Is Nikon positioning the Z8 to NOT be a wildlife/bird camera?

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True. Do you think Nikon is testing every scenario possible? It would take them decades. That’s the reason modern software isn’t written anymore in plain “C” but rather in object oriented syntax in a modular structure.

To my naked eyes, the AF is segmented not only in types of subject recognition, but also in terms of code. Its blocks of code. Each block should be able to be individually tweaked without effecting other blocks of code. That’s software engineering basics.

In the same time I can’t comment with certainty on a topic I don’t know all the information about it.
All I “want” is the 600/6.3 with the Z8 AF update….
I agree that they can't test very scenario, but my guess is that they are doing a lot of testing to help make sure things work as expected.

I'm not a software engineer (I used to do some programming a couple of decades ago), but I seem to recall them having issues with certain scenarios where if X was set to Y then with Z enabled, an issue occurred. I think that's the kind of thing they are trying to sort out. No way to know.

However, what I do know is that they like to be careful - and that they are working to capture the bird and wildlife market. I also know, firsthand, that the Z8 is a major part of that strategy, so I'm confident they are not deliberately delaying any firmware releases. There's no real benefit to delay, especially with Z8 users almost screaming for the update. It doesn't pay to upset your customers if you can avoid it :)

The other thought I had is that they may be working on a firmware 2.0 for the Z8 and maybe this is part of that and not really getting tacked on as a single update. It may be that this part is ready (or close to ready) but the rest isn't. Just guessing.
 
Object oriented programming has been much discussed for at least the past 40 years but the reality is that the tools and skills needed to not exist. Ever notice how most applications updates entail a complete overwrite of the existing application and its libraries?

Nikon is going to want to have the Z8 be as much like the Z9 with regard to its firmware as possible. It makes it a lot easier to support the two cameras and control updates. The two cameras are not exactly the same and so one should expect minor differences.

Nikon produced the F100 that was a good substitute for the F3 for most photographers. Some chose the F3 as it was the "best" and others chose the F100 as their primary or as a backup camera. I see no difference with those buying a Z8 or a Z7 II camera. These are simply tools and all can make use of the full line of Nikon Z lenses.
 
One one hand we are told the Z8 is a Z9 minus this and that.
In the brain we see it as easy. Use the Z9 firmware, ‘save as’ Z8 then simply turn off those hardware features the Z8 doesn’t have, like GPS, etc.

In reality though, could be this is what the Nikon software engineers did to start with, but found a completely new firmware.

I remember years back when I learned apple’s objective-C ver 3.1…

I had the Roland arranger keyboards, EM-2000, G-1000 and E-80
One with 76 keys no speakers, and other with only 61 keys with speakers, etc.
Very similar story we have now with the Z9/8
I managed to load the firmware from one keyboard into another… changing features and logos….

Like Steve said, let’s wait and see.
 
Does it take that long for Nikon to add the new Bird AF for the Z8? Same hardware inside. Why such a long time period?

Edit: as per Steve, it needs some tweaking, let’s hope when the Z8 gets it, the Z9 would have it tweaked
It may have partly to do with the way that the batteries are utilized whilst driving the camera and AF system of the lenses, the Z8 having a lower output voltage and overall total power amount compared to the Z9. So, with this in mind, this may be because there are economies utilized for lower power drain and other issues and this needs to go through more rigorous testing in order to get the best results for best performance longevity for the Z8 battery.
 
Based on Z9 not getting "Birds" in Auto Capture, this is harder than it looks or at least takes more time. Further I don't think the Z8 will get all the features of the Z9. There is more to a price difference and flagship, than gripped or not. The Z8 has a different layout. One of the costs of the Z8 is waiting, as it's not the flagship. Also Steve's point about it being part of 2.0 could be spot on.
 
All this speculation (will they, won't they) is pretty pointless unless you believe that Nikon will take any notice of it. I'm content to wait and see, especially as Nikon have said they will be improving the firmware for the Z8.
I am happy with my Z8/500PF combination with the camera set up as Steve suggests and will be pleased if it gets even better. As for changing either the camera or the lens for something more expensive - I would rather spend the money on a few more trips.

Chaz
 
I recently watched a YouTube video by Matt Granger on the new Z9 4.1 firmware update and he made an observation which made me sit-up and take notice!

With the recent 4.1 upgrade adding the new & improved bird subject detection feature, he speculated that Nikon is starting to diverge the two cameras; positioning the Z9 for bird and wildlife photography, and the Z8 more for things like portraiture. For example, he points out that the Z8 has a "Skin softening" feature, which the Z9 does not. He goes on to point out that the Z9 has two CFe card slots (which he implies wildlife photographers would want to have), while the Z8 has a single CFe and an SD card slot.

