First Z6II Impressions - AF Speed Test - A Update 11-29-2020

[BLev65]

I carried D 500 and 500 PF on a jungle trek today.We found a pair of Short toed snake eagles at some distance and took few shots before they flew away.
During post processing I realised that I should have carried my D 850 for the higher resolution and better cropping.
Hence I plan to wait for Z 7ii rather than Z 6ii if it's AF is as good as Z 6ii for the higher resolution and better cropping ability
Else I will wait for Z9

I am not sure why "better" cropping. The D500 has a better image quality than the D850 when you crop the D850 to the D500's resolution. Now, if a 36mp crop would have been better than a 20mp crop, then the D850 would have been a better way to go.

 

[Rassie]

@Rassie I am exactly in the same situation: D7500 coupled with 200-500mm or 300 PF.
I held back and did not go for the Z6 (AF issue) or Z50 (lack of IBIS)..
I was almost certain of buying a 2nd D7500 on Black Friday next week.
Now after reading your review.. I might hold back and consider buying the Z6 ii instead.
Look forward to more feedback on mark ii..

The only thing one would have to address somehow is the loss of reach in this case going from DX to FX. The lower res Z6 does not allow for much cropping. I'm starting to think of getting a teleconverter.

 

[BillW]

The only thing one would have to address somehow is the loss of reach in this case going from DX to FX. The lower res Z6 does not allow for much cropping. I'm starting to think of getting a teleconverter.

Maybe a Z7II to allow cropping to DX with good pixel density?

 

[Rassie]

Besides longer lenses or using a teleconverter, that is the only other option.

 

[Rassie]

I think the verdict, for me at least, is that the Z6ii is likely more capable for BIF images than my D7500.
I was in an area today where a few Red-Tail Hawks hang out. Some of them were on the hunt. I pulled the car off the road, opened my driver's side window and looked around before I was going to get out to look for hawks. The camera was sitting on the passenger seat next to me. As I looked out the window I spotted a hawk perched in a tree just off the road.

I've seen this over and over with hawks. If you pull up a car near them they take off the minute the car stops. This one was no exception. I knew I had to stay seated if I was to have any chance of getting an image. Fortunately the camera settings were more or less already dialed in for BIF. I reached over and got my hands on the camera at the same moment the hawk took off. All I could do was point the camera at it through the open window and fire away in burst mode. I only managed about four shots, most of them kind of acceptable. I think I could have had better focus with a tripod setup and higher shutter speed, but still, the camera impressed. It grabbed focus straight from the get go and held it. The image below is one of those.

I shot many images of these hawks, and the autofocus impressed me, both AF-C Wide Small and Wide Large. I also noticed that the red focus rectangle in the EVF disappears when the camera loses focus, and reappears when focus locks again. That's neat. I don't remember seeing that with the original Z6.

Z6ii with Nikkor 200-500mm. 1/2000 sec, F/6.3, ISO 900. This is a cropped JPEG out of the camera. I'm not bothering editing NEF files at the moment. Waiting for Adobe to update their Camera Raw software for Z6ii.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[euanmax]

Quick question @Steve - would you say your advice on page 333 of your Mirrorless AF book has changed in light of the extra processor in the 2nd gen cameras? I'm new to the system having bought a Z6II to supplement my D500 and have been shooting with the live view exposure settings applied rather than turning them off as suggested so far. I still reach for the D500 most of the time for BIF though so far!

 

[Steve]

Quick question @Steve - would you say your advice on page 333 of your Mirrorless AF book has changed in light of the extra processor in the 2nd gen cameras? I'm new to the system having bought a Z6II to supplement my D500 and have been shooting with the live view exposure settings applied rather than turning them off as suggested so far. I still reach for the D500 most of the time for BIF though so far!

The first part about Apply Settings To Live View is one of the few areas where I do see a difference with the MKii cameras. Although I suspect it still helps to turn it off, it no longer seems necessary. The rest of the advice in that chapter still applies. It may not have as much of an impact in some cases with the MKii cameras, but it can all still help.

 

[uday592]

Steve, You ROCK. Thanks so much for all the help. You provide.

 

[Steve]

I've added this update to the first post, but I thought I'd add it in-line here as well.

Update 11-29-2020

OK, I did an AF speed test with the Z6, Z6ii and the D850. I used my 600 F/4, 200-500, 500PF, and the 24-70 S series lens.

