's not egotistical, it's a desire not to add to the disturbance or impact on the resource. In addition to the incident with the Audubon group and the dug up orchid that I related earlier, I vividly recall another situation with another rare orchid to which a friend led a group, I was in the group as was a famous botanist from a museum. We found several of the orchids but only one in bloom, when we all were done photographing the orchid the guy from the museum stepped in and scooped up the blooming orchid with the comment "We need one of these for our herbarium." The residents of any coyote den or rattlesnake basking area whose location becomes known are in mortal danger from the many, many people who just have to kill every individual of those species they become aware of. It's not quite that bad with eagle or peregrine nests but they can also become victims of photographers, birders or the merely curious. As for goshawk nests, there are enough unscrupulous falconers to grab every nestling a nest can produce. So don't begin to think it's ego, for many of us it's a matter of "RESOURCE FIRST !"

 

[sh1209]

It's not egotistical, it's a desire not to add to the disturbance or impact on the resource. In addition to the incident with the Audubon group and the dug up orchid that I related earlier, I vividly recall another situation with another rare orchid to which a friend led a group, I was in the group as was a famous botanist from a museum. We found several of the orchids but only one in bloom, when we all were done photographing the orchid the guy from the museum stepped in and scooped up the blooming orchid with the comment "We need one of these for our herbarium." The residents of any coyote den or rattlesnake basking area whose location becomes known is in mortal danger from the many, many people who just have to kill every individual of those species they become aware of. It's not quite that bad with eagle or peregrine nests but they can also become victims of photographers, birders or the merely curious. As for goshawk nests, there are enough unscrupulous falconers to grab every nesting a nest can produce. So don't begin to think it's ego, for many of us it's a matter of "RESOURCE FIRST !"

Well said!

 

[O]

We have so many beaches on our door step, some are city beaches like Bondi Beach with parking meters and tourist coming to get rescued so they can get hopefully on the TV show Bondi Rescue or have their friends video the event for SM.

The cost of metered parking is as much as parking in Manhattan.

Where we are and go we have loads of pristine locally patronized beaches and ocean pools, free parking wonderful clean amenities, above all we have some locations that have special surfing breaks in certain conditions that are enjoyed each day by locals, once it hit social media where the break was going off, massive crowds of would be could be riders would just jam the place up with parking and crowds in the water that basically made it near impossible to enjoy things safely.

So the locals now put out on social media deliberately nominating a location that is going off but really isn't, the objective is to divert the crowds to elsewhere.

Any communication for locals who are often parts of surfing clubs is by phone sms and well guarded.

With SM when the crowds come they drive and park on the grass dig up paths park on the foot path with their 4WD, leave their litter, its horrible.

We have seen so many other nature places damaged by the public masses following trends on SM.

I am certain in Africa rangers would keep their prime locations quiet.



Only an opinion

 

[Larry S.]

Thanks for posting this question, as I think it brings up some very interesting points and should offer us some pause for thought.
As to the answer to your basic question, I do not share locations on the web, to those who ask via email, IG, Facebook, etc... Furthermore, with the exception of two photographer/environmentalists like myself, I do not share my locations.
Reason:
First, let's acknowledge that in the US there are many known locations to photograph wildlife in captivating locations. These include places like Florida wetlands, East Coast wetlands, National Parks, and state parks. One simply needs to look on the NP, SP, or known city tourism sites, find if their is a loop road, boardwalk, or "birding tips" to know where to go. This data is freely available to the public and one expects to find photographers in these locations... like the Hayden Valley in Yellowstone, Sage Meadows in the Tetons, or Corkscrew Swamp in Florida... to name a few.

Why I don't share...
Twenty-five years ago wildlife photography was relegated to the more hardcore photographer. Sure, people brought their cameras on vacation to National Parks and purchased lenses that were used once or twice a year, but these cameras produced prints or slides from film, were generally good enough for the photo album, but were relatively poor in composition, exposure, and timing. Film was expensive and photography required knowledge about exposure, appropriate shutter speed, and best apertures for a given image. I used to travel with 50 to 100 rolls of Velvia & Ektachrome and hope for 20 good shots. I made money, and nobody went to the places I went. In fact I spent 8 days backpacking in Denali to get a few good bear landscapes hiking through an autumnal tundra-covered hill... Back then I could tell someone where I saw a great grey owl, and nobody would care.
Enter the present... Relatively little knowledge is required to make a decent photo. People have become actors in their own reality shows and want to be famous (whatever that means). Instagram and Facebook feed the dopamine addiction with their little hearts, and people now have instant access to every possible location. As a result, if only 3 percent of the so-called - wildlife photographers disrespect a location, the place becomes spoiled, the wildlife becomes wary, and often suffers from the human intrusions.
Case in point... in 1993 I went to the Sax-Zim Bog 3 or 4 times to photograph hawk and great gray owls. These trips were either day long or multi-day trips. The location was disclosed to me by an owl researcher who wanted photos to share with her class. I was an ecologist/photographer/biology teacher. In the time I was there, I saw only myself and shooting partner as well as one resident who lived at the edge of the bog. Today, if one goes to the bog in winter, you will encounter birding tour busses and at least 50 other vehicles driving back and forth on the same road and visiting the same feeders. The location is spoiled for photographer and for the wildlife... the charm is gone. I can recount endless stories like this.

