Nikons killing it

[sh1209]

Sometimes you gotta give credit where credits due. I am mostly referring to firmware updates, especially with the Z9. I own the Sony A1, which is going on three years since its release and still hasn’t made it to version 2.0 with firmware. The Nikon Z9 has been out less than a year and a half and it’s on version 4.0, as well as added many useful features. I cannot think of a single thing that has been added to the A1 since owning it for a year and a half lol. The real kicker is the auto focus was better on version 1.2 than it is on the current version. I hope that someone at Sony wakes up from their siesta and sees how Nikon is giving them a beat down right now in their flagship body. Having said that, the A1 is an incredible camera but it still chaps my A?? That I had to go out and buy another $3800 body just to do focus stacking which has better autofocus as well as more features than the flagship body lol. Just a rant as well as commending Nikon lol.

 

[DavidT]

I don’t see it this way at all. I don’t buy a car and hope they do updates to make it work correctly or a computer and hope they add features or updates to make it work the way it should have. I don’t buy a refrigerator that won’t stay cool hoping they do updates so it works like competitor refrigerators.

I can’t think of anything in life I buy that I don’t buy for its capabilities when I purchase it and not for a hope and a prayer it gets better with updates.

Nikon has done a ton of updates to the Z9 but that’s because they released it a year or more before it was actually ready to be released. They did this because they were so far behind and they had to stop the bleeding.

As you know I also shoot the a1 and after over two years it still is at the top of the game. Sure it hasn’t had any mind blowing advancements because frankly it was great on day one.

I don’t recall any of my prior Nikons getting any significant updates that advanced the capabilities in the cameras. It’s because they released at a slower pace and the camera on launch date was what you expected it to be.

I’m glad that after a year Nikon is providing updates so the camera can live up to its flagship status. I know a lot of people who were very disappointed in their new Z9 for awhile but I don’t know a single person who bought the a1 and was disappointed in the cameras ability to focus track, lock up etc.

I think Nikon has unfortunately set a precedence to its users that when they buy a future body it’s going to get all kinds of updates to evolve the camera. I don’t see them doing that unless they continue to sell you cameras that aren’t ready for prime time.

One final thought. It amazes me that people are content with spending that kind of money on a camera that isn’t ready for release. If they dropped a lens at that price point that couldn’t find focus or had to have updates to work properly or be on focus people would be pissed. But for the camera they don’t seem to care.

 

[sh1209]

I don’t see it this way at all. I don’t buy a car and hope they do updates to make it work correctly or a computer and hope they add features or updates to make it work the way it should have. I don’t buy a refrigerator that won’t stay cool hoping they do updates so it works like competitor refrigerators.

I can’t think of anything in life I buy that I don’t buy for its capabilities when I purchase it and not for a hope and a prayer it gets better with updates.

Nikon has done a ton of updates to the Z9 but that’s because they released it a year or more before it was actually ready to be released. They did this because they were so far behind and they had to stop the bleeding.

As you know I also shoot the a1 and after over two years it still is at the top of the game. Sure it hasn’t had any mind blowing advancements because frankly it was great on day one.

I don’t recall any of my prior Nikons getting any significant updates that advanced the capabilities in the cameras. It’s because they released at a slower pace and the camera on launch date was what you expected it to be.

I’m glad that after a year Nikon is providing updates so the camera can live up to its flagship status. I know a lot of people who were very disappointed in their new Z9 for awhile but I don’t know a single person who bought the a1 and was disappointed in the cameras ability to focus track, lock up etc.

I think Nikon has unfortunately set a precedence to its users that when they buy a future body it’s going to get all kinds of updates to evolve the camera. I don’t see them doing that unless they continue to sell you cameras that aren’t ready for prime time.

One final thought. It amazes me that people are content with spending that kind of money on a camera that isn’t ready for release. If they dropped a lens at that price point that couldn’t find focus or had to have updates to work properly or be on focus people would be pissed. But for the camera they don’t seem to care.

You would certainly be in a minority of folks that didn’t think the auto focus was better on version 1.2 than the current version. I realize I didn’t buy a camera that did focus stacking but it is absolutely pathetic that a $6500 camera don’t do in Camera Focus bracketing. I also realize that the A7RV is a newer camera but nonetheless has many more features than the flagship body. I don’t by any means dislike my A1 but there needs to be some autofocus tweaks delivered via firmware and especially needs subject tracking in video. These are two areas the camera could easily be improved with firmware.

