Yeah not sure. They could be limited by chips or sensors or any other part. I know my company has run out of product that we haven’t in over 70 years. It’s crazy times!
Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread
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Darwin
Well-known member
In a five day work week that’s a total of ~155 cameras a day. There is no way that that number is correct.
That’s still a 4 second burst though…and I can’t really recall shooting longer than that very many times…thee are always breaks in the action to let the buffer clear.
wild-pics
Member
Some testing:
www.nikonzone.com
Review Nikon Z 9 (updated with results NX Studio 1.1.0!) - NikonZone
Unique review with RAW results and dynamic range test and pictures made with the camera by the reviewer. 'The Z 9 doesn't track, it leads'.
www.nikonzone.com
FB101
Well-known member
The D4 and D4s sold 100k units combined over their full life time, D3 and D3s about 160k so 40k unit per year with the likely ability to ramp it up if needed is probably not so far off. This may also be temporarily limited by supply chain issues.
The biggest challenge will be clearing the initial backlog if it is a year long...
FB101
Well-known member
In bordeaux you can buy preharvest if you think the quality of the grapes will be good and it takes 2 to 3 years for that wine to be delivered depending on the chateau. Some big names you can only buy that way. It’s nice to be in such high demand
could well be. I have no idea how many of the D3 / D4 sold. Just 40K units a year sounded kind of light to me.
FB101
Well-known member
Actually, everybody talks about a D3 moment. The D3 and D3s sold 160k copies over 4.5 years - Nikon’s best sales record ever for a flagship and that’s just around 35k units per year. Maybe the Z9 will do better because of all the pent-up demand but for a company as conservative as Nikon planning on matching the best they have ever done is not unrealistic.
Wow!!!!
FB101
Well-known member
You will laugh but I didn’t have my glasses on so I read wine order instead of wire. To my defense the characters are small on my iPadI wish it was was wine.
This is on the battery and battery life..Matt Granger
fcotterill
Well-known member
Precisely. In so many cases of uncertainty about Nikon's products, we are fortunate to have the Photosynthesis database.
And, based on serial numbers, Roland's data estimate the minimum sales of the flagships of note in the peak years of DSLR production, which are :
D3 2000001 < 2000984 - 2096541 >
D3x 2000001 < 2000741 - 2067104 >
D3s 5000001 < 5000711 - 5032052 >
D4 2000001 < 2000193 - 2068402 >
3000001 < 3008006 > USA?
D4s 2000001 < 2000998 - 2041692 >
And, based on serial numbers, Roland's data estimate the minimum sales of the flagships of note in the peak years of DSLR production, which are :
D3 2000001 < 2000984 - 2096541 >
D3x 2000001 < 2000741 - 2067104 >
D3s 5000001 < 5000711 - 5032052 >
D4 2000001 < 2000193 - 2068402 >
3000001 < 3008006 > USA?
D4s 2000001 < 2000998 - 2041692 >
fcotterill
Well-known member
A stimulating read, Thanks.
It's also being discussed here
I think the conclusions are correct that the Z9 creates a Paradigm Shift in Photography, even though this bold statement is based only on what's been released so far.
Wrt IQ, It will be interesting to see Bill Claff's results, of the Z9 sensor performance which we can expect to see on PhotonstoPhotos.
".... it creates a D3-moment because it does everything a mirrorless pro camera should do in such a way that it creates new possibilities. But it does more. It brings deep learning to a new level, the level where that camera not only can recognize subjects if you tell the camera to do so but can do so on its own. That’s a paradigm shift."
"The Nikon Z 9 is the first camera that really autofocuses. Other cameras can focus for you, but you first have to tell them what it is you want them to focus on. The new Nikon does that for you – if you wish. It’s the first camera that uses artificial intelligence in such a way that the photographer really can concentrate on the scene. It doesn’t make the photographer superfluous. Maybe even on the contrary.
Because the camera can take so many pictures in just a few moments, you need a photographer who is able to see what makes a great picture even more than before. That person has to pick the right position, the right lens, and of course the decisive moment. But then the camera that sees and thinks much faster than the photographer, will capture it. It’s the moment not only mirrorless, but photography gets mature. The Z 9 marks the beginning of a new era. This beginning is the Z 9-moment."
