Need help with deciding on a new external desktop drive

[Patrick M]

Wow. You’re all way over thinking this. Earlier I said I’m a synology fan. Set up is basically switching it on and creating your account. Here I am, on my 3rd disk station, and it’s so very very very easy. I can access it from anywhere in the world if I can access the internet.
if I need to increase disc space… my 14Tb is 50% , I just swap out one of the 4 hdd for a bigger one.
don’t make this more difficult than you need to. Real down what it is you really need. Me? Storage and to protect my data.

 

[AlanB313]

Wow. You’re all way over thinking this. Earlier I said I’m a synology fan. Set up is basically switching it on and creating your account. Here I am, on my 3rd disk station, and it’s so very very very easy. I can access it from anywhere in the world if I can access the internet.
if I need to increase disc space… my 14Tb is 50% , I just swap out one of the 4 hdd for a bigger one.
don’t make this more difficult than you need to. Real down what it is you really need. Me? Storage and to protect my data.

I'm limited in experience but I echo this. I have a 5 bay synology nas with 5@ 4tb drives using raid 6. It's almost silent. I backup to a 8tb hdd for now.

I can switch to much larger drives for later higher capacity.

We'll see if I need to upgrade anything for speed. Currently my older computer is the bottleneck. It's slow. I'm pretty sure once I get a modern laptop I will also add a NVME card to the enclosure for more speed. It has 2 slots. I can upgrade the ram. I could also add a 10gbe rj45 module. So it can grow with my needs.

I'm a PC user but my brother has a similar setup with Mac, just more powerful.

I forgot to add that this freed up my local drive for active work, which was a goal until I upgrade my computer.

 

[Patrick M]

I'm limited in experience but I echo this. I have a 5 bay synology nas with 5@ 4tb drives using raid 6. It's almost silent. I backup to a 8tb hdd for now.

I can switch to much larger drives for later higher capacity.

We'll see if I need to upgrade anything for speed. Currently my older computer is the bottleneck. It's slow. I'm pretty sure once I get a modern laptop I will also add a NVME card to the enclosure for more speed. It has 2 slots. I can upgrade the ram. I could also add a 10gbe rj45 module. So it can grow with my needs.

I'm a PC user but my brother has a similar setup with Mac, just more powerful.

I forgot to add that this freed up my local drive for active work, which was a goal until I upgrade my computer.

one of my older drives serves as backup. It took a few minutes to set it up, but it’s fully automatic. I have a Mac and a PC , both with 10Gbps Ethernet ports. They also both have internal 3Tb drives, plenty for what little editing I do. I can access my pc using a free ms app on my mac which opens a window to the pc exactly as if I was on the pc. It’s brilliant.

 

[Activert]

Wow. You’re all way over thinking this. Earlier I said I’m a synology fan. Set up is basically switching it on and creating your account. Here I am, on my 3rd disk station, and it’s so very very very easy. I can access it from anywhere in the world if I can access the internet.
if I need to increase disc space… my 14Tb is 50% , I just swap out one of the 4 hdd for a bigger one.
don’t make this more difficult than you need to. Real down what it is you really need. Me? Storage and to protect my data.

Patrick, can you put different size HHD in the same station or all the drive should be the same?

 

[Anjin San]

Patrick, can you put different size HHD in the same station or all the drive should be the same?

You can replace a smaller drive with a larger one…and the RAID will rebuild itself. Originally, if you replaced a 4TB with 8 for instance…it only used 4TB so no capacity increase happened. Later on IIRC…the software used the whole drive and gave you some additional capacity but not as much as one would think…but if you sequentially replaced all the drives with larger ones and let the rebuild happen after each swap you end up with the full larger capacity. And Patrick is right…there is zippo wrong with using a NAS as opposed to hanging a RAID off your computer. The whole point is that the NAS is more of a toaster appliance and costs more for the same amount of storage and direct attached is cheaper and perhaps more configurable depending on vendor. Neither provides any capabilities the other doesn’t or can’t provide pretty simply…and unless you invest in 20GB Ethernet and have a computer that does 10GB (both of which increase cost) direct attached Thunderbolt storage will be faster than storage across the network…and neither should really be used as your primary LR drive…an SSD is much faster for that. The choice is really whether one wants the cheaper solution or the more expensive appliance solution…and there is no wrong answer…it depends on one’s computer comfort and budget but either works just fine.

