Is Nikon positioning the Z8 to NOT be a wildlife/bird camera?

[JAJohnson]

IMHO, Matt is wrong in his opinions in this video and has no inside knowledge. Nikon has already announced (Ricci, I believe) that the Z8 will get bird-AF in 2024.

Nikon, in its press release regarding the firmware 4.1 update for Z9, said this: “…in a firmware update planned for release in the first half of 2024 for the Nikon Z 8, the dedicated bird subject detection option will be added…”

I pay little attention to Matt Granger’s opinions. I feel significantly better informed by Steve’s guidance.

 

[StevieJSmall]

Didn’t realize people had strong disdain for Matt Granger, that’s interesting to me.

I watch his content and while I do not agree with his opinion on this particular subject at all, I do think he does tend to offer “solid” viewpoints more often than not.

As stated by others, Nikon has already said Z 8 would get Bird Subject Detection sometime in 1st half of 2024 and while it’s possible they could change their mind, don’t see that happening here.

The Z 8 really feels positioned to the Z 9 as the D850 is positioned to the D6/D5, basically both being extremely capable for pros, semi pros and serious enthusiasts with the flagships getting the best of the best first.

All in all, I think the Z 8 users who are disappointed now will be thrilled in a few months time.

As an aside, I can’t wait to see what firmware 5.0 brings to the Z 9. So cool that Nikon continues to refine and improve (mostly) this camera two years after launch.

 

[Cameron T]

Iirc, he was the one who shot with the 600f4 holding the body only. Made me cringe.

 

[Lance B]

No, no, no. The Z8 will still be a wildlife and birding camera just as much as the Z9 is. The fact that it has other modes that the Z9 means nothing other than it may be more of a jack of all trades like the D850 was compared to the D5/D6. I can't believe he made such a statement unless he is looking for clicks but this is then fraught with danger as it makes him look ill-informed and thus will put people off future presentations by him. As others have stated, the Z8 will get the birding upgrade early next year.

 

[John Navitsky]

All in all, I think the Z 8 users who are disappointed now will be thrilled in a few months time.

i think it’s going to take more than a fw upgrade to make those disappointed with the z8 happy

 

[StevieJSmall]

i think it’s going to take more than a fw upgrade to make those disappointed with the z8 happy

That's probably true, although I was referencing the Bird Subject Detection update specifically with respect to making those Z 8 owners happy. If anyone is unhappy with their Z 8 for other reasons that can't be addressed via Firmware...well, nothing anyone can do for them sadly.

 

[dabhand16]

I don't know anyone who shoots portraits or people in general who would use in camera skin softening.

 

[RockvilleBob]

My biases against him aside, no. I don't think so.

My guess is auto capture is a high battery drain and heat producer, which the Z8 can deal with less effectively (but it might go to it eventually anyway). CFE/SD on the z8 was due to space considerations, and maybe heat.

I think it's just his opinion on the subject, and everyone who agrees is hyper critical of things when it's still one of the top 10 cameras (if not top 5) out there right now.

I am enjoying Auto Capture a lot. Battery life is spot on. Auto Capture has been the the only issue where battery life has been an issue for me using the Z9. My guess is that a Z8 running Auto Capture would have a short battery life. Like any trap photography getting a good shot takes luck and time.

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[JoPoV]

ie, where you prefer smaller size and don’t need the features that come along with the larger format

euh, street photography on the run ?

 

[Airborne Soldier]

I recently watched a YouTube video by Matt Granger on the new Z9 4.1 firmware update and he made an observation which made me sit-up and take notice!

With the recent 4.1 upgrade adding the new & improved bird subject detection feature, he speculated that Nikon is starting to diverge the two cameras; positioning the Z9 for bird and wildlife photography, and the Z8 more for things like portraiture. For example, he points out that the Z8 has a "Skin softening" feature, which the Z9 does not. He goes on to point out that the Z9 has two CFe card slots (which he implies wildlife photographers would want to have), while the Z8 has a single CFe and an SD card slot.

What also came to mind for me (which he doesn't mention) is that in a recent, previous firmware update, Nikon gave the Z9 the "Auto-Capture" feature, but NOT the Z8.

Could it be that Nikon may leave all of us bird & nature photographers who bought a Z8 in the lurch?

What do you think, and how do you feel about this possibility?

To see Matt's comments, here's the video:

His Z9 vs. Z8 comments are between the 3:02 and 4:18 minute marks.

