Sony a9III Poor Sales Performance?

[DavidT]

I think it’s very possible Sony over priced the a9III to appeal to a broader market. I did a preorder with Adorama but canceled a few weeks ago as I further digested the value of the advantages I was going to pay $6k for and decided to pass. Now if it was priced lower it’s very possible I would have still bought it.

B&H and Adorama along with all my local camera stores have them in stock. Reflecting back on the a1 release it took months to fill preorders and was in and out of stock for over a year after release.

I suspect if some of these features such as precapture and higher frame rates make it’s way into an a1MK2 it will have similar sales performance as the original.

I think consumers have been spoiled with high performance 50MP cameras from Sony and going backwards at that price point I think is a miss for most.

 

[Rene]

For some it is for others it isnt. I have one and use it side by side with the A1. Is it expense? Yes I think it is (probably a bit too expensive) but for what I want to do (pro capture) and high frame rate it’s excellent. On this forum the bulk of participants are from USA ( i think) . Most of them do not work from blinds so a higher pixel count is important I would think as you would like to crop. The A9III doesn’t have that flexibility. I’m based in Europe and do most of my photography from blinds as do many others over here. Just check out the nr of blinds available in Europe . I can get close to my subjects and don’t need to crop much so the A9III is (for me) an excellent addition next to the A1.

 

[FB101]

The A1 is the only true generalist camera in the Sony line (at a price), all the others are a lot more specialized. if you fit the segment the A9iii was designed for, the price is actually right for the technological advancement it brings. If you are not, or not 100%, then it's tough to swallow.

The A9iii has incredible features for sports, concerts and video but the use case for wildlife and street is more limited. I can't justify it any more than David
The A7R5 is amazing for landscape but I can't make it work for wildlife or video. It's good for street photography though so that's a plus.
The A7iv wants to be a generalist but it's just shy of good on everything. At least it's priced right(er)
The A7cR felt like it was going to be the street photography winner but then they put a terrible EVF and LCD on it...

I can actually picture the Venn diagram on the wall behind the sony product managers - trying to cover 100% of the market with as little overlap as possible between models to maximize the number of bodies sold - credit to Nikon where it's due, they seem more concerned with creating cameras with a broad appeal (at a price point) than they are with segmentation (it helps to have low share, cannibilization is less of a concern )

 

[arbitrage]

It might be good to update the thread title with the word "Sales" performance as it reads like a report of poor camera performance.

 

[John Navitsky]

while we certainly have personal wants about pricing of various cameras, i suspect a big chunk of pricing is driven by mfg cost. the stacked sensor in the a1,z9,z8 probably drives a lot of the cost and the gs in the a9iii probably drives a lot of the cost

for example i think the z9 and z8 cost less because the way they designed they designed them, they are less expensive to make and thus why it’s been hard for other mfgs to meet that price point

in general if we don’t need the benefits specifically provided by that sensor the camera containing it might not be an optimal fit.

for example if you don’t really take advantage of the features of a stacked sensor, the r6ii might be a better choice than the r3

in general i think this suggests if you are not leveraging the features of the gs, the a9iii probably isn’t a good deal. the non sensor related features will come to the a1ii.

 

[DavidT]

The A1 is the only true generalist camera in the Sony line (at a price), all the others are a lot more specialized. if you fit the segment the A9iii was designed for, the price is actually right for the technological advancement it brings. If you are not, or not 100%, then it's tough to swallow.

The A9iii has incredible features for sports, concerts and video but the use case for wildlife and street is more limited. I can't justify it any more than David
The A7R5 is amazing for landscape but I can't make it work for wildlife or video. It's good for street photography though so that's a plus.
The A7iv wants to be a generalist but it's just shy of good on everything. At least it's priced right(er)
The A7cR felt like it was going to be the street photography winner but then they put a terrible EVF and LCD on it...