 

[wotan1]

You can replace a smaller drive with a larger one…and the RAID will rebuild itself. Originally, if you replaced a 4TB with 8 for instance…it only used 4TB so no capacity increase happened. Later on IIRC…the software used the whole drive and gave you some additional capacity but not as much as one would think…but if you sequentially replaced all the drives with larger ones and let the rebuild happen after each swap you end up with the full larger capacity. And Patrick is right…there is zippo wrong with using a NAS as opposed to hanging a RAID off your computer. The whole point is that the NAS is more of a toaster appliance and costs more for the same amount of storage and direct attached is cheaper and perhaps more configurable depending on vendor. Neither provides any capabilities the other doesn’t or can’t provide pretty simply…and unless you invest in 20GB Ethernet and have a computer that does 10GB (both of which increase cost) direct attached Thunderbolt storage will be faster than storage across the network…and neither should really be used as your primary LR drive…an SSD is much faster for that. The choice is really whether one wants the cheaper solution or the more expensive appliance solution…and there is no wrong answer…it depends on one’s computer comfort and budget but either works just fine.

That is a great and accurate summary


thanks,
anjin
san

 

[Activert]

You can replace a smaller drive with a larger one…and the RAID will rebuild itself. Originally, if you replaced a 4TB with 8 for instance…it only used 4TB so no capacity increase happened. Later on IIRC…the software used the whole drive and gave you some additional capacity but not as much as one would think…but if you sequentially replaced all the drives with larger ones and let the rebuild happen after each swap you end up with the full larger capacity. And Patrick is right…there is zippo wrong with using a NAS as opposed to hanging a RAID off your computer. The whole point is that the NAS is more of a toaster appliance and costs more for the same amount of storage and direct attached is cheaper and perhaps more configurable depending on vendor. Neither provides any capabilities the other doesn’t or can’t provide pretty simply…and unless you invest in 20GB Ethernet and have a computer that does 10GB (both of which increase cost) direct attached Thunderbolt storage will be faster than storage across the network…and neither should really be used as your primary LR drive…an SSD is much faster for that. The choice is really whether one wants the cheaper solution or the more expensive appliance solution…and there is no wrong answer…it depends on one’s computer comfort and budget but either works just fine.

Thank you so much Anjin for your reply and all the explanation. It is very helpful
Lina

 

[Patrick M]

Patrick, can you put different size HHD in the same station or all the drive should be the same?

Yes, you can add drives of equal or larger, but not smaller capacity. They do not all have to be the same size. I do have four 4Tb drives, I’m planning to replace two with 8Tb soon which will be enough for the next few years, I hope!

 

[Anjin San]

That is a great and accurate summary


thanks,
anjin
san

If somebody with a Synology could report the actual truth on upgrading drive sizes in a more than 2 drive (and a 2 drive one as well if it’s different) Synology it would be a nice bit of knowledge. There ar some people for whom the appliance idea makes sense…and some for which the direct attached idea makes sense…and since I’ve no experience with the former a better understanding of whether upgrading capacity is easy or whether the harder backup, nuke, and start over process is necessary.

 

[Anjin San]

Yes, you can add drives of equal or larger, but not smaller capacity. They do not all have to be the same size. I do have four 4Tb drives, I’m planning to replace two with 8Tb soon which will be enough for the next few years, I hope!

Is there a reference in the manual or website that has some detail about this? I presume you have your 4 bay setup in RAID 5…and as I noted in the other reply I’m curious how the upgrade for capacity happens or whether a backup, upgrade, and restore is needed. As I said there…the appliance model makes sense for some and i can make better recommendations if I had more knowledge on Synology and I presume that Qnap and other NAS vendors would have similar capabilities…I know that Drobo did before they died. While I’m personally not all that interested in a NAS…more smarts means I can better answer queries. I took a Quick Look at the Synology site and there are upgrade paths for their more than home use models but nothing on the 2 and 4 bay DiskStations for home…and without a purchase I couldn’t find an easy way to ask support.

