First Z6II Impressions - AF Speed Test - A Update 11-29-2020

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Hi all,

I got my Z6 II on Saturday (yay!), so Sunday I went out to test the camera. Disclaimer: I'm not a BIF photographer!

So please, please, don't take these pictures as a proof that camera works or doesn't work. I think I only tried to shoot BIF for real twice in the past 10 years, and with DSLRs.

So, that aside, here are my comments:
  • the AF focuses fast and nails focus pretty well (given my skills), as long as you keep it pointed at the right thing;
  • and this, pointing at the right thing, is hard: the dynamic area size is small, the fully auto-area AF is somewhat erratic (for BIF, for landing/take off OK), th WideL is OKish;
  • subject tracking might work well, but since the birds move so fast, I didn't have time to engage it and thus all shots were without it;
  • as Steve said, the 5.5 FPS are too slow, but the Extended+ is too lagy for real BIF that move erraticaly;
I shot many pictures, and from actual in-flight left-to-right, I had few keepers. The problem is that if you frame the bird large, then the lag in extended+ will result in bad framing. One has to frame with enough margin on all sides, but then that means cropping later in post, which with the Z6 is not that great.

BIF coming towards you I had few actual pictures (due to the area I was in), but the camera did track focus well, so a couple of pictures are actually my favourites from that shoot.

For landing/take-off pictures (so birds _almost_ in flight) the AF system is more than good.

And after all those words, here is a flickr album with SOOC pictures, since Lightroom doesn't support it yet: Nikon Z6 II tests. The only processing I did to the pictures was to trim the exif information. Camera Z6 II, lens 70-200 f/2.8 S, either plain or with 1.4/2.0 TC. All pictures at 1/2000s or higher, and (except for some operator mistakes) shoot as wide as the TCs allowed.

At first, during the shoot, I was pretty disappointed, but after getting home and actually looking at the pictures, I think the tracking of the AF is much better than I expected; it's not a case (no longer?) of the AF lagging behind, it's simply a case of pointing the AF system at what one wants to be in focus - and keeping it on the thing.

Sorry for the text wall, especially as I fear some people will take this as proof "camera is not good for BIF". As I said, I'm not a BIF photographer, so take that into consideration.
 
Hi @Steve any initial thoughts on when an update to your eBook: "Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System - Mirrorless Edition" would be available covering the new Z IIs? I guess we will have to wait for the Z 7II to be released and time to test and then do all the writing etc.
 
Hi @Steve any initial thoughts on when an update to your eBook: "Secrets To The Nikon Autofocus System - Mirrorless Edition" would be available covering the new Z IIs? I guess we will have to wait for the Z 7II to be released and time to test and then do all the writing etc.
Luckily, the two cameras are identical from an AF standpoint, so I don't have to wait for the Z7ii. However, I still have to field test the Z6 to check for differences that may change some fo the advice in the book. I was out again today though and my initial impressions stand - the camera works functionally just like the old one, it just performs better. That makes for a very easy update :)

Hoping to have an update out in a 4-6 weeks.
 
Luckily, the two cameras are identical from an AF standpoint, so I don't have to wait for the Z7ii. However, I still have to field test the Z6 to check for differences that may change some fo the advice in the book. I was out again today though and my initial impressions stand - the camera works functionally just like the old one, it just performs better. That makes for a very easy update :)

Hoping to have an update out in a 4-6 weeks.
Thanks Steve, look forward to the updates
 
Shot mine today with multiple AF options. Attached t my 600 f4 w a FTZ adapter. Any background and focus didn't grab. If bird was in the open or really close than i was able to grab focus and stay on ok. Better that the Z6 but not even close to the A92. Will continue to ry as I REALLY want this to work.
 
It seems to me that we are not going to see the likes of a D500 or D850 in Nikon's mirrorless lineup anytime soon in regards to their price points. With the Z6/7 II models were already at similar pricing but without the usable high framerates and button configuration options that we have in the DSLR realm. This is rather disappointing for someone like me who wants to get into the mirrorless game. More and more it is looking like we're going to have to spend A9/A9II type money in order to get what we want :(
 
It seems to me that we are not going to see the likes of a D500 or D850 in Nikon's mirrorless lineup anytime soon in regards to their price points. With the Z6/7 II models were already at similar pricing but without the usable high framerates and button configuration options that we have in the DSLR realm. This is rather disappointing for someone like me who wants to get into the mirrorless game. More and more it is looking like we're going to have to spend A9/A9II type money in order to get what we want :(
FWIW, the A7R4 is better than the Z6ii and about the same price as a Z7ii - and AF is better for sure. Not quite a9ii level, but probably around D850 level or better in my experience (although, that experience is a bit limited right now). Nikon is trying, I just worry that the a74 when it's finally announced will significantly outperform the current z cameras. I do think Nikon will catch up eventually, just no idea when...
 
