First Z6II Impressions - AF Speed Test - A Update 11-29-2020

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

Member's gallery
fcotterill said:
And finally, note how many Nikon subsystems already qualify for Hogan's Perfect MILC. Actually, the Zed IBIS and EVF are also excellent. What's missing in reality from the existing Z6 II and Z7 II ? Above all, Nikon knows they have to catch up ASAP on the AF:

How To Design a Perfect Mirrorless Camera | Sans Mirror | Thom Hogan

How to design a perfect mirrorless camera
www.sansmirror.com www.sansmirror.com
Click to expand...
I think it is too early to judge the AF on the Z6II/Z7II... the cameras are just released and finally in the hands of users / not reviewers. Furthermore, we're on firmware 1.00... who knows how future firmware might leverage the dual processor... time will tell.
Now one could make the argument that the EVF/Sensor/AF hardware needs a refresh in a future pro body, but at the current 5.5fps, I think the Z6II will be as good as the competition. To achieve A7Riv/A9 capabilities, Nikon will need Sony's latest sensor or find some other company to innovate the black-out free sensor experience @ 10-20fps
 
Member's gallery
My Z6ii and your mirrorless book arrived on the same day. It's my first mirrorless and as you might imagine lots of catching up to do. I must say the low noise at high ISO is a great surprise. It won't be my primary wildlife camera, that's the D850, but I thought I should start to get familiar with the genre before it's too late. Thank you for all the information!
 
Member's gallery
srgBunji said:
Mr @Steve are will be any difference with added grip (2 batteries) to Z6II & Z7II in AF performance or FPS ? Or that for Z mirrorless camera's is not case. Thnx
Click to expand...
Not from anything I've read. The batteries are the same, so it seems very unlikely. I don't believe the camera is using both at once, just one after another. I also think that if there were an increase, Nikon would be shouting at the top of the lungs about it :D
 
Member's gallery
srgBunji said:
Mr @Steve are will be any difference with added grip (2 batteries) to Z6II & Z7II in AF performance or FPS ? Or that for Z mirrorless camera's is not case. Thnx
Click to expand...

Rember that the D850 with the battery grip and the EN-EL18 battery only got up to like 9 FPS? The Z6 already does much faster than that, with normal battery, so it seems the limiting factor is CPU speed, not power.
 
Member's gallery
iustin said:
Rember that the D850 with the battery grip and the EN-EL18 battery only got up to like 9 FPS? The Z6 already does much faster than that, with normal battery, so it seems the limiting factor is CPU speed, not power.
Click to expand...
But there is double CPU on new Z's II. Maybe they can do something in firmware update? I don't have nothing yet. Aiming on Z7 II and 14-24 70-200 and future 200-600 and 1 day Z9 😊
 
Member's gallery
iustin said:
Rember that the D850 with the battery grip and the EN-EL18 battery only got up to like 9 FPS? The Z6 already does much faster than that, with normal battery, so it seems the limiting factor is CPU speed, not power.
Click to expand...
Technically yes, this is true. However the extended high shooting mode that gets you to the higher FPS is pretty much unusable for fast moving subjects due to the slideshow effect. This pretty much makes the max usable fps of the Z6 II 5.5 fps. We really don't need higher FPS, we need what is being displayed on the EVF to be displayed faster than it is currently capable of.

Keep in mind, Nikon's big dog DSLRs AF as fast as the do in part due to dedicated AF modules/processors. I had big hopes that this was to be in part why the second cpu was added to the second gen Z series but this doesn't seem to be the case thus far. I made the gamble of selling my D500 to fund a Z6/7 II after hearing of the dual CPUs but that gamble backfired it seems. Not a massive problem though as I'll be able to pick up a used D500 for what I sold mine for and I still have my D850 which is 9/10 of what my D500 was in regards to it's AF.
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
I'll be putting the Z6II to use tomorrow. Not sure if it will be deer, bison or bifs. But I'll try to get an initial impression. Did the set up and programming tonight. Initial impression is start up is quicker, focus locks faster and the eye and animal af is quicker as well. I'll compare as time and subjects allow to the Z6, D500, and D850. Keep in mind I picked up the Z series for mammals. If it will do large bif S I'll be happy
Sorry I don't usually work on the tweety birds..
..
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
Steve said:
I received my Z6ii today and took it out for a spin at a local beach area. These are just some VERY preliminary thoughts. I normally wouldn't share this stuff, but we're all friends here :)

Sadly, all I could find were seagulls (and they would't let me approach as close as I'd like), but I did have a chance to pop off some flight shots. Nothing artistic and I can't post them yet anyway (Lightroom doesn't support the Z6ii yet and I'd sooner chew off my own arm than use Capture NX-D).

