It's very simple to set the camera to use only the EVF or only the LCD and eliminate any issues with your eye moving close to the EVF and then away.
Optical viewfinder vs Electronic viewfinder experiences
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Calson
Well-known member
Older EVF performance left a bit to be desired. I used the Olympus EM-1 cameras and they would auto adjust the brightness of the viewfinder display based on the ambient light level. The problem was when the sun was behind me the display brightness would change unless I could block the light around the viewfinder. I have not had this problem with the Z9 camera and would expect that the newest OM-1 camera has this better managed.
Where the EVF is incredibly useful is in very low light shooting where the boosted illumination in the viewfinder makes it easy to compose a shot and to see in real time how the EV exposure adjustment is going to affect the image before one has tripped the shutter.
Where the EVF is incredibly useful is in very low light shooting where the boosted illumination in the viewfinder makes it easy to compose a shot and to see in real time how the EV exposure adjustment is going to affect the image before one has tripped the shutter.
The only difference I have noticed between the EVF (on a Z7II) and the optical finder is that the colors are a little "off" on the EVF.
MikeInMI
Active member
I was nervous about the EVF when I went from my Nikon D500 to the Sony A9 II and A1. Having had the EVFs about 18 months, I'd hate to go back. (1) I like seeing what the image will look like right in the viewfinder; e.g., if I'm way underexposing or overexposing, I can see it in the viewfinder before I press the shutter button. (2) I shoot BIF at 15 frames/second. I LOVE blackout-free shooting. (3) I like that it is so much quieter. I don't shoot on silent shutter as that is unnerving, but manual shutters sound so noisy and clanky now compared to what I hear when I shoot electronic shutter. I was going to go on, but realize I am straying into things that aren't part of the EVF you asked about.
Cameranut
New member
Another old fashioned guy here I suppose. I do still prefer optical viewfinders. Although I have a Zfc that I use a lot, and manage to get along pretty well with it especially as long as nothing really quick is part of the task at hand. For most stuff it's pretty neat overall. But I am firmly convinced that my DSLR's are more responsive and quicker to lock onto focus and I'm more likely to catch the moment. I'm learning how to adapt more as I spend more time with the efv. At first on things like sitting small birds, I got a lot of shots of empty branches or of the south end of a northbound bird with wings fluttering. And I cannot get along with flying birds at all with the efv. But I recognize that the efv cameras are more designed to be used with af tracking and burst shooting which is not my mode of action. I'm more old school and use afs and single shot mode for everything even flying birds.
I realize the difference in techniques and can see the possibility of the af tracking and burst shooting making the success percentage higher, but for me making things easier is not the goal, I enjoy the challenge more than I enjoy perfection in my images. I just love to take photos more than I care about how critical the image quality is.
There is another area that I have trouble with evf's and it is when I am photographing water skiing events for my son and grandkids. Sometimes I am in the tow boat and moving at 34 mph with a slalom skiier cutting across the wake at speeds over 60mph and only 50 feet away. And in these situations the fast panning gives me the impression of smearing as I pan with the skiier plus the timing of the shot being harder with the viewfinder lag involved.
So guess I'm in the middle and can understand both sides of the discussion as I probably get higher image quality overall from my mirrorless, but also most shots are more deliberate with my mirrorless, but I enjoy the optical view and responsiveness of the optical viewfinder more.
Hopefully some can understand that some of us that like and actually prefer optical viewfinders are not really haters of mirrorless, and often use them also. All of my small cameras are mirrorless and I have used them for years and years, I just don't try to replace one type camera with another, I use different types for different situations.
Have fun with your cameras - that's what it's about.
I realize the difference in techniques and can see the possibility of the af tracking and burst shooting making the success percentage higher, but for me making things easier is not the goal, I enjoy the challenge more than I enjoy perfection in my images. I just love to take photos more than I care about how critical the image quality is.
There is another area that I have trouble with evf's and it is when I am photographing water skiing events for my son and grandkids. Sometimes I am in the tow boat and moving at 34 mph with a slalom skiier cutting across the wake at speeds over 60mph and only 50 feet away. And in these situations the fast panning gives me the impression of smearing as I pan with the skiier plus the timing of the shot being harder with the viewfinder lag involved.
