I will start to tire much more quickly with an additional 5 lbs of glass
Using Nikon 600mm f4E FL ED VR AF-S Lens with Z9 and Z8. Advice please or opt for Z 600PF?
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I will start to tire much more quickly with an additional 5 lbs of glass
Yesterday I visited a photographer friend who is now mostly retired.
This guy is a photographer’s photographer. His specialty was architectural photography and he traveled all over the world for his projects. He shot mostly Phase 1 equipment with high end Zeiss perspective control lenses. He is incredibly creative and has an excellent eye not to mention full command of post processing programs and techniques.
With that sort of photography he had staff and porters. He said he used to bring 30 cases of photo equipment with him on travels as well as assistants.
I brought my birding gear along and showed it to him. He is not a wildlife guy. He said it looks too much like work. He said after carrying all that phase 1 gear all over teh world he now favors light gear. His cameras of choice are now the Sony 60mp and the Leica Q.
He told me a horror story of losing his Phase 1 setup when an assistant accidentally knocked the camera over.
Then he gave me a ten minute lesson on Photoshop. I took a lot of notes and I am going to sit down and do some playing around.
This guy is a photographer’s photographer. His specialty was architectural photography and he traveled all over the world for his projects. He shot mostly Phase 1 equipment with high end Zeiss perspective control lenses. He is incredibly creative and has an excellent eye not to mention full command of post processing programs and techniques.
With that sort of photography he had staff and porters. He said he used to bring 30 cases of photo equipment with him on travels as well as assistants.
I brought my birding gear along and showed it to him. He is not a wildlife guy. He said it looks too much like work. He said after carrying all that phase 1 gear all over teh world he now favors light gear. His cameras of choice are now the Sony 60mp and the Leica Q.
He told me a horror story of losing his Phase 1 setup when an assistant accidentally knocked the camera over.
Then he gave me a ten minute lesson on Photoshop. I took a lot of notes and I am going to sit down and do some playing around.
Vincent_VdB
Well-known member
Get the F-Mount 600mm E FL f//4 and don't look back
. The lens is stellar and works beautifully with the Z8 or Z9. Look in the YouTube videos from Steven and you will see that the lens performs excellent without loss of IQ or speed. Hence, it focusses even faster with a TC on it on a Z8/9 compared to the flagship D5 or D6 .
Nature Files
Active member
I've had plenty of experience with long glass, and I'll stick by my statement that you can hold a heavier lens more steady than a lighter one. I'm not talking about for minutes at a time, but more like picking the lens up, finding target, and snapping several bursts...so like 20 to 30 seconds. Obviously, your arm will wear out sooner with f/4 glass over long durations, but I'm specifically talking about quick bursts.
I do a fair amount of archery shooting, so I know that weight makes a huge difference in how 'shaky' we tend to be when aiming. A lighter bow at full draw will always tend to be more erratic when aiming than a heavier bow in my experience. Weight displacement also has a huge role as you'll notice when watching Olympic archers and their long weighted stabilizers.
Vincent_VdB
Well-known member
My man
This is indeed also what I experienced when I did shoot the 600PF for the first time. That was on a Z8 and that compared to a Z9 with the S 600mm TC. The light combo was so weird to hold at first and found indeed myself at the beginning in a bit of trouble.
If the rumoured up to about 33% Nikon new price fall on "exotic" F mount lenses starts on the rumoured date of 29th this month - new and second hand prices will fall significantly.
tabishshaikh
New member
One of the reasons why I would recommend going with the Z lenses is because one does not need to use the FTZ adaptor. Having less number of contacts is always good especially if you plan to add a TC too. I have seen a few cases where the FTZ adaptor has completely broken into 2 pieces with heavier prime lenses. Also in dusty/dry conditions, the AF can suffer if you have dust on the contacts which is not so common when the lens is mounted on the camera without the FTZ ( this is my personal experience using the 500F4 with Z8)
glsmith9823
Active member
Very true; but when I had children two years old, I couldn't afford to purchase any 600 mm focal length lens.it is nice to be young. Some of us are old enough to have 2 years as grand kids if not great grand kids
I'd also venture to say that "truly new" copies of these lenses will be much more difficult to find after they are on sale for such discounts.