Moral... if you've got a special spot, keep it to yourself as you will be doing your wildlife subjects a huge favor.

bruce

Excellent in total…. This should be required reading for everyone shooting wildlife.

 

[LouiseDan]

Watching both tourists and photographers mob bears, cubs, owls, eagles and osprey has taught me to keep my mouth shut about where we look for wildlife.

 

[O]

Watching both tourists and photographers mob bears, cubs, owls, eagles and osprey has taught me to keep my mouth shut about where we look for wildlife.

Absolutely the case, same here.

 

[GregT943]

I never disclose info unless it's already well known. However if it's not a known site, then I keep it to myself. I know a lot of unknown and unnamed waterfalls in Vermont that aren't on websites or maps that I took the time to explore and find on my own. I don't share those locations ever.

 

[GregWCIL]

I can give you an example. In the spring I spend lots of time scouting out pileated woodpecker nests because I like filming the chicks as they emerge. Two years ago a lady approached me to ask what I was doing and I proceeded to show her the chicks and mother emerging from the tree. I asked politely if she’d keep it to herself and she said no problem. Two days later I hiked to the area and sure enough she was there with her sister and her sisters small children. As you know time is very limited to film these guys once they start emerging. I continued to set up and took some stills. Came back the next day, sure enough she was there again and I asked directly if she could be quiet so I could film them. That lasted about 30 seconds and lo and behold she starts talking again on her phone lol. This is the situation I try to avoid because it is very time consuming to find these spots. I would certainly take most members on here directly to the area but I have found out the hard way a few times that giving exact locations can leave you searching for new locations. As Winston Churchill said earlier in this posts I’ve had bird watchers purposely try to disturb me when photographing birds. I can’t for the like if me understand why someone would do that but to each their own.

Hey, I’m just across the River in Illinois. Could I come photograph the nesting Pileateds? I won’t tell anyone. (All you others here don’t read this.). Oh, and btw, please have a heated blind set up for me. I prefer my coffee black.

 

[sh1209]

Hey, I’m just across the River in Illinois. Could I come photograph the nesting Pileateds? I won’t tell anyone. (All you others here don’t read this.). Oh, and btw, please have a heated blind set up for me. I prefer my coffee black.

That heated blind sounds nice. I was in Alton a couple days ago trying to photograph the short eared owls at Riverlands but didn’t see any.

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

That heated blind sounds nice. I was in Alton a couple days ago trying to photograph the short eared owls at Riverlands but didn’t see any.

Any heated blinds or any heated owls?

 

[sh1209]

Any heated blinds or any heated owls?

Both would be nice at this point lol

 

[Activert]

My answer to this is a definite no. I have did this a few times in the past with close friends and before you know it, they have told a few of their friends and you end up with a crowd gathered at your favorite spots. One thing I’ve learned in my 50 years on this earth is most human beings cannot keep secrets lol. I found having lived in six states in my adult life that it typically takes about two years at a spot to really get familiar with the migration times and such to really get a grasp on things. I have spent a few hundred hours at spots and a lot of times even without a camera scoping out things to find the best areas. Having said that, I don’t think a lot of people understand how much work is involved in scoping an area out. I have a couple what I consider close friends here in Missouri that I would definitely take to a spot but that’s about where it ends. I’ve had folks in the past get mad at me on social media because I wouldn’t disclose an exact location where I shot a subject, but I don’t think they understand how much works going and into finding those spots. Just curious how others feel about disclosing their favorite local locations.

Thanks for posting this thread and I completely agree with you on this topic. Some people share with me their location,. Those people know how much I care about animals and how much I work hard to protect them. In some known location for certain rare species, some people are curious specially when they see me with my big telephoto lens and if they talk to me then I will explain the species behaviour and the importance to protect it by protecting its habitats. I turn the conversation into a learning process. In Montreal area where I live, every one with a camera or a phone believes that he or she becomes a wildlife photographer if he or she takes a photo of a squirrel. It is now here a fashion to be a bird photographer.
Ten years ago, I used to go to a migratory bird refuge, where song birds,, eagles, heron and ducks arrive in spring to nest. In the beginning, there were very few people mostly photographers like me. Everyone was respectful and we all were equipped with téléobjectif and nobody disturbed the nest. Then it started to become popular with some birders and others with their small camera or phone. They started to walk away from the trail and got too close to the nests, Some were more créatif, they cut branches around nests to be able to take clear shots of the young with their phone. Somebody photographers that I knew did the same. When I asked one of the photographers if it was worth it to put the life of the young in danger for his stupid shot, his answer was yes. After that I decided not to go anymore to that location because I could not see how even some so called photographers did not have any ethic.
Now I photograph most of the time alone, I do my research and I try to go to more remote places that I know there might be some photographers like me who work hard to get their shots but in a respectful way toward nature.

