Interesting given the weather they had that they did not have a rain cover on the Z9 and lens or the other Z camera used for video. Must be pretty good weathersealing.
Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread
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John Navitsky
Well-known member
If you look back through his videos you’ll see this is how he rolls, even prior to the Z9
John Navitsky
Well-known member
Here’s the tidbits that are making me wonder if HE* is actually mathematically lossless, just with better compression.
From the tico raw web site. This makes me think their raw compression is available in lossless as well as lossy versions:
The following implies it’s not almost as good, but as good as uncompressed raw. Maybe not super clear, but it’s got me wondering.
From the tico raw web site. This makes me think their raw compression is available in lossless as well as lossy versions:
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
The following implies it’s not almost as good, but as good as uncompressed raw. Maybe not super clear, but it’s got me wondering.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Regarding the new RAW formats in the Z9, they are developed by a company called "intoPix". This, I believe, is the website regarding their RAW format:
intoPIX TicoRAW | RAW Bayer CFA Sensor Compression (IP cores & SDK)
TicoRAW is an innovative, lossless quality, low-power, low-memory and line-based image processing and CFA compression technology created to unleash image sensor CFA raw dataflows. TicoRAW is extremely low-power and tiny in ASIC or FPGA, fast in CPU and GPU, and suitable for cameras and sensors...www.intopix.com
It looks like it's a lossless RAW format, whilst being similarly sized to a JPEG file. It will be interesting to see how big/small of a difference there is between the lossless compressed setting and the High Efficiency star setting, as current videos on the Z9 currently show how the 'HE' formats significantly boost the buffer depth.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
random thought, anyone want to bet if the sensor protective shutter is there because the z tc adapers have that sticky-outy bit ?! 
eaj101
Well-known member
According to Michelle Valberg and the Nikon rep on the presentation I saw it's there to let you change lenses more easily in bad conditions. I hadn't considered it, but for video apparently having gunk suddenly appear in for frame particularly isn't goodrandom thought, anyone want to bet if the sensor protective shutter is there because the z tc adapers have that sticky-outy bit ?!
(you can disable it)
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, i know that’s the narrative that’s been prevalent, but if there’s enough crap in the air to get on the sensor, then it’s enough that’ll still be in your mirror(less) box. ie, changing lenses in these conditions should still be counter indicated. and you should still be able to clean the sensor, but actual contact with a hard object is going to be a trip back to nikon repair
eaj101
Well-known member
Michelle Valberg did a webinar today (11/7) with Paul’s Camera on her experiences shooting wildlife with both the Z9 and the Z 100-400 (at different times). I know they recorded it but I can’t find any link to the video. She had a number of interesting observations. I took some notes, and here are the highlights I captured (I missed many).
Z9:
100-400:
Humorous comment: The Nikon rep present said, ‘our engineers are really proud of their blur.’
Z9:
- She got no manual ahead of time and only a few minutes of briefing, but ‘it just works like a Nikon. It was easy.’
- Used 3D tracking almost all the time. “Magical’. Deer, birds, muskrat, raccoons through screens of bushes and branches and the camera just found the eye, even black eyes on black fur or feathers. Followed everything.
- Shot a lot with the Z9 + FTZ + TC20 + 500PF. (f11) No problems with focus, even early morning. Handheld, from a kayak. Sharp.
- She shoots completely manual, fixed ISO, uses live exposure to set exposure. She was regularly shooting ISOs at 8000 to 10000. The images looked great. (‘3200 was as high I (Michelle) would go on the D850. 10000 looked fine on the Z9’). One shot was ISO 16000, 1/160, f11, handheld, from a kayak. No noise I could see.
- Several shots at 1/6400. Razor sharp hummingbirds. She wondered what she could do at 1/32000 Z9 max),
- Several shots with 85mm f1.4 wide open nailed eye focus exactly.
- Dynamic range and ISOs seemed to be better than the D850 and Z7.
