Thinking Zf vs Z8 for backup cam....

[ssheipel]

Steven, Nikon just announced a $500 savings on a Z8 today.

Yah, there was $400 off in the lead up and post holidays, here in Canada. Recovering financially from the 600 first before buying the back up so painful to do so but I ignored the sale price, for now Thanks.

 

[ssheipel]

I would go with either the Zf or Z8. One is a bit cheaper (well, more than a bit I guess) and has pixel shift and 24MP. The other is more bucks, more FPS, and more MP…and outside of pixel shift I don’t know if it’s AF is the same as the Z8 or the next generation. And the Zi has more buttons to customize and operates more closely to your primary Z9. I don’t know if the 9.4 pounds and slightly bigger body make a difference for you for street shooting…but unless that’s your primary subject rather than wildlife I would think the FPS amd ‘works more like the primary is better for you. If on a wildlife outing you basically have one body/lens out and the backup in the backpack to be used if necessary instead of both being out with different lenses…then spending less and having the smaller body to schlep and also for street might be more attractive. And there’s budget too…the not such a little bit of price difference factors in there as well.

I would definitely get another Z body rather than the D6 and another big lens…since the Zs operate so much differently than even the best of the DSLRs and if you don’t use the D6 much anymore the muscle memory for it might be less remembered. I kept my Z7II for street…and considered the Zf to replace it…but the weight difference nd the ‘Z7II is still fine as long as FPS and fast AF isn’t as important for street’ made it a not yet answer for me.

Thanks. Interesting thing for me I find that when I grab the D6 the memory comes back incredibly quickly even the play button Ditto when I then jump back to the Z9. Tho I don't use them back and forth in any given shoot. Again, however, the backup camera will be used on this shoot should the Z9 die and like I don't want to spend too much for the 'insurance' body; ditto I agree I don't want to take an extra 9 pounds (D6 and the 180-400) when it's unlikely to get taken out of the bag. As for schleping around, I do a lot of that and really do not think about/notice the weight of the Z9 (or D6) in my hand even with the pig of a lens the 50 1.2 (my favourite street lens). But I did hold the Z8 at the store when I was picking up my 600 and I could be convinced smaller and lighter could make for a better day of street shooting Cheers!

 

[ssheipel]

I have wondered how well the mirrorless cameras will perform in the extreme cold. My initial response would be to take the D6 but since then you need a second heavy long lens (though the 500mm PF and TC wouldn't be that bad) not sure I would do that. Personally, I have done several trips since I got the Z9 and have bought and been using the Z8 as my backup. Like how similar they are and the lower weight of the Z8. Maybe the Z6 III will be out by the time you are ready to go? Can't speak to the Zf. Does the battery last longer in the Zf than the Z8? And the weatherproofing is similar? I would think the small difference in price (relative to the cost of your trip) shouldn't be the deciding factor? And having the extra megapixels for a distant subject would be another advantage for the Z8? Just some random thoughts.

I've shot with the Z9 three or four days (and hiked with it on those days) in -35 C or worse and it performed okay; there were some minor quirks certainly cold related, and the battery was utterly dead after about 6 hours. The D6 (and the D3) I used in similar temps many more times with zero issues, including battery life. That said, I've spoken with a photographer who shot polar bears on the same trip I'm taking using the Z9 and the 600 and she had no issues with camera or lens (gear stayed outside for the entire trip) or with battery recharging. And yah, the lust is there for the Z8 but again the back up camera is hopefully just going to be that so trying to purchase as insurance not with the lust for more great gear . Thanks.

 

[cchuck]

I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body). Further, enter my upcoming trip to Baffin Island in the early spring where I really don't want to be without a backup camera (e.g. be there and fate delivers a failure of the Z9 -- afterall it'll be over a week of very cold temps without respite for the gear, or me, from the cold). So the thought of spending several thousand dollars for ANY backup camera for just 10 days (and any future such trips, of course) hurts. Option is to risk it -- one camera body -- but that's really not a rational option, especially given my luck Option 2 is to take the D6 as backup AND take up a backup lens (say the 500 pf with tc or even the other behmoth lens 180-400)) but that's really pushing already strained gear packing space.

Option 3 is to choose the Zf for the backup camera. Bonus here is I suspect I'd likely wind up using that camera quite a bit for street and walk about photography; even portrait work I do (despite my preference for 'big' cameras in hand). So that would give it greater use than 'emergency' use only and take the sting out of the (already less $ than the Z8) price tag. And it's got all the AF power of the 8 and 9 so would be a great option for wildlife if it comes to that (eg Z9 crash).

