Nikon 600PF First Look Field Review!

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MatthewK said:
I was able to get over the f/5.6 block when I traded my Canon 600 f/4 for the Nikon 500PF. Took a while to get comfortable with the thought of not having as much bokaaaay, but it all turned out alright if you were a little more careful with background selection & distance. With the 800PF, which obliterates backgrounds at f/6.3, I don't even think about f/4 or, heck, 5.6 lenses anymore. f/6.3 at 600mm won't be an issue at all. Maybe this is Nikon's way of subtly nudging photographers to stop-down, in an attempt to stem the rampant overuse of blurred backgrounds and promote acceptance of having subjects fully in focus for once :ROFLMAO:

Now, if you were to ask me how I'd like to shoot a fixed 600mm or 800mm f/11 lens, I'd have some reservations. Everyone has their limits, you see ;)
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Haha, I don't know about mental blocks or any such thing, but going by the majority of opinions in this thread, I think Nikon had better get to work on a Z800mm f8 lens, because that will make the (unneccessarily?) rather large and heavy current Z800PF redundant, because if F6.3 at 600mm is more than OK, then so is F8 at 800mm, because the DOF will be less at 800mm F8 than that of the Z600PF.

I sometimes get a disoriented feeling in threads like these, seeing how people are bending their reasoning and arguments around to fit the bill, but it quickly departs from consistent logic.

So in summary, if I understand correctly, the 800PF is not your ideal lens, too big and heavy, and with a MFD that is awkward, and a background separation that is overly blurring.
Perhaps then the slower lenses are indeed ideal for the majority of users, and in that case we should expect a Z8008PF in due time.
 
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ChrisM said:
Haha, I don't know about mental blocks or any such thing, but going by the majority of opinions in this thread, I think Nikon had better get to work on a Z800mm f8 lens, because that will make the apparently and unneccessarily über large and heavy current Z800PF redundant, because if F6.3 at 600mm is more than OK, then so is F8 at 800mm, because the DOF will be less at 800mm F8 than that of the Z600PF.

I always get a disoriented feeling in threads like these, seeing how people are bending their reasoning and arguments around to fit the bill, but it quickly departs from consistent logic.

So in summary, if I understand correctly, the 800PF is not your ideal lens, too big and heavy, and with a MFD that is awkward, and a background separation that is overly blurring.
Perhaps then the slower lenses are indeed ideal for the majority of users, and in that case we should expect a Z8008PF in due time.
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Your argument would be more in line if you'd say, f7.1.

I'd also then agree that it would be lighter, and the light loss of a third of stop still isn't particularly relevant in terms of exposure or background separation.

But then you still miss the point, that an 800 5.6 would be much heavier, bulkier, and expensive, so people find going to 6.3 an acceptable tradeoff for the relatively minimal losses. 7.1 is 2/3rds of a stop, and 8 is a full stop, which is pushing it for most people.
 
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ChrisM said:
Haha, I don't know about mental blocks or any such thing, but going by the majority of opinions in this thread, I think Nikon had better get to work on a Z800mm f8 lens, because that will make the apparently and unneccessarily über large and heavy current Z800PF redundant, because if F6.3 at 600mm is more than OK, then so is F8 at 800mm, because the DOF will be less at 800mm F8 than that of the Z600PF.

I always get a disoriented feeling in threads like these, seeing how people are bending their reasoning and arguments around to fit the bill, but it quickly departs from consistent logic.

So in summary, if I understand correctly, the 800PF is not your ideal lens, too big and heavy, and with a MFD that is awkward, and a background separation that is overly blurring.
Perhaps then the slower lenses are indeed ideal for the majority of users, and in that case we should expect a Z8008PF in due time.
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Not before we see an Ultra Wide fast prime such as 14 1.8 or 1.4!!! Or a Tilt Shift Lens or a 100-300 f/2!!!!

I jest of course.

If they made an 800 f/8 PF, I’d personally email Nikon saying WTF and to stop reading Internet forum posts Nikon engineers…😊
 
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StevieJSmall said:
Not before we see an Ultra Wide fast prime such as 14 1.8 or 1.4!!! Or a Tilt Shift Lens or a 100-300 f/2!!!!

I jest of course.

