Len Cohen
Member
A friend of mine has the canon with pre RAW capture. Its a game changer for those that shoot birds. The moment the Z9II has that feature I am done with my Z9
Nikon Rumors: Z9II
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I don't think it's a game changer, unless you're talking from a time savings in culling images perspective. We basically have unlimited buffer in HE RAW so you'll get the shot either way, it's just a matter of sorting them. That unlimited buffer was a huge upgrade.
There's no shutter to wear out so just shoot it at 20 FPS for minutes.
arbitrage
Well-known member
I tried that method recently for getting some Ruby-crowned kinglets taking off of cattails and trying to get them in flight. It worked but I did have buffer issues with my Sony at 30FPS so couldn't go on too long. When I have actual precapture I will often have it active for a minute or longer waiting for something to happen. Holding down at 20FPS for a minute gets you 1200 shots. Do that a few times and the issue will be card space. You will need a lot of large cards to be doing that all morning.
I don't think anything can buffer 30 FPS unlimited yet.
Z8 I can at 20 with HE. And how I don't overflow the card is I shoot until the thing happens, then stop, back LCD scroll and protect the few poses I want, immediately in playback delete all. It just keeps the protected. I repeat this. NO card space issues. When I get home I don't have a zillion photo's to sort though. With how fast you can scroll though them, like fast forwarding a video it's pretty efficient. I just do this as I'm waiting for more things to happen. There's even a key on the back dedicated for it. All I need to know is the composition positions right, posed right quick check on focus if I'm concerned and that gets protected for review at home. I don't even pop cards out of cameras anymore, just wireless transfer.
That's my workaround to not having Pre-Capture RAW and it's not been that big of a deal. There's a lot of waiting for wildlife to do things. If it was hectic that's what a spare card's for. HE does not use much space. It's about 18-20000 shots on a 512 GB card. That's about 15 minutes of strait shooting at 20 FPS.
They're still 14 bit RAW files and I cannot tell the difference in practical use between lossless compressed, HE* and HE.
Now would I want pre-capture to include RAW, of course who wouldn't, it's still more efficient. But a Z9ii with pre-capture offers nothing I don't already have for ability to capture a shot. It ends up being a really expensive convenience feature.
Now what else they may come up with, in addition to that may sway me if they make enough advancements. But Pre-capture RAW and 10 FPS will not be a sale for Nikon for me personally as I just won't capture much more than I already can.
That's just me, for some it's enough to spend the money.
I'd honestly be more impressed if we can pull NEF from the 8.3K 60 at 38 megapixels in camera.
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I have 2 Z9's and a Z6III and surprised someone said they checked the Z6III out in a store and could not tell a difference in the EVF. For me there is no contest the Z6III EVF is better and brighter especially in low light just flat out a better EVF on the Z6III.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, i think people’s reaction to evfs are pretty varied and personal.
i recall everyone complaining about the z6ii and it looked fine to me
i recall everyone complaining about the z6ii and it looked fine to me
Kuau
Member
For sure 30fps RAW with precapture higher res EVF and improved AI subject detection then I will stick with Nikon
I'd be honestly pretty shocked if it doesn't at least hit those marks. I was expecting Sony to really push forward with the A-1ii and I'm sure Nikon did as well and had specs in mind anticipating that. So I'd be very surprised if the Z9ii doesn't exceed 30 FPS in some way.
I'm really curious how the new RAW compression technology plays into the speeds they can push. I mean HE is basically unlimited buffer right now, which makes you wonder why they stopped at 20 FPS. Also the Z8/9 can shoot 12 bit NRAW at 38 megapixels and 60 frames per second right now. So it makes you wonder why it can't also do that for stills. And that's just the current hardware.
So I expect it's going to push past 30. I wouldn't be surprised to see 60. I'm pretty sure we'd all be very excited for 60 FPS at 12 bit and 30 at 14 bit.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
seems reasonable.
since they're both (assuming the rumors are true) using more or less the same sensor tech, this round it isn't surprising each has a pretty good idea of what the other is capable of. my guess is we'll see a new sensor next round which will change the game up again.
yah, i think nikon will flex the muscles of their pipeline architecture. i'd be totally surprised if they don't go v4 and if they don't have the ability to push that pipeline pretty darn hard this time around, with things like he* encoding and c2pa encoding in that pipeline.
unlimited buffer within a very specific set of constraints. we don't know how they are implementing this, is it a software routine, is this optimized in hardware, each of these can have caps. if it's sw, it's dependent on how fast the processor is, and so it'll work fine up until it runs out of processing power and then it can't go any faster. likewise with a hardware based solution, it will have a throughput max.
i also am skeptical if the nikon z9 and expeed7 is set up to actually max out the cfe-b. i've not really seen any evidence it's ever hit more than what is possible with one pci lane, which makes me wonder if that's all it has (dedicated to that function).
jpgrove
Active member
So much speculation here, what I think is clear is that Nikon are clearly looking to increase the life cycle of the Z9 by tweaking it. To what extent of a tweak is difficult to say, I cant imagine a big redesign or for that matter a new Expeed CPU. I think what we may see is a refresh in that such features as RAW Pre Capture, RED Video features, changes in the EVF, AF is a difficult one but its like a boost in AF performance is added, (but I also think the current Z9 will also get that) and couple that with some new firmware. I am not sure about CFexpress 4.0; mainly because I think that might involved a great deal more hardware changes and I dont see the need for it above the current write speeds of the cards.