 

[BLev65]

I actually disagree with DavidT's sentiment. The perception that the Z9 was "not ready for release" is a false statement. The Z9 version 1.x was and continues to be a very good camera. It was the best Nikon camera at the time of release, was significantly faster to use than either the Z6/Z7 bodies, and had significant build and functional improvements. Because the Z9 v1.x did not AF as accurately under ALL the situations that the A1 could does not mean that the camera was not ready for release. For Nikon shooters who did not want to leave the Nikon ecosystem, the Z9 v1.x was the camera we wanted and needed at the time.

Nikon deserves credit for continuous improvement and extending firmware beyond bug fixes. Continuous improvement is a virtue not a failing. I want my doctors, lawyers, teachers, auto repair professionals and so-on to continually improve with experience. I suggest that Nikon software engineers had the same mindset... develop an upgradeable platform and build in improvements as professionals make suggestions.

At some point the Z9's architecture will hit its limit, until it does so, I hope that Nikon does not sit tight on what they have and look to continually improve this already outstanding camera.

cheers,
bruce

 

[sh1209]

I actually disagree with DavidT's sentiment. The perception that the Z9 was "not ready for release" is a false statement. The Z9 version 1.x was and continues to be a very good camera. It was the best Nikon camera at the time of release, was significantly faster to use than either the Z6/Z7 bodies, and had significant build and functional improvements. Because the Z9 v1.x did not AF as accurately under ALL the situations that the A1 could does not mean that the camera was not ready for release. For Nikon shooters who did not want to leave the Nikon ecosystem, the Z9 v1.x was the camera we wanted and needed at the time.

Nikon deserves credit for continuous improvement and extending firmware beyond bug fixes. Continuous improvement is a virtue not a failing. I want my doctors, lawyers, teachers, auto repair professionals and so-on to continually improve with experience. I suggest that Nikon software engineers had the same mindset... develop an upgradeable platform and build in improvements as professionals make suggestions.

At some point the Z9's architecture will hit its limit, until it does so, I hope that Nikon does not sit tight on what they have and look to continually improve this already outstanding camera.

cheers,
bruce

I agree, and even though I’m not a nikon shooter anymore, their lens development as far as wildlife photography puts others to shame at this point.

 

[John Navitsky]

One final thought. It amazes me that people are content with spending that kind of money on a camera that isn’t ready for release. If they dropped a lens at that price point that couldn’t find focus or had to have updates to work properly or be on focus people would be pissed. But for the camera they don’t seem to care.

no, i bought it based on it’s capabilities at launch time. and i trialed the a1 as well. the updates are just icing on the cake

 

[sh1209]

I’m hoping this will spur other companies, such as Sony and Canon to get with the program and start providing some meaningful updates to their current cameras

 

[DavidT]

You would certainly be in a minority of folks that didn’t think the auto focus was better on version 1.2 than the current version. I realize I didn’t buy a camera that did focus stacking but it is absolutely pathetic that a $6500 camera don’t do in Camera Focus bracketing. I also realize that the A7RV is a newer camera but nonetheless has many more features than the flagship body. I don’t by any means dislike my A1 but there needs to be some autofocus tweaks delivered via firmware and especially needs subject tracking in video. These are two areas the camera could easily be improved with firmware.

Yeah I’ve never experienced the af getting worse. You’ll see an a9III later this year and then an a1MK2 after that. These cameras will be more advanced than anything on the market. I’d also expect canon to drop an r5mk2 and the R1 that’s going to make anything Z look obsolete. That’s the price you pay for being late to the party. Canon and Sony got there first and will more than likely stay at the top.

 

[DRwyoming]

Folks, speaking as a moderator let's not let this go down a brand bashing path. There are pros and cons to all the brands and products out there as well as their release strategies but per forum rules let's not turn this into bashing any particular brand of equipment.

Thanks,
-Dave

 

[John Navitsky]

I’m hoping this will spur other companies, such as Sony and Canon to get with the program and start providing some meaningful updates to their current cameras

i have to wonder if one reason they haven’t done so thus far is there are technical limitations with their current cameras that prevent it. if so i would imagine they probably would address that with the next generation

 

[sh1209]

Folks, speaking as a moderator let's not let this go down a brand bashing path. There are pros and cons to all the brands and products out there as well as their release strategies but per forum rules let's not turn this into bashing any particular brand of equipment.

Thanks,
-Dave

I’m not sure what you’re talking about I’m complementing nikon how old earth is that brand bashing?

 

[sh1209]

Hell, I’m bashing my own brand. LOL.

 

[DavidT]

I’m hoping this will spur other companies, such as Sony and Canon to get with the program and start providing some meaningful updates to their current cameras

They won’t they will launch next generation cameras that will be better than anything software can do to upgrade.

 

[DRwyoming]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about I’m complementing nikon how old earth is that brand bashing?