- The sensor shield made her not afraid to change lenses in the kayak in bad weather.
- High frame rate helped in rain/driving snow getting images with drops in the wrong places.
100-400:
- ‘Really sharp. Really good blur.’
- Shots with 2x TC were hard to distinguish from those without.
- Surprisingly light and small, same range as 70-200 f2.8.
- ‘I don’t use 1.4 TCs. I figure if I need a TC I’ll go all the way.’
Humorous comment: The Nikon rep present said, ‘our engineers are really proud of their blur.’
John Navitsky
Well-known member
Rod Mar said similar. It sounds like he basically had the camera for 48 hours where he was supposed to test/provide feedback on AF for action AND shoot the action segment of the release.
fcotterill
Well-known member
The objective narrative has yet to be written of how Digital photography advanced, as the 21st century unfolded. I can think of the following main threads of camera design, with which the principal brands have iterated a sequence of technological innovations in successive models. A detailed annotated Timeline will give far more objective comparisons of life lines and innovations within each system.
These timelines are not complete, notably in many missing dates:
1. Nikon D1 and first generation building on DX, APSC sensors, and Canon caught up and overtook marketshare
2. 1st generation of FX which Nikon D3 advanced in one camera for improved lowlight IQ, and again Canon recovered quickly, and maintained marketshare
3. Panasonic and Sony established Mirrorless systems in APSC sensors, having abandoned SLR design of their cameras (earlier?)
4. Nikon 1 Mirrorless which introduced important innovations including tracking
5. First FX Mirrorless in Leica SL, overshadowed by Sony models with rapid pace of updating.
6. First Smartphones....
7. Significant advances in lowlight performance in 2016 (Nikon D5), followed by first DSLRs integrating Mirrorless features via Liveview (D500) and notably D850 (eg focustacking, silent shooting)
8. First Stacked-sensor FX in Sony a9, followed by improved speed and algorithms for automated AF tracking in a1 by 2021 including object identification modes in categories
9. In close succession later in 2018, Nikon then Canon launch their new FX Mirrorless systems, having waited out the unceasing decline of budget markets in DSLRs and Point&Shoots. Nikon waiting persisting longer to demise of budget DSLR market (as they did with film SLRs). Nikon D6 and Canon competitor released in early 2020 as most advanced DSLRs yet
10. Principal camera companies have rapidly consolidated respective FX Mirrorless systems on E, L, R and Z mounts since 2018. More advanced camera released 2020 in Canon R5. All four systems expanded respective AF systems in 2019 to include tracking of distinct categories
11. Following closely on Sony a1, Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 released in 2021....
There have parallel innovations in optics with new Mirrorless mounts, introducing novel materials (eg phase fresnel elements etc), lighter telephotos, overall excellent quality of images, refining excellent fast zooms which have had significant impacts across photography
These timelines are not complete, notably in many missing dates:
1. Nikon D1 and first generation building on DX, APSC sensors, and Canon caught up and overtook marketshare
2. 1st generation of FX which Nikon D3 advanced in one camera for improved lowlight IQ, and again Canon recovered quickly, and maintained marketshare
3. Panasonic and Sony established Mirrorless systems in APSC sensors, having abandoned SLR design of their cameras (earlier?)