What also came to mind for me (which he doesn't mention) is that in a recent, previous firmware update, Nikon gave the Z9 the "Auto-Capture" feature, but NOT the Z8.

Could it be that Nikon may leave all of us bird & nature photographers who bought a Z8 in the lurch?

What do you think, and how do you feel about this possibility?

To see Matt's comments, here's the video:
His Z9 vs. Z8 comments are between the 3:02 and 4:18 minute marks.

The Z8 to me is a stop gap model, short notice sudden launch, quick availability, hurried, sadly with some QC issues.
I feel its more like an interim model to buy time and protect Nikon customers from whats coming soon from the opposition.
Also with all this good light glass its a bit of a contradiction to expect everyone mostly consumers to swing a Z9 of the end of a 400 or 600 PF lens, so the Z8 is far better.

The ZF is showing some interesting technical tid bits not in the Z8 or Z9, a window into the future, maybe.

I think for MG the general public of photographers which is his main target audience he is doing the right thing for them, he is offering his opinion simply and reasonably, and if new buyers were asking him about the Z9 Versus the Z8 yes its fair to say they are very similar technically yet they are also different, if your not a full time Pro or into lots of long heavy video then the Z8 is a far better user friendly choice, the Z8 is a very high performing all round amazing camera absolutely usable for wild life or action as well as everything else, the Z8 is lighter smaller easier to walk around and travel with and unless you need all that extra video capacity, its a no brainier especially for the ladies who often don't like bulk size or excessive weight. Some of the ladies in our camera club recently opted for the Z8 purely because of this.

I personally feel at launch the Z8 being left close to the Z9 was possibly to keep the Z9 like interest momentum going and encourage the D850 owners to finally come across, now the Z8 has pipe lined somewhat up-scaling the Z9 a little is smart as its been knocked around on resale because of the Z8.

Has the Z8 done well in sales ??? i don't know..........

The Z9 is really due for a hardware update soon, again the Z8 to me is a stop gap model to fill the gap or vulnerability of Nikon owners yet to come across as Canon and Sony are coming out with new toys that will be next level hopefully. I anticipate Nikon will lag then catch up, but they don't want to be left to far behind this time round as mirror less is a dynamic geekish game to be playing in.

I think the ZF is a good unit and fits the bill well as the new Z6III, I am really hoping that the 45mp Z7III replacement version will be out soon.

The Z9 is great, as is the amazing Z8 and its does most of what i personally need, would i like the Z9 to be smaller lighter, yes, selling the Z9 to get a Z8 doesn't make sense as i feel the Z9 has a lot more head room for expansion.

The ZF is showing a little new features of whats to come, will some of the ibis features and other tid bits come into the Z8 Z9 who knows.

2024 i feel we may see a Z9 S or Z9 II...........

Are Z8 owners being left behind, NO, 90% of what is achieved comes from the user if they have any skill sets. I think the greatest benefits are in the glass every time.

Only an opinion
 
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The Z8 to me is a stop gap model, short notice sudden launch, quick availability, hurried, sadly with some QC issues.
Its an interim model to buy time and protect Nikon customers from whats coming soon from the oposition.
Also with all this good light glass its a comntradiction to expect everyone mostly consumers to swing a Z9 of the end of a 400 or 600 PF lens.

The ZF is showing some interesting technical tid bits not in the Z8 or Z9, a window into the future maybe.

I think for MG the general public of photographers which is his main target audience he is doing the right thing for them, he is offering his opinion simply and reasonably, and if new buyers were asking him about the Z9 Versus the Z8 yes its fair to say they are very similar technically yet they are also different, if your not a full time Pro or into lots of long heavy video then the Z8 is a far better user friendly choice, the Z8 is a very high performing all round amazing camera absoluitly usable for wild life or action as well as everything else, the Z8 is lighter smaller easier to walk around and travel with and unless you need all that extra video capacity, its a no brainier especially for the ladies who often don't like bulk size or excessive weight. Some of the ladies in our camera club recently opted for the Z8 purely because of this.

I personally feel at launch the Z8 being left close to the Z9 was possibly to keep the Z9 like interest momentum going and encourage the D850 owners to finally come across, now the Z8 has pipe lined somewhat up-scaling the Z9 a little is smart as its been knocked around on resale because of the Z8.

Has the Z8 done well in sales ??? i don't know..........

The Z9 is really due for a hardware update soon, again the Z8 to me is a stop gap model to fill the gap or vulnerability of Nikon owners yet to come across as Canon and Sony are coming out with new toys that will be next level hopefully. I anticipate Nikon will lag then catch up, but they don't want to be left to far behind this time round as mirror less is a dynamic geekish game to be playing in.