Not directed at you in particular, just a friendly warning to the forum in general as these threads have gone sideways a number of times in the past and it could just as easily turn into bashing another brand, not necessarily Nikon. Everything stays civil and it's fine but we had a lot of issues with similar threads a while back so just reminding folks not to go there.

 

[DavidT]

i have to wonder if one reason they haven’t done so thus far is there are technical limitations with their current cameras that prevent it. if so i would imagine they probably would address that with the next generation

Bingo. Next Gen bodies are coming. For canon the r6mk2 is a peak, for Sony it’s the a7R5 so for canon it will be an r5mk2 and the R1 and for Sony it’s a new a9 and a1. Summer Olympics are coming. Canon and Sony will both have new hardware out.

 

[gdecamp]

Nikon was still playing catch up to Sony A1 so they needed a home run. I think they got it for sure after using it this morning! Anyway, both awesome systems so we are all lucky to have whatever we have!

 

[sh1209]

Bingo. Next Gen bodies are coming. For canon the r6mk2 is a peak, for Sony it’s the a7R5 so for canon it will be an r5mk2 and the R1 and for Sony it’s a new a9 and a1. Summer Olympics are coming. Canon and Sony will both have new hardware out.

There’s no way on the face of this earth that you can sit there with a straight face and tell me Sony cannot add in camera focus bracketing to a camera as capable of the A1 you surely can’t be serious.

 

[sh1209]

Anyhow, back on trac here, I am truly genuinely giving Nikon a pat on the back, and I think it’s great the way they are supporting their cameras I honestly want all camera companies to succeed to harbor innovation.

 

[DavidT]

There’s no way on the face of this earth that you can sit there with a straight face and tell me Sony cannot add in camera focus bracketing to a camera as capable of the A1 you surely can’t be serious.

They could but they don’t need to. If that upgrade comes it will come in a new body. You have to remember they offer a lot of different bodies. Each has its target market. Bloggers, cinema, action, high MP for commercial and landscape. The a1 is an action camera so in the way Sony views things lets focus that on speed. Focus bracketing isn’t used by an action photographer. Keep in mind the AP for example buys the a1 and a7r4 now I’d assume the a7R5. They kit their photographers based on assignments.

Should the a1 have these features? Yeah I’d like them but I’m not the focus of development for the bigger base they sell to. Do I suspect the next flagship to incorporate some of these wanted features? Yes if they want me to buy anything new.

Look at the Canon R3 it doesn’t do a lot of these non action features but it does things that no other camera does. Camera companies who have a breath of options don’t typically try and build all the features into one camera but focus the abilities of that camera to its intended audience.

 

[sh1209]

They could but they don’t need to. If that upgrade comes it will come in a new body. You have to remember they offer a lot of different bodies. Each has its target market. Bloggers, cinema, action, high MP for commercial and landscape. The a1 is an action camera so in the way Sony views things lets focus that on speed. Focus bracketing isn’t used by an action photographer. Keep in mind the AP for example buys the a1 and a7r4 now I’d assume the a7R5. They kit their photographers based on assignments.

Should the a1 have these features? Yeah I’d like them but I’m not the focus of development for the bigger base they sell to. Do I suspect the next flagship to incorporate some of these wanted features? Yes if they want me to buy anything new.

Look at the Canon R3 it doesn’t do a lot of these non action features but it does things that no other camera does. Camera companies who have a breath of options don’t typically try and build all the features into one camera but focus the abilities of that camera to its intended audience.

Well, I can tell you for sure they won’t be getting my money for a mark two version! The A7RV is honestly the best camera in Sonys lineup for 90% of the shooters out there and imo is better than the A1 in every area other than sensor readout speed. I can say that very comfortably because I shoot with both of these cameras seven days a week literally a few hours a day. This is the reason eBay is swamped with used A1 bodies right now and the reason it took me almost 5 months to sell my second A1 body at a very discounted price. Again, I still love my A1 but I don’t think I camera in the price range of the R5 shut out do the flagship in most areas, and it certainly does.

 

[SoCalRick]

I don’t see it this way at all. I don’t buy a car and hope they do updates to make it work correctly or a computer and hope they add features or updates to make it work the way it should have. I don’t buy a refrigerator that won’t stay cool hoping they do updates so it works like competitor refrigerators.

I take it you don't own a Tesla. jk

I 100% agree with you regarding the way you phrased your comment, e.g., I don't buy something that is deficient, and then hope the vendor fixes it later to make it acceptable. However, I would phrase it differently, and change "correctly" in your statement to "better", to better characterize what is happening by way of these updates.

