everytime I try to outdo the market, i am outdone. So I stick with index funds. At least I am not doing any poorer than the market (perhaps no better).
Using Nikon 600mm f4E FL ED VR AF-S Lens with Z9 and Z8. Advice please or opt for Z 600PF?
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Sunk cost. You will never get your money back and the lens will only go down in value so may be best to bite the bullet, hold your nose, and accept your lose and then enjoy the 600 PFI still use the 600mm f4 AFS but its heavy and I'd trade it for a 600 PF in a minute - except I paid a small ransom for it ...
O
Well-known member
You can always make more money, you cant make more time lost, once its gone its gone.
O
Well-known member
Could it be that's why Leica in the old days before IBIS made their cameras out of a solid brass ingot
so it weighs a tonne in order to provide better stabilization hand held ?
I to find i can hand hold the Z9 with a 70-200 fl more stable than if the lens was on a D7100 or Df.
In fact i always use a light mono pod stick where and whenever possible, and at times i shorten it right up, have it attached to the lens foot so i can in its shortened state angle it slightly forward, it adds to stabilization, much like the stabilizers on a Bow.
"Enhanced Balance: Bow stabilizers add weight to the front end of the bow, improving its balance and reducing the tendency for the bow to tip forward during the aiming process. This added stability helps archers hold steady while aiming and executing their shots"
Of course 3 D tracking and IBIS kicks in here in many cases but not all situations are practical.
Larger lenses or even lighter lenses with frequency of use determines muscle toning and memory and of course strength but that's drilling down a little too far.
As people age often weight and stabilization becomes progressively a greater issue.
I am lucky I can use a Z9 with a 24-70 2.8 G hand held with one hand on an extended arm and nail what i need easily if want to as i have a very strong grip and good strength so it’s not an issue.
My unloading the Z9 for a Z8 hopefully soon a Z7III is due to not only doing different things now but mainly reducing cumulative weight for when doing 4 or 5 day hikes or extended traveling, its the overall weight and size that is the consideration for now, till things chnage again LOL.
As to the 600 F4 FL versus the 600 F5.6 PF, the decision is best made using before buying, so rent first, if the rental company is competitive they will offset the rental against the purchase price anyway.
The 600 F5.6 PF is optically in good light somewhat on the heels of the 600 TC version, again a question is if you shoot mostly all at F7.1 or F10 then its the F6.3 PF is a no brainier, if you’re like me and shoot only at F2.8 on a 300mm prime or F4 no more than F5.6 on a 600 F4 then your only consideration is size and weight.
Its all very personal, the newer cameras are moving from 5 stops to 8 stops IBIS, and low light focus from 3 stops to 5 stops, meaning ISO outcomes on a 600 PF should with slower shutter speeds needed actually narrow the gap to teh F4 around the ISO demand, so its Bokah at F4 that is now on the table, all these things will become tangibly clear using before buying...........
Money is like the rain it comes and goes, Time doesn't.
Only an opinion
Ed Erkes
Active member
What a ridiculous statement!
O
Well-known member
It will be interesting as to what the original post ends up with.
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pgohil
New member
I am “sailing in the same boat” as the OP. I am 26 and fit and currently use a 200-500mm on a Z8 and have been wanting to upgrade to a 500 prime and 600 prime for the longest time now. I am getting a used 600mm f4 FL ED VR for about the same cost as a new Z600 6.3. If I got either of these two lenses, my actual 200-500 replacement will be a Z 100-400 because I love the versatility of a zoom, which I will probably get later on. Any advice?
Dionigi Colombo
Well-known member
It depends a little on what you use it for, I for one prefer the 600 f/4 FL
ricardo00
Well-known member
pgohil
New member
A lot of actual forest birding in South America and Asia (lot of walking, hiking), and a little bit of owl photography here in Canada. I am a bird lister and like to get best the possible pictures of a bird I see
groob
Active member
If you shoot much at the edges of the day or under the canopy, get the f/4.
Roy
Well-known member
Having both lenses If I dont need to go far from the car then I love the 600 f4 otherwise the 600 PF is just so practical ...
macwalter
Well-known member
Tough call if money is no obstacle. I recently was able to hold the 400 f2.8tc and was surprised by how much lighter it felt than the f glass models. Also the balance was improved. That being said it is still a big chunk of glass as is the 600f4 compared to the 600pf that I own.
I happen to agree that there are setups that are too light in terms of handling especially in windy conditions. But the z8-600pf does not fall into that category at least for me. Also I find it does pretty well in the golden hour and even into the blue hour and with modern software the difference is even less. Also at f4 I often find not enough of the bird is in focus so I need to stop down a bit.
to spend 15k for a built in tc is a bit much for my budget. I do wish they would build a better lighter version of the 186 with top quality optics as this is a nice range for wildlife And better than the 104 for birds. I have the 104 and like it but wish it was longer.
I happen to agree that there are setups that are too light in terms of handling especially in windy conditions. But the z8-600pf does not fall into that category at least for me. Also I find it does pretty well in the golden hour and even into the blue hour and with modern software the difference is even less. Also at f4 I often find not enough of the bird is in focus so I need to stop down a bit.
to spend 15k for a built in tc is a bit much for my budget. I do wish they would build a better lighter version of the 186 with top quality optics as this is a nice range for wildlife And better than the 104 for birds. I have the 104 and like it but wish it was longer.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Welcome to BCGA lot of actual forest birding in South America and Asia (lot of walking, hiking), and a little bit of owl photography here in Canada. I am a bird lister and like to get best the possible pictures of a bird I see
The design of these two 600 primes are aimed at respective use types. The 600 f4E FL like its 400 sibling has has been relied on by many sports photographers, but also increasingly wildlife photographers who could handle the price as well as the weight. In the ideal world, the E FL primes are excellent in a Destination Kit, in a hide or vehicle or working on 3 or 1 extra legs with a good quality gimbal.