4. Nikon 1 Mirrorless which introduced important innovations including tracking
5. First FX Mirrorless in Leica SL, overshadowed by Sony models with rapid pace of updating.
6. First Smartphones....
7. Significant advances in lowlight performance in 2016 (Nikon D5), followed by first DSLRs integrating Mirrorless features via Liveview (D500) and notably D850 (eg focustacking, silent shooting)
8. First Stacked-sensor FX in Sony a9, followed by improved speed and algorithms for automated AF tracking in a1 by 2021 including object identification modes in categories
9. In close succession later in 2018, Nikon then Canon launch their new FX Mirrorless systems, having waited out the unceasing decline of budget markets in DSLRs and Point&Shoots. Nikon waiting persisting longer to demise of budget DSLR market (as they did with film SLRs). Nikon D6 and Canon competitor released in early 2020 as most advanced DSLRs yet
10. Principal camera companies have rapidly consolidated respective FX Mirrorless systems on E, L, R and Z mounts since 2018. More advanced camera released 2020 in Canon R5. All four systems expanded respective AF systems in 2019 to include tracking of distinct categories
11. Following closely on Sony a1, Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 released in 2021....
There have parallel innovations in optics with new Mirrorless mounts, introducing novel materials (eg phase fresnel elements etc), lighter telephotos, overall excellent quality of images, refining excellent fast zooms which have had significant impacts across photography
sdloeffler
Member
yes, I’ve shot that lens with both the D850 and the D5. It’s superb on both!
Doug Herr
Well-known member
The Leica SL was announced in October of 2015 and at that time Sony had already been producing FX-format cameras for two years.
I've also shot the 500 pf on my D850 with great results. I'm really looking forward to trying it on the Z9 (with the 1.4 and 2 teleconverters).
fcotterill
Well-known member
Today's addition in his updating page by TH include this observation - no surprises actually
"New I'm seeing some focus near-misses in some of the sample images that are appearing. Is the focus really as good as Nikon says it is? This is always a tough one to evaluate from just published samples. A lot of the early use of a camera is to set defaults and automatic settings and see what happens. And there's little doubt that what happens is really good, though perhaps not perfect. It appears that many of the photographers with pre-launch cameras were using Auto for Subject Recognition rather than using a specific category. I've also heard that Subject Recognition performs a bit differently in Auto-area AF versus 3D-Tracking AF. This is one of the reasons why I don't judge things like focus systems until I've used a camera for quite some time, in a lot of different situations, and trying the different options. It's why I spend plenty of pages in my books going through specifics of the autofocus system and how to optimize your use of it. There hasn't been a camera yet—including the Sony A1 so many think highly of—that I can't finesse more focus performance out of by paying very close attention to settings, and maximizing those settings for the situation. I'm expecting the Z9 to be the same. I will note one thing, though, and something I want to test more carefully when my Z9 arrives. With fast aperture F-mount lenses on the FTZ, some of us have noticed on previous Z cameras that you get slightly better (early burst) results if you start a sequence with focus already (nearly) established. I'd go further and say that having established focus prior to pressing the shutter release benefits almost every camera I've used, if for no other reason than you're not asking the focus motor to make a long pull near instantly with perfect accuracy. "
"New I'm seeing some focus near-misses in some of the sample images that are appearing. Is the focus really as good as Nikon says it is? This is always a tough one to evaluate from just published samples. A lot of the early use of a camera is to set defaults and automatic settings and see what happens. And there's little doubt that what happens is really good, though perhaps not perfect. It appears that many of the photographers with pre-launch cameras were using Auto for Subject Recognition rather than using a specific category. I've also heard that Subject Recognition performs a bit differently in Auto-area AF versus 3D-Tracking AF. This is one of the reasons why I don't judge things like focus systems until I've used a camera for quite some time, in a lot of different situations, and trying the different options. It's why I spend plenty of pages in my books going through specifics of the autofocus system and how to optimize your use of it. There hasn't been a camera yet—including the Sony A1 so many think highly of—that I can't finesse more focus performance out of by paying very close attention to settings, and maximizing those settings for the situation. I'm expecting the Z9 to be the same. I will note one thing, though, and something I want to test more carefully when my Z9 arrives. With fast aperture F-mount lenses on the FTZ, some of us have noticed on previous Z cameras that you get slightly better (early burst) results if you start a sequence with focus already (nearly) established. I'd go further and say that having established focus prior to pressing the shutter release benefits almost every camera I've used, if for no other reason than you're not asking the focus motor to make a long pull near instantly with perfect accuracy. "
John Navitsky
Well-known member
I wouldn’t be surprised. Sounds like a lot of the ambassadors that shot the campaign were basically handed a camera day of shoot. Likewise a lot of reports suggest the A1 AF is infallible and my experience was that it was very good but definitely not infallible. I expect neither of these cameras will have perfect AF, but both very good. And yah, it’s going to take time to figure out how to best leverage them given a particular use case. Also, I suspect a lot of good photos in general circulation are not perfectly focused.
