Master Nikon AF Handoffs on Z8, Z9, and Z6iii

[mathjak107]

It can get confusing.

I use the term AF Override because that's what it's really doing. You have your normal AF area set, and when you press a programmed button, it overrides to a different AF area - but only as long as you press. When you release the button, the camera reverts back to the normal AF area it was using prior to the press. If you could tap a button and have the camera switch to the program AF area, then it's would be switching, but as it stands, when you release the button it goes back to the current normal AF area - I don't know how to describe that beyond on override

The real trick comes in because a handoff is a subset of AF override. In both an override and handoff, you are temporarily changing AF areas; but with an handoff you are picking up at the exact AF area the camera was just using. That's not the case with overrides. As I mentioned in the video, all AF handoffs include an AF override, but not all AF overrides include a handoff

i assume that when doing a hand off to auto af with the fn1 button that you must hold in back button focus too for it to work if you are set up for back button focus . is this correct

 

[Cameron T]

i assume that when doing a hand off to auto af with the fn1 button that you must hold in back button focus too for it to work if you are set up for back button focus . is this correct

Yes. If you rely only the rear af on button to engage af, that button must be held at all times.

 

[Ralph]

i assume that when doing a hand off to auto af with the fn1 button that you must hold in back button focus too for it to work if you are set up for back button focus . is this correct

No. According to previous post above, you have two options. You can use BBF to focus while holding fn1 or you can set the fn1 button to focus as well as switch to Auto and release the BBF.

 

[mathjak107]

No. According to previous post above, you have two options. You can use BBF to focus while holding fn1 or you can set the fn1 button to focus as well as switch to Auto and release the BBF.

interesting if that’s the case. let me look for that option in the controls set up

 

[Steve]

i assume that when doing a hand off to auto af with the fn1 button that you must hold in back button focus too for it to work if you are set up for back button focus . is this correct

Yes Probably.

It depends on how you have the override set - if it's just the AF Area, yes, keep pressing. If it's the AF Area and AF On, then once you press the Fn1 button, you can then release the AF-On button (make sure there's no interruption in AF - get Fn1 pressed and active and then release AF-On).

 

[mathjak107]

interesting if that’s the case. let me look for that option in the controls set up

found the setting to have fn1 do both

 

[Tom Reynolds]

I do not have a problem with AF, subject ID or sharpness on the OM-1 mk2 as long as I am using a relatively high shutter speed.

I admit that I judge based on the resultant photo and don't pay much attention to "stability" or "locked on" during the process as you do so I can't comment on that aspect of the camera.

I do not do video very often, but my understanding is that the Om-1's video AF is not that great.

 

[Anjin San]

Yes

I would have thought that you needed to keep pressing BBF until the handoff happened and then the rear button doesn’t matter since Fn1 or whatever is set to AF area and AF On at that point. I wonder what happens if ypu have it set that way and press both buttons..I’m guessing F1 wins but will have to try tomorrow pre wine.

 

[Steve]

I would have thought that you needed to keep pressing BBF until the handoff happened and then the rear button doesn’t matter since Fn1 or whatever is set to AF area and AF On at that point. I wonder what happens if ypu have it set that way and press both buttons..I’m guessing F1 wins but will have to try tomorrow pre wine.

Yeah, that's it. But you wouldn't press the Fn1 button unless the camera was on-target, so no waiting for it to happen after you press Fn1. It's instant.

 

[Anjin San]

Yeah, that's it. But you wouldn't press the Fn1 button unless the camera was on-target, so no waiting for it to happen after you press Fn1. It's instant.

What I figured.

 

[raptor photo]

Yes

Do you think it is a good idea to have the camera set to Wide AF with Subject detection, with Shutter AF on, then have the BBF button be the 3D or Auto Area AF button?

 

[flashpixx]

FWIW, and I know I'm doing it wrong according to the video, but it works for me.

1. AF button programmed to Wide Area, subject deterction = bird.
2. Z9 (and Z8) set to 3D.
3. Press AF button to find and lock focus on eye.
4. Let go AF button, camera goes into 3D
5. Shoot

Been doing this for a while now, and to my memory have not had the Z9 or Z8 lose focus lock on the eye when moving to 3D.

I do it as I prefer not to have to hold a button down when half press/releasing the shutter. In some cases when trying to retain focus on a small bird in branches and leaves I will have to hold the AF button.

 

[Steve]

Do you think it is a good idea to have the camera set to Wide AF with Subject detection, with Shutter AF on, then have the BBF button be the 3D or Auto Area AF button?

Yup - if I shot shutter release AF, I'd use the AF on button as my primary AF override.

 

[Steve]

FWIW, and I know I'm doing it wrong according to the video, but it works for me.