 

[sh1209]

Thanks for posting this thread and I completely agree with you on this topic. Some people share with me their location,. Those people know how much I care about animals and how much I work hard to protect them. In some known location for certain rare species, some people are curious specially when they see me with my big telephoto lens and if they talk to me then I will explain the species behaviour and the importance to protect it by protecting its habitats. I turn the conversation into a learning process. In Montreal area where I live, every one with a camera or a phone believes that he or she becomes a wildlife photographer if he or she takes a photo of a squirrel. It is now here a fashion to be a bird photographer.
Ten years ago, I used to go to a migratory bird refuge, where song birds,, eagles, heron and ducks arrive in spring to nest. In the beginning, there were very few people mostly photographers like me. Everyone was respectful and we all were equipped with téléobjectif and nobody disturbed the nest. Then it started to become popular with some birders and others with their small camera or phone. They started to walk away from the trail and got too close to the nests, Some were more créatif, they cut branches around nests to be able to take clear shots of the young with their phone. Somebody photographers that I knew did the same. When I asked one of the photographers if it was worth it to put the life of the young in danger for his stupid shot, his answer was yes. After that I decided not to go anymore to that location because I could not see how even some so called photographers did not have any ethic.
Now I photograph most of the time alone, I do my research and I try to go to more remote places that I know there might be some photographers like me who work hard to get their shots but in a respectful way toward nature.

Very well said!

 

[Woody Meristem]

I am thankful that hunters pay for their opportunity to hunt, but I know that I contribute many times more money each year to non-profits that buy and manage land. Everyone likes to point to the role of hunters, but there are as many of us who do not hunt, and yet freely give money to protect natural resources.

bruce

I totally agree, many of us who contribute to conservation organizations and don't hunt, contribute multiples of the price of a hunting license. Unfortunately there are all too many wildlife watchers and photographers who contribute nothing toward the conservation and management of habitat while some hunters who purchase licenses also contribute to conservation organizations. For all too long hunters and those who don't hunt have been at odds while habitat continues to disappear under pavement, big box stores and McMansions. If the two groups don't/can't reach a consensus they'll eventually be fighting over the last few patches of woodland while the developer unloads his earth-moving equipment.

Pennsylvania has over 3 1/2 million acres of publicly owned land that many people think is "protected", but every year there are more gas wells, compressor stations, pipelines and access roads, plus timber sale haul roads, deer-resistant fences and log landings, plus visitor centers and restrooms, plus developed trails for the latest motorized gadget to come along, plus hiking trails for people who can't find their way around in the woods, plus cell phone and radio towers. Habitat in every state is subject to this type of death by a thousand cuts.

 

[Activert]

Cameron's Quote: "
Just a question, but have you considered that part of the ability to bring these animals back there and keeping them going is driven by tourism and all?
I get it, but there's other perspectives here too.
It's like how hunters end up paying a lot of taxes and fees that go towards conservation, on top of the work a lot of them do (at least around here)."

......
There have been so many places that have become "wildlife destinations."
I don't begrudge a community wanting to make money form their natural assets, but it's the nature loving community's responsibility to ensure that this type of tourism does no harm.
Regarding hunting and nature tourism... I do not disagree with Cameron's point, but there has to be a balance that allows for sustainable access. Where there is no doubt that hunting contributes to land thus wildlife conservation, so do contributions to the Nature Conservancy, Audubon, NRDC, Sierra Club, and one's state's DNR. I am thankful that hunters pay for their opportunity to hunt, but I know that I contribute many times more money each year to non-profits that buy and manage land. Everyone likes to point to the role of hunters, but there are as many of us who do not hunt, and yet freely give money to protect natural resources.

bruce

Well said!
I am a wildlife conservation photographer . The money I make from my photography goes to organizations that defend nature and wildlife. That is part of why I do photography. For me nature gives me so much and my responsibility is to protect it and leave no trace in the natural habitat. Longtime ago, human were considered one of the many species that are part of this nature. All species have the same needs to survive. Now we consider ourselves above everything and everything else belong to us. Human used to live in harmony with nature, now we see all animals and plants species as product and service.
I just came back from a trip to Tanzania and Kenya. I went to do safari in the low season to avoid the crowd and the tourists. Even, it was the rainy seasons, there were so many tourists. I could not believe how safari guides and drivers disturb the animals to get their clients too close to the lions or the leopards in Kenya. It was much worse than my last visit to Kenya ten years ago. Sadly everywhere, it is the same story, money comes first and tourists don’t care much. They only care about their selfie with wildlife even i f their action endanger an animal.