Anyway, in reviewing the images on the back LCD panel, I have to say, it's looking pretty good. Most of the shots where sharp (really sharp) and the camera seemed to lock on well and wasn't apt to drop the target - although, it was an easy target! The bad thing was the birds were more at a distance for DX shooting, there was a lot of DoF to cover up errors, even at F/4 with my 600mm. Still, I think from strictly an AF standpoint, it's looking good. It's no D6 or D850, but it can get the job done. I may revise this when I can finally load the images into Lightroom :)

A few other notes...

CH Extended is still a rather useless side show and not good for tracking birds from side to side.

There does seem to be less blackout and lag seems better too - although it's hard to tell this early in the game.

Start up time is WAY better - like a split second! I lost more than a few quick moments when my Z6/7 went into standby mode, I don't think that's a problem anymore.

The new buffer is really good - I never touched it once this evening. I haven't put it through it's paces yet, so I can't give any specifics.

The FTZ adapter did need a firmware update. I thought it was simply an extension cord, but there must be a chip in it. So, that may explain why F mount lenses are slower on the Z cameras - the signals must need translated through the adapter. I haven't tested the AF speed yet with the adapter, but it seems about the same as on the MK I cameras. I could be wrong though, I'll have to test.

Also, I was able to leave Apply Settings To Live View turned on and performance was great. I always shut it off with the first Z6, but never felt the need to tonight.

Obviously, I'm just getting started with it, but so far, so good :)

Update 11-10-2020

I was out again this morning with the Z6ii, this time after bucks in a local park. A couple quick notes.

I was using the same battery as before and ended up shooting a lot more than I wanted (I'll explain why in a moment). However, I did want to mention battery life because I know there was some concern. I charged the battery when I received it ands do far have shot 1800+ images with the camera. My charge shows exactly 50%. This is just normal shooting, not too much chimping but some menu diving (I'm kind of setting it up as I go because, well, I'm lazy).

I'm pretty happy with the battery life and I think part of it is because the shorter startup time allows for a shorter standby timer. With the first versions of the cameras, I would set a 5 minute timer because it took so long to wake back up when it went into standby. That way, if I was waiting for something to happen I was always ready. Now, I have standby set to just 1 minute - if it goes into standby mode, it's on in less than a second, no big deal and it less battery usage :)

By the way, and this applies to all the Zs, I found another use for the CH Extended feature this morning. I was photographing a buck who was striking some nice poses, but he was also vigorously chewing his cud at the same time. I used the 10FPS (shooting 14 bit RAW, so I can't hit 14) frame rate to knock out longer series of shots as he chewed so I can capture a few with his mouth closed and not in some weird chewing position. Since he was just looking at the camera, the slide show wasn't a problem and in fact worked to my advantage since I could spot when I got the shot (about 1 in 5 it seemed). Oh, and so far, I've not hit the buffer with my XQD card in there - even for longer sequences at the higher frame rate. (I did a quick test, looks like just over 130 shots on an XQD card shooting in 14 bit RAW - for the little mini review video I'm planning, I'll get you some more thorough numbers).
Click to expand...
Steve, Matt Irwin in Melbourne (Australia) thinks he may have worked out a way to process the RAW files from his Z6 II onto his computer (yes, like you not a huge fan of Capture NX-D) but he's able to work around it till the Adobe software is updated. Skip to the 10 min mark to get the good oil....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwTZODTCr1Q
 
Member's gallery
Just landed on this great forum, hello everybody, I am Antonio from Rome Italy
I tested the same work around to open Z6 II raw files by using another Efix editor software: Metalmage for MacOs.
Of course it works.
My Z6II will arrive next week and I am impatient to test on BIF with the 70-200 S 2.0X combo
 