Not sure why in the lurch. The Z9 is the high performance camera of the 2 (Z8 and Z9) Just like the D6 and D850 were distinguished the same way, D6 for performance and D850 not. If the Z8 had all the capabilities of the Z9 then why buy a Z9?

 

[Geoff_G]

If the Z8 isn't for bird photography then the Z9 isn't for airplane photography.
Geeze....who comes up with this crap?
Oh, yeah, Grainger - he's lost all credibility with nonsense like that.
Move along from click-baiters and read this forum for solid opinions on photography.

 

[arbitrage]

Do yourself a favor and never watch a Granger video ever again.

 

[jeffnles1]

I seriously doubt if the positioning is a matter of what type of photography and separating them along those lines. I see it more as the Z9 is the full featured, full of bells and whistles model and the Z8 is less featured (i.e. no built in grip, smaller power supply, etc). Car companies have been doing this for years with similar models separated by options, and trim levels and even size differences. A Honda CR-v EX-L and a Honda CR-v Sport Touring Hybrid are essentially the same vehicle. One gets a little better fuel economy in city driving, ut they have similar horsepower, same ride quality, one has a couple more features.

I think Nikon is doing essentially the same thing. Just how they build, price and market. I seriously doubt they are intentionally marketing one to portrait photogs and one to nature and wildlife. That makes little sense.

I don't dislike Matt the way some here seem to. Some of his stuff is pretty good some is questionable the same as some opinions on this board are good and some are not so much. We're all fallible humans. Even I have made a mistake or two. ( )

Jeff

 

[Steve]

FWIW, when I was talking to the Nikon rep while doing the FW review, it was pretty clear they are REALLY targeting the bird and wildlife market now and the Z8 is an integral part of that strategy. Nothing to worry about, it just takes time to get FW updates done and they can't do it all at once. I often think the departments at Nikon are smaller than we might imagine and they can only do so much at a time.

 

[Cameron T]

I'm pretty sure nikons core strategy at this point has two prongs: make really top end lenses and bodies (when possible for the price bracket), and at the same time release more consumer friendly gear (I count the 180-600 here, as it's a steal for the price to be honest) and likely upcoming z6/z500(whatever dx top tier body will be called) at prices that undercut the competition while still being knockouts.

 

[fcotterill]

I'm pretty sure nikons core strategy at this point has two prongs: make really top end lenses and bodies (when possible for the price bracket), and at the same time release more consumer friendly gear (I count the 180-600 here, as it's a steal for the price to be honest) and likely upcoming z6/z500(whatever dx top tier body will be called) at prices that undercut the competition while still being knockouts.

Yes. Nikon's perfectly clear about it's strategy... deploy Z9 features into more cameras for Hobbyists. Pricing of the two released so far is aggressive.
The Zf is the latest release with high feature value at its price, but
It's even tougher to beat the bang/buck of the Z8 :
"The Z8 is NOT a mini Z9. It IS a Z9 -- with the bottom lopped off and $1,500 lopped off. ... "

 

[EricBowles]

I don't know anyone who shoots portraits or people in general who would use in camera skin softening.

Actually for portrait work it's quite effective. For most portraits of people the settings and post processing are quite different from wildlife. Camera skin softening means much faster workflow and output ready images for people who do that kind of work. It's especially important for women - men often are portrayed with a more textured skin.

 

[Chris K]

“I found a conspiracy! Click here to learn about it!”

Nikon has limited resources to develop and test software. They had to prioritize one model, and the fury would be more justifiable if it were released first for the Z8.

 

[jpgrove]

Let's look at this logically, the Z9 had high development costs with high returns, purchased by people who are prepared to pay for it. You need to keep those customers happy.

So you bring in a Z8 cheaper to make, having already recouped your RnD costs on the Z9 customers, if you make the cameras identical in performance then you will loose the customers in the first sentence who will simply wait it out.

Nikon must differentiate between the 2 models, the easiest way is in firmware with some engineering limitations, such as power usage and heat.

I dont agree or disagree with Matt, but I do agree Nikon will keep some options out of the Z8 for lots of reasons. So you give the best to the Z9, let the firmware mature with those users and then provide it to the Z8 later on. That's being said its highly unlikely that Auto Capture will come to the Z8 that is one feature (which is pretty unique in its uses) that will likely stay with the Z9 again for lots of reasons.

In terms of AF Nikon will match options across both models, as that will help sell camera bodies and lenses. But Z8 owners may need to wait a few months following the Z9 users obtaining it.