I don't chase MP count, I would rather keep 45mp and get better readout speed, better noise control and better dynamic range.
I am also hoping that the Z8 gets some of the bug fixes that the Z9 did with V5.10 (I mean the CFexpress issues and the locks ups)
The complete fiasco of the Z6 II and Z7 II dual cpus makes me very cautious now for any Mk II model.
I don't chase MP count, I would rather keep 45mp and get better readout speed, better noise control and better dynamic range.
I am also hoping that the Z8 gets some of the bug fixes that the Z9 did with V5.10 (I mean the CFexpress issues and the locks ups)
The complete fiasco of the Z6 II and Z7 II dual cpus makes me very cautious now for any Mk II model.
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Maljo
Well-known member
Subject Detection can always be improved: faster, more accurate, more precise, more species. EVF and LCD can always be improved as well. Buffer size can be improved. Support of the faster CF Express B cards. How about a lighter weight Z9?
S⊕TA
Member
Heck, they can even add pixel shift, hint, hint (to the existing one
)Len Cohen
Member
I am not sure what you are saying. On the Z9 you can shoot pre capture from 30 fps to over 100! I choose 30 and do exactly what you have described. The issue for me is JPEG vs RAW and thats a big deal for me personally. The rest doesnt matter. To go home and review 30 pics every time you lightly press the shutter is inconceivable. Just pick the specific shot you are trying to capture very carefully
S⊕TA
Member
I think he meant raw @ 30fps
I know the Z9 can do precapture JPEG and 30/60/120 as I have the Z8. I’m talking about Im not aware of a camera that can shoot 30 FPS RAW without some form of limitation currently, be it compression, buffer being pretty short, EVF reduction in quality in some modes like af-c or something that generally reduces the cameras performance.
I then described how I personally work around no precapture without having to review scores of images at home. And still get them as RAW files. I just review shortly after using the back LCD to protect potential shots with decent poses then delete the rest on the spot which is very fast the way I do it. So for me I’m not paying 4-6k for that feature as it basically ends up being a very expensive time saving luxury. If the Z8/9 couldn’t buffer forever in HE that would be a different story. But they can and I feel I’m not missing much at 20fps for most subjects.
So at least pre-capture RAW and 30fps would not be a tempting enough feature for me to spent that kind of money as it isn’t enough ROI for me as a hobbyist in photography. I understand it for professionals or others who just want it.
I’d be more excited for the ability to pull 12/14 bit NEFs from the 8.3k60 feed in camera.
Before a Z9II, what about a free or pay for firmware update for our present Z9's? I would like Nikon to take the present firmware to the maximum, well almost the maximum.
S⊕TA
Member
How about free, and to the max.
you and I share same last name, except I am "le" not "el"
Hope I didn't already post this but I so love the Canon back "dial" that I always want the 4 way round circle selector with center button to just be like the Canon. Then I could set up the Z9 and R1 almost identically.
That’s not going to happen.
viper699
Well-known member
Spot on!!
maxxus46
Well-known member
This exactly...agree. So many amazing shots taken without pre capture. It's not a must have , maybe a nice to have. Furthermore, the HE RAW buffer (both Z8/Z9) with the right CF express card is amazing..over 1k continous frames!
Precapture has been a game changer for me, especially shooting birds flying off branches. I've gotten incredible shots I could never get before. I'm waiting for a chance to use precapture to photograph lightning strikes. Or a butterfly taking off. Or a snake or lizard shooting out their tongue.
I can live with Precapture with high quality JPEGs. As long as I get the exposure and white balance correctly, I have very usable images.
That said, I would love to have Precapture with RAW and I hope that will be coming soon.
I can live with Precapture with high quality JPEGs. As long as I get the exposure and white balance correctly, I have very usable images.
That said, I would love to have Precapture with RAW and I hope that will be coming soon.
maxxus46
Well-known member
To each his own I guess. To me precapture is a nice to have but I can certainly do without it until I upgrade the next Z8 mkii. I'm in no rush, happy with the results I get today . YMMV
I just got my second Z9. I've been asked why didn't I wait for the Z9II. My honest answer is that I while I think there will be upgrades and new things in the Z9II I don't think they will be worth the wait for me. I don't think there will be anything groundbreaking in the camera that makes it worth waiting especially if it is at a higher price.
You're right. We each have our own preferences and needs. For me, bird photography is important. Since 1995, I have taken 12 trips to various African countries and one of my favorite bird subjects has been the lilac breasted roller. I have photographed that bird on almost every trip. Beautiful shots of it sitting on a branch. But I tried again and again to get it flying off the branch, all with very limited success. Often I had a great shot of just the tail as the bird was flying out of the frame. That was until last April when I was in Botswana and now could use precapture on my Z9. I was able to photograph the lilac breasted roller flying off a number of times. Here is the shot from my first attempt to use precapture with the lilac breasted roller.
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