 

[jerrylwatson]

Replace Drives to Expand Storage Capacity | DSM - Synology Bilgi Merkezi

Synology Knowledge Center; sık sorulan soru yanıtlarını, sorun giderme adımlarını, yazılım eğitimlerini ve ihtiyaç duyabileceğiniz tüm teknik belgeleri de içeren kapsamlı bir destek sunar.

kb.synology.com

 

[Anjin San]

Replace Drives to Expand Storage Capacity | DSM - Synology Bilgi Merkezi

Synology Knowledge Center; sık sorulan soru yanıtlarını, sorun giderme adımlarını, yazılım eğitimlerini ve ihtiyaç duyabileceğiniz tüm teknik belgeleri de içeren kapsamlı bir destek sunar.

kb.synology.com

I had seen that page…but got there from a link on the more enterprise models so wasn’t sure it applied to the consumer models as I wasn’t sure they used the same control software version…my guess from reading it is that when you do the Repair step it only uses part of the new larger drive until the final repair after all drives are replaced when the increased capacity becomes available. Given what I know about RAID controllers and software…I would make sure I had adequate backups before doing the process though…and if I was going to upgrade I would plan on upgrading all of the drives.

 

[wotan1]

I would echo the importance of having a complete backup before messing with RAID equipment.

I recently switched my OWC raid from PC to Apple. It was a nightmarish process and very much risky.

 

[jerrylwatson]

I had seen that page…but got there from a link on the more enterprise models so wasn’t sure it applied to the consumer models as I wasn’t sure they used the same control software version…my guess from reading it is that when you do the Repair step it only uses part of the new larger drive until the final repair after all drives are replaced when the increased capacity becomes available. Given what I know about RAID controllers and software…I would make sure I had adequate backups before doing the process though…and if I was going to upgrade I would plan on upgrading all of the drives.

I started out with four 8tb drives giving me 24tb of storage using RAID 5. I use the NAS to backup all our computers and my images. My images are on a 8tb Samsung SSD in a quad thunderbolt 3 enclosure that also backs up my images to spinning disks. Hopefully I will not need to expand for quite a while. If I do need more, I will add another NAS enclosure to the current one as expansion.

 

[Patrick M]

Is there a reference in the manual or website that has some detail about this? I presume you have your 4 bay setup in RAID 5…and as I noted in the other reply I’m curious how the upgrade for capacity happens or whether a backup, upgrade, and restore is needed. As I said there…the appliance model makes sense for some and i can make better recommendations if I had more knowledge on Synology and I presume that Qnap and other NAS vendors would have similar capabilities…I know that Drobo did before they died. While I’m personally not all that interested in a NAS…more smarts means I can better answer queries. I took a Quick Look at the Synology site and there are upgrade paths for their more than home use models but nothing on the 2 and 4 bay DiskStations for home…and without a purchase I couldn’t find an easy way to ask support.

I use the basic set up as Synology recommend. So of my 4 4Tb drives, I have 12 Tb available and the rest is their backup. It’s in the manual. If a drive fails, al, I need do is replace it. It did happen a year ago, and the repair took a day.

 

[AlanB313]

I don't have a lot of experience but I'll try to look up what Anjin is asking about regarding later expansion. I have a 5 bay synology nas with 5@ 4tb drives using raid 6. My older brother had a drive go bad in his 8 bay synology nas and decided to upgrade all his drives to a larger capacity. I was lucky and got his older 4tb drives to start me off.

My understanding is that if I put an 8tb drive in one of the drive slots, using raid 6, that it will only use 4tb of that new drives size, if all the others are 4tb. That's OK with me, I plan to gradually replace the older drives with new ones and will choose 8tb for that. I still have a lot of capacity with my current sizing. But once all the drives are 8tb, it will double.

I'll ask how it went for my brother when he replaced all his drives and the procedure he used. I'm guessing he added them one by one until all new 8tb drives were in place and the 4tb drives withdrawn, rather than all at once. That would necessitate adding the data from his seperate external backup hdd. That way he still has 2 full copies of all his data during the change-out ( he also has cloud storage, however). There would be vulnerability if the rebuild only had a single copy of the data during the process.