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Here is a link to Valberg’s presentation.Michelle Valberg did a webinar today (11/7) with Paul’s Camera on her experiences shooting wildlife with both the Z9 and the Z 100-400 (at different times). I know they recorded it but I can’t find any link to the video. She had a number of interesting observations. I took some notes, and here are the highlights I captured (I missed many).
Z9:
- She got no manual ahead of time and only a few minutes of briefing, but ‘it just works like a Nikon. It was easy.’
- Used 3D tracking almost all the time. “Magical’. Deer, birds, muskrat, raccoons through screens of bushes and branches and the camera just found the eye, even black eyes on black fur or feathers. Followed everything.
- Shot a lot with the Z9 + FTZ + TC20 + 500PF. (f11) No problems with focus, even early morning. Handheld, from a kayak. Sharp.
- She shoots completely manual, fixed ISO, uses live exposure to set exposure. She was regularly shooting ISOs at 8000 to 10000. The images looked great. (‘3200 was as high I (Michelle) would go on the D850. 10000 looked fine on the Z9’). One shot was ISO 16000, 1/160, f11, handheld, from a kayak. No noise I could see.
- Several shots at 1/6400. Razor sharp hummingbirds. She wondered what she could do at 1/32000 Z9 max),
- Several shots with 85mm f1.4 wide open nailed eye focus exactly.
- Dynamic range and ISOs seemed to be better than the D850 and Z7.
- The sensor shield made her not afraid to change lenses in the kayak in bad weather.
- High frame rate helped in rain/driving snow getting images with drops in the wrong places.
100-400:
Interesting talk. I’m not a Z9 candidate, but the ability to use a TC and get results on the 100-400 convinced me to put in an order for the lens.
- ‘Really sharp. Really good blur.’
- Shots with 2x TC were hard to distinguish from those without.
- Surprisingly light and small, same range as 70-200 f2.8.
- ‘I don’t use 1.4 TCs. I figure if I need a TC I’ll go all the way.’
Humorous comment: The Nikon rep present said, ‘our engineers are really proud of their blur.’
Where or how do I get a Z 9 t-shirt?
They gave me one at a local event to introduce the Z9
John Navitsky
Well-known member
John Navitsky
Well-known member
I get the impression a lot of these folks are Nikon shooters and aren’t really paying attention to the competition much and a lot of these statements are in the context of Nikon. Ie, this camera lets me do things that no other (Nikon) camera lets me do.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing this link, I missed it as there was a powercut at the time, and it also being late evening here this side of the pond
A couple of points of interest,
20:00 more reports on TC2 with the 500 f5.6 PF
1,07...the Nikon representative emphasizes Nikon's lens designers pay as much attention to the rendering of bokeh as they do on image sharpness of recent lenses. The example is the new 100-400 S. Nikon lens designers have been stated this more and more for more than a decade, at least since their Commemorative book Eyes of Nikon (2014), referring to aims with the 35 f1,4G and especially the 58 f1.4G. (the quest began much earlier with their AI and AIS primes, notably the legendary One-Oh-Five's, The 105 f1.4E probably achieved the nearly perfect balance between excellent acuity and what the interviewees described as 3D rendering. They likely put in this big effort and emphasis into this fast portrait prime, because it's their Centenary Optic. [as Roger Cicala concluded, " The optical bench confirms very nicely what the early reviews have said: this is an exceptionally sharp lens edge-to-edge. Optically, it’s probably the best thing Nikon has put out in several years; it’s a genuinely world-class optic...". also this.