1. AF button programmed to Wide Area, subject deterction = bird.
2. Z9 (and Z8) set to 3D.
3. Press AF button to find and lock focus on eye.
4. Let go AF button, camera goes into 3D
5. Shoot

Been doing this for a while now, and to my memory have not had the Z9 or Z8 lose focus lock on the eye when moving to 3D.

I do it as I prefer not to have to hold a button down when half press/releasing the shutter. In some cases when trying to retain focus on a small bird in branches and leaves I will have to hold the AF button.

Technically, it's not a handoff, it's just using an AF override. For a handoff, again technically, the camera has to be actively using the AF point and then passing to the override. That's not to say what you're doing it wrong in any way though.

What's happening is that Subject Detection will put a little white subject recognition box around anything it thinks is a subject when a compatible AF area is selected and then, if you activate AF, it'll use that box as a starting point for Subject Detection. When you focus with Wide and the camera identifies the subject, then release AF, Subject Detection still keeps track of the subject if it can with that white box. As long as it doesn't lose the target, when you press any override with a compatible AF area compatible with Subject Detection, it'll pick up from that white box. I mean, it's similar to a handoff, but not technically one - but again, that doesn't mean it doesn't work As I mentioned in the video, people sometimes get really obsessed with making sure they are doing what's technically a handoff when it's not usually necessary.

PS - also, I'm not trying to be overly pedantic here, I promise. I just want to differentiate between what's technically a handoff vs an override. It's overly complex for sure, but it is what Nikon made it.

 

[tomcat]

Great video which I think will help a lot of users who are trying to use handoff as a means to achieve better results. My biggest confounding variable when shooting action is not handoff per se, but AF persistence or "stickiness". Handing off to 3D mode has significant drawbacks and the AF mode, whether one uses AA or Wide (S/L/Custom) seems to make little difference in the AF system maintaining focus. Adjusting a3 - blocked shot response doesn't appear to sufficiently address the predictive algorithm or recognition issues either. Overall, the AF system works extremely well for most situations, though my hope is the Nikon engineers can continue to work on tackling the more challenging situations.

In this video, we’re diving deep into AF Handoffs with the Nikon Z8, Z9, and Z6iii—and this concept will likely apply to future Nikon mirrorless models too. There's a ton of confusion out there between normal AF overrides and AF overrides that include a handoff and this video will clear the waters. (Warning: Many people think they know this technique and have it 100% WRONG - watch to make sure you have it RIGHT!)

If you shoot the Z8, Z9, or Z6iii, this video is absolutely critical to your AF success! (And it might explain some AF failures too!)

Sigh,,,long sigh......I miss those days when we just manually focused on a person and then "zone focused or pre-focused" on an area waiting for the subject to run into it. We used a small aperture for sufficient dof to cover the focus point. Has anyone noticed that trying to manually focus today's lenses is darn near impossible because the lens's focus ring has such a short throw? Sigh, again...

 

[Cameron T]

Nobody made you upgrade your gear. There's reasons why everyone stopped bothering with manual focus for the most part

 

[Steve]

Sigh,,,long sigh......I miss those days when we just manually focused on a person and then "zone focused or pre-focused" on an area waiting for the subject to run into it. We used a small aperture for sufficient dof to cover the focus point. Has anyone noticed that trying to manually focus today's lenses is darn near impossible because the lens's focus ring has such a short throw? Sigh, again...

I used to shoot in those days and I'm happy to learn the new tech as it significantly elevates what I can do with a camera. BIF used to be a rarefied skill, thanks to technology, pretty much anyone can make it happen with a little practice. Photos now are also so much sharper and hold so much more detail - not to mention how much easier it is to shoot in lower light. Nope, I don't want to go back

As a side note, there's an option on most Nikon mirrorless cameras to change the throw of the focus ring on the lens. It's under the Custom Setting Menu > Controls > Focus Ring Rotation Range. I use non linear so the slower I turn the lens, the greater the rotation range.

 

[macwalter]

Tries to watch the video but it says I must sign in even though I’m already signed in then it disappeared.

 

[EliotN]

Technically, it's not a handoff, it's just using an AF override. For a handoff, again technically, the camera has to be actively using the AF point and then passing to the override. That's not to say what you're doing it wrong in any way though.

What's happening is that Subject Detection will put a little white subject recognition box around anything it thinks is a subject when a compatible AF area is selected and then, if you activate AF, it'll use that box as a starting point for Subject Detection. When you focus with Wide and the camera identifies the subject, then release AF, Subject Detection still keeps track of the subject if it can with that white box. As long as it doesn't lose the target, when you press any override with a compatible AF area compatible with Subject Detection, it'll pick up from that white box. I mean, it's similar to a handoff, but not technically one - but again, that doesn't mean it doesn't work As I mentioned in the video, people sometimes get really obsessed with making sure they are doing what's technically a handoff when it's not usually necessary.