Anyway, thought I'd use this forum to put my thinking down on the 'page' as I move to a decision. And with this crowd I suspect there will be a few thoughts and opinions

Also, on another matter re the trip north. I've decided for a Zoom option (along with the 600 prime) I'm going to take the z 70-200 and a tc, likely the 2x)

Steven,

My thinking is don't think back-up; think second camera and lens. Z9 on big glass and Z8 on 180-600 zoom. or similar. Backup situations covered and convenience of switching from one to the other is grab-and-go. Even though the 8 currently lacks the latest firmware for subject ID, it works closely enough that button set up is nearly the same and image quality nearly identical. Find a used Z8; sell the f-mount.

 

[EricBowles]

I think about a balance for the cost/benefit with backup gear. Clearly - you want a backup kit even if it's not perfect. But you have to balance the cost of various backup options compared to the benefit.

In my view, the ZF has more value as a backup than another Z9 or a Z8. The ZF fits your needs as a primary camera for a number of scenarios, and might get 20% of your photos for the year. It's a great camera for traveling light. And the cost is modest compared to even another Z8. The ZF is a better camera than adding a Z7ii or Z6ii - mainly because of the improvements in subject identification and focus. While clearly it has some drawbacks as a wildlife camera, you would still be able to achieve 95% of your photo objectives with a ZF.

For someone who is purely a wildlife photographer and uses two cameras concurrently, I'd suggest a Z8 or Z9 as the backup. The similarity of controls and menu options, performance, file size, frame rate, and other aspects are similar and especially if you could use them concurrently, would make sense.

The impact of the added weight and lack of lens compatibility is what caused my to sell my D850 as soon as I had a second Z camera. It became impractical to carry a DSLR as a backup for a Z camera unless you were using several DSLR lenses.

As you point out, the cost of a rental camera is relatively high - probably more than buying a refurbished camera and selling it when you return. And this is a trip that requires a backup camera, so you need to take something.

 

[Larry S.]

Steven, Nikon just announced a $500 savings on a Z8 today.

Uh oh Ralph… You’ve mentioned a Z8 was in your future… Is now the time?

 

[Ralph]

Uh oh Ralph… You’ve mentioned a Z8 was in your future… Is now the time?

I’m going to wait until late spring early summer. It is tempting. Whats really tempting if i had a z camera already is the $500 off on the 800 pf

 

[ssheipel]

Go for the Zf, yiu know you want to! The “rational” mind says rent and use a Z9, saving yours for backup. With a z9, you can directly copy your settings…important if you’re very used to banks etc etc…unless you enjoy learning new systems.

Yah, I think the Zf will prove to be a 'fun' camera in hand, so 'want' is what it's all about vs need As for renting, as above, the cost will come close to the price of the Zf, so

 

[ssheipel]

The logical backup to a Z9 is a Z8. But when did logic ever come into gear purchases?

For me the logical back up for the Z9 is another Z9, especially when I'm looking at the Z8 as a mini Z9; other than saving the dollars, of course!!

 

[ssheipel]

Funny, I just wrote up my experience with the Zf as a back-up body on the FM forum... I'm pasting a copy of my post here.
Before I paste the post, I want to offer a backstory. One month ago I was using a Z9/Z8/Z6II w/ 24-120, 180-600, 400 f4.5, 800PF. The opportunity to buy my dream lens... the Z 400mm f2.8S appeared, so I sold the Z8, 400 f4.5, and 800PF. I wish this equaled my lens, but I also through a fair amount of money into the deal. This left me with a Z9/Z6II combo platter and I was using the Z9 with the 400 f2.8S and Z6II with the 180-600. At Bosque del Apache, I became frustrated with the AF limitations on the Z6II... enter my decision to sell that and buy the Zf... FM... comments to follow:

I live in the world of the polar vortex and the sub-arctic air has settled on my home range. This morning it was -6 degF (-21C), and if you include the wind, it was a balmy -20 degF (-29 degC +/-). My wildlife subjects are cold just like their photographer. Finding wildlife is a challenge and sitting with them on an icy lake is equally difficult. In the end, I managed to make only two keepers (see below). The shots were taken with the Nikon Zf. In general, I plan to use the 180-600 with the Zf and my 400 f/2.8S with the Z9.

I've been adding my thoughts to the Zf discussion as well as one related to using a Zf w/ a 600PF. For those of you looking for a second body, I'd argue that this is your best option after the Z9/Z8. Please note, the Zf is not without its faults... in fact, I'd argue that ergonomically, it's not the better than the Z6/Z7 series, but the AF and viewfinder refresh rate is worth the ergonomic limitations. Of course, if you're a street photographer using manual focus lenses, the Zf is the right camera. For a nature shooter like me, I ignore the "old school" dials and programed the two comman dials to match my Z9. I've set the AEL button on the back to back-button focus, and programmed the one function button to change my AF patch to single point AF.