macwalter
Well-known member
I have a good friend who uses the 600f4 lens on his z9 and carries it on a monopod setup recommended by Steve Perry. He is amazing on this rig and no doubt he gets superb photos. He does not handhold and he is 25 years younger than me and very strong. I simply cannot manage an 8lb lens handheld. Fro those of you who can carry this kind of gear, go for it but I will continue to use the 600pf which is sharper than I can get handheld. It’s a beauty to handle on my z8. If I were to go exotic I would save and get the 600tc as it is lighter and has the tc option. As to background blur with the new post options I find this to be less of an issue. In many cases the blur option in PS (better than the same blur option in LR) can do a lovely job. The main loss is low light settings and having to use higher iso. For BIF I can’t handhold an exotic 600mm so I’d be having to work off a gimbal on monopod and I can get more shots handheld in these cases. I rarely do BIF work in dark settings like late afternoon or deep forest situations so the low light issues are less important. However in very early outings in birding trips in a blind for instance f6.3 may not AF on a bird so I use my 400f4.5. All the lenses mentioned are excellent. One thing I do remember was the 600fl is quite heavy and twice my friend had the mount break on a trip forcing him to use his 500mm pf backup for the rest of the trip.
Anjin San
Well-known member
I’m not sure the stop loss is significant for everyone…but it’s really a trade off for the weight and cost gains the PF provides. And while I don’t have a 600/4 to test it myself…the lens blur that is in LR now does a pretty good job and appears to cause the focus to fall off gradually just as a real lens would do. For some people…the heavier f4 lens is worth it..others maybe not.
Like everything else this is a trade off and there’s not really a universal right answer. Depends on needs and wants of the individual.
The biggest difference for me is the higher ISO or potential lower shutter speed due to the aperture loss…but today’s software cures a lot of noise issues and a slighter lower speed helps keep the ISO from getting crazy. In a perfect world the heavier lens would probably win the competition most of the time…but in the world of varying needs, output type, skills, budget, and physical limitations…maybe good enough is…well…good enough. Pros making images for a living are (a) mostly younger than I am and people like Steve whose livelihood depends on it can justify the best/most expensive/heaviest option. Amateurs…some of us simply want the best regardless of cost but perhaps get caught up in the ‘it is better’ idea…and that’s fine too. No real right answer for everybody here.
Anjin San
Well-known member
We had a Sony TC do that in Africa in April and literally dropped the A1 into the mud from 6 or 7 feet off the ground. Fortunately she had a second body and the 600/4 was undamaged once she got the remains of the TC off the rear of the lens.
I think the 800 pf is better for birds than the 600 pf. I had all three mid price long primes at one point, 400 f4.5 600 pf and 800 pf. I ended up selling the 600 because the combo of 800 and 400 worked better for me.
i can carry both the 400 and 800 on a Holdfast dual strap. Since i only lift either lens to shoot I can manage both handheld. A really good carrying strap setup makes all the difference.
i can carry both the 400 and 800 on a Holdfast dual strap. Since i only lift either lens to shoot I can manage both handheld. A really good carrying strap setup makes all the difference.
I use the Z9 with the 600mm Z f/4 TC. I did have the F mount 600mm f/4 and used it with the FTZ2 with no issues. However, as Steve P. said, the built in TC is a game changer. Remember to add on the weight of the TC to the F mount lens to get a fair comparison. Of course, I agree with all who suggest what foc length you use most frequently should play a role. I use both 600mm and 840mm about the same amount. i also use a tripod when my shutter speed slows down, that way, all the shots are sharp if the subject doesn't move, even at very slow slow shutter speeds.
I don't have kids, but when I was that age, I had just started my career. I took a part time job to affords $1,500 camera lenses, not $5-6,000 ones. I was able to purchase a 500 F/4 because I won a major award (extra bonus) at work.Very true; but when I had children two years old, I couldn't afford to purchase any 600 mm focal length lens.
