Agree. I tried Sony years ago and found that the system was too different for me to use it
Sony 400-800 f/6.3-8 G lens coming in Feb EDIT: It's here and Steve has it!!
- Thread starter arbitrage
- Start date
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
MatthewK
Well-known member
Perfect focal range for birding, great MFD, great price, very tempting proposition.
This seems like a great birding lens, I’m curious now with Sony having the best of this type focal length, Canon having made one, if Nikon is now going to be pressured into its take on this zoom, or Tamron.
ajrmd
Well-known member
Not sure that Nikon is feeling any pressure in this arena given their excellent lens lineup. I think it's Canon who is way behind and who knows maybe Tammy will make something similar. Quite candidly, for the price, I just may pick one up and use it adapted to my Nikon in the interim while I figure out the future state of Nikon's plan for upgrading their bodies AF/features. In the interim, I'll have a fun and useful lens to play with and if I migrate over to Sony, I'll be well on my way.
I’d be very curious how well it works adapted.
For me I’d wait and see in Z9/8ii as those arent very far away to see if they leapfrog the A-1ii before switching. If Nikon chokes in that revision than it would make sense to go all in on Sony and you’d have this lens ready to go.
This lens may put a bit of pressure on Nikon to introduce a long zoom to match Sony's offering (say in a year or two) such as 360 - 800 perhaps F/9.1 to maintain a 95mm front element and keep the weight the same as the 180-600
OR
perhaps they will bite the bullet and make a 180-400 F/4 TC replacment - say 200-500 or 200-600 F/4 or F/4.5 TC. cost will be high, weight will be porky, but the lens will be super sharp. Though it would be hard to justify vs consumer grade 400-800.
OR
perhaps they will bite the bullet and make a 180-400 F/4 TC replacment - say 200-500 or 200-600 F/4 or F/4.5 TC. cost will be high, weight will be porky, but the lens will be super sharp. Though it would be hard to justify vs consumer grade 400-800.
nmerc_photos
Well-known member
You do have AF. I have never tried aperture on the lens or any of the lens controls. You do have full control of all that on the body.
The only thing you'll notice is a slight decrease in AF acquisition and locking. I found that it would sort of "focus breathe" and in a burst of shots, I'd have 80% in focus and 20% that were just a bit blurry.
I never found that to be a limiting factor, even when shooting swallows or song birds - so I never tried to optimize the settings better. Could definitely be more room for improvement out there.
What I need to know in terms of purchasing an A1-2 and this lens for non-hiking use is:
1- @ 30f/s in pre-capture, with the bird taking off from a perch and flying towards you what percent of the shots have a tack-sharp eye. (Assume that the eye is in focus when the bird is on the perch so the camera can track the eye as the bird takes off.)
2-When limiting the subject distance by either focusing on the perch or setting up limits in-camera (The OM-1 does this but not sure of A1-2), how fast does the lens AF focus on the eye when the bird enters the frame. (The bird is not in the frame when pre-capture is started so the lens must pick up the eye when the eye enters the frame and before the bird lands on the perch.)
(I saw Steve's measurements of how fast the lens cycles through the zoom zone but I don't think that necessarily applies.)
1- @ 30f/s in pre-capture, with the bird taking off from a perch and flying towards you what percent of the shots have a tack-sharp eye. (Assume that the eye is in focus when the bird is on the perch so the camera can track the eye as the bird takes off.)
2-When limiting the subject distance by either focusing on the perch or setting up limits in-camera (The OM-1 does this but not sure of A1-2), how fast does the lens AF focus on the eye when the bird enters the frame. (The bird is not in the frame when pre-capture is started so the lens must pick up the eye when the eye enters the frame and before the bird lands on the perch.)
(I saw Steve's measurements of how fast the lens cycles through the zoom zone but I don't think that necessarily applies.)
Doug Herr
Well-known member
this bird?
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
or this bird?
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Last edited:
The warbler.
arbitrage
Well-known member
I think stuff like that is much better suited for an f/2.8 lens. You create a setup that you can shoot at 300 or 400 f/2.8. Ideally a setup where you can use an A9III at 60 or 120FPS. If you can't create that sort of setup for a 24MP sensor than 30FPS on an A1II will have to do but will result in way less frames to get your perfect shot.
Doing that type of stuff with an f/8 lens is not what I would do. I don't even bother with that type of photography at f/5.6. It is f/4 or f/2.8 to have very high SS and reasonable ISO. One reason that you have to keep the ISO reasonable is to be successful in that type of photography I feel you need to frame loose and therefore you have to rely on cropping. This of course is a conundrum as ideally one would want a 50MP sensor at 60 or 120FPS and not a 24MP sensor. But crippling any attempt by using an f/8 lens isn't the best idea. Cropping into an ISO 10,000 file just to get a reasonable shutter speed because you used an f/8 lens is not going to work out often.
As to how the A1II actually tracks a bird launching towards you, I will find out over the next few days as my A1II is finally out for delivery today.
Sony's F8 and be there wildlife lens
I think with the introduction of the high-quality zooms that most manufacturers have now, we’re going to start seeing less and less big primes in the field. This is already been a trend I have noticed especially over the last 5 to 7 years. Lotta folks just don’t want to carry that weight around and the size trying to travel with and such. Not to mention, the exponential cost difference over a high-quality zoom. I think most manufacturers from this point on are going to put most of their R&D Into smaller lightweight, primes and high-quality zooms. Take the Sony 300 GM for instance, I have read where numerous people have sold their big 600 primes and switched over to this lightweight option. You can get incredible images with zooms and granted they might not be as good as a $14,000 prime in low light situations but for most folks in most situations they’re more than good enough. Just my two cents lolSony's F8 and be there wildlife lens
Last edited:
I'd have this lens on order If I was shooting Sony, Its very tempting to get one on an adapter for Nikon. The F8 thing doesn't bother me at all for the range it offers. I use Nikons 28-400 and it's F8 on the long end, but it's so versatile and compact that more than makes up for it. I'm more about getting the interesting shots with a flexible tool than a tiny difference in IQ that mostly disappears when the medium it will be viewed on is going to drastically shrink the resolution anyway.
