No you're not missing anything. I've found a way to make them work for me, so life goes on.
Nikon Z8 Banks - Really poor implementation of user settings or am I missing something?
- Thread starter Robert.Panick
- Start date
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
Hi Robert - yes I think you are missing some things (they are not obvious):
>>- No quick way to switch from one set of settings to another. On a camera with a dial, you would just turn to C1 or U1 (camera dependent), you can even set a button to that setting group.
>>- To switch settings the best I've seen so far is to set up the Info button to have Banks and Custom Settings show up. But then you have to move to the Banks cell, change it, move to the Custom Settings cell and change it. Perhaps there is a quicker way to do this, but I haven't found it yet.
^^^ set a custom control for a button press&hold + dial to change banks. VERY quick. No menus. And much faster than the U1 dial spin, which I find to be quite awkward with the hold-down-the-button-and-spin-the-dial UI.
>>- There are some really annoying things that aren't covered under Banks or Custom Settings, one in particular is the continuous frame rate. It's really annoying to have to remember that you have to adjust the burst rate when going from landscape to wildlife.
^^^ Agreed that everything *should* be in banks (an error on Nikon's part imo), but you can use RSF to handle some of those cases. BUT for a landscape bank where you want to limit the number of captures you take, I setup bracketing as part of the bank - which will limit the number of frames taken when I hold down the shutter release. Personally I still want 20fps when I do that.
Also see my previous post, above:
https://bcgforums.com/threads/nikon...s-or-am-i-missing-something.41384/post-460028
Cheers!
...Dave...
fcotterill
Well-known member
Since switching to a D500, 2016, I've preferred Banks over the User U1, U2 modes. They are by no means perfect but I get them to work reliably for my needs as an outdoor photographer (mostly).
There are slight differences between what the banks save in Pro DSLRs and Pro Mirrorless cameras, which can be frustrating. The Z9 introduced the option to copy an entire bank to save setup times and restores etc
It's definitely an advantage to switch over (almost) all the camera settings for an unexpected close-up of landscape opportunity; and then get back into Wildlife settings with 2 iMenu button switches.
There are slight differences between what the banks save in Pro DSLRs and Pro Mirrorless cameras, which can be frustrating. The Z9 introduced the option to copy an entire bank to save setup times and restores etc
It's definitely an advantage to switch over (almost) all the camera settings for an unexpected close-up of landscape opportunity; and then get back into Wildlife settings with 2 iMenu button switches.
When I went from a D500 where I gave up on shooting banks to the Canon EOS R7 with C1, C2, and C3 settings on the dials, I felt like a new photographic world opened up. I was able to set C1 wth. my most commonly used settings, C2 was essentially C1 with a faster default shutter speed and mechanical shutter enabled for fast moving stuff, and C3 I have set up for macro work. If I make a change on the fly, all I have to do is quickly flip the dial to get back to my default baseline settings.
Why Nikon won't do this on their "pro" and "pro-sumer" cameras is beyond me. I would think Pros would benefit from this ability to quickly and effortlessly re-establish their baseline settings.
Jeff
Why Nikon won't do this on their "pro" and "pro-sumer" cameras is beyond me. I would think Pros would benefit from this ability to quickly and effortlessly re-establish their baseline settings.
Jeff
Robert.Panick
Member
The Pro-sumer cameras like the Z6 and Z7 have U1, U2, U3 on the dial. It's only the Pro bodies Z8 and Z9 that have banks. Of course there are other things that Nikon does that irritate me on the Pro bodies. One I just recently realized is that the Pro-sumer bodies can use a simple Bluetooth remote, the Pro cameras need an expensive (at least the Nikon unit) device that bolts on the outside. I can see supporting the latter, what I can't see is not supporting the former when you don't need the high end capabilities.
The banks are designed to support needs of advanced amateurs and professionals. That does not mean they work for everyone, but on flagship bodies they are geared to those segments above other use cases.
The differences in settings are a lot greater at an advanced level that many people realize. At an advanced level in nature photography, it depends on the specific subject matter and location you photograph. The same is true for sports. Something as simple as Fast Action is not enough. Going back 10 years with Canon, I know a Canon employee whose responsibilities included setting up cameras at the Olympics for specific sports, or at the Super Bowl for specific field positions or assignments. Lindsay Silverman of Nikon recently shared specific differences in settings he was using. These settings included things like customized iMenu options, customized AF Lock on settings by subject and sport, customized FN button options for Focus, Fn buttons and Cycle AF, and different settings for fast action and subjects that move quickly. At a professional level, you're never going to have enough Custom Bank options because you probably need 10-20 different combinations. Said another way, one of the keys to banks is you are making changes in Fn buttons, focus options and the iMenu covering the settings you frequently change. But you are normally not making basic changes like exposure and aperture which are better accomplished with Recall Shooting or simply adjusting Aperture and Exposure using control wheels.