It can take a while, but the process is automatic. Originally I set up my nas as a 4 drive, but added a 5th drive later. All I had to do was to put the drive in the slot and the software automatically configured the new cumulative nas, adding capacity overnight.

Once all the new larger drives are in place the software rebuilds the total capacity of the cumulative nas (I think). But I'll ask.

I hope this helps. My apologies to the OP if this is off topic from her original request, but I wasn't sure where else I should answer. Maybe we should start a new thread on NAS topics.
Thanks

 

[Viathelens]

I don't have a lot of experience but I'll try to look up what Anjin is asking about regarding later expansion. I have a 5 bay synology nas with 5@ 4tb drives using raid 6. My older brother had a drive go bad in his 8 bay synology nas and decided to upgrade all his drives to a larger capacity. I was lucky and got his older 4tb drives to start me off.

My understanding is that if I put an 8tb drive in one of the drive slots, using raid 6, that it will only use 4tb of that new drives size, if all the others are 4tb. That's OK with me, I plan to gradually replace the older drives with new ones and will choose 8tb for that. I still have a lot of capacity with my current sizing. But once all the drives are 8tb, it will double.

I'll ask how it went for my brother when he replaced all his drives and the procedure he used. I'm guessing he added them one by one until all new 8tb drives were in place and the 4tb drives withdrawn, rather than all at once. That would necessitate adding the data from his seperate external backup hdd. That way he still has 2 full copies of all his data during the change-out ( he also has cloud storage, however). There would be vulnerability if the rebuild only had a single copy of the data during the process.

It can take a while, but the process is automatic. Originally I set up my nas as a 4 drive, but added a 5th drive later. All I had to do was to put the drive in the slot and the software automatically configured the new cumulative nas, adding capacity overnight.

Once all the new larger drives are in place the software rebuilds the total capacity of the cumulative nas (I think). But I'll ask.

I hope this helps. My apologies to the OP if this is off topic from her original request, but I wasn't sure where else I should answer. Maybe we should start a new thread on NAS topics.
Thanks

I think that my thread has become somewhat that new thread you are talking about but I'm following all with interest, even if it does not help me. Obviously a lot of people had questions on storage somewhat similar to mine.

 

[AlanB313]

I think that my thread has become somewhat that new thread you are talking about but I'm following all with interest, even if it does not help me. Obviously a lot of people had questions on storage somewhat similar to mine.

Thanks for your patience. I'm actually also really interested in your original question about quality ssd and hdd large capacity external drives. I will need to replace my ancient 8tb hdd that I'm using as backup soon. It's old enough that I don't trust it.
Quality storage is an issue we all have....!

 

[Anjin San]

I don't have a lot of experience but I'll try to look up what Anjin is asking about regarding later expansion. I have a 5 bay synology nas with 5@ 4tb drives using raid 6. My older brother had a drive go bad in his 8 bay synology nas and decided to upgrade all his drives to a larger capacity. I was lucky and got his older 4tb drives to start me off.

My understanding is that if I put an 8tb drive in one of the drive slots, using raid 6, that it will only use 4tb of that new drives size, if all the others are 4tb. That's OK with me, I plan to gradually replace the older drives with new ones and will choose 8tb for that. I still have a lot of capacity with my current sizing. But once all the drives are 8tb, it will double.

I'll ask how it went for my brother when he replaced all his drives and the procedure he used. I'm guessing he added them one by one until all new 8tb drives were in place and the 4tb drives withdrawn, rather than all at once. That would necessitate adding the data from his seperate external backup hdd. That way he still has 2 full copies of all his data during the change-out ( he also has cloud storage, however). There would be vulnerability if the rebuild only had a single copy of the data during the process.

It can take a while, but the process is automatic. Originally I set up my nas as a 4 drive, but added a 5th drive later. All I had to do was to put the drive in the slot and the software automatically configured the new cumulative nas, adding capacity overnight.

Once all the new larger drives are in place the software rebuilds the total capacity of the cumulative nas (I think). But I'll ask.

