RoyC
Active member
I have long glass I can not switch yet. For everything below 100-400 it will be z glass (500 PF, 600). for everything else there will be ftz ii
Pretty much the same here I have a 180-400 and 800 that are going nowhere.
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I have long glass I can not switch yet. For everything below 100-400 it will be z glass (500 PF, 600). for everything else there will be ftz ii
I can only hope that Nikon introduces Z replacement for the 180-400 and 600. The latter with a drop in TC.Pretty much the same here I have a 180-400 and 800 that are going nowhere.
The 600 is on the roadmap so probably will hear something about it 2022. But I totally agree with you that a built in TC would be a killer feature.I can only hope that Nikon introduces Z replacement for the 180-400 and 600. The latter with a drop in TC.
I can only hope that Nikon introduces Z replacement for the 180-400 and 600. The latter with a drop in TC.
‘I see a lot if tail grabbing, body grabbing even when the head is visible - I’ll put that on the fact that the camera was probably not set up ideally for this kind of subject and they clearly don’t know what they are doing. Other videos have actually been more convincing than this one. They hardly showed any stills which is the only way to know if focus was achieved. I can’t imagine the Nikon rep who lent them the camera was too impressed with what they did with it.
Hope the 600 w/ TC comes in 2022, but I suspect not. Product announcement for the 400 w TC had a development announcement. Time in development? 3, 6, 9 months?600 is already in the roadmap so it's just a matter of few months but I have my doubts on lenses like 180-400/120-300 etc. The Z9 seems to have addressed one of the biggest concerns/ debated topics regarding Z Mount, which is the performance of F mount glass. I never thought the Z9 would all of a sudden make F mount glass work so seemlessly. That's why I feel Nikon may not prioritise launching similar focal lengths that are already in f mount ( except the most used ones like 2.8 Trinity, 400/500/600 etc.) The PF options in the new roadmap also seems to send a message that Nikon does not want over lapping lenses in both the mounts (500pf in f mount vs 400/800 in Z mount).
It depends upon the situation; many times I wake up 2 hours before the alarm goes off, and then find it impossible to go back to sleep. :(
‘A stop less DR than the Z7ii at base iso will still put the Z9 amongst some good company for landscape, just not the very best. That’s very far from disqualifying it as a landscape camera altogether.
looking at dxomark ratings that would put it at the same level as a Canon 5Dmk4 or a Sony A7Riii and better than the Sony A9 and A9ii.
‘And that one stop hasn’t been vetted on production cameras yet, so when all said an done it may be less than that, especially since that would be lagging quite a bit behind the A1 and R5 for DR which has always been a Nikon strength so I am not sure that’s the final word on it.
This might have been shared last month, or even on 28 October. This is in Japanese but it has coherent subtitles.
This young lad must be a prominent personality in Japan, because Nikon gave him a prototype for 1 month (+ a beta release of NX Studio). He is clearly experienced, with previous Nikon MILCs (since starting off a few years ago with a D90!). Interesting he found a few unfamiliar features using a Nikon pro flagship ILC for the first time: including ENEL18's and the size/weight; but he found his fear about the Z9 being too heavy to have been a storm in a yunomi.
One key conclusion of this review is the interesting point of how the Z9 demonstrates Nikon is not holding back with FX MILC specs, because they have no cinema cameras to protect from becoming obsolescent. Bottom line - it does indeed sound like the Z9 is the best video ILC yet.
As this was released on 28 Oct, we have since left key uncertainties behind us: including optimal cards, EVF performance, "which ENEL18* versions?", battery life etc etc.
The final 3 minutes are a pithy synopsis of Nikon's status and trajectory to their new status with best ever Nikkor lenses, best video in ILCs, and the best flagship ILC ever made. Finally, kudos to the reviewer who makes strenuous efforts to take such a camera out into the wild. He not only had the Z9 up on the Northern Japanese Alps, but exposed and working in extreme climes.... These landscapes are definitely a beautiful place to visit.
Yet again (as with D5 and D6) it is clear Nikon has designed the Z9 to NASA's standards. This applies particularly to no issues with overheating in hot climates nor freezing up in hypothermic conditions, from +35 C down to -20C in 20m/sec winds, when an actioncam froze (despite trying to keep it warm)...and note he was using a well worn obsolete ENEL18a at the time to power the Z9 in extreme alpine cold and for video
This might have been shared last month, or even on 28 October. This is in Japanese but it has coherent subtitles.
This young lad must be a prominent personality in Japan, because Nikon gave him a prototype for 1 month (+ a beta release of NX Studio). He is clearly experienced, with previous Nikon MILCs (since starting off a few years ago with a D90!). Interesting he found a few unfamiliar features using a Nikon pro flagship ILC for the first time: including ENEL18's and the size/weight; but he found his fear about the Z9 being too heavy to have been a storm in a yunomi.