If they made an 800 f/8 PF, I’d personally email Nikon saying WTF and to stop reading Internet forum posts Nikon engineers…😊
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Well, there definitely is a change at hand, and Nikon is at the heart of it.
Thing is, they cannot make évery possible lens, and so have to make decisions
But there is some inconsistency, e.g. between the 600PF and 800PF, and perhaps Nikon will eventually offer not two super telephoto lines, but three:
-Top end conventional like Z600TC
-mid end PF, where the current 800PF fits, with medium size and aperture (relative to focal length of course)
-lower end super compact PF, where the 500PF and Z600PF fit, with slowish aperture.
 
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ChrisM said:
I always get a disoriented feeling in threads like these, seeing how people are bending their reasoning and arguments around to fit the bill, but it quickly departs from consistent logic.
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First off I don't recall anyone saying 600 at 6.3 is "more then OK". My take on this thread is the majority feel it is not okay, especially at $4800.
As to fashioning arguments to fit the bill I don't see that either. I won't speak for others but I'm 'okay' (not more than okay) with this 600/6.3 because of its portability, which greatly appeals to me. I mean, good God this lens is barely larger, and about the same weight, as the 100-400 Z lens. A 600mm 3Lb lens.....amazing! There is no doubt that a 600/5.6 lens would be larger and heavier and maybe more suitable to many but also less portable. I do not plan on using this with the 1.4 tele as 840mm at f/9 lacks appeal. Another reason I'm okay with f/6.3 is my 500/4E which I'm very much leaning towards keeping. Choice is nice especially when you can get exactly what you want, but if not then you either accept what is offered or go without. I chose to not go without...
 
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Geoff_G said:
First off I don't recall anyone saying 600 at 6.3 is "more then OK". My take on this thread is the majority feel it is not okay, especially at $4800.
As to fashioning arguments to fit the bill I don't see that either. I won't speak for others but I'm 'okay' (not more than okay) with this 600/6.3 because of its portability, which greatly appeals to me. I mean, good God this lens is barely larger, and about the same weight, as the 100-400 Z lens. A 600mm 3Lb lens.....amazing! There is no doubt that a 600/5.6 lens would be larger and heavier and maybe more suitable to many but also less portable. I do not plan on using this with the 1.4 tele as 840mm at f/9 lacks appeal. Another reason I'm okay with f/6.3 is my 500/4E which I'm very much leaning towards keeping. Choice is nice especially when you can get exactly what you want, but if not then you either accept what is offered or go without. I chose to not go without...
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My reply was to a quoted post about people having a "mental block" when trying to figure out whether f6.3 is fast enough for their wish for a 600mm lens, and in his reply to that post MatthewK confirms that he feels that (very) fast long lenses are an inheritance from the past which he feels he has moved beyond, which is his good right.
I feel myself that in general, also in this thread, there tends to be a dismissive reasoning as to whether the difference between F5.6 anf F6.3 is of any importance, and the reasoning used is not always logical or consistent for me.

But before this starts to inflame, I suggest that there is room for three Nikon super telephoto lines, as in my post above this one, that approach at least should make everyone happy:

-Top end conventional like Z600TC
-mid end PF, where the current 800PF fits, with medium size and aperture (relative to focal length of course)
-lower end super compact PF, where the 500PF and Z600PF fit, with slowish aperture.
 
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ChrisM said:
... I suggest that there is room for three Nikon super telephoto lines, as in my post above this one, that approach at least should make everyone happy:

-Top end conventional like Z600TC
-mid end PF, where the current 800PF fits, with medium size and aperture (relative to focal length of course)
-lower end super compact PF, where the 500PF and Z600PF fit, with slowish aperture.
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This only represents two levels. The 800PF fits in the same group with the 500PF and Z600PF. The lower end/budget group includes the zoom lenses like the Z 180-600 or the old 200-500. It's interesting how people have already forgotten how revolutionary the 800PF is when considered against the only (Nikon) alternative. The 800PF only gives up 1/3 of a stop and is just over half the weight of the f-mount 800mm f5.6E. Also sells for $6500 vs $16,300. The only way to get to 800mm in the budget level lenses is with a TC. In Steve's video he had a graphic that showed this really well.