It's also being discussed here
I think the conclusions are correct that the Z9 creates a Paradigm Shift in Photography, even though this bold statement is based only on what's been released so far.
Wrt IQ, It will be interesting to see Bill Claff's results, of the Z9 sensor performance which we can expect to see on PhotonstoPhotos.
".... it creates a D3-moment because it does everything a mirrorless pro camera should do in such a way that it creates new possibilities. But it does more. It brings deep learning to a new level, the level where that camera not only can recognize subjects if you tell the camera to do so but can do so on its own. That’s a paradigm shift."
"The Nikon Z 9 is the first camera that really autofocuses. Other cameras can focus for you, but you first have to tell them what it is you want them to focus on. The new Nikon does that for you – if you wish. It’s the first camera that uses artificial intelligence in such a way that the photographer really can concentrate on the scene. It doesn’t make the photographer superfluous. Maybe even on the contrary.
Because the camera can take so many pictures in just a few moments, you need a photographer who is able to see what makes a great picture even more than before. That person has to pick the right position, the right lens, and of course the decisive moment. But then the camera that sees and thinks much faster than the photographer, will capture it. It’s the moment not only mirrorless, but photography gets mature. The Z 9 marks the beginning of a new era. This beginning is the Z 9-moment."
Some testing:
Review Nikon Z 9 (updated with results NX Studio 1.1.0!) - NikonZone
Unique review with RAW results and dynamic range test and pictures made with the camera by the reviewer. 'The Z 9 doesn't track, it leads'.
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According to Thoms he posted this about the new charger
- New Can the MH-33 charge all EN-EL18 type batteries? According to Nikon, no. It can charge the EN-EL18B, EN-EL18C, and EN-18D batteries only. It will not charge an EN-EL18 or EN-EL18A battery.
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StefanSC
Well-known member
Oh yes, I remember the launch of the A6400. It was a paradigm shift... it was the first time Sony openly allowed the influencer to show how they were wined and dined for good reviews... I still remember how all the clips started with the influencers in the bus patting eachother's back
arcticfocus
Member
The paradigm shift started with the original a9 which was announced in April of 2017 (almost two years before the a6400). The a9 II, a1, R3 (forthcoming R1) and Z9 wouldn’t be here without it. It marked the end of the performance dSLR.
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arcticfocus
Member
Yes. The original a9 had the 24 MP full frame stacked sensor, blackout free 3.69 dot EVF @ 120 FPS, 20 FPS RAW, 1/32000 shutter speed, eye af that began to change the game (with real time tracking coming in a firmware update in April of 2019), etc. It’s been 4 and a half years since then…
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Electronic shutter 'is certainly an 'exciting' new feature in the Z9, but there's more to consider in the very high frame rates and especially the breakthrough advances in the autofocus. This is embodied in the 3D Tracking with universal Object Recognition.
The ability of the Z9 to recognize objects automatically and simultaneously has profound implications in changing how photographers work in the true sense of the art. In a Live Discussion earlier week (link etc above in this thread) [after ~32:00 ], Thom Hogan emphasized how the AF is structured to work hierarchically.
Moreover, judging from preliminary evidence of images and EVF footage it is already clear that if 3D tracking cannot find Eyes, then it reverts "up" to Heads; then "up" to larger Bodies/Torsos.... When this AF mode is activated, it's always tracking shapes. Nevertheless, it's not as yet at all clear how Nikon has actually implemented this hierarchical shape recognition are not at all clear.
It is also very clear this AI empowered merging of 3D Tracking with Object Recognition works very reliably, seeing how it very quickly grabs on to any subject - among a diverse range of active subjects: i.e humans, animals (including fishes), birds and vehicles! And the Z9 tracks vehicles analogously to how it classifies human and animals hierarchically thus Vehicles > Cockpits > Front-of-a-Vehicle, down to smallest high contrast objects, namely helmets, headlights.
As with Joe McNally and other highly experienced Pro's, with high frame fps and truly Flicker free EVF (freed from conflicting against demands of high frame rates etc) TH concludes the Z9 new auto/3D AI tracking frees up photographers to concentrate on optimal image faming, composition etc.. Bottom line.... there are all considered (and compared so) not a lot of limits to the Z9.