Finding the command dials with gloves is a little tricky, but this did not prevent me from controlling the camera as I intended. While I wish there was an additonal dedicated back-button focus button, I am making due. The real benefit of the Zf is the AF. The AF is responsive and behaves like my Z9. I shot for about an hour in the cold, and the battery held up just fine. I probably could get 4 hours out of a battery in that weather... I think that's better than what I could do with the Z6. Finally, in addition to the problems of shooting a white bird with a tiny black eye over water on a frigid morning, there was river mist. The AF behaved way better than expected...

Sample picks added.
bruce

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View attachment 79222

Gotta love white bird in white environment in ice fog! Nice results. All good points. Unless used as the only camera left working on the trip I don't forsee using the backup for wildlife. This is not going to be an animal rich trip or a situation where the bears will require two cameras with different lenses attached to accomodate rapidly changing situations. I'll almost certainly have the back up in the bag with the landscape lens attached and settings appropriate to that task, but again if the task at hand is landscape (e.g. the bears have forsaken me on any given day) I'm likely to do the shoot with the Z9 for no other reason than its bigger mgp count (assuming I go with the Zf).... Cheers!

 

[ssheipel]

This is just my opinion but I’d go with the Zf. I want to get one but had to make a choice between it and some other stuff and don’t need yet another camera. If you are shooting two bodies interchangeably it is best to have identical or nearly identical bodies like Z9/Z8 but if you want a second body for emergency usage and to serve other purposes like a fun, lightweight travel camera, the Zf looks like a fantastic option. I know I will get a Zf eventually, maybe later this year.

Thanks, my thinking exactly. Truly looking for 'need a camera or there will be no photos' scenario for a back up

 

[ssheipel]

Wait a couple weeks and a Z6III will likely be announced. Probably worth waiting for if you can't justify Z8 and don't want a retro Zf as a backup.

Thanks. Oh I definitely 'want' the retro Zf LOL Do I need it? Will I use it? No and not likely That said as a back up camera the choice I've decided DOES need the AF magic that comes with the processor, AND even so I can't imagine the iii will ship within months of my having completed the trip and had my frostbite healed let alone before I go

 

[ssheipel]

Rent a Z8...done!

The cost would come 'close' to the cost of the Zf and I'd have nothing for it; makes for too high an 'insurance' cost. Cheers!

 

[ssheipel]

I have two Z9 bodies and I went with a Z8 for a smaller body. I tried a Z7ii but just didn't like the different button layout and menus. It lacked a lot fo the features I use on the Z9.

The Z8 does the job. Very similar for all major functions, muscle memory doesn't need a reset and it is smaller than the Z9. I may end up selling one of the Z9's coming year.
So I would go for similar layout and functions and suggest the Z8 over the Zf.

Thanks.

 

[ssheipel]

My backups are my D6 and a second Z9 - thanks to major reductions in 2022 and last year, when the Z9 special was almost the same as a new Z8.
However I also suggest a Zf, for backup as well as your general ILC. As you say, a Zf will pair with Z Telephotos etc, and cost significantly less

I'd happily take my D6 as emerg backup but that requires adding compatible lenses to the bag, one. And two, any Z9 failure would mean no 600 TC use which given the lens was ultimately purchased for this trip would break my heart (after it broke my budget)

 

[ssheipel]

Steven,

My thinking is don't think back-up; think second camera and lens. Z9 on big glass and Z8 on 180-600 zoom. or similar. Backup situations covered and convenience of switching from one to the other is grab-and-go. Even though the 8 currently lacks the latest firmware for subject ID, it works closely enough that button set up is nearly the same and image quality nearly identical. Find a used Z8; sell the f-mount.

Thanks. I hear ya, definitely. But, one, I don't have a wildlfie zoom beyond other than the 180-400 and it's just too heavy to include especially since I've been told by a couple folks now that this trip is very unlikely to call for zoom flexibility. Two, that said I am still leaning to taking a zoom (if I don't with my luck the plolar bears will want to lay at my feet), but was thinking a z70-200 (with a tc) -- which I'll use extensively generally justifying the cost (and not making the 180-400 redundant as I do use that lens a lot as well (when travel isn't involved. I've thought about selling the D6 AND the 180-400; one I 'like' and use both (the lens a lot!), and the resale value is so low it wouldn't make my ability to afford a second cam (8 or 9) and a Z zoom. I like the desription 'grab and go'. That's how I treat the D6 and 180-400 (beside the Z9 and 600), but just not going to (and frankly not likely possible) to drag it all with me; and can't afford the switch to the lighter kits, as you suggest. That all said, how do you find the 180-600?

 

[ssheipel]

I think about a balance for the cost/benefit with backup gear. Clearly - you want a backup kit even if it's not perfect. But you have to balance the cost of various backup options compared to the benefit.

