D
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I have zero brand loyalty. If Z9 is comparable and the 500pf works good I would be happy to buy one
Will the Nikon Z9 Deliver?
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abc123brian
Well-known member
For me, I cannot say I am loyal to any camera brand. Nikon is the one I am currently using. Looking at my order history, it was April 2019 when I bought my Z6 which is when I decided to start my move to Nikon. They have a lot of things I like with the Z series. I really hope the Z9 delivers as promised and that trickles down to a Z7iii or Z8. The eye AF and high FPS with electronic shutter are the weaker points in the system (assuming they get their long lenses released). When I evaluated the move to Nikon just over two years ago, Canon had the EOS R and RP. Nikon seemed to be in the stronger position at that time. How times have changed
. I did look at Sony a few times, but didn’t like what I was seeing at the time regarding lens lineup and wasn‘t a fan of their ergonomics. It seems they improved some in that regard. Sony’s AF was also pretty bad prior to the A9. If I were to move again, it would be back to Canon. I’m impressed with their R5 and really interested to see what they do once they start using stacked sensor technology.FB101
Well-known member
I honestly am not sure. That hypothetical Z9 that leap-frogs everybody (including making F mount lenses focus at full potential) would be available to the select few at year-end and to a larger number next summer, means trickle down not available to buy until summer 2023 at the earliest... when the R5 is here today and allows the EF 500 f:4 to work at full potential. That’s a long time to wait for some hypotheticals.
especially since what we are getting from Nikon in the meantime is a brown flash cover, a retro styled APSC body and not one bit of assurance that they can do what they say at this stage (I had not realized Olympus still sells more mirrorless than Nikon - and Olympus sold off that business because it had no future...).
It seems that you've pretty well made up your mind, but maybe the Z9 and associated products will be available sooner than you fear. One can always hope!
I am in alignment with what is said here except for my own, perhaps optimistic view that we ordinary folk will be able to buy a Z9 by summer 2022, not summer 2023. I see the first shipments at the end of this year, and then a six months' plus wait for people who get their orders in quickly. Yes, it will be much longer before the item is stocked constantly by dealers and begins to provide refurbs and goes on sale. But I plan to order right away, it's just a matter of deciding what dealer to try this time around.
FB101
Well-known member
The Z9 will be $6500 or likely more - that’s why I am not counting on an “affordable” trickle down before mid 2023... I am not ready to spend that kind of money on a body yet (on glass for sure). It’s not that $4000 is cheap by any stretch, but a bit more palatable.
O
Well-known member
Brilliantly expressed, we are all getting over the top as to having the ducks guts, wholly grail of cameras when as you say more money can be spent on trips etc.
I see advantages of a new item if their is a quantum changes and benefits, the industry and social media is great at having the tail wag the dog.
Yes its nice to have the top shelf high end gear but it need to be practical as well.
Example Getting the D850...I could not see a real benefit in image quality or capture changing in the real world the D3X to a D800, D810, or even the D800 E which the difference in models did not reveal enough overall benefit, I waited for the D850 to prove its reliability for 12 months before I made the move, I use the D3X as back up as its hard to sell with high shutter count. I mean I bought it for $5K AUD when the D3s D700 was the fashion.
I bought the D850 not for its M Pix but for that fact I wanted a tilt screen believe it or not, laying on my belly on a wet rock in the middle of a rapid river shooting a waterfall at low level I couldn't see the screen as the camera was siting flat on the rock.. later Nikon showed me the frame rate of the D850 with the grip 9 fps, it was plenty and impressive for a 45 mp.
I used this D850 or a week or two then bought one. AB tests on lenses and stuff and what I found was that the micro contrast and colour and detail was very nice, it was more apparent when I started using the 300 2.8 VR II, it certainly made the 28-300 look better than I had seen before LOL, the 80-200 D was excellent I did have a brilliant sample of course $500 from a op shop with scratches no hood rough as, but at F2.8 or F5.6 it was just sharp, it was a well worn sweet one. Along came the 70-200 FL I borrowed from Nikon and then I saw some real talent from the D850, it was amazing, even the 80-200 D really sang love songs.
I bought the 70-200 FL, one thing stood out I began to question what I was doing and as I was using the D850, 300 2.8 VR II, 600 F4, 70-200 FL 1.4 III TC, I found dust getting on the D4s D5, yes the D5 machine style was exciting but when back in the office the images from the D850 with the insane gropability dynamic range just said hey there is a lot of capital gathering dust on the shelf, I let the images do the talking, I have sold the D4s D5 no regrets, got a second D850 and haven't looked back.
Now this is not everyone's cup of tea but hay I haven't really needed a D4s D5 D6 Since, one the rare occasion I would I borrow or hire, I even sold the 600 F4, I found 420mm on the 300 2.8 VR II on the D850 for what I do was so good, I could crop massively, and I didn't need a Sherpa to carry the 600 F4 plus.
I look forward to the Z9 if its 45 or 60 mp plus 30 fps plus etc etc but I need to ask what will I gain where and how, the cost? and then I need new glass to justify its horse power etc.
Then I don't want to be the first test case on the block, i mean even if its what they all crow it to be. I will let the Z9 come out for 12 - 18 months to sort itself out, after all its about photography and and the journey, not about feeling left behind.
