Keep the Canon 1Dx Mk iii or Nikon D6? (or, adding a DSLR supertelephoto for BIF)

[carbon]

So here’s the dilemma: I realize that mirrorless is the future. I can see and have read about how many BIF shooters are moving to the Sony A1 (Mark Smith, Arthur Morris, Ari Hazeghi, etc) and I’m sure some of them are landing in Nikon/Canon land.

I have also briefly rented the A1 and can see it’s potential.

This thread isn’t about that.*

MAIN QUESTION
So, for people with experience with both a D6 and 1Dx iii, which one would you go with for BIF? It’d be nice to get to at least 800mm.

I do own a 1Dx iii + 300 2.8 ii + 1.4x iii and a D6 + 70-200 FL. I’m stupid that way.

You can stop right here and give advice (if you want). Below is a bunch of other thoughts that probably confuse the issue. Skip that stuff unless you like delving into the weeds.

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Been shooting mainly with the Canon setup (300 2.8 ii + 1.4x iii) at 420mm. It’s pretty good. Could get the 2x iii canon which would give me a 600mm f5.6. And I’ve heard that, unlike Nikon, Canon’s 2x iii extender is very very good. Tried one in the camera shop with my 300mm 2.8 ii and came away impressed.

But that’s only 600mm, and it sure seems like lots of birders wind up at 840mm. I shot the Sony rental 200-600 and 600mm was a lot less mag than I had thought. (They didn’t have a 600 f4 to test)

I’d sell the 300mm if I buy a big tele.

I have read that people like Ari left Canon’s 1dx Mark ii for Nikon D500/D5 because of improved AF performance (“slower, but more stable AF” was the quote), but that happened before the Mark III 1dx and before the D6.

I’ve never used the D6 with anything longer than a 200mm.

The AF BIF performance is paramount.

I could rent a big lens from each manufacturer for testing and that’s what I’d do if I was a kick-ass BIF shooter. But I’m not and thus I’m asking you guys/gals. My BIF skills are not at the level in which I can easily compare the two AF systems.

===========================

Here are something other things I’m considering. Feel free to skip. Focus on the main question above, but keep these issues in mind…I am probably wrong about some of them. But maybe this list will help someone else who has other priorities.

Pros Canon:

• 2.0x teleconverter performance is great
  • 400mm f4 DO II is pretty light for handholding, with 2x = 800mm f8
  • 400mm 2.8 + 2x = 800 5.6, so I could have a great sports and BIF lens
  • Potential for an occasional 1200mm f8 with the 600mm
• Big teles are very light
• Can lower release lag to 29ms (vs ~55ms), which significantly improves blackout. But does it have AF accuracy impacts?
• 16fps
• Canon will service non-USA lenses; lessens the anxiety of finding a lens
• big teles are holding their value better
• Able to assign controls better so I can use/switch more settings with just the right hand. For example, playback in the field is easier, can delete with one hand, easy to quickly change drive speed one-handed. Three savable (and lockable) custom banks. Not a massive plus, but it’s there.
• Maybe better video? But I’m not a video guy (yet, anyway)
• When deleting in camera, easy to delete batches
• Lots more gear Made in Japan
• Customer service is flat out stellar (first hand), mere mortals can join CPS

Cons Canon:

• No great hi-rez body: 5D IV not up to snuff (D850)
• AF patterns less flexible
• Potential: less good BIF AF performance?
• Lighting the control LCDs/buttons is a little inconvenient and one cannot force them on all of the time (not a huge deal, but I have crap eyes)
• When deleting in camera, the system will not remember your reviewing direction (after deleting, always moves to the newer pic even if you are going from newest to oldest)

Pros Nikon:

• maybe more sticky/stable AF? But can’t find a test. Did the 1dx iii close the gap?
• Seems to have lower high ISO noise than the 1dx iii, but I’m no expert
• Seems to focus a bit better in very low light levels where the 1dx iii will give up
• A bit quieter shutter
• Best hi-rez body option (D850), and a great DX option too (D500)
• I find the D6 body nice to use when it’s dark out (lighted displays and the ability to force them to be always on)
• can pick up a 600mm cheaper than a Canon
• able to customize shape of AF zones (but is this an actual advantage?)
• 500mm PF is light for handholding, works ok with 1.4x = 700 f8 but doesn’t work great with 2x
• When deleting in camera, the system DOES remember your reviewing direction
• I have a big soft spot for Nikon

Cons Nikon:

• Big teles are quite a bit heavier
• 2x teleconverter performance is iffy (maybe?), might have to buy a number of units to test? Arthur Morris pans Nikon TCs.
• the whole “is it USA” kerfuffle re: repair
• Slightly slower fps at 14fps (but in actual use it might be a wash)
• When deleting in camera, no good way that I’ve found to delete batches
• Forced to use two hands for playback zoom, playback delete, and switching AF or drive speed (unless using a recall button…I think? But just one recall bank). Not the end of the world.
• Photo/Custom banks not lockable (hasn’t been a big deal)
• heard weird reports of poor repairs
• Many cheaper lenses/bodies (even expensive lenses) are made in China or Thailand
• cannot join NPS unless an actual pro
• customer service is quite poor (first hand)

To consider:

• Pro bodied Nikon DSLRs and big F-mount teles have worse resale than Canon equivalents, but cheaper to buy used than Canon. Maybe Nikon price has less distance to fall as people switch to mirrorless?

*More details: I am not sure I want to move to mirrorless for a number of reasons, but a chief reason is finances. My older mac laptop has the Adobe suite on it (not the infinite rental version). I cannot upgrade the OS if I want to keep this non-rental Adobe suite. It’s High Sierra 10.13.6.

Anyway, I cannot open Sony .ARW files in the version of Camera Raw that I have. Cannot update that either. And the sheer amount of frames the A1 puts out (and the mp of each frame) totally chokes my computer. Cannot install Capture One.

So even if I did upgrade to the A1, I’d have to upgrade the whole computer chain. I’d be getting into the $25,000 area with camera, a 600mm f4, and a new laptop.

 

[carbon]

Anyone with any suggestion on which camera they’d keep and which to send down the river?

 

[grossidm]

I've only used the D6 (not the Canon). All I can say is that for AF acquisition, the D6 is far and beyond the best camera I've ever used. Better than the Z9. I still own and use the D6.

 

[BlackRockArt]

Anyone with any suggestion on which camera they’d keep and which to send down the river?

With Sony ARW files, you can also use Affinity Photo, Capture One Express (highly recommended) to play around with.

Also, Sony has it's own RAW converter.


Oliver

 

[carbon]

With Sony ARW files, you can also use Affinity Photo, Capture One Express (highly recommended) to play around with.

Also, Sony has it's own RAW converter.


Oliver

In the future I will keep those apps in mind. I do know Sony’s converter won’t install on MacOS 10.13.6 High Sierra.

 

[carbon]

I've only used the D6 (not the Canon). All I can say is that for AF acquisition, the D6 is far and beyond the best camera I've ever used. Better than the Z9. I still own and use the D6.

Thanks for the feedback. I have heard similar things over at fredmiranda from the sports photo people.

 

[John Navitsky]

so, instead of answering your question, here’s a different take. pick the GLASS for the MIRRORLESS system you like best, sell the other brand and buy the mirrorless flagship in the brand you want.

eg, you decide you need some nikon 800 pf in your life, so sell the canon gear, buy a z9, adapter and some glass. or the other way around.

 

[carbon]

so, instead of answering your question, here’s a different take. pick the GLASS for the MIRRORLESS system you like best, sell the other brand and buy the mirrorless flagship in the brand you want.

eg, you decide you need some nikon 800 pf in your life, so sell the canon gear, buy a z9, adapter and some glass. or the other way around.

Good advice! I think Nikon is ahead here with their 400TC and 600TC.

BUT if you put a gun to my head and I had to go mirrorless today, I’d go Sony! Dang. Sorta messes that plan up.

I think the rise of mirrorless is why one doesn’t find lots of articles about the D6 vs 1Dx iii. Most people just skipped over the last gen DSLRs.

 

[John Navitsky]

BUT if you put a gun to my head and I had to go mirrorless today, I’d go Sony! Dang. Sorta messes that plan up.

well, nothing wrong with that as long as you're willing to replace all your gear. in reality, you may end up doing that anyways.

one of the rationalizations with the z9 for me was i could continue to use my f-mount glass. but... the new glass is so good. i ended up replacing all my glass anyways

I think the rise of mirrorless is why one doesn’t find lots of articles about the D6 vs 1Dx iii. Most people just skipped over the last gen DSLRs.

yes, the 1dxiii and d6 are incredible cameras, and didn't get their due because it was clear they were the last of the pro dslr bodies and everyone's focus was on the new mirrorless pro bodies.

i think if you take tracking and subject detection out of the equation those DSLRs probably have better AF than the mirrorless pro bodies. that said, tracking and subject detection are real benefits and work together to give you more over-all capability.