Nikon had two years to catch up. With the investment in Nikon I will wait for the Z8/9 just keeping what I have for now. My guess that is that the Z8/9 will be introduced earlier than Nikon desires due to competitive pressure and my hope is that th Z8/9 gets Nikon level with the competition for action/wildlife oriented autofocus.
 
There's another question as well, I think - how mature are the AF algorithms for the dual-chip cameras? I.e. how mature is the firmware 1.00 that the Z6 II launched with? If within 6-12 months, we see the same amount of improvement compared to today (which is just… faster than original Z6?) that the Z6/Z7 got between 1.0 and 3.0, then the Z6 II might be good enough, without having to wait for the Z8/9.

It could also be that this is already mature enough and the firmware improvements won't bring much, and really the missing part is a better chip (allowing more code to be run, and faster).

But all we can do is speculate, only Nikon themselves actually know what the limitations are…
 
I wonder if S series glass will fix some of the AF ? All of my experience to date is with F mount lens. I am still not sure which Af option is best for BIF? It seems that the camera would hunt if even if the subject was inside the box on the AF especially with background, I also noticed that some of the AF areas are large and I had a tough time shooting thru holes in branches. I will try it on the 5000 pf once the weather breaks and hopefully get the thing figured out.
 
I wonder if S series glass will fix some of the AF ? All of my experience to date is with F mount lens. I am still not sure which Af option is best for BIF? It seems that the camera would hunt if even if the subject was inside the box on the AF especially with background, I also noticed that some of the AF areas are large and I had a tough time shooting thru holes in branches. I will try it on the 5000 pf once the weather breaks and hopefully get the thing figured out.

For the record, shooting with the 70-200 *S* version, I didn't find hunting to be a big problem; getting the AF box or the focus point on the birds was the main issue, and keeping it there (see my post a bit earlier).

I saw some hunting in full auto or WideL mode (which is basically auto for a subset of the frame), but only in a case where honestly I can't fault the camera. For example, in this flickr album:
  • picture 1: well focused, at this size of birds and level of contracts birds to background, it was doing just fine.
  • picture 2: the birds are quite small here, and the contrast background/birds is too small; the camera focused on the pier behind them, instead.
  • picture 3: big enough subject, constrast is excellent so camera had no issues.
As always, disclaimer that I'm just an amateur, etc. etc.
 
It seems to me that we are not going to see the likes of a D500 or D850 in Nikon's mirrorless lineup anytime soon in regards to their price points. With the Z6/7 II models were already at similar pricing but without the usable high framerates and button configuration options that we have in the DSLR realm. This is rather disappointing for someone like me who wants to get into the mirrorless game. More and more it is looking like we're going to have to spend A9/A9II type money in order to get what we want :(
My prediction, and I hope I’m wrong, is that Nikon will put out something that rivals or even outperforms the a9II (maybe the rumored Z9) but it’s going to be at a Nikon flagship price... which will make the a9II look like a steal at $4500.
 
FWIW, the A7R4 is better than the Z6ii and about the same price as a Z7ii - and AF is better for sure. Not quite a9ii level, but probably around D850 level or better in my experience (although, that experience is a bit limited right now). Nikon is trying, I just worry that the a74 when it's finally announced will significantly outperform the current z cameras. I do think Nikon will catch up eventually, just no idea when...

Fair point Steve. I don't have much options where I live to try out gear I don't own and even if I did I don't think I could swallow ditching the 300pf and 500pf lenses so I guess I'm just stuck waiting on Nikon to catch up. I expect that would be in a minimum two years if the Z to ZII lifecycle is any indication. Unless of course they miraculously come out with a 'Z500' or close to to it at the prize at a Z6 II. I'd even be willing to pay a bit more than current Z6 II pricing for such a beast but I won't be holding my breath.
 
My prediction, and I hope I’m wrong, is that Nikon will put out something that rivals or even outperforms the a9II (maybe the rumored Z9) but it’s going to be at a Nikon flagship price... which will make the a9II look like a steal at $4500.

