ajrmd
Well-known member
It looks larger and bulkier than the OEM. Have you weighed it in comparison?
Nikon Z 180-600 ? ( replacement collars, filters)
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No I have not weighed it, not sure I have a scale that could do it but if I find one I will.
A quick look at some of the specs online and it looks like the Kirk is about 3.5oz heavier than the original collar. If I do find a scale I will check that.
GregWCIL
Member
I’m curious how it compares as far as loosening and swiveling like when on a tripod. I’m certainly not impressed by the original.
My Kirk replacement collar arrived yesterday also. Love the extra length of the area swiss foot compared to the original. Much more comfortable to hold. Very well made, like all Kirk products.
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Comparing the above photo, the original Nikon foot looks much too short.
Non-removable collars running as smooth as the ones on high end F-mount primes and Z-mount S Line need to be this way, because this is one of the requirements to get the smoothness in the first place and to help maintain it for a long, long time, and for this type of collar it is the right way to allow just replacing the foot.
The removable ones are no more but a metal ring with a friction layer inside, that is sliding over the surface of the lens body. To make something like this working as smooth as the classic collars I would consider as almost impossible and there was a way to do it, it would probably be very costly. That's the reason that lenses produced with budget-friendliness in mind often have the cheap and simple removable collars (like the Z 180-600). And sometimes they even make lenses that allow using a collar but don't have in the box as a standard (like e.g. the 300PF or 70-200 f4G),
Coming back to the 180-600 - and I know there is a lot of dispute here about buying "chinese crap" versus supporting home country or regional companies. There is a replacement foot from iShoot (Z 1860). I will get it because I made positive experience with iShoot products in general and with the tripdod collar for the previsously mentioned F-mount lenses for work in combination with macro rings.
One of the benefits of the iShoot compared with Nikon is, that for removing and re-installing the Nikon collar you need to unscrew the knob completely, that isalso used for fixing and unfixing the lens while iShoot uses a different way. For fixing and unfixing the lens you have a kind of rapid release knob that you just turn from end to end (app. 90°), which will open wide enough to allow to turn the lens, but you can't make it "too loose" so that the collar is in danger to slip out of the groove in the lens barrel. To remove you pull the knob in the loose position and a spring-loaded pin unlocks he collar to split. IMHO much smarter and safer. With the Nikon collar to make it too loose and allow the lens barrel to slip out of the collar and follow the law of gravity.
An important disadvantage of the iShoot protuct is, that the Nikon collar has grommets for a strap, while the iShoot doesn't. How important that is, depends on the user, but I guess many of us who want to use the lens for "walk around hunting" could find it appealing to be able to put a strap on - or the connectors for a strap system like Peak Design.
What other third party products will look like, I don't know, but if you rely on the option to have a strap on your 180-600 there's currently no alternative to the original Nikon collar.
And there something else that youd makd it preferable for you to use the Nikon foot with an additional Arca Swiss rail. People with big hands or those wanting to carry the lens by the foot might find it more comfortable to use the Nikon collar combinaed with a longer plate. The iShoot foot is just something slightly longer an 10 cm, so that you could end up not being able ro have all fingers underneath "the handle".
The removable ones are no more but a metal ring with a friction layer inside, that is sliding over the surface of the lens body. To make something like this working as smooth as the classic collars I would consider as almost impossible and there was a way to do it, it would probably be very costly. That's the reason that lenses produced with budget-friendliness in mind often have the cheap and simple removable collars (like the Z 180-600). And sometimes they even make lenses that allow using a collar but don't have in the box as a standard (like e.g. the 300PF or 70-200 f4G),
Coming back to the 180-600 - and I know there is a lot of dispute here about buying "chinese crap" versus supporting home country or regional companies. There is a replacement foot from iShoot (Z 1860). I will get it because I made positive experience with iShoot products in general and with the tripdod collar for the previsously mentioned F-mount lenses for work in combination with macro rings.
One of the benefits of the iShoot compared with Nikon is, that for removing and re-installing the Nikon collar you need to unscrew the knob completely, that isalso used for fixing and unfixing the lens while iShoot uses a different way. For fixing and unfixing the lens you have a kind of rapid release knob that you just turn from end to end (app. 90°), which will open wide enough to allow to turn the lens, but you can't make it "too loose" so that the collar is in danger to slip out of the groove in the lens barrel. To remove you pull the knob in the loose position and a spring-loaded pin unlocks he collar to split. IMHO much smarter and safer. With the Nikon collar to make it too loose and allow the lens barrel to slip out of the collar and follow the law of gravity.
An important disadvantage of the iShoot protuct is, that the Nikon collar has grommets for a strap, while the iShoot doesn't. How important that is, depends on the user, but I guess many of us who want to use the lens for "walk around hunting" could find it appealing to be able to put a strap on - or the connectors for a strap system like Peak Design.
What other third party products will look like, I don't know, but if you rely on the option to have a strap on your 180-600 there's currently no alternative to the original Nikon collar.
And there something else that youd makd it preferable for you to use the Nikon foot with an additional Arca Swiss rail. People with big hands or those wanting to carry the lens by the foot might find it more comfortable to use the Nikon collar combinaed with a longer plate. The iShoot foot is just something slightly longer an 10 cm, so that you could end up not being able ro have all fingers underneath "the handle".
ajrmd
Well-known member
It was designed for a strap and to mount to a tripod, not for use on a gimbal. The Kirk looks pretty nice though I'm not sure if it's $250 nice. By comparison, the iShoot doesn't have a QD and appears to be much shorter (at least by a 1/3rd).
MikeJ
Well-known member
Is the Kirk smoother rotating? That's my biggest complaint on the 180-600, you have to loosen the collar so much to get it to rotate. I got the Hejnar plate because I wanted the QD. But I have to agree, $250 is kind of a lot.