I watched Steves video which was excellent and the lens looks fantastic.
I agree on the trend to zooms, I just watched one wildlife photographer who stopped using his 600 f4 and just takes the 180-600 instead, image quality is now getting so close on these lenses that the portability, weight, size and just versatility of the zooms is tipping the scales. His main reason was he's missed shots with the primes in dynamic situations enough to rather have slightly less IQ and get the shots.
And if we're honest how many people would know the difference between shots taken with this new Sony 400-800 vs a 600 prime at the same focal length in a blind test of prints? My guess is a very low number unless you trained them as to what to look for.
For me the reason for the primes is that they open that shooting window up more for sunrise and sunset lighting, or under dense canopy. Outside of those conditions I'd rather have the zoom lens.
Yeah, I agree. The advantages are getting few and far between to justify that kind of price because no matter what anyone says, there’s not five times improvement in image quality! With today’s editing software, the advantages are just getting slimmer by the day
Last edited:
For sure. I watched Steves side by side video on the 180-600, which I think is basically the same as Sony's 200-600, both just excellent for the price, and my take was "barely any difference" when compared with the 400 and 600 TC's when watching in 4k. For me 98% of my images will be viewed at 4k or less resolution, maybe a handful get to larger print and my experience with prints is they lower resolution compared to whats at 1:1 on screen.
My take was there's no way for me that's worth an extra 5-10k on a lens as a person who isn't a professional making a living off of photo's and needs every last drop of performance to compete with others for image sales. And to my eye an interesting composition with good lighting will trump any lens difference every single time, because we're dealing with excellent lenses here.
It's that perfect is the enemy of (very) good thing with camera lenses. We are awash with excellent glass these days with mirrorless. Even the inexpensive Chinese glass is generally pretty amazing when compared to 10 or 20 years ago's premium lenses.
arbitrage
Well-known member
I think the big surprise with this lens which makes it way more compelling than we speculated before release was the inclusion of the dual-linear AF motors.
I think this one upgrade alone will make this a superior lens to the 200-600. This in addition to the improvement in IQ at 600 and 800 make this lens a top choice if one is okay with the increased size, weight and cost over the 200-600 +/- 1.4TC.
Steve's AF speed measurements from the video for reference actually show the AF speed at 800mm on the 4-8 vs 600mm on the 2-6 to be equal but AF is mentioned in all the reviews I have now digested as a noticeable improvement over the 200-600.
I think this one upgrade alone will make this a superior lens to the 200-600. This in addition to the improvement in IQ at 600 and 800 make this lens a top choice if one is okay with the increased size, weight and cost over the 200-600 +/- 1.4TC.
Steve's AF speed measurements from the video for reference actually show the AF speed at 800mm on the 4-8 vs 600mm on the 2-6 to be equal but AF is mentioned in all the reviews I have now digested as a noticeable improvement over the 200-600.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Yeah it’s within one tenth of a second of the 600GM which is certainly impressive.
I would pick this lens over the 200-600 and over my 180-600 if it ends up working well on adapters. It's about ideal for a wildlife lens for someone like me who's just fine with the 800mm and F8 spec.
It's honestly a pretty impressive lens and I think Sony just made the highest value wildlife lens on the market today of any brand. If that A-1 drops to 4k or less than this is the highest value combo as well.
I think Nikon *has* to answer this lenses capability because these 200-600, 180-600 and now this 400-800 are what sells a lot of these cameras. And the value prospect especially sells the Nikon Z8. Sony's upped the ante.
Last edited:
RikWriter
Well-known member
I just preordered it this morning.
It's not going to replace my 600 f4, but it's definitely going to replace my 200-600.
It's not going to replace my 600 f4, but it's definitely going to replace my 200-600.
Please let me know how the A1-2 tracks @ 30 f/s with a bird moving towards you. My experience with OM Systems gear is that it is lens dependent to a great extent.
Regards,
Tom
Alistair
Well-known member
This looks like another great option added to the Sony ecosystem! Usable on Z and ZRed too!
ajrmd
Well-known member
I just watched this kid in Switzerland who spent a couple of weeks with the lens shooting video and stills. There's a disconnect between his video and stills which I attribute to the codec he was using or YT compression, though it was pretty interesting. I just placed the order as well as for a E to Z adapter. For me, it would cover 80% of my travel needs and along with a 100-400 it would be perfect.
Arbitrage,
My experience with the OM1-2 and the 300f4 is that F8 is OK and 50f/s is OK.....but.....the inability to crop very much is quite limiting.
Granted, getting F8 to look like F4 requires a lot of post processing but is doable while the inability to crop very much I did NOT fine fixable with Topaz Photo Raw resizing. (Maybe ON1 will do a better job.)
The downside of the A1-2 and R5-2 is that I found 25f/s on the OM-1 also quite limiting even with a zoom so I question if either camera is really fast enough to do better than my OM-1/150-400 f4.5 @ 50 f/s.
Maybe the A9 with a zoom fast enough to AF at 60 f/s would be better but I think not significantly enough to invest in that combo.
Regards,
Tom