The ability of the Z9 to recognize objects automatically and simultaneously has profound implications in changing how photographers work in the true sense of the art. In a Live Discussion earlier week (link etc above in this thread) [after ~32:00 ], Thom Hogan emphasized how the AF is structured to work hierarchically.
Moreover, judging from preliminary evidence of images and EVF footage it is already clear that if 3D tracking cannot find Eyes, then it reverts "up" to Heads; then "up" to larger Bodies/Torsos.... When this AF mode is activated, it's always tracking shapes. Nevertheless, it's not as yet at all clear how Nikon has actually implemented this hierarchical shape recognition are not at all clear.
It is also very clear this AI empowered merging of 3D Tracking with Object Recognition works very reliably, seeing how it very quickly grabs on to any subject - among a diverse range of active subjects: i.e humans, animals (including fishes), birds and vehicles! And the Z9 tracks vehicles analogously to how it classifies human and animals hierarchically thus Vehicles > Cockpits > Front-of-a-Vehicle, down to smallest high contrast objects, namely helmets, headlights.
As with Joe McNally and other highly experienced Pro's, with high frame fps and truly Flicker free EVF (freed from conflicting against demands of high frame rates etc) TH concludes the Z9 new auto/3D AI tracking frees up photographers to concentrate on optimal image faming, composition etc.. Bottom line.... there are all considered (and compared so) not a lot of limits to the Z9.
Hate to rain on Hogans parade but other cameras have been doing this for years. It’s just Nikon finally has one that does it well. Joe is an awesome photographer but also a Nikon ambassador so of course anytime Nikon does something new it’s amazing blah blah. This is why Steve is held in such high regard. He actually uses gear by all the brands, heavily invest in lenses to be fair with each system. Who else has a Nikon, Canon and Sony 600F4 with their latest bodies to compare and contrast? He’s the only one I’m aware of. He did a video on the a1 that it’s the best camera he’s ever used for wildlife. Will he say that about the Z9? Possibly but it’s going to take him time to use it and not just make claims from spec sheets and a day of use.
Bottom line is the Z9 is a huge advancement for Nikon and they have taken their own spin on a pro mirrorless body which is to be expected. Nikon, welcome to 2019.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
I see your points. The D3 refined and improved features that had already been introduced in earlier cameras, the differences lay not in the details but the overall impact on how photographers could now work, and particularly when and where. This was due to major advances in sensor performance and the AF. The Z9 is listed as introducing similar advances, and it is the Autofocus that is really standing out, as is the fully OVF-quality EVF (zero blackout with no overloading from competing data streams).
Conversely, we are likely to see the impacts of the fully electronic shutter to less obvious impacts on actual users, at least for photographers already familiar with recent stacked-sensor cameras. What is new going forward, will be how the Z9 impacts across the ILC industry, which will leave behind mechanical shutters. Ultimately, it is argued here the Z9 will impact analogously to impacts of the D1 - the demise of film SLRs thereafter....
What some read as over-confident commentaries by TH and now by Dré de Man, I'm confident the detailed field tests will vindicate their first takes and predictions about how photographers will use the combined improvements in EVF and very high frame rates with the first 3D tracking that works reliably. These appraisals are based on highly experienced Pros, who include Joe McNally and Michelle Valberg.
"It’s the first camera that uses artificial intelligence in such a way that the photographer really can concentrate on the scene.... It’s the moment not only mirrorless, but photography gets mature. The Z 9 marks the beginning of a new era." (Dré de Man, link above). The combination of AI empowered merging of 3D Tracking with Object Recognition are industry terms, but their context is correct. Independently of toggling modes etc, the AF gets on with tracking the [erratic] subject.
Anyway the truth will out either way - when we get more empirical results etc
Conversely, we are likely to see the impacts of the fully electronic shutter to less obvious impacts on actual users, at least for photographers already familiar with recent stacked-sensor cameras. What is new going forward, will be how the Z9 impacts across the ILC industry, which will leave behind mechanical shutters. Ultimately, it is argued here the Z9 will impact analogously to impacts of the D1 - the demise of film SLRs thereafter....
What some read as over-confident commentaries by TH and now by Dré de Man, I'm confident the detailed field tests will vindicate their first takes and predictions about how photographers will use the combined improvements in EVF and very high frame rates with the first 3D tracking that works reliably. These appraisals are based on highly experienced Pros, who include Joe McNally and Michelle Valberg.