So guess I'm in the middle and can understand both sides of the discussion as I probably get higher image quality overall from my mirrorless, but also most shots are more deliberate with my mirrorless, but I enjoy the optical view and responsiveness of the optical viewfinder more.
Hopefully some can understand that some of us that like and actually prefer optical viewfinders are not really haters of mirrorless, and often use them also. All of my small cameras are mirrorless and I have used them for years and years, I just don't try to replace one type camera with another, I use different types for different situations.
Have fun with your cameras - that's what it's about.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Well-known member
It's hard to separate the technical from the internal / metaphysical because the modern EVF in some situations can satisfy the soul in ways an OVF can't, such as modifications of gain and EVF processing to make you 'see' the scene better in some lower-light scenarios, which helps you conceive and compose in ways you can't with an OVF (where you would be "shooting in the dark", as it were).
EVFs used to be subpar. Now they are much better, but are still not the same as OVFs. So you look at the pros and cons and weigh how / what that means to you personally. For your kind of preferred photography, you may not realize the advantages the modern EVF gives you. That's fine.
Chris
EVFs used to be subpar. Now they are much better, but are still not the same as OVFs. So you look at the pros and cons and weigh how / what that means to you personally. For your kind of preferred photography, you may not realize the advantages the modern EVF gives you. That's fine.
Chris
Calson
Well-known member
There is a decided advantage in low light situations to being able to preview the shot and adjust the exposure as compared to an optical viewfinder where I would take a shot and then look at the image (chimp) and then adjust the EV or the ISO before taking another shot.
Being able to use a very high ISO is of little real value if the image is poorly composed or out of focus and in many situations manual focusing is better than autofocus for a picture as the photographer can be selective.
Being able to use a very high ISO is of little real value if the image is poorly composed or out of focus and in many situations manual focusing is better than autofocus for a picture as the photographer can be selective.
BCDan
Member
I say get your hands on a different Z9 to try. I think you'll find a very pleasing EVF.
Roy
Well-known member
Many Bird/wildlife shooters seem to be going back to DSLRs and the D6 is one of the best.Hi everyone, first post here. I got into photography with a FM2, and then an 8008s. Went Canon in the mid-90s because of AF and sort of dropped out of photography in the mid-2000’s (never went digital).
So I’m back in the hobby and got myself a D6 and a 1Dx III, apparently right as DSLRs are going obsolete. Great timing!
Looking at doing some BIF photography. Anyway…enough about me.
I am wondering how people transitioned from OVF to EVF. Before I bought a DSLR I briefly checked out either a Sony A1 or one step down at Best Buy (of all places) and it was ok. Best EVF that I had seen, but I hadn’t seen many, and I didn’t really like it. This was about a year ago.
Fast forward to last week and I had a chance to peer through a Z9. Yeesh! All flickery. No idea about the Canon R3. But it doesn’t matter the brand, you’re still looking at a tiny TV monitor.
I get the advantages of an EVF with looking at exposure right through the viewfinder, no blackout, higher fps, silent, etc. etc but man, I stare at a computer screen all day long.
Looking at real life through an OVF just gets the hair standing up on the back of my neck and puts me in the moment.
And my Leica M10-P places me even closer into whatever “scene” I’m in. Rangefinder manual focusing is the bomb.
I don’t plan on ever making a dime at this and the actual images are sorta secondary to me being in some sort of zen trance lol. I also occasionally shoot at night (not birds, obv) and don’t know if EVFs mess one’s adaptive night vision up.
In short, EVFs make me feel like I’m using a camcorder and making a crappy (but funny) home movie with my high-school buddies. Not like I ever did that
To be clear, I’m not asking about the results (photos) or how you feel about them. And of course I want sharp pics. But I’m not sure at what cost to the overall experience?
I’m asking about how the OVF/EVF adds to/subtracts from the experience while you actually take the shot (and very soon after).
How have you (or haven’t you) made the OVF/EVF transition?
P.S. Heck, I could ask this same sort of question about AF vs MF. Manual focusing an old Nikkor during a football game is a sublime experience when you do it right.
There could be something wrong with me but I still enjoy using my D850 and D5 over my Z9 ...
As I posted earlier, I also enjoy my D850's (though my Sony A74 that I use for the 200-600 lens is growing on me). However I doubt that many wildlife shooters are going back to DSLR. I don't know any and I have not come across any on the forums.Many Bird/wildlife shooters seem to be going back to DSLRs and the D6 is one of the best.