Member's gallery
The battery consumption works just like the one I have for the Z6. The design of battery use is really intelligent, as it will prevent you from running dry while in use. The batteries are hot-swappable, allowing for battery changes while the camera is still making images (a bonus for video and time-lapse photographers).
I finally managed to crack into some of my raw files. I used an EXIF editor to rename my camera to a Z6 instead of Z6II.
Here's one shot, though it says little about its responsiveness... just a decent picture of a buck.
WhiteTail_BL00163.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
Once again there is nothing amazing about these images. The deer in my area tend to hang deep in the woods, and the clutter of brush is unavoidable. However, it is this brush that makes for a great test of the AF system. The first image was shot with single point AF and the 2nd with dynamic... BTW, I really wish Nikon would update the firmware to make the switch between two modes a "one button press" rather than "press & spin the dial," this little change would make the AF user experience so much better!
Anyway, the AF system nailed the focus on the eyes. Most impressive was that the eye of the semi-obscured deer was dead on despite the hanging vines... All images were shot with an adapted 200-400VR from a tripod with VR off.
Buck_BL00204.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Buck_BL00310.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
Sounds like I'm going to be sticking with my d850/d500 combo for wildlife for another year. Really a bummer nikon could not squeeze faster fps rate out of the dual processors. For whatever reason, so far they just don't seem to care much about wildlife/sports/action shooters.

Which leads to my other question....whether nikon will release a d850 successor dslr this coming year. Personally I hope not. They should imo be focused 100% on developing mirrorless. They really need a competitor to today's best camera, the R5. The funny thing is that the R5 is basically a mirrorless D850 with current tech.
 
Member's gallery
I wonder if the "slideshow effect" can't be addressed with the additional processor because of a limitation with the actual sensor readout? I hope not and instead hope that they just haven't had time to fully optimise the firmware to take advantage of the extra processor but time will tell I guess.
 
Member's gallery
I'm not an electrical engineer, so take my thoughts with a huge grain of salt; I suspect that your point is spot on. The camera may be limited by the design of the sensor, such that Nikon cannot maintain a constant LiveView feed, focus, and capture faster than 5.5 fps.
AFIAC, 5.5 fps is fast enough for everything but birds in flight. I will continue to use my DSLR bodies for the latter. The mix of focal length limits and unpredictable behavior make the D500 w/ 500PF my avian rig. For everything else, I prefer a more contemplative approach... When shooting from a blind, a kayak, or on my feet, I find that I don't need a high capture rate to make the images of mammals that I like to capture.
At this point I am faced with an expensive dilemma... Get the new 70-200S w/ 1.4x or stay w/ my 200-400 f4 and wait to see what Nikon introduces next year... lack of patience and desire to shoot native Z-glass has me wanting to do the former, the logical less impulsive me knows that I should stick with the later... :D
 
Member's gallery
The photographic media, and internet forums notably(!) continues to rack up the pressure to "move to mirrorless". Personally I'm agnostic about this, and in fact MILC makes sound sense for most genres exemplified by macro and landscape. Action genres are a very different matter - wildlife especially. For many of us, Money is the big pachyderm in the room. Realistic investment in MILC for action will not be cheap.

Action genres tend to demand fast lenses, and ideally E type AFS / AFP with top end their AF and electronic diaphragms. One has to add on a zero or more to the unit price to capture wildlife action scenes, which have to reach out to 300 - 400 f2.8 and 500/600 f4 etc. Nikon's excellent fast zooms are also industry leaders, and even more expensive (120-300 f2.8E, 180-400 f4E TC14). The 300 f4 PF and 500 f5.6 PF are the most affordable primes, and/or 70-200 f2.8E FL: unless one opts for the more affordable zoom telephotos (very good IQ but slower). especially as the only Z Nikkor so far is the 70-200 f2.8S with its pair of TCs. Absolutely excellent optic but it's reach comes as a 140-400 f5.6. Sufficient examples, and enough said about the fiscal facts of costly glass. Bottom Line: these exotic F-mount telephotos will see many years of active service.

Back of the envelope sums underscore the prices of a top end MILC (ie rumoured Z8, or CaSony "equal"). Any option must cost much more than a Used D5, D850. A D500 costs much less, especially Used. In buying a boxed DSLR upgrading the D5-D500-D850, we can be confident it will deliver, unlike the bleeding-edge of MILC AFC, which is still a work in progress, and pure speculation as to specs in the case of the Z8. If action features in the future of a wildlife camera, many of us will rather put our money on one of the triumvirate, perhaps a D6 or (hopefully) a D880, with the ability to persist with existing F-mount telephotos.


cohenfive said:
Sounds like I'm going to be sticking with my d850/d500 combo for wildlife for another year. Really a bummer nikon could not squeeze faster fps rate out of the dual processors. For whatever reason, so far they just don't seem to care much about wildlife/sports/action shooters.

Which leads to my other question....whether nikon will release a d850 successor dslr this coming year. Personally I hope not. They should imo be focused 100% on developing mirrorless. They really need a competitor to today's best camera, the R5. The funny thing is that the R5 is basically a mirrorless D850 with current tech.
Click to expand...
 