Not everyone needs this level of customization, but the cameras were designed to support those who do need a lot of different options. They are also designed to allow several photographers to each load their own settings and preferences when they pick up a single camera, or to configure several different cameras for specific uses. Operationally it's easy - you just load the settings you want onto a card and then load them onto your camera. It's the same setup every time and becomes part of your workflow.
Don't forget, there are also video settings that can be very advanced just as there are still photography settings. This adds to the complexity of the kind of options you need to support different Nikon photographers.
I do agree it can get too complicated at times - and everyone does not need that level of complexity. But fundamentally it's a change in workflow, and then fully exploiting the capability of the camera. I'd hate to have more limitations and lack the ability to load the settings I need.
The differences in settings are a lot greater at an advanced level that many people realize. At an advanced level in nature photography, it depends on the specific subject matter and location you photograph. The same is true for sports. Something as simple as Fast Action is not enough. Going back 10 years with Canon, I know a Canon employee whose responsibilities included setting up cameras at the Olympics for specific sports, or at the Super Bowl for specific field positions or assignments. Lindsay Silverman of Nikon recently shared specific differences in settings he was using. These settings included things like customized iMenu options, customized AF Lock on settings by subject and sport, customized FN button options for Focus, Fn buttons and Cycle AF, and different settings for fast action and subjects that move quickly. At a professional level, you're never going to have enough Custom Bank options because you probably need 10-20 different combinations. Said another way, one of the keys to banks is you are making changes in Fn buttons, focus options and the iMenu covering the settings you frequently change. But you are normally not making basic changes like exposure and aperture which are better accomplished with Recall Shooting or simply adjusting Aperture and Exposure using control wheels.
Not everyone needs this level of customization, but the cameras were designed to support those who do need a lot of different options. They are also designed to allow several photographers to each load their own settings and preferences when they pick up a single camera, or to configure several different cameras for specific uses. Operationally it's easy - you just load the settings you want onto a card and then load them onto your camera. It's the same setup every time and becomes part of your workflow.
Don't forget, there are also video settings that can be very advanced just as there are still photography settings. This adds to the complexity of the kind of options you need to support different Nikon photographers.
I do agree it can get too complicated at times - and everyone does not need that level of complexity. But fundamentally it's a change in workflow, and then fully exploiting the capability of the camera. I'd hate to have more limitations and lack the ability to load the settings I need.
Robert.Panick
Member
I get all that, but I fail to see how banks are an improvement over user settings in other cameras.
All that being true, adding an option for the user to say "always return to my saved settings" would not restrict having everything be free flowing.
Robert.Panick
Member
Amen
Kumarsnaveen
Member
For long, been in camp that Nikon’s bank’s implementation is kludgy. Tried multiple times and always found them difficult. Finally found a way to make it work for me.
Banks help me switch between genres easily. In a genre easy to switch between photos and videos. These banks help me to get more out of power of hybrid camera.
1. Remember It’s a 2 step process, not a single step
2. Photography and videography settings are in same shooting bank.
3. Custom settings for photography/ videos in custom banks.
4. Using Bank A as scratch pad in both shooting and custom banks. Banks B to D as read only settings in shooting and custom banks.
5. Shooting bank names- bank B is wildlife, bank C is macro/ flash and bank D is street/ portrait. These are read only. Set comprehensively only once for genre.
6. Custom bank names- bank B is custom wildlife, bank C is custom macro/ flash and bank D is custom street/ portrait. These are read only, set comprehensively only once for genre.
7. Say at beginning of day, am going to shoot macro, follow two step process. Step 1. Copy shooting bank C to A and set current bank as A, Step 2. copy custom bank C to A. Set current bank as A. Adjust shutter speed, aperture per field conditions. Any changes I made will be saved to bank A in shooting and custom banks. Complete macro session.
8. Say, next session am shooting wildlife- step 1. copy shooting bank B to A and set current bank to A. Step2. Copy custom bank B to A and set current bank as A. When I switch between genres, based on field conditions adjust settings like shooting mode ( manual/ aperture), shutter speed, aperture etc.