PS - also, I'm not trying to be overly pedantic here, I promise. I just want to differentiate between what's technically a handoff vs an override. It's overly complex for sure, but it is what Nikon made it.

Steve,

What happens if one cycles through the autofocus modes rather than using a button? Is there still a handoff if focus is active during cycling but not if it is not? For example, using back button focus and the video button to cycle will I get handoff if the back button focus is pressed while cycling but not otherwise?

Why do you recommend handoff to auto rather than 3D? Is that only for birds in flight rather than one there is a more cluttered back ground?

Thanks,

Eliot

 

[Steve]

Tries to watch the video but it says I must sign in even though I’m already signed in then it disappeared.

That's a YT thing. They been doing that with embedded videos. Click here: YouTube link

 

[Steve]

Steve,

What happens if one cycles through the autofocus modes rather than using a button? Is there still a handoff if focus is active during cycling but not if it is not? For example, using back button focus and the video button to cycle will I get handoff if the back button focus is pressed while cycling but not otherwise?

Why do you recommend handoff to auto rather than 3D? Is that only for birds in flight rather than one there is a more cluttered back ground?

Thanks,

Eliot

You're just changing AF areas. Subject Detection might stick keep finding the subject each time you hit an AF area that's compatible, but it's not a handoff.

I talk about it more in the book, but basically I find that if I'm in Auto and the Subject Detection loses the target, the larger Auto area has a better chance of locking back on. When tracking, they're the same as far as I can tell.

 

[mrpicasso]

While I agree about the challenges of long necked birds, as I indicated, the issue doesn’t appear to be with SD/tracking as indicated by the white box. It is only when AF is initiated with the BBF and green box that the issues start. One can watch the little white box follow the bird’s eye around in the frame and then initiating BBF usually turns the white box green on the eye. Then the green box starts to oscillate between the eye and body. it were only limited to long necked birds, I would concede, but the same thing happens when I shoot goldfinches or other subjects. It’s so bad with goldfinches that spot or C1. (1x1) are the only effective way I’ve been able to capture them. Handing off to 3D or another AF mode if the 1x1 C1 is used is not effective as the af ends up on the body.

When BBAF is pressed, I have seen the white box focus point jump to something different than the eye which the white box was tracking on any type of bird. So I want to confirm my understanding that the lens only acquires a focus when BBAF is pressed and the green box shows where that focus was obtained. If I just press the shutter release (which is only set to release and not programmed to also focus) and I don't press BBAF as the white box is following the eye, will the eye the white box is tracking be in focus, or does BBAF need to pressed to engage the focus as the shutter is released?

 

[Cameron T]

When BBAF is pressed, I have seen the white box focus point jump to something different than the eye which the white box was tracking on any type of bird. So I want to confirm my understanding that the lens only acquires a focus when BBAF is pressed and the green box shows where that focus was obtained. If I just press the shutter release (which is only set to release and not programmed to also focus) and I don't press BBAF as the white box is following the eye, will the eye the white box is tracking be in focus, or does BBAF need to pressed to engage the focus as the shutter is released?

If you're not hitting the button set to enable it to focus, it's not focusing. I guess I'm confused about where you're confused here.

The tracking is just telling you it's finding the eye/face/whatever, but isn't actively focusing.

 

[ajrmd]

When BBAF is pressed, I have seen the white box focus point jump to something different than the eye which the white box was tracking on any type of bird. So I want to confirm my understanding that the lens only acquires a focus when BBAF is pressed and the green box shows where that focus was obtained. If I just press the shutter release (which is only set to release and not programmed to also focus) and I don't press BBAF as the white box is following the eye, will the eye the white box is tracking be in focus, or does BBAF need to pressed to engage the focus as the shutter is released?

There’s no real confusion, it’s a disconnect I’ve been speaking about for a while. SD and tracking are correctly identifying and following the subject and as soon as AF is initiated, it frequently overrides SD/tracking and moves the af point somewhere else. I’m convinced that this is related to some of the confounding af difficulties we’re reporting. Also the inability to adjust the af sensitivity and stickiness is an equally vexing issue.

 

[macwalter]

I got it to work by signing out then back in. It was weird as I could post statements but not view the video. I use fn1 for auto area but I also enable AF on so I don’t have to hold two buttons. I think I’m getting pretty good hand offs assuming the lock from AF large has a good lock. I often just leave it there if that’s the case. Correct me if I’m wrong in that you can’t get a true handoff with the AF on button assigned as well.