Member's gallery
To follow up on the economics of the F-mount legacy, as well as its all round maturity....

In ~12-18 months, it will be interesting to reexamine the capabilities of MILC options for action shooting with fast telephotos. Even if we have answers to some of the big questions, the new Z technology will be right at the bleeding edge - high costs omnipresent (optics especially). If on schedule they will have scoped out the overall diversity of the Z system by early 2021 (400, 600, Z8 etc). These products are nowhere near the starting blocks.

To my mind, it makes solid strategic sense to build a D880 on the best of the D6 (ie AF) married with EXPEED6 and i-Menu et al with key Zed components (notably the Z7 sensor). This will present in one formidable Pro camera, if it combines D6 AFC and Custom menus with the PDAF of the Z7 II. And it perpetuates the venerable lives of the ENEL15 and ENEL18 batteries. And for a D550, simply substitute Z50 sensor for Z7's ;);) :D

Nikon's shrinking slice of the ILC pie must be costing its executives in much lost sleep. These same executives must also be grimacing as to how to recover revenue on R&D costs : not only the Z system but also the D6. Its AF development must have eaten up a sizable pile of hard cash. Moreover, besides corporate write offs (eg one factory), as with all sales of ILC products over 2020, consider the D6 is still jogging in its very very slow first lap - sales are likely depressed as sports pros wait out the pandemic. As Nikon prioritize growing the scope of the Z system upwards and outwards, they must surely see the plain logic in tactics to tempt installed investors in the F system to buy new.

New top tier DSLR models will be a finite but reliable and steady seller, provided each perpetuates and upgrades the best of the Nikon brand. As many sports pros wait for income-earning events to justify new gear (eg D6, 120-300 f2.8), hobbyists and wildlife pros are a far more dependable market. Many in this brigade do have decent spending power. They ain't constrained to packed stadia :D Production costs of a D880 will be trimmed down - as will a D550 (?) - as it will largely be a parts-bin camera. But no ways will this provenance weaken the status of such a DSLR.


fcotterill said:
The photographic media, and internet forums notably(!) continues to rack up the pressure to "move to mirrorless". Personally I'm agnostic about this, and in fact MILC makes sound sense for most genres exemplified by macro and landscape. Action genres are a very different matter - wildlife especially. For many of us, Money is the big pachyderm in the room. Realistic investment in MILC for action will not be cheap.

Action genres tend to demand fast lenses, and ideally E type AFS / AFP with top end their AF and electronic diaphragms. One has to add on a zero or more to the unit price to capture wildlife action scenes, which have to reach out to 300 - 400 f2.8 and 500/600 f4 etc. Nikon's excellent fast zooms are also industry leaders, and even more expensive (120-300 f2.8E, 180-400 f4E TC14). The 300 f4 PF and 500 f5.6 PF are the most affordable primes, and/or 70-200 f2.8E FL: unless one opts for the more affordable zoom telephotos (very good IQ but slower). especially as the only Z Nikkor so far is the 70-200 f2.8S with its pair of TCs. Absolutely excellent optic but it's reach comes as a 140-400 f5.6. Sufficient examples, and enough said about the fiscal facts of costly glass. Bottom Line: these exotic F-mount telephotos will see many years of active service.

Back of the envelope sums underscore the prices of a top end MILC (ie rumoured Z8, or CaSony "equal"). Any option must cost much more than a Used D5, D850. A D500 costs much less, especially Used. In buying a boxed DSLR upgrading the D5-D500-D850, we can be confident it will deliver, unlike the bleeding-edge of MILC AFC, which is still a work in progress, and pure speculation as to specs in the case of the Z8. If action features in the future of a wildlife camera, many of us will rather put our money on one of the triumvirate, perhaps a D6 or (hopefully) a D880, with the ability to persist with existing F-mount telephotos.
Click to expand...
 
Member's gallery
fcotterill said:
To follow up on the economics of the F-mount legacy, as well as its all round maturity....

In ~12-18 months, it will be interesting to reexamine the capabilities of MILC options for action shooting with fast telephotos. Even if we have answers to some of the big questions, the new Z technology will be right at the bleeding edge - high costs omnipresent (optics especially). If on schedule they will have scoped out the overall diversity of the Z system by early 2021 (400, 600, Z8 etc). These products are nowhere near the starting blocks.