Screenshot 2023-10-11 041906.jpg
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Yes, Steve's graphic is great and it illustrates the robustness of Nikon's telephoto lens roundup. I'm not sure why everyone is tying themselves in knots over this lens as it fits nicely into the value analysis. If one shoots long, buy the 800, if not, the 600 is the ticket. Complement it with the 180-600 or 400 f/4.5 and enjoy the ride. One thing though, None of these lenses are readily available and for me, that's the major downside. I waited 9 months for the 800, am still waiting on the 180-600, and have friends still on the list for the 600 TC.
 
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A reality check is in order.... Grays of Westminster, London, list the 600 f6.3S PF for £5 000 only, compared to the 600 f4S TC (£15 500) and 600 f4E FL (£13 000). However the image quality and AF speed, weather sealing etc of this new telephoto etc runs a close second to the quality of the f4 exotics.

It is wishful thinking to expect less. Good luck hoping for a lower price on such a high quality 600 prime, which weighs < 1.5 kg but only measures 278 mm. £5 000 is a bargain for this lens. Equally, so is the 800 f6.3S PF at £6 250 (the 800 f5.6E FL with its bespoke TC125 etc lists at £19 000 !). The only hope of finding these Nikkors cheaper is a Nikon Special in 2026 perhaps or maybe a Reconditioned Unit.....

.....or opt for the next tier down, which is the highly effective 1.9kg 180-600 f5.6/f6.3

Nikon's pricing of both Z System PF primes is extremely aggressive. @Steve is correct IMHO - Nikon are aiming to clean up on bird photographers and also safari goers, especially the volant species in the flock who fly worldwide on tours. These guys need the lightest ILC system possible with a 45mp FX sensor, and Z8 AF performance with 20 fps RAW and Precapture with even higher 30 - 120 fps. Add a 24-120 f4S, or similar with the 100-400 S. It's very hard to beat the Bang / $ in ergonomics at the Net Price of this Z System.

As with f4.5 or f5.6 or f8 or f9, a f6.3 focuses seamlessly on the world-leading MILC Autofocus systems (the AF limit = f22). For those tricky I.D. images, this compact 600 f6.3 gets to 1200mm (ZTC2) or 840mm (ZTC14).
 
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NorthernFocus said:
This is a common misconception. For the same FOV the depth of field is the same regardless of focal length.
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Since a 800mmlens does not have the same FOV as a 600mm lens, I am not sure how this would apply.
Assuming you are 25m away from your subject, you would have to crop the 600mm F6.3 image to get the same FOV as the 800mm lens uncropped, so the 800mm F8 lens will have slightly less DOF than the 600mm F6.3 lens after the images have been equalized for FOV.
 
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NorthernFocus said:
This only represents two levels. The 800PF fits in the same group with the 500PF and Z600PF. The lower end/budget group includes the zoom lenses like the Z 180-600 or the old 200-500. It's interesting how people have already forgotten how revolutionary the 800PF is when considered against the only (Nikon) alternative. The 800PF only gives up 1/3 of a stop and is just over half the weight of the f-mount 800mm f5.6E. Also sells for $6500 vs $16,300. The only way to get to 800mm in the budget level lenses is with a TC. In Steve's video he had a graphic that showed this really well.

View attachment 71794
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This illustration only indicates that Nikon feels the Z600mm is a mid-range lens, quality wise.
But the Z800PF does not fit in this scheme, when you take size/weight and relative aperture as a starting point.
It would be:
300PF f4-500PF f5.6-600PF f6.3 - 800PF f8

And/or something like:

300PF f3.2 500 PF f5- 600PF f5.6- 800PF f6.3
 
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ChrisM said:
Haha, I don't know about mental blocks or any such thing, but going by the majority of opinions in this thread, I think Nikon had better get to work on a Z800mm f8 lens, because that will make the (unneccessarily?) rather large and heavy current Z800PF redundant, because if F6.3 at 600mm is more than OK, then so is F8 at 800mm, because the DOF will be less at 800mm F8 than that of the Z600PF.

I sometimes get a disoriented feeling in threads like these, seeing how people are bending their reasoning and arguments around to fit the bill, but it quickly departs from consistent logic.

So in summary, if I understand correctly, the 800PF is not your ideal lens, too big and heavy, and with a MFD that is awkward, and a background separation that is overly blurring.
Perhaps then the slower lenses are indeed ideal for the majority of users, and in that case we should expect a Z8008PF in due time.
Click to expand...

Just sayin the 800PF is too narrow FOV and too long MFD for me. Didn’t say anything about it being “overly blurring”.