You're not gonna like this if you're a Z fan...

There's no significant improvement in AF speed with adapted lenses that I can detect with my tests. The tests were from minimum focus distance to infinity. Here are the results:

600mm

Z6ii = 1.5 seconds
Z6 = 1.4 seconds
D850 = 0.5 seconds

I honestly have no idea why the Z cameras were so slow with that lens. I ran the test multiple times and the results were the same each time.

200-500mm

Z6ii = 0.9 seconds
Z6 = 1 second
D850 = 0.8 seconds

In this case, I think the cameras can all drive the lens pretty much as fast as it can go.

500PF

Z6ii = 0.7 seconds
Z6 = 1 second
D850 = 0.4 seconds

Here, we see the Z6ii does hold a slight advantage, but no where near as fast as the D850.

24-70 Z

Z6 = 0.7 seconds
Z6ii = 0.7 seconds

So, neck and neck there.

Overall, AF speed is roughly the same, at least from minimum focus distance to infinity between the Z6 and Z6ii. The D850 is still faster in every test.

However, I have noticed in the field that the closer the system is to proper focus, the faster it'll drive the AF ring. So, if you start at minimum focus, it's not so great. However, if your subject is at 50 feet and you start at 30 feet, it latches on at speeds that seem comparable to DSLRs. The Z6ii also feels more confident with AF and is not subject to as much hunting and seems more accurate than the first model.

In short, while these results are a little disappointing (at least to me), keep in mind that most of the time we aren't racking the focus back and forth from minimum distance to infinity - and that sort of hunting happens far less with the Z6ii than it did with the Z6. Overall, I still like the AF much better in the new camera.

 

[BLev65]

Hi Steve...
Thanks for doing your test. The results are disappointing, but I am not sure that it is a surprise. I have found that the Z6II improvements are linked more to the speed of initial focus acquisition and reduced viewfinder wake-up time. I have also found that the AF is "stickier" in continuous AF when comparing the the Z6 to the Z6II. While not a monumental upgrade, the version 2 cameras seem to be more useable when photographing things like deer in a forest with a busy background.
Your point about total AF speed confirms what I have observed,... if you want the fastest AF Nikon has to offer, stick with the D850/D500 & D5/D6.

regards,
bruce

 

[Steve]

Hi Steve...
Thanks for doing your test. The results are disappointing, but I am not sure that it is a surprise. I have found that the Z6II improvements are liked more to the speed of initial focus acquisition and reduced viewfinder wake-up time. I have also found that the AF is "stickier" in continuous AF when comparing the the Z6 to the Z6II. While not a monumental upgrade, the version 2 cameras seem to be more useable when photographing things like deer in a forest with a busy background.
Your point about total AF speed confirms what I have observed,... if you want the fastest AF Nikon has to offer, stick with the D850/D500 & D5/D6.

regards,
bruce

Agree 100% - AF seems to stick better and it also seems to latch on better. The first versions of the cameras would often hunt, the new one just grabs right on and seems to have a lot of "confidence" while doing it. My wife shot the Z6 extensively last year (far more than I did) and the AF on the Z6ii really blew her away.

 

[ruley74]

It's still disappointing regards adapted lenses, makes the jump to Nikon mirrorless a little bit more hesitant. This is one area Canon did well off the bat, the EF to RF adapted lenses worked as equal on each camera. Given my recent 600/4 commitment they'll be no jumping to Nikon mirrorless for some time if the adapted speed is not improved.... The rumored D880 is looking like the next move or a D5/6 addition....

 

[Steve]

It's still disappointing regards adapted lenses, makes the jump to Nikon mirrorless a little bit more hesitant. This is one area Canon did well off the bat, the EF to RF adapted lenses worked as equal on each camera. Given my recent 600/4 commitment they'll be no jumping to Nikon mirrorless for some time if the adapted speed is not improved.... The rumored D880 is looking like the next move or a D5/6 addition....

I hear ya. One of the reasons I shoot more and more Sony is because it works the way I want it to - the a9ii is like a mirrorless D6 to me. Although, I do want to stress that unless the lens is hunting, the AF speed difference in the field hasn't been a huge problem and the other improvements have helped too. I think it's the adapter that's the real issue here - I just don't think it translates fast enough from eh camera to the lenses. I have a feeling we'll see good speeds with the native long glass.