I hope this helps. My apologies to the OP if this is off topic from her original request, but I wasn't sure where else I should answer. Maybe we should start a new thread on NAS topics.
Thanks

I found the RAID sizer on the Synology site and replacing a single drive with a larger one does not increase capacity…until you replace the final one. On another page I found after digging around a note that said drives could be replaced to increase capacity but it required the repair step after each swap and that additional capacity was not available u til the end. Thus…since the NAS runs some variety of a *nix kernel…it looks like the volumes get expanded with the last repair using the standard command line command…the way RAiD 5 works in general you’ve always been able to use a larger drive but only part would be recognized…until later versions of Windows and macOS came along that could non destructively expand volumes…I think that has been in Unix a lot longer as well as Linux in its various forms. I’ve asked OWC if their SoftRAiD product supports this as well…if not then that’s one advantage that a NAS has over direct attached…but then the direct is faster unless you invest in the 10GB Ethernet and that puts you into the more expensive NAS devices from a quick review of Synology specs…and as I said before either way works. I was just furthering my knowledge on Synology to make better recommendations when asked. I will update when OWC answers the question.

Adding another drive to an empty bay results in increased capacity after the repair…but again if the new one is larger only part of it gets used.

 

[Anjin San]

Thanks for your patience. I'm actually also really interested in your original question about quality ssd and hdd large capacity external drives. I will need to replace my ancient 8tb hdd that I'm using as backup soon. It's old enough that I don't trust it.
Quality storage is an issue we all have....!

Personally I always recommend paying the extra cost for enterprise level drives…they can still obviously fail but generally have longer warranties and thus seem to be more reliable.

 

[wotan1]

Thanks for your patience. I'm actually also really interested in your original question about quality ssd and hdd large capacity external drives. I will need to replace my ancient 8tb hdd that I'm using as backup soon. It's old enough that I don't trust it.
Quality storage is an issue we all have....!

You don’t need speed for backup and spinning disk drives will do just fine. Speed on the other hand is needed for the actual editing.

I think the key is to move older images to slower drives and preserve your faster drive for current images.

The other option is to spend a lot of money on multiple high speed SSD drives. I haven’t priced those but I suspect it may be marginally cheaper than one of those super prime telephoto lens.

In my next life I am going to come back as a billionaire. Maybe then I will get what I want and still be able to please She Who Must Be Obeyed.

 

[AlanB313]

Personally I always recommend paying the extra cost for enterprise level drives…they can still obviously fail but generally have longer warranties and thus seem to be more reliable.

I agree, I plan to get enterprise level replacements when I upgrade. My inherited drives are more than half way through their expected life. That's one reason I went with raid 6 in case I was unlucky and had 2 drives fail simultaneously.

 

[Anjin San]

You don’t need speed for backup and spinning disk drives will do just fine. Speed on the other hand is needed for the actual editing.

I think the key is to move older images to slower drives and preserve your faster drive for current images.

The other option is to spend a lot of money on multiple high speed SSD drives. I haven’t priced those but I suspect it may be marginally cheaper than one of those super prime telephoto lens.

In my next life I am going to come back as a billionaire. Maybe then I will get what I want and still be able to please She Who Must Be Obeyed.

I looked and 8TB SSD drives in the 2.5 inch form factor that fits in my ThunderBay mini were about $1400…each. NVMe 8TB were about the same. I will stick to a 4TB SSD for catalog and current year images and put the rest on the spinning RAID…the increase in speed isn’t worth it to me either.

 

[Patrick M]

I don’t need to worry if two drives fail at the same time. In TEN years I‘ve only had one HDD fail, so two at once, chances are infinitesimally small, plus, it backs up weekly anyway.

 

[wotan1]

I agree, I plan to get enterprise level replacements when I upgrade. My inherited drives are more than half way through their expected life. That's one reason I went with raid 6 in case I was unlucky and had 2 drives fail simultaneously.

You don’t need to worry about two failed drives as long as you have good backups. The worst that could happen is you have to be down while you change drives and restore the raid from the backup.

Just make sure you don’t reformat your card before you have backed things up.