I can actually picture the Venn diagram on the wall behind the sony product managers - trying to cover 100% of the market with as little overlap as possible between models to maximize the number of bodies sold - credit to Nikon where it's due, they seem more concerned with creating cameras with a broad appeal (at a price point) than they are with segmentation (it helps to have low share, cannibilization is less of a concern )

100% agree.

 

[DavidT]

It might be good to update the thread title with the word "Sales" performance as it reads like a report of poor camera performance.

Good call. I updated.

 

[DavidT]

while we certainly have personal wants about pricing of various cameras, i suspect a big chunk of pricing is driven by mfg cost. the stacked sensor in the a1,z9,z8 probably drives a lot of the cost and the gs in the a9iii probably drives a lot of the cost

for example i think the z9 and z8 cost less because the way they designed they designed them, they are less expensive to make and thus why it’s been hard for other mfgs to meet that price point

in general if we don’t need the benefits specifically provided by that sensor the camera containing it might not be an optimal fit.

for example if you don’t really take advantage of the features of a stacked sensor, the r6ii might be a better choice than the r3

in general i think this suggests if you are not leveraging the features of the gs, the a9iii probably isn’t a good deal. the non sensor related features will come to the a1ii.

You’re probably right to a degree but take a Z9 and Z8. Dealer cost on a Z9 is around $2,500 and a Z8 is less than $1200. So there is a lot more margin in cameras than they want you to believe. Figure the manufacture is making a 3.5x mark up before rebates. So that would put Sony cost of around $1,700.

 

[arbitrage]

I'm sure A9III isn't selling like the A1 did. But it is hard to be sure about this by just looking at availability. A1 came out in the peak of the chip shortage and all the other supply chain/COVID mess.
It seems most new products (even from Nikon who notoriously couldn't get any good supply going) have good supply very quickly after release. Nikon 600PF is just sitting on shelves and the 500PF took some a year to get.
In 2020/2021 my friends were waiting 7-10months to get a 600GM....now they are readily in stock everywhere.

That all said, I do feel the A9III is much more specialized than the A1 and yet is priced within $500 of the A1 release price. (and at least in Canada they are selling at the same price now but you get free grip or free battery/card with an A1). The pricing held many of us back...myself included. Sony should have sold at $5K USD max...all previous A9 versions were $4500.

Still as I watch duncang on FM post sequence after sequence showing how much the A9III AF has improved over the A1 (plus all the other cool features) it is continuing to tempt me. But like yourself, I feel money is better saved to put it towards the A1II next year (or late this year).

 

[John Navitsky]

Still as I watch duncang on FM post sequence after sequence showing how much the A9III AF has improved over the A1 (plus all the other cool features) it is continuing to tempt me. But like yourself, I feel money is better saved to put it towards the A1II next year (or late this year).

i'm like 99.99999% sure that the improved AF has nothing to do with the GS and will come to the a1ii

 

[FB101]

i'm like 99.99999% sure that the improved AF has nothing to do with the GS and will come to the a1ii

That's a fair assumption and I'm counting on your being right as I keep my dollars warm for an A1ii
Honestly, they could release it tomorrow if they wanted. Take the A9iii, drop in a slightly revamped A1 sensor with a tiny bit faster readout (I can't imagine they have not made any improvements through R&D in 3 years) add more internal memory to increase the buffer and here is your winner.
The only thing that might be tricky is the improved EVF experience with the full 51MP resolution of the sensor - they might need to develop a secondary data pipe at lower resolution like Nikon does in the Z9/Z8 to ensure blackout free, full EVF resolution, all the time. Although for all I know that might already be how they did it for the A9iii.

I really wonder why they didn't choose to do a one-two punch with A9iii and A1ii together and knock all competition back another couple years (imagine doing that with Canon still quiet on the R1...) - I am sure Sony has their reasons that reason ignores.