Haro Sato has been the main public face of this wrt the F mount primes, but judging from the Z Nikkor marketing, Nikon sounds like they now emphasise this 3D rendering principle which renders smooth bokeh behind the plane of focus of subjects. So there's the possibility the 100-400 S is the messenger of a key attribute of the new Z telephotos...refining the balance between acuity and bokeh. But the fast exotics will be very tough to beat, the 400 f2.8E and 800 f5.6E especially! Anyways, eneough links and historical examples of older Nikkors in a Z9 thread (!) but take a look at these interesting comparisons of the bokeh some Portrait primes.
A couple of points of interest,
20:00 more reports on TC2 with the 500 f5.6 PF
1,07...the Nikon representative emphasizes Nikon's lens designers pay as much attention to the rendering of bokeh as they do on image sharpness of recent lenses. The example is the new 100-400 S. Nikon lens designers have been stated this more and more for more than a decade, at least since their Commemorative book Eyes of Nikon (2014), referring to aims with the 35 f1,4G and especially the 58 f1.4G. (the quest began much earlier with their AI and AIS primes, notably the legendary One-Oh-Five's, The 105 f1.4E probably achieved the nearly perfect balance between excellent acuity and what the interviewees described as 3D rendering. They likely put in this big effort and emphasis into this fast portrait prime, because it's their Centenary Optic. [as Roger Cicala concluded, " The optical bench confirms very nicely what the early reviews have said: this is an exceptionally sharp lens edge-to-edge. Optically, it’s probably the best thing Nikon has put out in several years; it’s a genuinely world-class optic...". also this.
Haro Sato has been the main public face of this wrt the F mount primes, but judging from the Z Nikkor marketing, Nikon sounds like they now emphasise this 3D rendering principle which renders smooth bokeh behind the plane of focus of subjects. So there's the possibility the 100-400 S is the messenger of a key attribute of the new Z telephotos...refining the balance between acuity and bokeh. But the fast exotics will be very tough to beat, the 400 f2.8E and 800 f5.6E especially! Anyways, eneough links and historical examples of older Nikkors in a Z9 thread (!) but take a look at these interesting comparisons of the bokeh some Portrait primes.
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I faced such an issue with A1.While the camera focusses perfectly on birds even behind branches with a particular tracking AF mode it refused to focus on a bird sitting out in the open with the same mode .
After struggling for some time I changed the focus area mode & it focussed perfectly.I really got stumped
I suppose one will come to accept such quirks as part of the game.
Wrogu
Active member
Its not a1. Its mirrorrless. Just focus on the ground close to the bird on the perch and refocus on bird. I think every mirrorrless has a problem grabbing focus on a lone bird close to you if it is focused on a distant background.
Yeah.I know what you mean.How ever In this case there was no initial focus on the far ground.The bird moved from right to left by may 2 to 3 ft & was sitting in open when the focus would not work in the earlier focus mode.It did work after I changed the mode
FB101
Well-known member
Those AF issues (lock on background or no reacquisition like you describe) do exist even with the A1 and time will tell if the Z9 got those issues resolved. We have seen each camera generation get better - Z6/7 were bad, Z6/7ii improved but still fairly plagued by the issues, R5 and A9ii both much improved but not failure proof, A1 a bit better still but not 100%. We'll have to see if the R3 and Z9 have solved that problem completely or not but with the A1 it usually happens to me once or twice per half-day of shooting
Wrogu
Active member
I do not think they will. But even with small hickups mirrorrless af od superior to dslr and we should be happy with progress.
Not the best place to Ask but I am curious - anyone knows what the frequency od dslr af system was ? It had less sensors, maybe it was higher given it was an additional chip.
Not the best place to Ask but I am curious - anyone knows what the frequency od dslr af system was ? It had less sensors, maybe it was higher given it was an additional chip.