There could be something wrong with me but I still enjoy using my D850 and D5 over my Z9 ...
As noted by others I have my Z9 EV at 120fps and I find it far more useful and not at all flickery. I like having a live histogram and the ability to see what my EV changes etc. are doing real time.
My last DSLR's were D500, D850 and a D6.
For me I would hate to go back to my old DSLR view finders I even prefer the viewfinder on my wife's Z6II and Z50 until it comes to birds in flight.
My last DSLR's were D500, D850 and a D6.
For me I would hate to go back to my old DSLR view finders I even prefer the viewfinder on my wife's Z6II and Z50 until it comes to birds in flight.
The OP is taking about the internal feeling. I thing I have an easy solution, Shoot with both eyes open!
Any Apache helicopter pilots around?
Any Apache helicopter pilots around?
JamesFarrell
Former Member
This whole thread sounds like a cloned DPreview classic.
RikWriter
Well-known member
EVF is the best thing that ever happened to me photography wise. It's totally WYSIWYG, which means I can tell if I have the exposure or ISO wrong before I take the shot and adjust immediately.Hi everyone, first post here. I got into photography with a FM2, and then an 8008s. Went Canon in the mid-90s because of AF and sort of dropped out of photography in the mid-2000’s (never went digital).
So I’m back in the hobby and got myself a D6 and a 1Dx III, apparently right as DSLRs are going obsolete. Great timing!
Looking at doing some BIF photography. Anyway…enough about me.
I am wondering how people transitioned from OVF to EVF. Before I bought a DSLR I briefly checked out either a Sony A1 or one step down at Best Buy (of all places) and it was ok. Best EVF that I had seen, but I hadn’t seen many, and I didn’t really like it. This was about a year ago.
Fast forward to last week and I had a chance to peer through a Z9. Yeesh! All flickery. No idea about the Canon R3. But it doesn’t matter the brand, you’re still looking at a tiny TV monitor.
I get the advantages of an EVF with looking at exposure right through the viewfinder, no blackout, higher fps, silent, etc. etc but man, I stare at a computer screen all day long.
Looking at real life through an OVF just gets the hair standing up on the back of my neck and puts me in the moment.
And my Leica M10-P places me even closer into whatever “scene” I’m in. Rangefinder manual focusing is the bomb.
I don’t plan on ever making a dime at this and the actual images are sorta secondary to me being in some sort of zen trance lol. I also occasionally shoot at night (not birds, obv) and don’t know if EVFs mess one’s adaptive night vision up.
In short, EVFs make me feel like I’m using a camcorder and making a crappy (but funny) home movie with my high-school buddies. Not like I ever did that
To be clear, I’m not asking about the results (photos) or how you feel about them. And of course I want sharp pics. But I’m not sure at what cost to the overall experience?
I’m asking about how the OVF/EVF adds to/subtracts from the experience while you actually take the shot (and very soon after).
How have you (or haven’t you) made the OVF/EVF transition?
P.S. Heck, I could ask this same sort of question about AF vs MF. Manual focusing an old Nikkor during a football game is a sublime experience when you do it right.
The first EVF I owned was the Z6 and if not shooting moving subjects I didn’t mind it but once things started moving I hated it.
I now shoot Sony a1’s and enjoy them a lot! At 60FPS it’s like looking through my own eyes it’s stunning. At 120FPS it’s very good and appealing for moving subjects. At 240FPS it’s not bad. At times when in continues AF it will get an odd pixelization but doesn’t impact the image file just how the screen is reproducing what it’s seeing. It’s a small price to pay for a screen that has no lag. I have been using 120 more often now since the batteries last significantly longer.
I shot a Z9 a couple of times and didn’t notice anything negative about the EVF.
I now shoot Sony a1’s and enjoy them a lot! At 60FPS it’s like looking through my own eyes it’s stunning. At 120FPS it’s very good and appealing for moving subjects. At 240FPS it’s not bad. At times when in continues AF it will get an odd pixelization but doesn’t impact the image file just how the screen is reproducing what it’s seeing. It’s a small price to pay for a screen that has no lag. I have been using 120 more often now since the batteries last significantly longer.
I shot a Z9 a couple of times and didn’t notice anything negative about the EVF.
I actually have always shot with both eyes open. I do with guns as well. Some people struggle with it but it works for me.