Yup, among the image of this ebay offer there is a drawing with measurements. The Arca foot closes off flush with the camera side rim of the flange and it is 105mm long. I don't know the figures for the Kirk though.
GregWCIL
Member
Pat, thanks for the photo. Two questions: first how easy does it loosen up to swivel? Second, on my original collar the lens and Z9 balance about the center of the short foot. I can’t tell from your photo where the QD attachment is.
Greg, Here's a pic of the bottom of the foot. The QD attachment is in the center. It seems to swivel ok as far as can determine. I guess you are talking about the balance on a Gimbal? I haven't had the opportunity to try it on the 9 yet as I keep this lens because of its weight on my z8.
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ajrmd
Well-known member
Yes, that's my experience as well and from the photo, it appears that the QD attachment is a bit forward of the balance point. Can you confirm that?
This is the 180-600 / z9 with the Kirk Replacement collar, on the Wimberly 200 Gimbal. Appears to balance very well at this point.
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Regarding the Kirk collar, I am still waiting to read about two of the following:
1. How much do you need to turn the locking knob before you can rotate the lens, and how quickly (or slowly) can your re-lock the collar.
2. Is rotation smooth enough to use with a gimbal, or is the rotation rough w/ intermittent resistance.
The OEM collar requires at least 360 degrees of rotation to unlock and lock the collar, this is less than ideal.
bruce
1. How much do you need to turn the locking knob before you can rotate the lens, and how quickly (or slowly) can your re-lock the collar.
2. Is rotation smooth enough to use with a gimbal, or is the rotation rough w/ intermittent resistance.
The OEM collar requires at least 360 degrees of rotation to unlock and lock the collar, this is less than ideal.
bruce
Bruce, It appears that the collar screw must be turned at least 2 full times to allow the lens to be used on a gimbal. Maybe 3 depending on one's preference. To lock it securely the same 2 to 3 360 degree turns are necessary. Rotation is smoother than the original but there is still a slight bit of drag as the lens must rub against the collar when it's being turned. I think that is inherit to using a collar compared to a more expensive lens such as the 400 4.5, 2.8, 600 TC, etc... For me it s perfect. Very well built. Love the extra length of the foot, for not only use on the gimbal but when hand holding, as well.
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I am on my way in a little while to order a 180-600 from my local shop. In the past I have always ordered a RRS or Kirk replacement foot for my long lenses, but this time I don't feel like spending 250 bucks. (At least not now, maybe down the line). I think I will just get an Arca Swiss plate - BH has a long one for thirteen bucks. I realize the Kirk replacement also makes a nice handle for carrying, but due to the weight of this lens I may remove the collar altogether when shooting handheld.
(In case anyone else wants a point of reference like me, I owned the Sony 200-600 for a year and a half and it has a non-removable collar. The Nikon with collar removed is a full pound lighter than the Sony with built-in collar and foot attached: 4.3lb for Nikon vs 5.3lb for Sony. Even with collar and foot attached, Nikon is still half a pound lighter, though this is Nikon collar and not Kirk - not sure what weight difference is there.)
(In case anyone else wants a point of reference like me, I owned the Sony 200-600 for a year and a half and it has a non-removable collar. The Nikon with collar removed is a full pound lighter than the Sony with built-in collar and foot attached: 4.3lb for Nikon vs 5.3lb for Sony. Even with collar and foot attached, Nikon is still half a pound lighter, though this is Nikon collar and not Kirk - not sure what weight difference is there.)
ajrmd
Well-known member
Good strategy though how do you propose hiking around with the lens if you remove the foot/collar? I'm sure it would be fine walking a short distance from the car, though I wouldn't want to carry it through the woods. That's why, for me a QD is a must have with any proposed solution. I like Hejnar's plate, though am a bit leery of a single 1/4" attachment point.
Thanks for answering my questions... makes me wonder if the upgrade is worth it to me. It sounds like an improvement, but not as large as I had hoped. I will be curious to see if RRS produces something that requires fewer turns to produce smooth rotation. I have found that OEM collar has improved with use, but the need to turn that knob through multiple rotations is quite annoying.
bruce
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I understand. Yes, it will be interesting to see if RRS can improve upon the Kirk design. However, it seems to me that just the nature of a collar itself, in which it is a separate part to the lens lends itself to a less than completely smooth rotation. Especially if one is trying to a compare it to or achieve that same rotation convenience and smoothness of a much more expensive lens with integrated rotation. In addition, the need to keep the entire collar tight without movement when not using a rotating movement, appears to necessitate turning the locking screw until tight.
screwtop
New member
I heard recently of someone who bought something from Amazon, had to return it & claim a refund, and found out it was made in China - and that to return it to China meant paying import duty - so much, in fact, that it was more than the amount of his claim, so he'd have lost even more, if he returned the faulty item, than if he simply chucked it in the dustbin and forgot about it. The Chinese CAN make things well. But I'm damned if I'm going to risk being treated like that! Maybe Amazon needs to think about it a bit more, too.
I just oereded the Haoge replacement collar. It has a QD socket too. I use the Black Rapid Safety line to the camera strap lug andante either the long lens for to the camera strap - whichever I have at the time
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ajrmd
Well-known member
Let us know well it is constructed and works? I purchased a Hejar plate and am extremely happy with it.
Anybody know if the Kirk replacement foot/collar for the Nikon 200-500mm also fits the Z 180-600mm?
MikeJ
Well-known member
I'm gonna call a strong hunch that no, it won't fit. However, since I have both lenses, and my 200-500mm has the Kirk collar, I can certainly try it out for you. Won't be till tomorrow evening since I'm currently not at home...