 

[ruley74]

I hear ya. One of the reasons I shoot more and more Sony is because it works the way I want it to - the a9ii is like a mirrorless D6 to me. Although, I do want to stress that unless the lens is hunting, the AF speed difference in the field hasn't been a huge problem and the other improvements have helped too. I think it's the adapter that's the real issue here - I just don't think it translates fast enough from eh camera to the lenses. I have a feeling we'll see good speeds with the native long glass.

Yeah agreed regards native Z glass. I have a feeling the pricing will be closer to the Sony primes when they release them though, which was another 5k on what i ended up getting the 600E for.

 

[Steelhant]

I've added this update to the first post, but I thought I'd add it in-line here as well.

Update 11-29-2020

OK, I did an AF speed test with the Z6, Z6ii and the D850. I used my 600 F/4, 200-500, 500PF, and the 24-70 S series lens.

You're not gonna like this if you're a Z fan...

There's no significant improvement in AF speed with adapted lenses that I can detect with my tests. The tests were from minimum focus distance to infinity. Here are the results:

600mm

Z6ii = 1.5 seconds
Z6 = 1.4 seconds
D850 = 0.5 seconds

I honestly have no idea why the Z cameras were so slow with that lens. I ran the test multiple times and the results were the same each time.

200-500mm

Z6ii = 0.9 seconds
Z6 = 1 second
D850 = 0.8 seconds

In this case, I think the cameras can all drive the lens pretty much as fast as it can go.

500PF

Z6ii = 0.7 seconds
Z6 = 1 second
D850 = 0.4 seconds

Here, we see the Z6ii does hold a slight advantage, but no where near as fast as the D850.

24-70 Z

Z6 = 0.7 seconds
Z6ii = 0.7 seconds

So, neck and neck there.

Overall, AF speed is roughly the same, at least from minimum focus distance to infinity between the Z6 and Z6ii. The D850 is still faster in every test.

However, I have noticed in the field that the closer the system is to proper focus, the faster it'll drive the AF ring. So, if you start at minimum focus, it's not so great. However, if your subject is at 50 feet and you start at 30 feet, it latches on at speeds that seem comparable to DSLRs. The Z6ii also feels more confident with AF and is not subject to as much hunting and seems more accurate than the first model.

In short, while these results are a little disappointing (at least to me), keep in mind that most of the time we aren't racking the focus back and forth from minimum distance to infinity - and that sort of hunting happens far less with the Z6ii than it did with the Z6. Overall, I still like the AF much better in the new camera.

Thank You for the results.. I was hoping that the Z7 ll would be a great fit with the 600 mm prime... at 1.5 sec the flying bird will be home !.... I upgraded from the 5 to the D6 and notice the af improvement , I hoped the Z7 would get close to my non fixable D850..." Nikon can't repair it...I dropped it frame bent " Looks like I will have to wait to see if Nikon replaces the D850..

Thanks Again,
Chuck

 

[Steve]

Just for fun (and to offer a little hope), I also decided to compare my Nikon 600 F/4E (with D6) to my Sony 600 F/4GM (with a9ii) with the same test. It was a tie - exactly the same speed - 0.5 seconds. So, it's possible with mirrorless to have the same kinds of speeds we get in the best DSLRs using native lenses. (it's funny too - the way Sony brags about the AF speed on that lens, I expected it to edge out the Nikon my at least a tenth of a second, but nope.)

 

[Steelhant]

I thought about the Sony A9ll setup before I bought my D6..then the cost of the lens again...and I'm very happy with my 600E, I always did very well will the D5...so even getting bad reviews D6 has to be better...and it is...I shoot Harriers and Owls It grabs them much better flying through the grasses. Just have to find a high res body for sunny days, maybe another D850.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Celticursa]

That’s pretty telling Steve...my 600 E with D850 is my “get along” until Nikon gets their Z act together.