In my view, the ZF has more value as a backup than another Z9 or a Z8. The ZF fits your needs as a primary camera for a number of scenarios, and might get 20% of your photos for the year. It's a great camera for traveling light. And the cost is modest compared to even another Z8. The ZF is a better camera than adding a Z7ii or Z6ii - mainly because of the improvements in subject identification and focus. While clearly it has some drawbacks as a wildlife camera, you would still be able to achieve 95% of your photo objectives with a ZF.

For someone who is purely a wildlife photographer and uses two cameras concurrently, I'd suggest a Z8 or Z9 as the backup. The similarity of controls and menu options, performance, file size, frame rate, and other aspects are similar and especially if you could use them concurrently, would make sense.

The impact of the added weight and lack of lens compatibility is what caused my to sell my D850 as soon as I had a second Z camera. It became impractical to carry a DSLR as a backup for a Z camera unless you were using several DSLR lenses.

As you point out, the cost of a rental camera is relatively high - probably more than buying a refurbished camera and selling it when you return. And this is a trip that requires a backup camera, so you need to take something.

Thanks! Yup! If I had the cash I'd buy a second Z9. Even though for me that would be foolish 'cause I just wouldn't use it, which is where my thinking went with the Z8 (great camera but I'd just never use it). But as to your point "need to take something" I concluded the Zf and it's AF similarity to the 9 and 8 make it the good choice -- even tho if the Z9 doesn't fail (on the trip or otherwise) I just won't use it A friend got a Z8 for Christmas -- the solution is just coming to me now. Think I'll borrow her camera for two weeks in April; just wont' tell her where I'm going

 

[BLev65]

Gotta love white bird in white environment in ice fog! Nice results. All good points. Unless used as the only camera left working on the trip I don't forsee using the backup for wildlife. This is not going to be an animal rich trip or a situation where the bears will require two cameras with different lenses attached to accomodate rapidly changing situations. I'll almost certainly have the back up in the bag with the landscape lens attached and settings appropriate to that task, but again if the task at hand is landscape (e.g. the bears have forsaken me on any given day) I'm likely to do the shoot with the Z9 for no other reason than its bigger mgp count (assuming I go with the Zf).... Cheers!

I completely get your point. I've got plans this month to head out on a winter wildlife workshop in Japan. Lots of cold weather photography with a diversity of wildlife, wildlife-landscapes, and landscape opportunities. My Z9 will be fixed to the primary wildlife lens of the day, and I put the Zf on the my "other" lens so it's available for landscapes or when subjects approach my position.
I shot the Zf yesterday to test its autofocus in challenging winter conditions, and I am NOW confident that it can deliver if I need to use it.
It's always good to have some kind of redundancy when you've spent so much money on a trip... I'm actually thinking of picking up the "cheap" 28mm f2.8 so I have a spare wide-angle if I do something stupid to my 24-120.

cheers,
bruce

Edited to correct typo from "I am not confident..." to "I am NOW confident..."

 

[Nimi]

I'm very interested to observe that the Zf has become a favorite serious/pro photographer body and companion to the Z9. Certainly in my case and per my local dealer, widely the case.

 

[DsD]

I completely get your point. I've got plans this month to head out on a winter wildlife workshop in Japan. Lots of cold weather photography with a diversity of wildlife, wildlife-landscapes, and landscape opportunities. My Z9 will be fixed to the primary wildlife lens of the day, and I put the Zf on the my "other" lens so it's available for landscapes or when subjects approach my position.
I shot the Zf yesterday to test its autofocus in challenging winter conditions, and I am NOW confident that it can deliver if I need to use it.
It's always good to have some kind of redundancy when you've spent so much money on a trip... I'm actually thinking of picking up the "cheap" 28mm f2.8 so I have a spare wide-angle if I do something stupid to my 24-120.

cheers,
bruce

Edited to correct typo from "I am not confident..." to "I am NOW confident..."

So why not your 17-28 WA Bruce?

 

[wes]

I went with a Zf as a backup/second body and I love it

 

[BLev65]

So why not your 17-28 WA Bruce?

No space w/ the two telephoto lenses... I'm trying to travel as light as I can.
bruce

 

[John Navitsky]

Oh I definitely 'want' the retro Zf LOL Do I need it?

ok that's the hint we needed.

yes, the zf is the only logical choice.

you're welcome ;-) :-D

 

[john1970]

I would probably go with the Z8 if finances allow for it. I started getting into the Z system in 2024 and my first and only gamera is a Z9. I will likely get a Z8 in April 2024 as a second body.

 

[ssheipel]

I would probably go with the Z8 if finances allow for it. I started getting into the Z system in 2024 and my first and only gamera is a Z9. I will likely get a Z8 in April 2024 as a second body.

Thanks. I agree with that thinking for a 'second' camera; as backup tho....