That is sort of my point, we had (still have) the D500 and the D850 for DSLR which are still a fair bit cheaper than the second gen Z6 and Z7 and while the Z cameras are very good cameras, they just aren't suited to action the same way the Nikon DSLRs are. It feels thus far that Nikon is going to ask us to pay out the nose for such a camera (Z9?) and then we'll have to wait for the technology to trickle down to lower tiers. I can't see Nikon releasing a fast action usable high fps mirrorless body at a prosumer price point until well after a flagship gets released. I'm like the father who tells his child and the child being Nikon, child... I'm not mad or angry at you, I'm just disappointed 😞. 😁
 
Steve ..I would like you to try it with multiple teleconverters ..While the DSLRs have problems with hunting etc Rockwell ( spit , vomit) found excellent focus even with a 1.4 and 2 attached.
 
I spent last weekend shooting the Z6II + 200-400VR1 side-by-side with the D500 + 500PF. This is my preferred wildlife set.. a case where the bodies can be reversed when I need less in the way of "focal length." I still have one Z6, but have been shooting them since their introduction (or so).
My subject on Saturday was the last batch of Sandhill cranes migrating through the upper midwest, and deer on Sunday. I would love to show some pictures, but I can't seem to export the work out of NX-D, and in the absence of a DNG converter, my images are just viewable on my computer.
Now, I don't know if Capture NX-D is doing some baked in magic on the files, but it appears that my in focus rate with the Z6II is much higher for the cranes in flight than I had expected. The birds were pretty far away, so I ended up using my D500 more than the Z6II at this shoot. With that said, when the Z6II was used, it was refreshingly fast to lock on to the subject, and stayed with it as I panned with my gimbal. However, the AF would occasionally catch the background and then I needed to reset... know, however, the same happened with the D500. Recall, the birds were far from me (50-150 meters), and the background was a mix of wetland, birch, and spruce. Cranes lack contrast at sunset, and I think any camera would be fooled. When shooting cranes in the sky, the camera maintained focus regardless if the birds flew parallel to me or towards me.
As for the deer... mostly bucks, the Z6II and 200-400 performed better than the Z6 did. Despite the distracting sticks and forested background, the AF locked on fast and stayed with the eye if I kept the Single point or dynamic points on the animal. I did not use automatic 3D focus tracking, as there was a lot of clutter in the woods.

Finally, 5.5 fps is more than enough for distant birds and mammals... if I need a faster frame rate, I would just use the D500. This last generation of DSLRs continues to compete head to head w/ the best of the mirrorless cameras in AF, build, and usability... Like Lustin, I am hoping that the Z6II will improve as Nikon invests time refining the firmware to optimize the second processor.

Unless you are a bird in flight specialist, I think the Z6II w/ the plethora of available F-mount glass is a compelling camera... will post pics if I can figure out how to export from NX-D

bruce
 
That is sort of my point, we had (still have) the D500 and the D850 for DSLR which are still a fair bit cheaper than the second gen Z6 and Z7 and while the Z cameras are very good cameras, they just aren't suited to action the same way the Nikon DSLRs are. It feels thus far that Nikon is going to ask us to pay out the nose for such a camera (Z9?) and then we'll have to wait for the technology to trickle down to lower tiers. I can't see Nikon releasing a fast action usable high fps mirrorless body at a prosumer price point until well after a flagship gets released. I'm like the father who tells his child and the child being Nikon, child... I'm not mad or angry at you, I'm just disappointed 😞. 😁
Getting into mirrorless will meen also migrating to mirrorless lenses. If Nikon announces a expensive ,ala D6 priced mirrorless camera, an alternative is a SONY body with a lens for wildlife. The then current A7Rx will be a top performer, even a used A7R4 in a year will be a solid performer. Nikon seems to continue to operate as a monopoly, slow rolling technology to milk every dime out of their installed base. If this is the case I feel this is a failure on their part to recognize the camera industry has changed. My sense is that SONY's fast paced introduction of technology has changed the camera industry. Canon recognized this shift and adapted. So far Nikon seems to be living in the past.
 