 

[DavidT]

That's a fair assumption and I'm counting on your being right as I keep my dollars warm for an A1ii
Honestly, they could release it tomorrow if they wanted. Take the A9iii, drop in a slightly revamped A1 sensor with a tiny bit faster readout (I can't imagine they have not made any improvements through R&D in 3 years) add more internal memory to increase the buffer and here is your winner.
The only thing that might be tricky is the improved EVF experience with the full 51MP resolution of the sensor - they might need to develop a secondary data pipe at lower resolution like Nikon does in the Z9/Z8 to ensure blackout free, full EVF resolution, all the time. Although for all I know that might already be how they did it for the A9iii.

I really wonder why they didn't choose to do a one-two punch with A9iii and A1ii together and knock all competition back another couple years (imagine doing that with Canon still quiet on the R1...) - I am sure Sony has their reasons that reason ignores.

I’d say they didn’t to capture sales from those of us who have an a1 but want some of those features so we add the a9III to our kit. Then when the a1 comes out we sell the a9III to get the a1. This is why I’ll sit on the sidelines and wait a year to see what happens.

They way I look at it is the reasons I’d buy the a9III since I have two a1’s are the same reasons I’d upgrade my current a1’s. If for some crazy reasons those features don’t get out in the a1’s I’d likely not upgrade, keep them and then buy the a9III. I’ve done this long without the added features, what’s another year or so.

The global shutter does nothing for me. The a1 sensor does all I need. That’s the one feature I wouldn’t expect the a1 to get.

 

[Woodyg3]

You’re probably right to a degree but take a Z9 and Z8. Dealer cost on a Z9 is around $2,500 and a Z8 is less than $1200. So there is a lot more margin in cameras than they want you to believe. Figure the manufacture is making a 3.5x mark up before rebates. So that would put Sony cost of around $1,700.

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where you got that info? I've heard dealer cost is much higher than this, with retail markup being only 10-20%. One of our sources is obviously wrong. LOL.

 

[DavidT]

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where you got that info? I've heard dealer cost is much higher than this, with retail markup being only 10-20%. One of our sources is obviously wrong. LOL.

From an actual dealer.

 

[arbitrage]

i'm like 99.99999% sure that the improved AF has nothing to do with the GS and will come to the a1ii

Agreed. Even the A7RV seemed to have more consistent AF than the A1 when I owned it for a short while. Of course all the other issues derived from the slow speed sensor made shooting it and actually getting good results way worse than an A1. But for outright consistent AF hit rate I really did feel even that camera was pulling ahead of the A1. Just really hard to know for sure when faced with blackout, laggy EVF and 10FPS.

I'm sure the A1II will be able to compete with the A9III without the GS. And I really don't think the A1II will have a GS.

 

[John Navitsky]

And I really don't think the A1II will have a GS.

agreed. nor the z9ii.

 

[sh1209]

I can't honestly see anyone other than some sort of sports photographer buying this camera and IMO it's not worth more than $4500 tops. I surely hope the A1-2 isn't going to follow this pricing model because that would put it at nearly $8000. If that does transpire, I will most likely jump back to Nikon because the Z8 looks like a great camera for less than $4000. Sony is pushing the envelope of excluding mere common folks out of the market for purchasing their gear.

 

[Gwilliams6]