9. Say you’re a wildlife action shooter, in your shooting bank B set your shutter speed to 1/3200 etc and am a portrait shooter in my bank B set shutter speed to 1/640. So both us have different starting points and customise buttons to suit our style of shooting.
10. Saved settings bin fiie to CF express card. So it’s to load then in field if required. Update settings when firmware gets updated.
Above has been working extremely well for last 6 months. After using extensively for last 6 months, found Nikon’s banks implementation is not bad after all. Just that we expect different things from it.
Last edited:
Cool on the Z6 and Z7. I shoot Canon now and haven't looked too closely at Z cameras for the past couple years. My last Nikon was D500. If Nikon were to produce a Z mount mirrorless heir to the D500 I could be tempted to return to the Nikon fold.
Thanks for the update on that. Appreciate learning.
Jeff
Robert.Panick
Member
I found that suggestion from a couple of videos/articles. The issue with it is you can't go quickly from landscape to wildlife using it.
BTW, here's a suggestion, get a small SD card to store settings to. The Z8 automatically does the save/load to/from the Primary card. If you pop out the CFE, the SD automatically becomes the save/load card. In theory I could keep a set of banks/controls on a card, and just swap out the cards. This is however a clumsy workaround to a design flaw.
Webbie!
Active member
I’ll throw my 2¢ in about Banks vs U1,2,3 … I have no idea why Nikon doesn’t implement a hybrid system with the Z8 where there could be U1 thru U9 (there’s no physical dial) that pair different Photo & Custom Banks. Release speed and exposure compensation are “universal” settings on the Z8, meaning they don’t change when switching between Shooting Banks, and I really wish they would be Bank specific.
As far as how to make Banks work for me, I use the Fn3 button to switch between Shooting Banks, and the first iMenu item (top left) is to switch the Custom Banks.
I highly recommend @marler1957 suggestion to watch Hudson Henry’s video and read Steve’s books. I also strongly recommend using a spreadsheet, whether it is Steve’s or one you create, to help navigate which settings you’re assigning to the different banks.
Then, create your system of banks, and copy the settings file to the SD card as a backup. When you need to "reset" to your original settings out in the field, pop the CF card out, then the Load Menu settings will grab the settings file off the SD card.
As far as how to make Banks work for me, I use the Fn3 button to switch between Shooting Banks, and the first iMenu item (top left) is to switch the Custom Banks.
I highly recommend @marler1957 suggestion to watch Hudson Henry’s video and read Steve’s books. I also strongly recommend using a spreadsheet, whether it is Steve’s or one you create, to help navigate which settings you’re assigning to the different banks.
Then, create your system of banks, and copy the settings file to the SD card as a backup. When you need to "reset" to your original settings out in the field, pop the CF card out, then the Load Menu settings will grab the settings file off the SD card.
I prefer the banks over the user settings. I have a Z9 with the banks and a Z6iii and Z50ii with the user settings. I don't like the user settings because I shoot a lot of events where settings might change significantly from the start to the end of the event. If I am in a user setting mode and turn the camera off for any reason then turn it back on the user settings will reset unless I take the time to save them before I turn the camera off. I prefer the banks because that issue doesn't exist. If my settings have changes since the start of an event and I turn the camera off during a break then turn it back on the settings are the most recent.
With 4 banks for shooting and 4 banks for custom settings there are actually 16 possible settings combinations. What I would like to see happen is for Nikon to disconnect the photo and video settings banks. It would be helpful to be able to change a video shooting bank without changing the photo shooting bank. I believe this was in the prerelease version of FW 5.0 for the Z9 but didn't make it to the production version. If you watch some of the videos of the Z9 FW 5.0 release they demonstrate this feature but it isn't in FW 5.
I have two shooting banks (A, B) and two custom settings banks (A, B) that I use a lot. When I want to try something new, I copy the used banks to unused banks. If what I am trying doesn't work then I just revert back to the original banks. If I like the new settings I copy them back to A and B.
I think the real advancement in being able to manage multiple configurations is when there is a good cell phone app that allows you to easily manage camera configurations and upload them quickly.
With 4 banks for shooting and 4 banks for custom settings there are actually 16 possible settings combinations. What I would like to see happen is for Nikon to disconnect the photo and video settings banks. It would be helpful to be able to change a video shooting bank without changing the photo shooting bank. I believe this was in the prerelease version of FW 5.0 for the Z9 but didn't make it to the production version. If you watch some of the videos of the Z9 FW 5.0 release they demonstrate this feature but it isn't in FW 5.