"It’s the first camera that uses artificial intelligence in such a way that the photographer really can concentrate on the scene.... It’s the moment not only mirrorless, but photography gets mature. The Z 9 marks the beginning of a new era." (Dré de Man, link above). The combination of AI empowered merging of 3D Tracking with Object Recognition are industry terms, but their context is correct. Independently of toggling modes etc, the AF gets on with tracking the [erratic] subject
Anyway the truth will out either way - when we get more empirical results etc
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While Nikon has taken their path with AF what does it really do that Canon and Sony aren’t doing? Nikon has their own names and marketing behind their design but it isn’t doing anything the other brands aren’t doing. Canon has the ability to track the eye of the photographer no one else does that I’m aware of. So where is Thom singing the praises for Canon? Sure I’d like my bodies to find an eye and not have to switch between bird, animal or eye but what happens if all 3 are in the same image? At some point automation can get in the way. It’s the same reason most don’t shoot in program mode. When he says that it looks for the eye and if it can’t find it looks for the head and if it can’t find that goes for the body I lol since every other camera does the same thing. All I can assume fromI see your points. The D3 refined and improved features that had already been introduced in earlier cameras, the differences lay in the details. These enabled major advances in performance in the sensor and AF particularly. Z9 does similar but it is the Autofocus that is really standing out, with the fully OVF-quality EVF (zero blackout with no overloading from competing data streams).
Conversely, we are likely to see the impacts of the fully electronic shutter to have less profile - for photographers at least. This is because going forward, it's going to impact far more across the ILC industry, which will leave behind mechanical shutters. So the Z9 will impact analogously to impacts of the D1 - the demise of film SLRs thereafter....
What some read as over-confident commentaries by TH and now by Dré de Man, I'm confident the detailed field tests will vindicate their first take and predictions about how photographers will use the combined improvements in EVF and very high frame rates with the first 3D tracking that works reliably. These appraisals are based on highly experienced Pros including Joe McNally and Michelle Valberg. "It’s the first camera that uses artificial intelligence in such a way that the photographer really can concentrate on the scene.... It’s the moment not only mirrorless, but photography gets mature. The Z 9 marks the beginning of a new era. " The combination of AI empowered merging of 3D Tracking with Object Recognition is industry jargon, but it is correct. The AF gets on with tracking the subject without toggling subject modes etc.
Anyway the truth will out either way - when we get more empirical results etc
His comments is he hasn’t used anyone else’s cameras for the last few years now and especially over the last year. Technology is advancing quickly and until you have experienced it you really don’t get how it changes you as a photographer when using it for action. The Z9 isn’t the first to harvest this technology but it is the first Nikon to presumably do it well.
Does this mean there are no Human,Animal,Bird toggle etc& there is only one AF area mode for all situations ie.static & moving sunjects
This video from Nikon Canada shows a number of menu choices. Check at around 14 minutes in. With subject detection, you can choose auto (which I think covers all the subjects it can do), people, animals, vehicles or off. So if you are photographing animals, you can set for that and avoid the camera choosing a person or vehicle that happens to be in the frame. I don’t see that it allows a choice between birds and other animals. Firmware?
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
I think the way it works is you can move between eyes/subjects using the direction pad. The camera automatically detects multiple eyes/ subjects in the frame let's say if there is a dog, a human and a car and then it automatically selects the subject and also allows an override in auto subject mode...theres also an option to manually select the subject type like humans or animals or car etc.just like how the other brands work now. I think I heard this in one of the discussions hosted by Chris Ogonek but not 100% sure in which discussion.
fcotterill
Well-known member
From what these reliable reports are saying over the past 10 days - Yes in 3D tracking that is. Also the other modes, and the AF search zone can be delimited within a Wide box etc. Custom Group AF modes (similar to the D6) are to be added in future firmware, which will may also include Auto or 3D tracking as options.
this is a novel advance not to have to toggle between Subjects ie if a bird suddenly flies up when photographing a mammal, for example, the AF switches instantly to grab on to the new subject without having to change AF mode(s) manually.
this is a novel advance not to have to toggle between Subjects ie if a bird suddenly flies up when photographing a mammal, for example, the AF switches instantly to grab on to the new subject without having to change AF mode(s) manually.
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