Thanks Bruce. That's very helpful. I shoot a lot of wildlife (not as much as you) both on trips (pre-Covid, anyway) and in Minnesota (in the Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge near the Twin Cities and in the Ely area). I like to shoot waterbirds, wading birds, eagles, and osprey from my kayak and warblers (more often on land). Also, although less frequently, mammals -- deer, beavers, otters, muskrats, mink, and the occasional black bear or red fox. This summer, I shot only with my Z7 (with my 500 mm PF, with or without a 1.4x TCIII) and my Z6 (with the 70-300 mm AF-P FX zoom or my 300 mm PF). Also photographed birds in flight, including slower ones like bald eagles and herons, and faster ones like gulls and osprey.

I like the Z7 and Z6 a lot (and agree with Steve's top ten reasons to shoot mirrorless), although I have kept my D500 and D850 for birds in flight and fast action.

Do you think the Z6II is enough improved on autofocus to be worth upgrading a Z6? (Dual card slots and the new grip are not that important to me -- I would have preferred Nikon to add the ability to assign focus areas with a single button press and a more real time view in the EVF for shooting high extended.) I have found that there are times when I wished the Z7 or Z6 would acquire focus faster.

I am also hoping that the Z7II will show a similar improvement on autofocus, although it will be a while more before we know whether that is the case. I use the Z7 more than my Z6, to get more pixels on the duck, as Steve says, even as I try to get close in my kayak and often use a 1.4x TCIII with my 500 mm PF.
 
Thanks Bruce. That's very helpful. I shoot a lot of wildlife (not as much as you) both on trips (pre-Covid, anyway) and in Minnesota (in the Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge near the Twin Cities and in the Ely area). I like to shoot waterbirds, wading birds, eagles, and osprey from my kayak and warblers (more often on land). Also, although less frequently, mammals -- deer, beavers, otters, muskrats, mink, and the occasional black bear or red fox. This summer, I shot only with my Z7 (with my 500 mm PF, with or without a 1.4x TCIII) and my Z6 (with the 70-300 mm AF-P FX zoom or my 300 mm PF). Also photographed birds in flight, including slower ones like bald eagles and herons, and faster ones like gulls and osprey.

I like the Z7 and Z6 a lot (and agree with Steve's top ten reasons to shoot mirrorless), although I have kept my D500 and D850 for birds in flight and fast action.

Do you think the Z6II is enough improved on autofocus to be worth upgrading a Z6? (Dual card slots and the new grip are not that important to me -- I would have preferred Nikon to add the ability to assign focus areas with a single button press and a more real time view in the EVF for shooting high extended.) I have found that there are times when I wished the Z7 or Z6 would acquire focus faster.

I am also hoping that the Z7II will show a similar improvement on autofocus, although it will be a while more before we know whether that is the case. I use the Z7 more than my Z6, to get more pixels on the duck, as Steve says, even as I try to get close in my kayak and often use a 1.4x TCIII with my 500 mm PF.

Hello Bill,
We are neighbors... I live in Stillwater, MN and am one of the many wildlife and landscape shooters in the state. If you subscribe to Nature Photographer Magazine, you have likely seen my work as I am a regular contributor with natural history style essays. We probably chase similar subjects. During the winters I photographs swans, owls, and mammals... tough working winter mammals from a blind, but rewarding if you manage to find their crepuscular patterns. During Autumn and Spring its cranes, deer, beavers, and anything else I am lucky enough to find. I get out of dodge in the summer, as I am a teacher... this is when I tend to go to Costa Rica (their green/wet season, Africa, British Columbia, or anywhere that seems new and unique).
Regarding the Z6II... two things have left me super excited: 1. The start up time is about 2.5x faster than the Z6. This was really a surprise, and it makes using the camera a more enjoyable experience. 2. Initial AF acquisition is getting close to D500 speed. If you use single point or dynamic AF it seems far quicker to find and lock on the subject. Last weekend, when tracking deer, I found the AF point locked right on the eye as fast as the D500. My image reviews suggest that they are as sharp as one would want.

Regarding AFC performance... it appears to be improved, but I will not make the claim until I shoot the camera a bit more.
Finally, battery life may be improved with native Z lenses and E lenses, but the camera still seems to suffer mediocre battery performance with G telephoto lenses. If I use VR with my 200-400 and do not shut it off, I can only get about 350 to 400 pics from a charge. As a result, I am using the battery holder designed for the Z6/Z7. This will be replaced by the newer grip when NPS ships one out to me. I suspect that battery life is substantially better with the 70-200mm f/2.8S, and this may be the reason I will eventually get one... At $2700 + $500 for converters, I want to be sure that it is a longterm solution. If I buy the 70-200 w/ converters, I will not be able to afford the upcoming 100-400, as I suspect that this lens will be around $3000...
regards,
bruce
 
Thanks Bruce. That’s encouraging on the AF front. Look forward to hearing more as you keep shooting. Real world reports are so valuable.