I have two shooting banks (A, B) and two custom settings banks (A, B) that I use a lot. When I want to try something new, I copy the used banks to unused banks. If what I am trying doesn't work then I just revert back to the original banks. If I like the new settings I copy them back to A and B.
I think the real advancement in being able to manage multiple configurations is when there is a good cell phone app that allows you to easily manage camera configurations and upload them quickly.
Kumarsnaveen
Member
Usually, lenses and attachments that we use for different genres are different. Landscape needs filters, macro needs flash and diffuser etc. So changing genres is lot more involved than just changing settings alone. So it’s been working well so far.
Not saying Nikon’s implementation is good or can’t be better. If it’s one odd photo with a zoom lens say landscape while in wildlife genre, we can just change few settings like subject detection and exposure settings to get a photo.
Robert.Panick
Member
Olympus has an option where you choose if you want the user settings to be static or dynamic, which lets the end user decide how they want to do it. Another option, don't turn off the camera, simply let it go to sleep. While asleep they don't use much power and it comes back exactly where you left it.
Not turning the camera off is an option, but at times I shoot in situations where the camera is configured and performing very well in an environment when I might have to pack the camera into my bag for a two hour break. I just prefer turning the camera off.
I do like the idea of giving the option of static or dynamic banks, but I really hope they disconnect the photo and video banks and create some type of app to manage camera settings.
groob
Active member
I just ignore the banks. I have AA with SD mapped to the shutter button, 3D mapped to the BBF button, and single point mapped to a Fn button. I then just change the subject detection mode in the i menu based on what I’m shooting and adjust my exposure manually. Haven’t run into a situation yet that required something more.
Dave - thanks, but I fully understand how Banks work. I don't think I should have to save a copy of my banks, and then reload them every time I want to return to my base setup. That is at best a slow, clumsy work around.
Just my opinion, but I find the Banks as currently implemented to be more trouble than they are worth.
Johan Schmidt
Well-known member
Would be fantastic if Nikon implemented the C1,C2, C3 type setting switches to top end cameras as they do with Z6iii, D750 etc
Robert.Panick
Member
Actually I'm greedy, I want Banks but implemented better, where EVERYTHING is remembered, then I want a dozen or more of them
fcotterill
Well-known member
Video settings very definitely need their own banks.
The Z9 update is possibly going to launch an overdue overhaul of the Banks, as well as fine-combing and updating the menu organization: including moving lost items into more appropriate categories.
For example the Photo main menu has become very broad in scope.
A Capture main menu, including all Focus settings, might work better as a stand alone Main menu of settings
Some of the switches to confirm settings and submenu choices also need a rethink (eg I don't think I'm the only user who finds saving/confirming the RSF settings in the submenu to be counter intuitive).
Thom Hogan's Z9 review has more details about this Lost Cheese challenge.
The Z9 update is possibly going to launch an overdue overhaul of the Banks, as well as fine-combing and updating the menu organization: including moving lost items into more appropriate categories.
For example the Photo main menu has become very broad in scope.
A Capture main menu, including all Focus settings, might work better as a stand alone Main menu of settings
Some of the switches to confirm settings and submenu choices also need a rethink (eg I don't think I'm the only user who finds saving/confirming the RSF settings in the submenu to be counter intuitive).
Thom Hogan's Z9 review has more details about this Lost Cheese challenge.
mathjak107
Active member
i like the banks now that i am used to using them .
by combining the banks with the recall hold feature i dont miss the old u1 u2 etc .
if i am shooting birds and want a quick landscape, i push one button to call up the recall shooting feature and have that set for landscape.
instantly i am in a whole other set up
by combining the banks with the recall hold feature i dont miss the old u1 u2 etc .
if i am shooting birds and want a quick landscape, i push one button to call up the recall shooting feature and have that set for landscape.
instantly i am in a whole other set up
Anjin San
Well-known member
Banks have always been the way they are…as have user modes. While there are differences in what settings are remembered depending on model…the key difference is that banks are not static (they remember the last thing you did) and user modes are (they go back to what was saved on selection or power on). Nothing wrong with either approach though. It would be nice to have more banks, and nice to be able to name/save multiple settings files…but we can’t have them…it could be a space limitation or a how the menus are arranged limitation or just a we’ve always done it that way limitation. One just has to learn and seal with whatever your model uses…and it is unlikely that Nikon or any other vendor will ‘fix’ the problem they don’t think exists.
Johan Schmidt
Well-known member
Yes, but the C1 type setting was a baseline for settings and not updated as you changed things - you had to save the settings to change the baseline settings. I wish my Z9 had that