Jan Wegener reviews the Z9

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janzin

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Some interesting observations about the AF system but have a strange feeling that he's not quite getting it. I look forward to a more thorough review from Steve. Still, in the end he seems to really like and recommend the camera especially for video. I of course am still waiting on mine so can't comment directly :)

 
Some interesting observations about the AF system but have a strange feeling that he's not quite getting it. I look forward to a more thorough review from Steve. Still, in the end he seems to really like and recommend the camera especially for video. I of course am still waiting on mine so can't comment directly :)



I liked the review. I bought the Z9 predominantly for video. I agree with him when he says that the Z9 struggles a bit to acquire initial lock/focus in certain situations.
 
Interesting review. I guess it shows the Z9 is not the holy grail after all, but high level tech on par with the R5 and the A1, with mostly pros but a few cons.

The absence of a 2nd back button seems strange, especially since he had to use 2 focus areas for every shot, but he found several workarounds I'd think you could get used to.
 
Interesting review. I guess it shows the Z9 is not the holy grail after all, but high level tech on par with the R5 and the A1, with mostly pros but a few cons.

The absence of a 2nd back button seems strange, especially since he had to use 2 focus areas for every shot, but he found several workarounds I'd think you could get used to.

A good review with impressive images and video.

However, he doesn't give enough detail for those of us already having experience with the camera to evaluate some of the nuances.

For starters, we don't really know what tracking lock-on settings he has, or whether he is aware of the restrictions thereof.

He never mentions focus persistence so does he have that set to auto? Is he aware of the restrictions for this?

He also dismisses the shutter/Auto Area AF and back-button transition to 3D tracking method which many of us have adapted to. He doesn't note that the method he suggests loses persistence, which "only applies if you change AF area modes while focusing with the shutter-release button pushed half way" (p605 of Z9RG-02).

I would also note that 3D tracking can be used for an adaptation of the olde "focus and recompose" method. Namely, put the tracking box on the feature you need to in focus and then recompose...The tracking box will remain on the feature, keeping it in focus. For me, this is the reason I just don't need single point autofocus anymore. He doesn't seem to have thought of this.

By and large, his video may show how robust the AF capabilities of the Z9 are even if you don't read the manual.
 
Thanks for sharing Yes, I agree he's honest about the learning curve he encountered... seems to be new to how Nikon AF works, and intricacies of how the major benefit of optimized custom settings and above all training the muscle memory to switch between AF modes.
Sound experience invested in the pro and prosumer DSLRs should mean the Z9 AF is more tangible - its optimizing particularly.
 
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This review is almost word for word what I think about the camera. Video stuff not withstanding as I don’t do that. If I got into wildlife video which I’ve thought about but haven’t committed to just yet, I’d for sure have either anR5/100-500 or Z9/100-400 just for handheld videos. This is where the Sony system is behind. For stills though, in my hands, the choice is clear with Sony. My Z9/500PF went to a happy new owner yesterday.
 
[QUOTE="arbitrage, post: 142873, member: 193"}
For stills though, in my hands, the choice is clear with Sony. My Z9/500PF went to a happy new owner yesterday.
[/QUOTE]

Just brace yourself - half this forum will now label you untrustworthy, arrogant and dismiss every experience you have.
For me, you just saved me from having to do the evaluation myself :) - so thanks for taking one for the team!

And BTW, I also agree that the A1 handheld video capabilities seriously lag Canon R5 and Nikon Z - that's my only disappointment so far. I have to activate in-body electronic stabilization (in addition to Lens OSS and IBIS) with a pretty heavy crop to get even remotely close to what one can do with the R5 + 100/500
 
Haha, one of the Z9's in that is mine (the poor bugger getting wet at the start!)

We had a few decent discussions WRT the some of the nuances of the Z9 and Nikon in general. One thing to remember with Jan is he's a Canon shooter and has got very used to the Canon ergo's etc. WRT button layout, agreed over time it may be more normal or more normal for a Nikon shooter.

Edit, just watched it in full. Fair and balanced WRT the AF i think... i know it's pissed me off a few times, in saying though I'm slowly getting used to it but it does need FW tweaking.
 
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I thought Jan's video was well done and his comments seem to agree with Mark Smith's brief comments today, and apparently Arbitrage seems to agree with Jan's comments. The Z9 is a great camera -- almost a must have for Nikon shooters -- but it's not perfect and IMO not a compelling buy for owners of other mirrorless systems. I've somewhat reluctantly abandoned the idea of going back to Nikon for the Z9 and will stay with my Sony A1 for now. In fact I'm seriously considering wading deeper into videography with an FX6 -- the new picture cache functionality supported by the V2 firmware makes the FX6 a very compelling cine camera for wildlife, even though the FX6's IQ can't match the Z9. I'm going to take a chance that Sony will add support for bird-AF in video, and hopefully improve their IBIS functionality in future cameras.
 