I braved the smoke this morning and went out birding for the first time with my Holdfast Money Maker dual harness, thanks for the tip, Z9 w/800 f/6.3 on the right and Z9 with Tamron z mount 150-500 on the left. Horrible light and the smoke was so bad it was tasty. I was only out there a little over an hour and as the smoke was joined by fine ash particles I walked back home but the money maker worked great. I ordered a Holdfast solo today.
What lens?
I am primarily birder who takes photographs for ID purposes I am on the move in all types of terrain and habitat out in Southern Idaho. Back in April of 2022 I was using a Nikkor 600 mm f/4E for my birding on a D6 and D850 a great lens. Yes I had held it and carried it in an MRjan long lens carrier adapted to a Think Tank racing harness and speed belt.
I shot target rifles for years and agree that a "barrel heavy" camera/lens combo can be easier to hold steady but the 600 mm f/4E is quite heavy and just big so logistically a challenge.
In April 2022 I got my first Z9 and the ftz adapted 600 f/4E worked better on it than on my DSLR's. May 1, 2022 my Z800 f/6.3 arrived and by the middle of June 2022 I had sold off all of my DSLR's and f mount lenses. I
I recently added a Z6III and Z600 f/6.3 and that combo is great for low light. The Z9 with the Z800 remains my go to for birding.
I use a z mount Tamron 150-500 for closer distances or where I want variable focal length.
For people indoors and for the limited other stuff I do I use Tamron z mount 35-150 f/2-2.8 and an Nikon Z24-120 f/4.
I shot target rifles for years and agree that a "barrel heavy" camera/lens combo can be easier to hold steady but the 600 mm f/4E is quite heavy and just big so logistically a challenge.
In April 2022 I got my first Z9 and the ftz adapted 600 f/4E worked better on it than on my DSLR's. May 1, 2022 my Z800 f/6.3 arrived and by the middle of June 2022 I had sold off all of my DSLR's and f mount lenses. I
I recently added a Z6III and Z600 f/6.3 and that combo is great for low light. The Z9 with the Z800 remains my go to for birding.
I use a z mount Tamron 150-500 for closer distances or where I want variable focal length.
For people indoors and for the limited other stuff I do I use Tamron z mount 35-150 f/2-2.8 and an Nikon Z24-120 f/4.
Even though I can afford nice, expensive lenses, it doesn't mean that I should be buying them. Every time I do make a big photo purchase, it delays my retirement a few months.
Roy
Well-known member
I still use the 600mm f4 AFS but its heavy and I'd trade it for a 600 PF in a minute - except I paid a small ransom for it ...
O
Well-known member
RENT a F6.3 lens for the week end, all you want to know will be yours for the picking. Its a low cost for a serious matter.
The 600 PF F6.3 is a deadly sharp incredible good prime lens, we know its smaller lighter, the question as we also know really is simply to be found in your photo archive, how many photos tell you on average what ISO needs generally are.
Again rent a F6/3 first, I am a F2.8, F4 prime user and lover, as i do shoot in challenging light at times and i do love the back ground effect a F2.8 F4 prime brings.
I had the 600 FL with the Z9, but since have sold it. Not that the F mount was bad, but I found the hassle of using it was problematic. First there is carrying the adapter, and having to mount, unmount it all the time, then if you want to use a TC the extention becomes uncomfortably long. I now have both the 600 f6.3, and 600 TC. My thoughts were to use the 600 f6.3 for walk around, and the 600 TC under more limited conditions. Now that I have experience with both I have to say that I use the 600 TC most of the time even for a walk around lens. I just use a monopod with a RRS MH-01 head, unless I just physically can't make it work. Between the 600 FL, and 600 f6.3 I would go with the 600 f6.3. The image quality is excellent, its small/light weight makes it an excellent walk around lens without the hassle of trying to remember which pocket you put the FTZ adapter in. The 600 FL is a bit of an unbalanced monster.
As i got close to retirement I realized that they amount i saved had a de minimis impact upon my retirement savings. Growth in my retirement account came from doing well in my investments - just run a simple scenario - say retirement account is $500,000 and you make 10%. That is $50,000. Saving an extra $5,000 only changes retirement net worth by 1%, the same as if your return from 9% to 10%.
I hear you, but I haven't done so well. Real estate has killed me.