One key conclusion of this review is the interesting point of how the Z9 demonstrates Nikon is not holding back with FX MILC specs, because they have no cinema cameras to protect from becoming obsolescent. Bottom line - it does indeed sound like the Z9 is the best video ILC yet.
As this was released on 28 Oct, we have since left key uncertainties behind us: including optimal cards, EVF performance, "which ENEL18* versions?", battery life etc etc.
The final 3 minutes are a pithy synopsis of Nikon's status and trajectory to their new status with best ever Nikkor lenses, best video in ILCs, and the best flagship ILC ever made. Finally, kudos to the reviewer who makes strenuous efforts to take such a camera out into the wild. He not only had the Z9 up on the Northern Japanese Alps, but exposed and working in extreme climes.... These landscapes are definitely a beautiful place to visit.
Yet again (as with D5 and D6) it is clear Nikon has designed the Z9 to NASA's standards. This applies particularly to no issues with overheating in hot climates nor freezing up in hypothermic conditions, from +35 C down to -20C in 20m/sec winds, when an actioncam froze (despite trying to keep it warm)...and note he was using a well worn obsolete ENEL18a at the time to power the Z9 in extreme alpine cold and for video
The 1-stop lower dynamic range performance is not a problem for me as it is still close to the best (A7 iii 14.7 ETC. ) & much better than Canon R6 (13.4) A9 (13.3). which is terrible IMO. (SourceXO Mark)
What concerns me is the ISO performance on the Z9.
Canon R6 is wrongly mentioned on the main page I guess.
View attachment 28711
Hence i said a few days ago that IMO its logical there will be a super high ISO lower res King released by someone if not Nikon once the Z9 flow has filled the pipeline.
Its inevitable by manufactures choice that one camera will not do it all. Sony has the A1 and A9 A 7 Nikon has the D850 D6............its a fair assumption.........now there is also some Nikon propaganda that HI ISO is possibly a thing of low priority going forward and they will not need to focus on that in the future..........could it be that 8k video and 120 fps is the foundation to start building the path of migration to get stills from video, it seems the way the industry is creeping to.
At what point will the Video component out weigh still photography as a component in a camera...........i mean IMO Video has seen a bigger growth in the past few years than stills.
The new technology emerging IMO will also see 80mp to 100mp landscape version arise at some point in time..........i smell Canon is working on that ? Sony is at 61mp already ?
Now don't get me wrong i am not saying there is anything wrong with the Z9, The Z9 is excellent, its basically a D850 Z7II on steroids with a new focusing system, great speed, new sensor, good video......and that fills a huge THIRSTY market.
Is the Z9 No 1 only from what i have seen and read its close to Sony and Canon which is awesome and i cant wait to get my Z9.
Nikon products are always under rated at launch............they do have teh best image files.
There are new options/technology emerging all the time, the Z9 is real a welcome one.........for now...........
What do i think of the eye tracking face tracking focus recognition and all that regardless of brand, be it Sony Canon or Nikon, from what i read see and hear, excellent, if not some what over cooked by marketing. Good one Madeleine Kay.....LOL
Only and opinion..........
Yeah it remains to be seen what direction companies take.
Canon has a dedicated low light performer in R3 though. It is Canon's 1st BSI sensor & is rated the best camera for low light performance by DXO mark. A7 iii held that title previously, & having used the A7 iii, I can trust their opinion on the R3.
The high resolution SOny cameras (A7 r iii & A7 R iv) seem to have better ISO performance than the Z7 ii, while the Canon has a dedicated low light performer in R3. Z6 ii performs well in low light but its AF is not great & it has that stupid AA filter. The A7 iii & iv & R6/R5 etc does not have one, I have mo idea why Nikon bothered with a heavy AA filter on the Z6. Hope Nikon comes up with a 33mp low light beast with Z9 AF.
Yeah it remains to be seen what direction companies take.
Canon has a dedicated low light performer in R3 though. It is Canon's 1st BSI sensor & is rated the best camera for low light performance by DXO mark. A7 iii held that title previously, & having used the A7 iii, I can trust their opinion on the R3.
The high resolution SOny cameras (A7 r iii & A7 R iv) seem to have better ISO performance than the Z7 ii, while the Canon has a dedicated low light performer in R3. Z6 ii performs well in low light but its AF is not great & it has that stupid AA filter. The A7 iii & iv & R6/R5 etc does not have one, I have mo idea why Nikon bothered with a heavy AA filter on the Z6. Hope Nikon comes up with a 33mp low light beast with Z9 AF.
Having or not having an AA filter depends on the target audience for a particular camera. A lot of us (wildlife, macro, landscape) prefer not having an AA filter which is why Nikon has cameras like the Z7/9, D850 etc. There are folks who find moiré a deal breaker and for them not having an AA filter maybe a deal breaker.
Z9 uses Hybrid phase-detection/Contrast AF. I think the 3D mode also uses additional details like colors, patterns etc. in addition to hybrid phase detect.