As a National and International Award Winning pro of over 50 years in the business, and a member of Sony Imaging Pro Support, let me add my two cents here. Already the A9III is out of stock in many places. The top sport shooters working for the wire services like Associated Press, Canadian Press, all Gannett media including USA Today, and UK's Top News Service that ALL exclusively use Sony gear for all their staff photographers and staff videographers around the world, ALREADY had them supplied direct from Sony, before they were released to the general public on Feb. 8th, so all those A9III cameras were never in the pre-order lists, just a fact. They are already being used around the world, and will be used at the Super Bowl on Feb. 11th. I used the best of Nikon, Canon, Leica and Hasselblad for over 40 years. Since I made the move to Sony mirrorless back in January 2017, I have owned and used Sony A6500, A7RII, A7RIII, A7III, A9, A7RIV, A7SIII and currently have A1, A7RV and yes A9III. I have shot all subjects around the world , War coverage, breaking news, pro sports, fast wildlife, fashion, celebrities, US Presidents, world leaders, royalty, Nobel Peace Prize recipients , corporate clients, events, weddings and more., and I will use the A9III for the things it can do than none of my other cameras can do. For a working pro we would have paid even more than $5998 USD for this global shutter sensor camera, when getting the shot means everything for our livelihoods in this highly competitive business. I will use my A9III for all the new creative abilities, advanced performance, and competitive advantages it gives me. If you dont need it, fine. But it will return much more than its initial investment for me. I am very happy to have the A9III joining my A1 and A7RV. Cheers and use what works for your needs and your budget and be happy.

 

[Gwilliams6]

I can't honestly see anyone other than some sort of sports photographer buying this camera and IMO it's not worth more than $4500 tops. I surely hope the A1-2 isn't going to follow this pricing model because that would put it at nearly $8000. If that does transpire, I will most likely jump back to Nikon because the Z8 looks like a great camera for less than $4000. Sony is pushing the envelope of excluding mere common folks out of the market for purchasing their gear.

Sony will still have plenty of cameras available in all price ranges . And you know Sony makes Nikon's image sensors so when Sony gives them the global shutter, it may cost less from Nikon as Nikon underprices its gear to try and stay afloat , and to climb back out of fourth place in the mirrorless worldwide sales market share behind Sony, Canon, Fuji. Check the numbers if you dont believe the facts. If you wish to go to Nikon, I wish you all the best, they are making great gear. Use what works best for you and your budget. Cheers

 

[DavidT]

As a National and International Award Winning pro of over 50 years in the business, and a member of Sony Imaging Pro Support, let me add my two cents here. Already the A9III is out of stock in many places. The top sport shooters working for the wire services like Associated Press, Canadian Press, all Gannett media including USA Today, and UK's Top News Service that ALL exclusively use Sony gear for all their staff photographers and staff videographers around the world, ALREADY had them supplied direct from Sony, before they were released to the general public on Feb. 8th, so all those A9III cameras were never in the pre-order lists, just a fact. They are already being used around the world, and will be used at the Super Bowl on Feb. 11th. I used the best of Nikon, Canon, Leica and Hasselblad for over 40 years. Since I made the move to Sony mirrorless back in January 2017, I have owned and used Sony A6500, A7RII, A7RIII, A7III, A9, A7RIV, A7SIII and currently have A1, A7RV and yes A9III. I have shot all subjects around the world , War coverage, breaking news, pro sports, fast wildlife, fashion, celebrities, US Presidents, world leaders, royalty, Nobel Peace Prize recipients , corporate clients, events, weddings and more., and I will use the A9III for the things it can do than none of my other cameras can do. For a working pro we would have paid even more than $5998 USD for this global shutter sensor camera, when getting the shot means everything for our livelihoods in this highly competitive business. I will use my A9III for all the new creative abilities, advanced performance, and competitive advantages it gives me. If you dont need it, fine. But it will return much more than its initial investment for me. I am very happy to have the A9III joining my A1 and A7RV. Cheers and use what works for your needs and your budget and be happy.

Welcome to the forum Gerald. As on FB forums you have a nice résumé however on this forum it is wildlife centric. For wildlife shooters this camera comes in short which mostly is around MP, noise levels and ultimately cost when compared to other cameras that are often used by wildlife photographers. This forum is filled with very accomplished wildlife and nature photographers and for most of us this camera being 24MP at this price point is a no go. If we didn’t have the a1 than maybe things would be different.

Again welcome and we appreciate your background but please remember this forum has a more narrow use case than most.