This review is almost word for word what I think about the camera. Video stuff not withstanding as I don’t do that. If I got into wildlife video which I’ve thought about but haven’t committed to just yet, I’d for sure have either anR5/100-500 or Z9/100-400 just for handheld videos. This is where the Sony system is behind. For stills though, in my hands, the choice is clear with Sony. My Z9/500PF went to a happy new owner yesterday.
Did you make a profit on the camera?
 
I thought Jan's video was well done and his comments seem to agree with Mark Smith's brief comments today, and apparently Arbitrage seems to agree with Jan's comments. The Z9 is a great camera -- almost a must have for Nikon shooters -- but it's not perfect and IMO not a compelling buy for owners of other mirrorless systems. I've somewhat reluctantly abandoned the idea of going back to Nikon for the Z9 and will stay with my Sony A1 for now. In fact I'm seriously considering wading deeper into videography with an FX6 -- the new picture cache functionality supported by the V2 firmware makes the FX6 a very compelling cine camera for wildlife, even though the FX6's IQ can't match the Z9. I'm going to take a chance that Sony will add support for bird-AF in video, and hopefully improve their IBIS functionality in future cameras.
I hadn't heard of the FX6, so I looked it up... It appears impressive. Maybe we'll have a video category here sometime.
 
I hadn't heard of the FX6, so I looked it up... It appears impressive. Maybe we'll have a video category here sometime.
Yes, I think that would be great! Mirrorless cameras are introducting video to a whole army of still photography shooters. Videography is very challenging, but at the same time addicting, and rewarding.
 
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This review is almost word for word what I think about the camera.
Hi Arbitrage, if I got it right there were two objections mentioned in the video:
  1. Lack of another button apart of AF-ON for BBF (joystick too unreliable)
  2. Reluctant recognition of animal subjects in a busy background
Am I missing something?
 
For stills though, in my hands, the choice is clear with Sony. My Z9/500PF went to a happy new owner yesterday.

Just brace yourself - half this forum will now label you untrustworthy, arrogant and dismiss every experience you have.
For me, you just saved me from having to do the evaluation myself :) - so thanks for taking one for the team!

And BTW, I also agree that the A1 handheld video capabilities seriously lag Canon R5 and Nikon Z - that's my only disappointment so far. I have to activate in-body electronic stabilization (in addition to Lens OSS and IBIS) with a pretty heavy crop to get even remotely close to what one can do with the R5 + 100/500
My only argument with absolute statements like this is they seem to focus on birds, primarily BIF which can test a cameras and lenses ability to keep a subject in focus, but there are many other forms of wildlife and different situations. As an example, I shoot a lot of black bear which tend to be in shaded forest cover, lack contrast on the face/eyes, and quite often have blades of grass, twigs, or branches nearby, and require higher ISO. This can also be tricky for AF systems in a different way even though the bear tends to move slow. What works best for BIF might not work best here. Steve Matthies mentioned the bison in the snow was better handled by the Z9. Maybe you or @arbitrage have tested on other wildlife like black bear with all cameras and are taking it into consideration. As black bear are in hibernation I haven’t been able to and haven’t seen any comparisons. I have seen the Z9 detect the eyes of fish, lizards, birds, raccoons, squirrels, and birds, as well as the bodies of dolphins. I’m sure the best cameras do well in most of these situations, but not seeing comparisons. If you have tested, or even better compared the top cameras with other subjects, please share your findings as I am not a birder and am curious. If not, I‘d appreciate it if you could add “best for birds” to the comment. I’m not trying to disrespectful, just not into birds as much as most others here.
 
After having used the camera for more than a month now, I think both Jan Wegener and Arbitrage make valid points and I value their input. I have no experience with the other mirrorless cameras but they do. Sometimes if the subject is distant I do a quick pre-focus with Single Point, then use Wide Area AF or 3D because there are times when these modes don't pick up subjects in the distance. However, the Z9 is the best Nikon camera I've ever used though and that's enough for me. It's challenging to get the most from it because there are simply so many options. I found the back button issue to be a problem for me and I'm trying shutter-button focus for the second time and it makes more sense for this camera. Like John Woodworth, I'm using 3D tracking in place the "focus and recompose" that I did with BBAF and it's likely more accurate. I have yet to program 3D to the AF-ON button but plan to try it next. For now, AF-ON is set to AF/AE lock. and Fn3 is set to 3D.
 
My only argument with absolute statements like this is they seem to focus on birds, primarily BIF which can test a cameras and lenses ability to keep a subject in focus, but there are many other forms of wildlife and different situations. As an example, I shoot a lot of black bear which tend to be in shaded forest cover, lack contrast on the face/eyes, and quite often have blades of grass, twigs, or branches nearby, and require higher ISO. This can also be tricky for AF systems in a different way even though the bear tends to move slow. What works best for BIF might not work best here. Steve Matthies mentioned the bison in the snow was better handled by the Z9. Maybe you or @arbitrage have tested on other wildlife like black bear with all cameras and are taking it into consideration. As black bear are in hibernation I haven’t been able to and haven’t seen any comparisons. I have seen the Z9 detect the eyes of fish, lizards, birds, raccoons, squirrels, and birds, as well as the bodies of dolphins. I’m sure the best cameras do well in most of these situations, but not seeing comparisons. If you have tested, or even better compared the top cameras with other subjects, please share your findings as I am not a birder and am curious. If not, I‘d appreciate it if you could add “best for birds” to the comment. I’m not trying to disrespectful, just not into birds as much as most others here.