 

[arbitrage]

I went as far as 1DXII and D500/D850 before jumping into MILCs for BIF (A9, A9II, R5, Z9, A1). Based on that I would choose D6 over 1DXIII for BIF. Even the "lowly" D500 bested the 1DXII for BIF and from my brief time borrowing a 1DXIII from a friend I didn't see any major improvements that would make me believe it is anywhere close to what a D6 can do.

 

[EricBowles]

Tough call. It sounds like your real question is how to consolidate systems so you can get the most reach and performance out of your gear. While the current question is short term, you should consider intermediate and long term as well.

I think you have to narrow it to one system. You'll never be able to carry the cost of having two good systems unless you have a big budget. The D6 and 70-200 FL are outstanding, and the lens will work well into the future.

You have a choice on lenses - a 600 f/4 with the 1.4 TC will give you 840mm f/5.6 equivalent but it requires a tripod and gimbal head. The lens and TC could cost around $4200 is you skip the FL version of the lens and take the prior version. I have a source for the lens. Or you can get a 500mm PF and 1.4 TC for a 700mm equivalent at f/8 at a cost of around $2700-2800. All this gives you a first rate DSLR system, and potentially the savings to pick up a Z mirrorless camera and FTZ adapter at your convenience.

If you want, you could switch to the Nikon Z mirrorless system, but now you are talking about a major system change and a significant expense. The limited options on used lenses means you will have to use F-mount lenses or buy new Z lenses. The Z gear is outstanding and will future proof you a bit, but there is a cost you could defer or plan for over time.

Now if your heart is set on a Z8 in spite of the added cost, you can increase your budget and have everything you want/need.

 

[fcotterill]

Only have experience of Nikon, and I rely on the D6 and Z9 as complementary cameras, venerable D850 is my backup, 3rd camera. This is with a mixed F/Z system.

As summarized previously (links below), the D6 has been regularly / widely under appreciated. Nikon marketing fumbled at explicating its less obvious albeit powerful features. It's the best DSLR ever made IME, even compared to the D5 (I traded in my trusty D5 for the D6 nearly a year ago.) T

One needs to fully stress out the pattern recognition aka Deep-learning that undergirds the 3D Tracking, AutoAF and Group AF modes, in order to appreciate its robustness. I keep Eye and Face detection turned On in all 3 of these modes, which prove surprisingly scope of the D6 at 'recognizing' animals.

The Custom Area Group mode is my AF mainstay, and the D6 is the one and only DSLR that I use with its 3D tracking Mode. The AF received a silent and significant boost in a firmware update mid 2020 but injection of this tech seems to have been overlooked. It appears Nikon merged key features in the Custom Area modes etc of the D6 into firmware 1.20 in the Z9 a year ago. It's been a surprise to discover intriguing overlaps in the AF of these 2 flagships, when photographing small warblers in reedbeds and similar challenging subjects.

I use my D6 mainly with the 180-400 TC, 500 PF, 800 f5.6E and 70-200 f2.8E FL, and I plan to keep working these hard going forward.... thes threads,links cover context and reasons and more:

Nikon D6 - what are your thoughts on this camera ?

Thanks for your suggestion. Not rebutting but mention I have never owned a D600 and I bought the D850 twice, and simply disliked it. Users here state that the D6 grabs focus quicker than the D5 (which is really fast and holds solid) and the focus is what Nikon boasts the most about regarding the...

bcgforums.com

Forced to slum it with the D6.

Same way I shot my D5/D850.....and now my Z9! Nice. Yup, always find myself defaulting to single point; use it even to try to coax 3D into choosing where to stick (doesn't work, but I still try :)).

bcgforums.com

D6 vs D5

So, what's the difference in the AF between the D5 and D6? Is the improvement obvious? What changed? How does it affect your shooting? How did af on the D5 differ from the D850/D500? I ask because the prices of used D5s are becoming less stratospheric and more thinkable :)

bcgforums.com

Nikon z9 v Nikon D6

I am currently on the waiting list for a Z9 My current thoughts are to trade my D500 and D6 for the Z9 and keep my D850 I mainly shoot wildlife and I want the Z9 for fast moving action shots e.g. small birds in flight. Will I find any benefits in focus acquisition when comparing the Z9 with...

bcgforums.com

Re: Z9 vs D850 / D5 and D6: Nikon Z Mirrorless Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

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