There isn’t some prevailing group logic/group think that you’re being forced to adhere to… make your own observations and determinations.
 
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MatthewK said:
Just sayin the 800PF is too narrow FOV and too long MFD for me. Didn’t say anything about it being “overly blurring”.

There isn’t some prevailing group logic/group think that you’re being forced to adhere to… make your own observations and determinations.
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'in an attempt to stem the rampant overuse of blurred backgrounds and promote acceptance of having subjects fully in focus for once'

Time to abort this thread....
 
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MatthewK said:
Oh dear… you didn’t catch the tongue in cheek.
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I sent you a reply PM Matthew, explaining that even though your post that made me feel I was misquoting to make a point, was the trigger, it is nothing personal that makes me leave this thread.
It is just the realization that it is utterly impossible to have a discussion on a new release if you are yourself not happy with how it turned out.
No matter your attempts to stay unbiased, you end up raining over the parade of others.

I can understand that and even though I really hoped that Nikon would realize their 600mm f5.6PF patent, it is only a luxury problem, as I explained to you that being out in nature and enjoying nature is of vastly greater importance than the gear you take along.
 
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ChrisM said:
Since a 800mmlens does not have the same FOV as a 600mm lens, I am not sure how this would apply.
Assuming you are 25m away from your subject, you would have to crop the 600mm F6.3 image to get the same FOV as the 800mm lens uncropped, so the 800mm F8 lens will have slightly less DOF than the 600mm F6.3 lens after the images have been equalized for FOV.
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You're confusing the terms FOV and angle of view. Any two lenses regardless of focal length can have the same FOV. And for the same FOV and aperture the DOF will be the same.

Agree that cropping to achieve FOV is another thing altogether. If you throw cropping into the equation then yes an 800mm f8 lens has slightly narrower DOF than cropping with a 600mm f6.3 from the same shooting distance.

Nextlife1 said:
That’s true—at the same aperture. But at the same FOV DOF is different of course between f6.3 and 8.
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Of course. Context...
 
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Steve said:
Nikon just released their new 600PF VR S series lens, exclusively for the Nikon Z mount! I was fortunate enough to spend some time in the field with the 600PF prior to today’s announcement and I can’t wait to share what I’ve discovered (I was only one of two YouTubers in the US to have access to it)!

Find out why you’re gonna want THIS lens to be your new hiking buddy!!

Of course, we’ll also tackle the question on everyone’s mind:

“Why get the 600PF when the 180-600mm gets you to 600mm and F/6.3 for far less money?”

Check it out, let me know your thoughts.


Press Release:

PORTABLE, POWERFUL & PREMIUM: NIKON RELEASES THE LIGHTWEIGHT NIKKOR Z 600MM F/6.3 VR S SUPER-TELEPHOTO PRIME

The Lightest 600mm Prime in its Class Opens the Possibility of Handheld Shooting at Extreme Distances

MELVILLE, NY (October 11, 2023) Today Nikon Inc. announced yet another premium super-telephoto lens, the NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S. This latest S-Line prime lens is the newest addition to Nikon’s extremely popular lineup of PF lenses that deliver big reach in a surprisingly small and lightweight package.

Wildlife, aviation and motorsport shooters need spontaneous versatility, fast precise focus, and a lens that won’t compromise image quality. The NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S is an S-Line super-telephoto prime lens that is made to be easily handheld. Users can leave the monopod at home, since it is the lightest in its class1, and offers superior optical performance and portability with a total length of only 11in (278mm) and approx. weight of 1,390g (3lbs). Furthermore, the lens is designed so that its center of gravity is positioned closer to the body side, offering optimal balance. This also makes the NIKKOR Z 600mm an ideal lens for panning in situations that require lens control and stability, such as automotive racing, or fast-moving subjects like wild birds in flight.

The use of the Phase Fresnel (PF) lens element contributes to a significantly smaller overall size and weight, reducing the need for a tripod. With advanced AF and VR performance as well as S-Line superior rendering quality, the NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S gives users the confidence to get tack-sharp images of fast-moving subjects from a distance.