 

[abc123brian]

Hi Steve...
Thanks for doing your test. The results are disappointing, but I am not sure that it is a surprise. I have found that the Z6II improvements are liked more to the speed of initial focus acquisition and reduced viewfinder wake-up time. I have also found that the AF is "stickier" in continuous AF when comparing the the Z6 to the Z6II. While not a monumental upgrade, the version 2 cameras seem to be more useable when photographing things like deer in a forest with a busy background.
Your point about total AF speed confirms what I have observed,... if you want the fastest AF Nikon has to offer, stick with the D850/D500 & D5/D6.

regards,
bruce

Bruce, in your experience so far with the Z6ii do you find the difference in stickiness worth upgrading from the first Z with the latest firmware? I find the original fairly good now. I was actually shooting some deer in the forest earlier this month and it was surprisingly better but did hunt some resulting in a few slight misses. I’m guessing there will be improvements with firmware for the II versions so it probably is worth the upgrade, but is there enough as it is now?

 

[BLev65]

Bruce, in your experience so far with the Z6ii do you find the difference in stickiness worth upgrading from the first Z with the latest firmware? I find the original fairly good now. I was actually shooting some deer in the forest earlier this month and it was surprisingly better but did hunt some resulting in a few slight misses. I’m guessing there will be improvements with firmware for the II versions so it probably is worth the upgrade, but is there enough as it is now?

My wife and I both shoot. Between us we have two D500 bodies and 3 Z6's. I decided to sell one Z6 to get the Z6II... no regrets, as it is a more refined camera. However, if the Z6 you have is currently meeting your needs, you might want to wait. I have seen significant improvements in AF, but I am not a small bird photographer. The Z6II is an incremental upgrade, not a revolutionary one... something like the D4 to D4s, not D810 to D850.
I hope I helped,
bruce

 

[abc123brian]

My wife and I both shoot. Between us we have two D500 bodies and 3 Z6's. I decided to sell one Z6 to get the Z6II... no regrets, as it is a more refined camera. However, if the Z6 you have is currently meeting your needs, you might want to wait. I have seen significant improvements in AF, but I am not a small bird photographer. The Z6II is an incremental upgrade, not a revolutionary one... something like the D4 to D4s, not D810 to D850.
I hope I helped,
bruce

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I have a D500 I use when needed but prefer shooting with the Zs. I’d like the AF to be a little better so hoping the II will be enough to let me leave the D500 home most of the time. I don’t really shoot small birds either, but do once in a while. A lot of birds in florida.

 

[Steve]

I thought about the Sony A9ll setup before I bought my D6..then the cost of the lens again...and I'm very happy with my 600E, I always did very well will the D5...so even getting bad reviews D6 has to be better...and it is...I shoot Harriers and Owls It grabs them much better flying through the grasses. Just have to find a high res body for sunny days, maybe another D850.

Thanks,
Chuck

The D6 is no slouch, that's for sure. I'm very impressed with mine. The single digit bodies tend to be more than the sum of their spec sheets - and I think a lot of the reviews missed that

 

[anthonyrobinson]

This thread has been a great read, thanks to all.

 

[jeffnles1]

This thread has been a great read, thanks to all.

I agree.

 

[BillW]

Interesting that Bruce and Brian both mention not being small bird photographers in thinking about the Z6II. I like to photograph warblers In their spring migration and their summer residence in northern Minnesota. After experimenting with various combinations, my preferred kit for warblers has become the Z7 + 500 mm PF + 1.4x TCIII. Given the small size of the warblers, I need all the focal length I can get. And in many cases I still crop. Once I use the TC, I find autofocus on the Z7 works better for me than the autofocus on the D500/D850. Most of the shots involve perched birds, although they move around quickly.

I have decided to upgrade my Z7 and Z6 to the new II models. From what Bruce and Steve say, I expect better autofocus in the field. I don’t that often have to go from minimum focus to infinity (although if I do, the 500 mm PF seems to be not a bad choice). Of course, I could occasionally be photographing a butterfly at close distances and then see something farther off. I have liked the Z7 and Z6 a lot, although I have kept and plan to keep my D500 and D850. The new II versions sound like an improvement in autofocus that could be material for me. I also shoot water birds and other larger birds, mammals, insects, flowers and other parts of nature. I also like landscape photography, where the new Z mount S lenses are quite nice.

Steve, do you have a 70-200 f2.8 E FL that you could shoot on a D850 and compare in the close focus to infinity test against a 70-200 f2.8 S on the Z6II? Or a 24-70 f2.8 VR on a D850 to compare to a 24-70 2.8 S on the Z6II? I know you are busy, but might be interesting.