In 2018, I saved and traded in to afford a 400 f2.8E, which served very well until I could afford lighter telephotos, 4 years later.... Almost identical weight to the 600E, a handheld 400E often weighs more because we owners usually paired it with a TC. In fact, a high percentage of my images required a TC2 III, which stated the obvious... The 800 focal length is vital for my needs.
Steve's latest video refers on using focal length data toward decisions and more - comparing the 400 and 600 telephoto options.
I've not much experience of the 600E, besides testing it for short periods. Although longer than the 400E, all the E FL Nikkors including the 800 f5.6E, are well balanced; such that I was somewhat surprised to learn how a 3.8kg 400E+TC2 and gripped Pro DSLR is easier to handhold than the 300 f2.8G VR+ TC on the same camera. I prefer to carry heavy telephoto rigs on a padded sling clipped on to peak design clips on the tripod collar.
I mostly handheld my 400E on a gripped D850 or D5, usually 30sec average approx, but sometimes longer but shake kicks in quickly as one builds up a sweat! A light monopod and gimbal is a big help, or even better the Steadify hip monopod. A monopod sometimes makes framing subjects above one in tree canopies distinctly tricky.
Long lens hand holding support
I have tried many approaches over the years but alway find that a monopod with the right kind of head works out the best. I can wrap a leg around the monopod and have much more support for a heavy lens. I use a special head that only tilts in one direction, like the Benro DJ90. With the 600mm...
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fcotterill
Well-known member
The 600 PF is the quintessential Commando Kit telephoto and ideal for hiking Peripatetic Photography. There's arguably no better birder's telephoto, except the 800 PF. The image quality is judged to be extremely good and in the tier of exotic quality.
If the 600 PF is entirely a factory line assembled lens this speaks volumes for the quality of Nikon's assembly and quality control.... Considering how each E FL exotic is hand assembled, with careful quality checking by expert technicians in Tokyo; although not confirmed, this probably also applies to the manufacturing of S line 400 TC and 600 TC.
Canadian Pro, Brad Hill has written screes in his blog about most of the telephoto Nikkors, although he doesn't use 600 often apparently. Also see the detailed reviews on Photography Life.
bcgforums.com
photographylife.com
If the 600 PF is entirely a factory line assembled lens this speaks volumes for the quality of Nikon's assembly and quality control.... Considering how each E FL exotic is hand assembled, with careful quality checking by expert technicians in Tokyo; although not confirmed, this probably also applies to the manufacturing of S line 400 TC and 600 TC.
Canadian Pro, Brad Hill has written screes in his blog about most of the telephoto Nikkors, although he doesn't use 600 often apparently. Also see the detailed reviews on Photography Life.
Nikon Long lenses - Talk by Brad Hill Wed. Jul. 27
fyi Nikon's Long Lenses - A Rapidly Evolving Landscape - Wed. Jul. 27 Nikon's telephoto and super-telephoto lenses have undergone rapid evolution over the past few years. Along the way many long-held generalizations and assumptions about how Nikon's long lenses perform have been challenged or...
bcgforums.com
Nikon Z 600mm f/4 TC VR S Review - Page 3 of 6
This hands-on review covers everything you need to know about the Nikon Z 600mm f/4 TC VR S, including extensive field and lab tests.
photographylife.com
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Dionigi Colombo
Well-known member
Using the 600E for short periods is not a big problem if you have some trainingA lot of actual forest birding in South America and Asia (lot of walking, hiking), and a little bit of owl photography here in Canada. I am a bird lister and like to get best the possible pictures of a bird I see
Obviously the biggest advantage is in low light conditions, but the isolation/detachment from the background is also very different.
The 600Pf on its side is much more maneuverable and lighter to wield
I do many mountain walks with 500-1000m elevation gain and rarely carry the 500Pf instead of the 600/400E even though they weigh much more
Yup ... target rifles are barrel heavy for a reason.
I started "shooting" with barrel heavy target rifles when I was 12 and I have and do shoot hand held, target rifle style, with barrel heavy lenses Tamron 150-600 G2n (extended out to 600) , Nkon 200-500, Sigma 150-600 sport and 60-600 sport, Nikon 600 f/4E, Nikon Z800 f/6.3 and now Nikon Z600 f/4 TC. I have a Nikon Z600 f/6.3 and it has it's place on my lighter Z6III but takes more care to hold steady than my Z600 f/4 TC on my Z9.
Roy
Well-known member
The heavier the camera the more stability ...
viper699
Well-known member
Used the 600PF with my z8 in rainforest- no regrets!!! Light weight and excellent image quality for me.
Interestingly, I recently did an informal survey of Brad's actual lens use after his most recent gallery posts, and was surprised to find a fairly even split between the 400mm TC, the 600mm PF, and the 800mm PF. There were zero images posted that were captured with the 600mm TC. That data though could just be a reflection of the lenses he chose to bring on his most recent trips - which is also interesting.
Cheers!
xxx
Active member
I used to drill and fill stocks with lead to make them heavier. Less recoil too!
macwalter
Well-known member
I used to have the Nikon 300pf f4 lens and found it was often too light especially in windy conditions. I find the 600pf with the z8 is heavy enough overall but I would imagine the 600 tc would be more stable but too diff to hold for any length of time without support. I like some weight when shooting.