 

[MrFotoFool]

Nothing to do with performance necessarily, but I find it odd that even the top pro level Sony bodies at $6K do not have an integrated vertical grip like Nikon and Canon. Maybe some people prefer the smaller body, but when you see a picture of them lined up side by side (Canon R3, Nikon Z9, Sony A1 or A9iii), the Sony bodies look like toys in comparison. Please do not misquote me as saying they are toys or they have lower performance; I am just saying how the physical body looks. Clearly Nikon and Canon think pros like having a bigger pro body and I wonder why Sony does not think so?

 

[DavidT]

Nothing to do with performance necessarily, but I find it odd that even the top pro level Sony bodies at $6K do not have an integrated vertical grip like Nikon and Canon. Maybe some people prefer the smaller body, but when you see a picture of them lined up side by side (Canon R3, Nikon Z9, Sony A1 or A9iii), the Sony bodies look like toys in comparison. Please do not misquote me as saying they are toys or they have lower performance; I am just saying how the physical body looks. Clearly Nikon and Canon think pros like having a bigger pro body and I wonder why Sony does not think so?

It’s a design difference. Sony focuses on smaller, lighter designs. They also focus on highly customizable designs and no one comes close to them in this regard.

The Z8 for example is proof the Z9 didn’t need to be as large and heavy as it is.

The a1 for example still has capabilities the Z9 and Z8 can’t compete yet the a1 is smaller, lighter, and gives me choices with or without a grip without sacrificing capability.

Each brand has its design language which allows users to chose what best fits their use case. I came from Nikon to Sony and frankly Sony does so many things right I can’t see a day I’d move back to Nikon yet they do many things well than they used to.

 

[John Navitsky]

I find it odd that even the top pro level Sony bodies at $6K do not have an integrated vertical grip like Nikon and Canon. Maybe some people prefer the smaller body,

Clearly Nikon and Canon think pros like having a bigger pro body and I wonder why Sony does not think so?

i think sony prioritizes (values) small size and the others, less so. and as a result, sony really pushes to make their cameras small, even if they must make sacrifices like the use of cfe-a instead of cfe-b and ultimate thermal performance. why such priorities creep into the dna of a company is less clear. but it is true some shooters prioritize small cameras, and this alignment probably makes sony popular with those users, although the inverse is true as well. i found the a1 with the 100-400 made my hand sore after using it for a long day and definitely would have had to get the grip to make that workable if i had gone that direction. it’s clear that small can be beneficial in some use cases and sony folks will point out you can make a small camera large but not a large camera small. personally i think nikon and canon are more role oriented and the see what people want to accomplish the mission of a pro sport body and performance and ergos are higher on that list than small size, so they prioritize accordingly

 

[John Navitsky]

The Z8 for example is proof the Z9 didn’t need to be as large and heavy as it is.

totally not trying to start anything here, but i don’t think that’s correct at all. i think nikon had requirements like unlimited runtime with high bit video that required additional thermal mass and requirements like high performance card backup that simply couldn’t be shoehorned into the z8. yes, most people can live without those things, but my impression is where nikon’s head is at requires them to meet those objectives, size be damned.
ie, nikon’s philosophy is a pro sport body must be able to this list of things and all other considerations will be secondary

 

[EricKlees]

It’s a design difference. Sony focuses on smaller, lighter designs. They also focus on highly customizable designs and no one comes close to them in this regard.

The Z8 for example is proof the Z9 didn’t need to be as large and heavy as it is.

The a1 for example still has capabilities the Z9 and Z8 can’t compete yet the a1 is smaller, lighter, and gives me choices with or without a grip without sacrificing capability.

Each brand has its design language which allows users to chose what best fits their use case. I came from Nikon to Sony and frankly Sony does so many things right I can’t see a day I’d move back to Nikon yet they do many things well than they used to.

The Z8 still has some shortcomings to the Z9. Most notably heat dissapation issues, battery performance and room for a 2nd CFE type B slot rather than an SD slot.

These will never be mitigated. These are the reasons the Z9 is the size and weight. Sony doesn't even have a mirrorless pro body