I agree on the BIF standard. It seems like the only aspect people care about - but to be fair, it is a good way to test an AF system. Most of my Z testing will use BIF simply because I think the camera can track mammals just fine - at least from what I've seen so far :) I only wish I had a few more mammals around at the moment to test.

The trick with comparing two cameras ability to find subjects though is that you have to us both at the same relative time for the same subject. Every circumstance is different. There are times I "feel" like my a1 is better with finding eyes and times I "feel" like the Z9 might have an edge. However, you'd have to have both cameras in-hand to really compare (and I will try to make that happen when the opportunities present themselves, but even then it's a very small sample size).
 
I agree on the BIF standard. It seems like the only aspect people care about - but to be fair, it is a good way to test an AF system. Most of my Z testing will use BIF simply because I think the camera can track mammals just fine - at least from what I've seen so far :) I only wish I had a few more mammals around at the moment to test.

The trick with comparing two cameras ability to find subjects though is that you have to us both at the same relative time for the same subject. Every circumstance is different. There are times I "feel" like my a1 is better with finding eyes and times I "feel" like the Z9 might have an edge. However, you'd have to have both cameras in-hand to really compare (and I will try to make that happen when the opportunities present themselves, but even then it's a very small sample size).
I agree with your points and look forward to your review as you take many things into consideration. I’m glad to hear you’re finding it to work well with mammals as that is where my interest is. There are a few locations near me that have a few other mammals (bobcats, bison, horses, bear) that I’m hoping to make it to soon, but seeing them is hit or miss. In the meantime, I’m trying to take advantage of the the Florida birding which seems to be having an off year.
 
While I care about BIF, a great way to test the AF on a camera, I'd like to read more about the non-subject detect modes like Dynamic AF S,M and L modes which by the way, Nikon recommends in their sports set-up manual for certain sports like soccer (Dynamic area S or M ) as an example. In testing these, I have used the S and it's definitely a go-to mode for me if the subjects are distant and I've programmed the Fn1 button for this mode.
 
I agree with your points and look forward to your review as you take many things into consideration. I’m glad to hear you’re finding it to work well with mammals as that is where my interest is. There are a few locations near me that have a few other mammals (bobcats, bison, horses, bear) that I’m hoping to make it to soon, but seeing them is hit or miss. In the meantime, I’m trying to take advantage of the the Florida birding which seems to be having an off year.

My mammal experience with it is limited though, just seems good so far. Also, with eye detection on ANY camera it can be hit or miss - even with the same species. It depends on the distance, light, angle of the face, and even if the animal is squinting (the Z9 seems pretty good at squinting so far though). I've had times with the a1 where it would easily pick up the eye on a certain species, only to find eye detection worthless the next time I encountered that same species due to the conditions. I never depend on eye AF - I always approach the animal with what should be an appropriate AF area and if I see the camera is easily recognizing the eye, then I will take advantage of eye detection.

Bummer to hear about FL - I'm kinda planning to go down there for a few weeks for some testing. Most want to know how it is with BIF, so that's were I'm going to put a lot of emphasis in my tests.
 
While I care about BIF, a great way to test the AF on a camera, I'd like to read more about the non-subject detect modes like Dynamic AF S,M and L modes which by the way, Nikon recommends in their sports set-up manual for certain sports like soccer (Dynamic area S or M ) as an example. In testing these, I have used the S and it's definitely a go-to mode for me if the subjects are distant and I've programmed the Fn1 button for this mode.
I'm going to mess with them a bit, but I feel like they are more of a legacy AF area now. They essentially do what 3D does, only in a smaller area and without showing you what AF point is in use.
 
While I care about BIF, a great way to test the AF on a camera, I'd like to read more about the non-subject detect modes like Dynamic AF S,M and L modes which by the way, Nikon recommends in their sports set-up manual for certain sports like soccer (Dynamic area S or M ) as an example. In testing these, I have used the S and it's definitely a go-to mode for me if the subjects are distant and I've programmed the Fn1 button for this mode.
Yeah I was down there for a week two weeks ago shooting. I did get some good shots in FL but I really had to work for them. I was a bit shocked how little was there but still pulled out some good shots. Now having the time to go through them all is the current challenge.

@Steve the Ospreys are really becoming active at Sebastian inlet. I have heard just a few weeks ago they started becoming more active. At one point in the morning I had 13 overhead looking for their next meal.
 
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