Another important factor, is that YouTube is full of people who have to speculate because they have to put a video out each week in order to keep the revenue and marketing opportunities coming in. So as with Nikon Rumours it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The fact that Nikon have said the Z8 will get the AF updates recently introduced to the Z9 and made no comment (apart from the Nikon USA mess up) is a good indication that Auto Capture is not due in the Z8 anytime soon, if you need that feature you need a Z9

 

[EricBowles]

Let's look at this logically, the Z9 had high development costs with high returns, purchased by people who are prepared to pay for it. You need to keep those customers happy.

So you bring in a Z8 cheaper to make, having already recouped your RnD costs on the Z9 customers, if you make the cameras identical in performance then you will loose the customers in the first sentence who will simply wait it out.

Nikon must differentiate between the 2 models, the easiest way is in firmware with some engineering limitations, such as power usage and heat.

I dont agree or disagree with Matt, but I do agree Nikon will keep some options out of the Z8 for lots of reasons. So you give the best to the Z9, let the firmware mature with those users and then provide it to the Z8 later on. That's being said its highly unlikely that Auto Capture will come to the Z8 that is one feature (which is pretty unique in its uses) that will likely stay with the Z9 again for lots of reasons.

In terms of AF Nikon will match options across both models, as that will help sell camera bodies and lenses. But Z8 owners may need to wait a few months following the Z9 users obtaining it.

Another important factor, is that YouTube is full of people who have to speculate because they have to put a video out each week in order to keep the revenue and marketing opportunities coming in. So as with Nikon Rumours it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The fact that Nikon have said the Z8 will get the AF updates recently introduced to the Z9 and made no comment (apart from the Nikon USA mess up) is a good indication that Auto Capture is not due in the Z8 anytime soon, if you need that feature you need a Z9

I agree with this in general, but it's not just to keep the Z9 ahead. The Z9 has no hardware limitations in comparison to the Z8 and lower cameras. Anything you can put on a Z8 can be delivered in a Z9 - but not the other way around. The Z8 has a smaller battery, less ability to manage heat, and is running the same processor - often with consumer level CFExpress cards. It's got to be able to operate at current performance and incorporate new features without breaking anything.

I do expect to see the Z8 firmware team pick up most of the new Z9 capabilities, but it's not automatic because they are hardware limited. There is also a matter of timing - a firmware update cycle is not free, and any enhancements need a significant development effort to be moved into a new camera.

I'm not going to rule out Auto Capture or any of the Bird AF enhancements. But knowing that the main development is done, they are probably planned for a major firmware update in the future with a timeframe already decided. It's a lot easier effort if they are combining several new features from the Z9 into one firmware update. That alone could be reason enough to wait on the timing of the Z8 update since we don't know what else might be planned for the Z9 and included in the future Z8 package.

 

[SCoombs]

Actually for portrait work it's quite effective. For most portraits of people the settings and post processing are quite different from wildlife. Camera skin softening means much faster workflow and output ready images for people who do that kind of work. It's especially important for women - men often are portrayed with a more textured skin.

I don't know... I can't imagine people doing professional portrait work shooting in jpeg and doing very minimal editing. Studio work seems like the sort of thing that people would be investing more effort into getting it perfect rather than less. Heck, these days many if them are using a green screen anyways which by its nature necessitates more editing.

 

[Whiskeyman]

The title of the video should tell you all you need to know. Just a campaign for more views. I’ve always found him to be a bit irritating.

Yep! Clickbait!

Realize that he, and many others, are really after viewers less informed and knowledgeable than those here.

 

[Whiskeyman]

... My guess is that a Z8 running Auto Capture would have a short battery life. Like any trap photography getting a good shot takes luck and time...

Which makes me think that Nikon should make external battery connections for the Z8. A system where multiple batteries could be connected to the camera via wire would please some users, as well as selling more Nikon batteries.

 

[DougC]

Which makes me think that Nikon should make external battery connections for the Z8. A system where multiple batteries could be connected to the camera via wire would please some users, as well as selling more Nikon batteries.

Better yet, a grip that would allow use of the EN-EL18d but of course that will never happen.

 

[DRwyoming]

Which makes me think that Nikon should make external battery connections for the Z8. A system where multiple batteries could be connected to the camera via wire would please some users, as well as selling more Nikon batteries.

You can basically do that now. The Z8 can be externally powered or the internal battery externally charged via the USB connector from any PD compatible power source. It’s very easy to connect a PD power bank for very long battery life while doing things like auto capture.

There are many PD power banks out there with different capacities at good prices.