And reduced start-up delay would be great. I have set my display off setting to 30 minutes or sometimes turned it off completely (so the display just stays on) and then left the camera on when shooting warblers. Uses batteries faster, but avoiding the start up delay is very useful when shooting warblers that do not sit still for long.

I am also looking forward to the 100-400 in Z mount. Hope and expect it will be very good. I think the 200-400s and the 180-400 are heavier than I want. I have the 70-200 f2.8E FL lens, so thinking I might hold off on the 70-200 Z version while I still have and use DSLRs, although if the Z version with the 2x TC is good enough, I might rethink that.
 
I'm another watching Nikon's new strategy and releases with much interest. On the DSLR side, the cameras are about the best available for all genres. We hope for a D550 and D880 (rumoured) the take the D780 hybrid concept much further ie D6 AF and full house of controls. Obviously, Nikon has to prioritize delivering its Z system, but it surely must be realistic that many of its installed Hobbyists are firmly embedded in the F System, and a proportion of these repeat clients with upgrade of new F cameras and lenses. This a reality they cannot ignore, and a significant proportion are DX shooters (ie ~320 000+ D500's sold).

While new DX F-Nikkors are unlikely, it makes sound business sense to offer tempting upgrades in a hybrid DX DSLR - or 2, especially as Nikon can extend the sales of existing technology eg Z50 sensor, EXPEED6 + D6 AF system etc. This implies the undeniable reality: the F system is NOT going to Disappear any time soon.

There are very few gaps in lenses. There are still gaps for a newer 80-400, and Nikon has been overtaken by lighter 400 and 600 telephoto primes by CaSony. But going after the latter lenses has huge costs. So it's impracticable. On the other hand, there are the 300 f4 and 500 f5.6 PF lenses, and this is the arena some of us hope for a 400 f4 PF and 600 f5.6 PF. These might be Z-mount, but again unwise given the installed F-Mount market (!) The other gaps are longer Micro-Nikkors ie ~70-180 and 200 (or maybe 150). These are 20 years late and counting! :sleep::sleep::sleep:
 
The total of 18 Z Nikkors incl 2 teleconverters, and 6 cameras in just over 2 years ain't bad. This success is underscored by harsh realities that Nikon is "juggling" major losses as the ILC market crashes, and so downscaling in fact writing off a factory or more! These challenges are interwoven with impacts of 11 months of a pandemic and counting. It should be 26 Z optics 3 + years Z Day (August 2018). There should also be firmer sight of a Pro Z8 (aka Z1) within 1 year too. Nikon has committed to delivering this Z system.

While I'm disappointed Nikon persists in its more stone-headed traditions. To single out 3 examples (1) ranking models into a sacred scale of hamstrung feature sets (eg Z6/Z7 custom menus :rolleyes:) (2) undoing features that work very very well (the best of the D850 menus that are simple to adapt across to Z6 and Z7 :rolleyes: ); (3) persisting with antediluvian controls without option for the Custom fast-switching (AF mode selection via Camera left button) :unsure: [hint to Tokyo - simply add Option to assign Red-Record+scroll ]

And to add a 4th case - want to sell more MILC bodies bundle the FTZ almost free with each Zed camera; and prioritize a FTZd (AI indexing + screwdriver AF) at a subsidized RRP to tempt hobbyists into buying a Z camera, which they then rave about as it brings their older AI/AIS and AFDs (including all s'driver AFs). A proportion will be tempted to buy a Z-Nikkor or more..... Reality Rule: No Z camera sold = losses of even more unsold Z-Nikkors

Nevertheless, I'm quietly confident by the end of Z year 3 Nikon will have taken key criticisms more seriously, and cloned more of the D6 menu/control DNA besides AF across to its top end Hobbyist/Pro cameras. It will be a great day if we should hear that Nikon has also consolidated their unique niche in the Phase-Fresnel telephotos. As for the underperforming fps & Z AF for action, Nikon must be very very aware of the gaps to fix - and as soon as possible.

To summarize, Looking across systems, one would be silly IMHO to switch away from Nikon at this stage as the company switches strategy. Until the Z system gets to cracking BIF etc, use a D500 or D5 and take your pick of telephoto(s). Thanks to the FTZ, the existing Z system is the best to buy -
 
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