To my mind, it makes solid strategic sense to build a D880 on the best of the D6 (ie AF) married with EXPEED6 and i-Menu et al with key Zed components (notably the Z7 sensor). This will present in one formidable Pro camera, if it combines D6 AFC and Custom menus with the PDAF of the Z7 II. And it perpetuates the venerable lives of the ENEL15 and ENEL18 batteries. And for a D550, simply substitute Z50 sensor for Z7's ;);) :D

Nikon's shrinking slice of the ILC pie must be costing its executives in much lost sleep. These same executives must also be grimacing as to how to recover revenue on R&D costs : not only the Z system but also the D6. Its AF development must have eaten up a sizable pile of hard cash. Moreover, besides corporate write offs (eg one factory), as with all sales of ILC products over 2020, consider the D6 is still jogging in its very very slow first lap - sales are likely depressed as sports pros wait out the pandemic. As Nikon prioritize growing the scope of the Z system upwards and outwards, they must surely see the plain logic in tactics to tempt installed investors in the F system to buy new.

New top tier DSLR models will be a finite but reliable and steady seller, provided each perpetuates and upgrades the best of the Nikon brand. As many sports pros wait for income-earning events to justify new gear (eg D6, 120-300 f2.8), hobbyists and wildlife pros are a far more dependable market. Many in this brigade do have decent spending power. They ain't constrained to packed stadia :D Production costs of a D880 will be trimmed down - as will a D550 (?) - as it will largely be a parts-bin camera. But no ways will this provenance weaken the status of such a DSLR.
Click to expand...
As to the 880 - I think it's almost a certainty. I can't imagine them not using the new stuff they have on just the D6 - seems like a lot of research / expense just for that. Plus, there are still a lot of people who prefer DSLRs.
 
Member's gallery
Well I for one would salivate if they release a D880 with better performance with similar resolution. That, or the equivalent in mirrorless (ie a canon r5 rebadged as nikon) will keep me in the nikon camp for a long time. Right now it's their glass, not bodies, that are doing so. I hope you are right Steve, and I hope it comes out soon. Maybe that's why nikon dumped the price of the d850 to clear out stock...which was successful.
 
Member's gallery
I will not be selling out to Sony, or any other maker for that matter...I have more than 60 years invested in Nikon to change horses now. In the same breath, the wet dream idea Nikon will be pitching a D-whatever to replace the D850 gives me goosepumps...an improved BIF/fast action AFer than the D850 and thus another interim, outstanding camera to let me stay the course until Nikon’s mirror camera gets me even with their DSLR AF capablility...laissez bon temps rouler.
 
Member's gallery
Before getting the Z6 I always used Nikon DX DSLR cameras for wildlife. Never used to do much BIF, I concentrated more on little birds in the foliage and larger waders and wild animals. My long lens is the Nikkor 200-500mm, and I was always satisfied with its performance for the wildlife work I do. Then, a year ago, I got the Z6. This camera was a frustration to use for fast-moving wildlife. The autofocus speed of the 200-500mm lens is reduced by about 50% on the Z6. This resulted in many, many lost shots of the little birds. As they hopped around from branch to branch they just did not sit still for long enough to allow focus to lock when the long lens was on the Z6.

Enter the Z6ii. I purchased one of those last Sunday. I haven't had much chance to test it yet, but initial observations indicate the autofocus speed of the long lens is back to where it was with the DSLR cameras. Also, the AF tracking of flying birds works MUCH better than with the old Z6. I was surprised to see how fast it locked on to a flying goose, and how well it stuck to the goose while it was flying away from me. There was very little contrast difference between the bird and the water, but the focus held. Shooting little birds in the backyard, focus locks faster than with the old Z6, and it is also less influenced by surrounding foliage, something that was also reported by others a few times.

So, early days, but I'm very pleased with the camera so far. I think the Z6ii makes a good all-purpose camera, just like my D7500.
 
Member's gallery
@Rassie I am exactly in the same situation: D7500 coupled with 200-500mm or 300 PF.
I held back and did not go for the Z6 (AF issue) or Z50 (lack of IBIS)..
I was almost certain of buying a 2nd D7500 on Black Friday next week.
Now after reading your review.. I might hold back and consider buying the Z6 ii instead.
Look forward to more feedback on mark ii..
 
Member's gallery
I carried D 500 and 500 PF on a jungle trek today.We found a pair of Short toed snake eagles at some distance and took few shots before they flew away.
During post processing I realised that I should have carried my D 850 for the higher resolution and better cropping.
Hence I plan to wait for Z 7ii rather than Z 6ii if it's AF is as good as Z 6ii for the higher resolution and better cropping ability
Else I will wait for Z9 :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top