I soot at 20 f/s and like the flicker (not a blackout) as opposed to 25 f/s with no flicker
I was in my local camera shop today and on a whim took a look at all the rentals (not just the Z9, like before): R3, Z9, A1.
The Z9’s finder was again initially flickery, then the flickers went away after a bit of viewing. Image is grainy compared to the two others. R3’s finder was ok, but the body was sublime. I thought the A1’s finder was very nice, best of the bunch, and the thing is tiny. I could see how the lack of weight would really help hand-holding BIF.
So I rented it plus a 200-600 (they don't rent the 600mm f4) and headed out to my local bird spot.
I am sure I didn’t even have it set up correctly, but I managed to turn on bird eye detect. And I got an ospery diving, snatching a perch, and then munching on it at the top of a dead tree. Wow! First time for that, for me. Been at this hobby for, like, four days. Images are a bit grainy and small as the action was a bit far away.
Pardon any crap technical issues as guess what? I do believe I’m having a retina detachment (and my OS can’t install any app that can open Sony raw files, so these were just edited jpgs).
Tonight I suddenly had a “shadow” appear in the bottom of my right eye’s vision. Surgeon wants me in the office tomorrow. So this might be the last you hear from me for a while!
I do note that, despite the excitement and satisfaction of getting some correctly focused action, afterwards I did feel like I almost wasn’t there, like I watched it on TV or something. Strange feeling.
I blame mirrorless for the eye problem.
A little gallows humor.
Not joking, however, about the detachment. Wish me luck!
The Z9’s finder was again initially flickery, then the flickers went away after a bit of viewing. Image is grainy compared to the two others. R3’s finder was ok, but the body was sublime. I thought the A1’s finder was very nice, best of the bunch, and the thing is tiny. I could see how the lack of weight would really help hand-holding BIF.
So I rented it plus a 200-600 (they don't rent the 600mm f4) and headed out to my local bird spot.
I am sure I didn’t even have it set up correctly, but I managed to turn on bird eye detect. And I got an ospery diving, snatching a perch, and then munching on it at the top of a dead tree. Wow! First time for that, for me. Been at this hobby for, like, four days. Images are a bit grainy and small as the action was a bit far away.
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You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Pardon any crap technical issues as guess what? I do believe I’m having a retina detachment (and my OS can’t install any app that can open Sony raw files, so these were just edited jpgs).
Tonight I suddenly had a “shadow” appear in the bottom of my right eye’s vision. Surgeon wants me in the office tomorrow. So this might be the last you hear from me for a while!
I do note that, despite the excitement and satisfaction of getting some correctly focused action, afterwards I did feel like I almost wasn’t there, like I watched it on TV or something. Strange feeling.
I blame mirrorless for the eye problem.
A little gallows humor.
Not joking, however, about the detachment. Wish me luck!
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BlackRockArt
Well-known member
Nice shots ! I love ospreys, these birds are photogenic and fun to shoot.
I hope it's nothing serious, & doctor will check out.
With EVF, you can also darken or brignten the view finder brightness, to me, that's heaven-send. I often dial down the screen brightness as needed, with my age, I am protecting the precious eye-sight for the future years.
Oliver
Cameranut
New member
Do not hesitate to get the retina fixed IMMEDIATELY. Been there and done that, and through some crazy circumstances just a few hours difference led to problems for mine. My daughter had a bad one also. Hurry up and good luck.
I'm wondering if the z9 flickery might have been the IBIS clicking in? easy test to switch the IBIS totally off if you find yourself in the camera store again.
Use whichever you prefer.
Unless shooting wide open an optical viewfinder does not show the depth of field to be recorded - though that did not prevent me using SLR's and DSLR's for about 45 years.
If you change the angle of view via focal length or cropping, or let the camera set white balance etc - what is recorded is not an "actual scene".
A plus of ML is often the viewfinder is closer to an actual scene to be recorded than an optical viewfinder.
I agree the effect originally reported indicates a problem with the original experience.
As I get older I need reading glasses to see the back monitor, but the diopter adjusts enough in the Evf the negate the need for glasses.
I know my R5 does display the DOF in the EVF with a push of the DOF preview button. Canon focuses wide open but the preview button cranks down the aperture to whatever f number is set. I don't know for Nikon. I believe Sony can be set to have fulltime dof preview.