I think the ZF is a good unit and fits the bill well as the new Z6III, I am really hoping that the 45mp Z7III replacement version will be out soon, that's what i would like to see.

The Z9 is great, as is the amazing Z8 and its does most of what i personally need, would i like the Z9 to be smaller lighter, yes, selling the Z9 to get a Z8 doesn't make sense as i feel the Z9 has a lot more head room for expansion.

The ZF is showing a little new features of whats to come, will some of the ibis features and other tid bits come into the Z8 Z9 who knows.

2024 i feel we may see a Z9 S or Z9 II...........

Are Z8 owners being left behind, NO, 90% of what is acheivd comes from the user if they have any skill sets. I think the greatest benafits are in the glass every time.

Only an opinion

A stop gap? Some stop gap! IMO it's an incredible camera. With the competition that prevails between the camera companies you might consider any camera model to be a stop gap - some photographers will spend lots of money getting the newest and best.
The problem with the lens mounting and the strap lugs (the latter unused by me) were speedily fixed by Nikon UK and can now be forgotten. The FPS and focussing are a huge improvement on the D850 that I previously used - thanks Nikon. When the firmware is updated it will be even better.

Chaz
 
A stop gap? Some stop gap! IMO it's an incredible camera. With the competition that prevails between the camera companies you might consider any camera model to be a stop gap - some photographers will spend lots of money getting the newest and best.
The problem with the lens mounting and the strap lugs (the latter unused by me) were speedily fixed by Nikon UK and can now be forgotten. The FPS and focussing are a huge improvement on the D850 that I previously used - thanks Nikon. When the firmware is updated it will be even better.

Chaz
Me too…I look at it as a gripless slightly cheaper Z9 for those that don’t need the grip, weight, and other HW things the Z9 has but want an otherwise pro level performance body. It isn’t a stopgap to me either.
 
True. Do you think Nikon is testing every scenario possible? It would take them decades. That’s the reason modern software isn’t written anymore in plain “C” but rather in object oriented syntax in a modular structure.

To my naked eyes, the AF is segmented not only in types of subject recognition, but also in terms of code. Its blocks of code. Each block should be able to be individually tweaked without effecting other blocks of code. That’s software engineering basics.

In the same time I can’t comment with certainty on a topic I don’t know all the information about it.
All I “want” is the 600/6.3 with the Z8 AF update….

You make a valid point. Software testing is complex, and modular structures offer flexibility. The desire for improved autofocus is understandable, especially with specific preferences.
 
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You make a valid point. Software testing is complex, and modular structures offer flexibility. The desire for improved autofocus is understandable, especially with specific preferences.

Firmware is programming at the lowest level. In this era of object oriented programming working at that level is a rare skill. Getting it right is hard. Some of us remember stacks and heaps, pops and pushes. That’s still the working level of firmware. In some weird part of my mind I think about this while I wander around with my Z8.
 
Firmware is programming at the lowest level. In this era of object oriented programming working at that level is a rare skill. Getting it right is hard. Some of us remember stacks and heaps, pops and pushes. That’s still the working level of firmware. In some weird part of my mind I think about this while I wander around with my Z8.
You are right. Firmware by definition is the interface between the hardware and the software that services the hardware changes. Most likely written in C or assembly language.
 
It much faster.
Faster to load and boot up the camera?
On the flip side, writing in old fashioned C which isn’t objective oriented, would require to re write functional programming numerous times again and again to a length of millions of lines of C code.
Changing, modifying, troubleshooting/fixing a bug, is a nightmare.
I can’t believe that this C is still behind all higher level syntax.
 
Faster to load and boot up the camera?

As a rule of thumb, the easier it is to write code in a certain language, the slower that code will execute and the harder it is to optimize.

On-topic:

The local Nikon importer in my neck of the woods is doing a promo for the Z8 using 8 somewhat famous local photographers. They shoot weddings, portraits, landscapes, sports... but not a single wildlife photographer among them...
 
Faster to load and boot up the camera?
On the flip side, writing in old fashioned C which isn’t objective oriented, would require to re write functional programming numerous times again and again to a length of millions of lines of C code.
Changing, modifying, troubleshooting/fixing a bug, is a nightmare.
I can’t believe that this C is still behind all higher level syntax.
Faster to execute. I used C and assembly language for Aurospace all the time. I guarantee you testing is 80% of the development process.
 
With respect to the firmware, it is highly speculative regarding the specific coding language. Canon uses a proprietary OS system, DryOS which employs a Diab compiler, GNU, and is programmed in Intel C++. There are hacks out there which use Lua and UBasic. I believe Nikon and Sony's OS is based on ITron and likely uses C++ as well.
 
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