Independent testing of 3D Tracking by Thom Hogan of the D5 revealed this mode uses colour information on chosen target. D6 probably works in similar ways but it also uses eye-tracking.
It's unclear if the Z9 is making use of colour patterns for its 3D tracking but this is not unlikely. We know enough so far that the shape recognition modes use a nested system of deep-learning algorithms to classify subjects hierarchically. This seems to be almost entirely on geometry: body > head/helmet > eyes/headlights.
The eye tracking works on marble statues and birds with uniform plumage eg crows, and so basically plumage of similar tones to the eyes. Examples of this ability also include mallard drakes. This implies the eye-recognition is using mostly if not entirely trained pattern recognition algorithms.
There seems to have been some confusion related to this contrast statement. My guess is the following:
Remember that there are two tasks here: selecting what to focus on, and focusing on it. The "does not use contrast but colour" seems to be related to focus point selection, where it doesn't use contrast in the selection algorithm, but instead patterns. This is why in the first teaser (if people remember it), it was focusing on the model's eyes even with the extra white dots.
Once focus point is selected, there's the task of actual focusing. Given that the hybrid PD and contrast detect algorithm was working well, it could be that this is left unchanged, with maybe there relative weight of the two bring changed (and is pure PD in AF-C, as before). Pattern and colour for focusing is not useful, as far as I know.
My 2c...
Remember that there are two tasks here: selecting what to focus on, and focusing on it. The "does not use contrast but colour" seems to be related to focus point selection, where it doesn't use contrast in the selection algorithm, but instead patterns. This is why in the first teaser (if people remember it), it was focusing on the model's eyes even with the extra white dots.
Once focus point is selected, there's the task of actual focusing. Given that the hybrid PD and contrast detect algorithm was working well, it could be that this is left unchanged, with maybe there relative weight of the two bring changed (and is pure PD in AF-C, as before). Pattern and colour for focusing is not useful, as far as I know.
"Remember that there are two tasks here: selecting what to focus on, and focusing on it."
In 3D tracking, the shooter manually decides what to focus on doesn't he/she? Remember I am talking about 3 D tracking alone & not 3D tracking with subject detection switched on.
Then once any random thing is selected, you are saying that the AF uses colour profiles to identify it...
Well, if we are manually selecting a random subject why does it need a colour profile recognition to identify it if it is not going to use colour profiling to track it.
Then you opine that the actual tracking from here on depends on phase detect & contrast detect & that using colour to track is not something you have never heard off before...
I have no clue about that. It will be nice to hear about such things from a Nikon technician.
Exactly, 2 tasks.... the Z9 is running multiple analyses in parallel on a moving subject: shape/pattern recognition to identify the head or helmet, or eyes or headlights etc, and at the same time it is keeping sharp focus on this selected target on the subject.
AI and DeepLearning are distinctly different. AI refers to an open system which improves its skillset based on new experiences, including new patterns it encounters that have taught its neural networks. DeepLearning - aka machinelearning - is the research/tech that encodes a decision-making algorithm into a device (eg Camera firmware) which in the the case of the Z9 comprises its finite repertoire of shape recognition modes. It is clear Nikon engineers structured this AF mode to use a nested system of deep-learning algorithms to classify subjects hierarchically.
Similarly to the DSLRs, D5 and D6 etc do, the Z9 may well use colour for tracking, as these 2 blokes report (above). This makes senses to detect a soccer player against background and players with different colours. However, the demonstrated examples of the Z9 with 3D tracking turned on, is this mode is tracking objects of many different colours: hence my post above arguing that pattern recognition seems to be fundamental.
Actually it's the other way around with AI being the generic term that serves as the umbrella where deep learning is a subset of what would be considered AI. Here is a pretty good article in terms that do not require a CS degree. I do have a Computer Science degree but it is from the dark ages when AI was a concept and something talked about in computer labs. (ie. late 1980's)I don't have a computer science background, I thought Deep Learning is the umbrella term for AI, Machine Learning, etc.
Actually it's the other way around with AI being the generic term that serves as the umbrella where deep learning is a subset of what would be considered AI. Here is a pretty good article in terms that do not require a CS degree. I do have a Computer Science degree but it is from the dark ages when AI was a concept and something talked about in computer labs. (ie. late 1980's)
Clearing the Confusion: AI vs Machine Learning vs Deep Learning Differences
Raise your hand if you’ve been caught in the confusion of differentiating artificial intelligence (AI) vs machine learning (ML) vs deep learning (DL)… Although the three terminologies are usually…towardsdatascience.com
I'm not hearing that at all. Brad Hill's testing of ISO and noise was pretty extensive and he considered the D850, Z7ii, and Z9 to be equal with minimal differences. He has done a comparison with a pre-production camera and firmware 1.0. It was in-depth comparing the Z6ii, Z7ii, D6 and D850 with the Z9 at all ISO levels.The information i am reading and listening to on U Tube indicates the Z9 is not a landscape camera and the Z7II is better by around a stop