I look forward to getting "over the air" updates to my car which often enhance it's capabilities or performance (although sometimes Big Brother makes Elon take something away, or neuter the car in some way by limiting something that it previously had). The same thing is true with my cameras. Sure, they work great as they are, but if Nikon develops updates to make them perform better, then yes, I'm all over that!

I know there is probably an argument to make about the rush to market that the Z9 might have experienced, when additional capabilities might have been "baked in" to the camera, if they had delayed the release longer. But we are well past that stage now, and at the time, i think I would have chosen to have the camera sooner, rather than later with a couple of more changes made. Nikon already knows they can push out updates to the camera at later dates.

I don't think this business practice is any different than what Apple does with their iPhones. How many critical iOS updates get released for your phone post-purchase? In many of these cases, We get feature updates this way, but quite often the vendor is making the product more secure, often based on exploits that didn't exist at the time of manufacture. So are they making it "work correctly", or just improving the product based on what they know now, and given the opportunity to enhance the software?

So I embrace the fact that vendors make the effort to develop and push out these post-purchase updates. My car is not "locked-in" to the configuration it had when I first purchased it, and neither are my cameras.

 

[sh1209]

I take it you don't own a Tesla. jk

I 100% agree with you regarding the way you phrased your comment, e.g., I don't buy something that is deficient, and then hope the vendor fixes it later to make it acceptable. However, I would phrase it differently, and change "correctly" in your statement to "better", to better characterize what is happening by way of these updates.

I look forward to getting "over the air" updates to my car which often enhance it's capabilities or performance (although sometimes big brother makes Elon take something away, or neuter it). The same thing is true with my cameras. Sure, they work great as they are, but if Nikon develops updates to make them perform better, then yes, I'm all over that!

I know there is probably an argument to make about the rush to market that the Z9 might have experienced, when additional capabilities might have been "baked in" to the camera, if they had delayed the release longer. But we are well past that stage now, and at the time, i think I would have chosen to have the camera sooner, rather than later.

I don't think this business practice is any different than what Apple does with their iPhones. How many critical iOS updates get released for your phone post-purchase? In many of these cases, We get feature updates this way, but quite often the vendor is making the product more secure, often based on exploits that didn't exist at the time of manufacture. So are they making it "work correctly", or just improving the product based on what they know now, and given the opportunity to enhance the software?

So I embrace the fact that vendors make the effort to push out these post-purchase updates. My car is not "locked-in" to the configuration it had when I first purchased it, and neither is my camera.

Very well said, and I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[gdecamp]

Yep these cameras are computers and computers always get updated

 

[DavidT]

Well, I can tell you for sure they won’t be getting my money for a mark two version! The A7RV is honestly the best camera in Sonys lineup for 90% of the shooters out there and imo is better than the A1 in every area other than sensor readout speed. I can say that very comfortably because I shoot with both of these cameras seven days a week literally a few hours a day. This is the reason eBay is swamped with used A1 bodies right now and the reason it took me almost 5 months to sell my second A1 body at a very discounted price. Again, I still love my A1 but I don’t think I camera in the price range of the R5 shut out do the flagship in most areas, and it certainly does.

Yeah it’s a good camera. Now imagine the next a1 doing all those things at the a1 speed. It will be the new measuring stick. I don’t want a camera that can only do 4-10 fps. It doesn’t fit what I shoot the majority of the time. I’m happy with what I have been considering adding medium format to my gear which is a lot of things but fast isn’t one of them.

When looking at the Sony line the a1 is still the only camera I have any interest in owning. In canon it would be the R3 but prefer a little more MP and for Nikon the only one I’d consider is the Z9. So yeah I like fast cameras but it fits what I shoot most of the time.

 

[sh1209]

Yeah it’s a good camera. Now imagine the next a1 doing all those things at the a1 speed. It will be the new measuring stick. I don’t want a camera that can only do 4-10 fps. It doesn’t fit what I shoot the majority of the time. I’m happy with what I have been considering adding medium format to my gear which is a lot of things but fast isn’t one of them.

When looking at the Sony line the a1 is still the only camera I have any interest in owning. In canon it would be the R3 but prefer a little more MP and for Nikon the only one I’d consider is the Z9. So yeah I like fast cameras but it fits what I shoot most of the time.

Yeah, I mean we all have different needs like me for example, I’ll probably only shoot birds in flight 5% of the total images I take so I camera like the A1 I’ll be at very capable doesn’t get used to its maximum potential by a shooter like myself. My favorite, two genres of photography is macro/small birds, pretty much a neck and neck tie. So a body like the A7RV ticks all the boxes the majority of the time but it’s nice to have the capability of the A1 whenever needed.