Primary features of the NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S
• Hand-held shooting is made possible with a total length of approximately 11 in (278mm) and weight of approximately 1,390g (3lbs), the lightest in its class.
• Chromatic aberration is significantly reduced with the adoption of PF and ED glass elements. In addition, the adoption of an SR lens element controls short-wavelength light, the effects of which are difficult to correct, achieving highly precise chromatic aberration compensation.
• Nikon's original Nano Crystal Coat has been adopted to effectively reduce ghost and flare.
• By using the Z TELECONVERTER TC-1.4× or Z TELECONVERTER TC-2.0× the telephoto range can be expanded to 840mm or 1200mm respectively, while taking advantage of the lens’ AF and VR performance to realize superior sharpness and clarity.
• Equipped with Normal VR mode, which demonstrates superior 5.5-stop stabilization, as well as Sport VR mode, which stabilizes the viewfinder display with continuous shooting, making it easier to track rapidly moving subjects.2
• When paired with a compatible body, Synchro VR can be activated to achieve up to 6.0-stop stabilization3 by combining in-camera VR and lens VR.
• Adoption of a stepping motor (STM) ensures fast and quiet autofocusing.
• Superior dust- and drip-resistant performance4 is supported, and excellent anti-fouling performance is achieved through the adoption of fluorine coat.
• Equipped with four lens Fn2 buttons and one lens Fn button that can be customized and assigned to a wide variety of functions.
• Equipped with a memory recall function5 that instantly recalls a focus position stored in advance by pressing the button to which the function has been assigned.
• A design that takes video recording into consideration with quiet operation and stable exposure, as well as functions including focus-breathing suppression that effectively reduces shifting of the angle of view with focusing.

Price and Availability
The new NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S will be available in late October for a suggested retail price of $4799.95.* For more information about the latest Nikon products, including the vast collection of NIKKOR Z lenses and the entire line of Z series cameras, please visit Nikonusa.com.

About Nikon 
Nikon Inc. is a world leader in digital imaging, precision optics and technologies for photo and video capture; globally recognized for setting new standards in product design and performance for an award-winning array of equipment that enables visual storytelling and content creation. Nikon Inc. distributes consumer and professional Z series mirrorless cameras, digital SLR cameras, a vast array of NIKKOR and NIKKOR Z lenses, Speedlights and system accessories, Nikon COOLPIX® compact digital cameras and Nikon software products. For more information, dial (800) NIKON-US or visit www.nikonusa.com, which links all levels of photographers and visual storytellers to the Web's most comprehensive learning and sharing communities. Connect with Nikon on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Vimeo and Flickr.
# #​

Specifications, equipment, and release dates are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the manufacturer.
1. Among f/6.3 and faster interchangeable lenses for full-frame/FX-format mirrorless cameras, including those with a focal length of 600 mm, available as of October 11th 2023. Statement based on Nikon research.
2. Measured in accordance with CIPA standards. This value is achieved when attached to a camera with full-frame/FX-format sensor with the camera's VR function set to [NORMAL]
3. Measured in accordance with CIPA standards. In [NORMAL] mode when combined with cameras that support Synchro VR.
4. Thorough dust- and drip-resistance is not guaranteed in all situations or under all conditions.
5. Camera firmware must be updated to the latest version to use this function.
*SRP (Suggested Retail Price) listed only as a suggestion. Actual prices are set by dealers and are subject to change at any time.

Photos:


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Hi Steve

The replacement foot looks to be the same as on the 400 F/4.5. Is that correct?


Rich
 
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Question: if I’m shooting a small bird, what would the resulting photo look like:

500mm at ~9ft distance from subject

600mm at ~13ft distance from subject

800mm at ~16ft distance from subject

Trying to wrap my brain around how each lens will work out. Is this getting into the topic of magnification?
 
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MatthewK said:
Question: if I’m shooting a small bird, what would the resulting photo look like:

500mm at ~9ft distance from subject

600mm at ~13ft distance from subject

800mm at ~16ft distance from subject

Trying to wrap my brain around how each lens will work out. Is this getting into the topic of magnification?
Click to expand...
The size of the subject/FOV is simply proportional to the difference in focal length as well as proportional to distance.

Horizontal FOV

500mm@ 9 ft = 7.8 in
600mm@ 13ft = 9.4 in
800mm@ 16ft = 8.6 in

If you're trying to correlate it to MFD and which ends up with more bird in the frame the specs of each lens indicate a reproduction(i.e. magnification at MFD) ratio. The larger the number the larger the subject is in the frame.

500PF = .18x
600PF = .15x
800PF = .16x
 
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