Only and opinion as always
Oz Down Under
Ah, I misunderstood your previous post, i.e., I didn't think in terms of the still-theoretical Z8 instead of the distant-but-actually-announced Z9. Yeah, an R5-level camera would be my first choice, but like you, I don't want to wait two years for it. I really wish they had developed a $4000 camera before the $6500 one, yep. I will dig down to the bottom of my saddlebags and try to find enough gold to pay for the Z9. At least I have some time to plan for it.
If it were not for the A1 and to a lesser extent, the R5/R6, I would be very happy with the D850, D500, D6, and Z6 II and Z7 II. But damn it, the competition once again out did Nikon. Happens frequently enough but in this case they really blew Nikon out of the water. If the Z6 II and Z7 ii had decent eye focus on wide variety of animals including birds, not just pets, they would be close. A major firmware could fix this, but not sure they deliver. At times it seems that Nikon is it own worse enemy, They suffer from complacency and the suddenly the giant wakes up and they surprise us. Not sure if they will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat this time, at least not in time for the Toyko Olympics with first delivery to NPS members this year. I can only wish .. can keep my credit card in my wallet. I am tempted to go with Sony for action and Nikon for everything else. But i really hate have two systems. A recipe for trouble. I am not as mentally agile as I once was.
O
Well-known member
Had this conversation last Tuesday amongst a group of club members and it was seriously bizar....and they are serious bid wild life shooters' as well.
You go Sony, then Nikon comes out with its Z9, Sony already as the counter Z9 and Z8 catch up model poised waiting for the Z9 to land, Sony and Nikon talk and are very close, they do business together.
You see with the massive loss of global sales for the G3 the G3 need to move with new innovation, refresh frequent models that fit the market and rapidly, something Nikon cant do easily, with Nikon every I and T needs to be crossed from the ground floor to the top as the CYA culture runs rife. Decisions are not forth coming easily and politics rules.
Enough of that, so you go and buy your Z9 your first to try it out, we grab bragging rights as to how cool it is and its a Wow camera and everyone rushes in to buy like they do when a New iPhone is released, cool, you have the Z9, you bank balance is wounded, now you have nearly every other person you know getting a Z9, so where or what has been been achieved other than your bank balance has been savaged, you love it and are so happy......and that's where we all want to be, but 4 weeks later Sony announces a 60mp 40 fps lock on tracking under night vision condition 8 million iso level, etc etc with auto tracking for the eyes of a mosquito at 500 yards.
Then what
Change is inevitable, change is good, cash is like water in the desert, use it sparingly, don't agonize over the Z9 or Z8 until its proven itself, look at the number of models that have come out from the G3 in the last 4 years, its only the beginning, don't worry Nikon will use text book supply tactics like they did with the 500 PF all to achieve price.
Look how much more expensive the new Z lenses are compared to the FX $1050 versus $1690.
Its all a game and we are the players........I hope the Z9 is a D850 moment, I hope Nikon comes good.
Ask your self has anyone truly completely utterly out grown their D780, D850, D5 , D6..........Good on Sony for setting the bar...
fcotterill
Well-known member
All the persisting ranting and doom on the www bashing Nikon and predicting its demise is so much nonsense. These notions predicting Nikon's demise have obviously failed to even glance at Nikon's relatively high R&D budget. Scanning the global patent library reveals Nikon continues to register a flood of patents, over the past year often several/day.
Further contrary to trolls, the company's expansion into mirrorless grew from the Nikon 1, with R&D invested as they waited to revenues profits from hgh-volum DSLR business and migrate tighter production into smaller ILC turnovers. The Z9 and whatever else over the coming months will match the D6. PLUS we can expect innovations in Nikon's mirrorless system that can only be guessed at.
Yes, they are company of engineers with an outdated perspective on marketing etc, but are embracing new web services (eg Youtube). Never underestimate the reach of their ambassadors (official and other), who demonstrate . They are very prominent on Instagram etc and in NatGeo etc. What really matters is the quality and performance of their products. Unique lenses such as pair PF of telephotos and so many others. The current telephoto range is impressive (bank account permitting!). And there's more, quite a lot more; for the modest budgets there is the huge inventory of affordable Used lenses and Used ILCs of Choice at bargain prices.
The bottom line is the Z cameras will catchup in AF, frame rate etc, including Silent-shutters. Nevertheless, it is unlikely photographers' skills regularly outreach the inherent potential under the hood of a D500/D850 let alone D5 and D6. As Thom Hogan and Photography life conclude, every Z-mount lens rates at very least an excellent investment.
photographylife.com
Further contrary to trolls, the company's expansion into mirrorless grew from the Nikon 1, with R&D invested as they waited to revenues profits from hgh-volum DSLR business and migrate tighter production into smaller ILC turnovers. The Z9 and whatever else over the coming months will match the D6. PLUS we can expect innovations in Nikon's mirrorless system that can only be guessed at.
Yes, they are company of engineers with an outdated perspective on marketing etc, but are embracing new web services (eg Youtube). Never underestimate the reach of their ambassadors (official and other), who demonstrate . They are very prominent on Instagram etc and in NatGeo etc. What really matters is the quality and performance of their products. Unique lenses such as pair PF of telephotos and so many others. The current telephoto range is impressive (bank account permitting!). And there's more, quite a lot more; for the modest budgets there is the huge inventory of affordable Used lenses and Used ILCs of Choice at bargain prices.
The bottom line is the Z cameras will catchup in AF, frame rate etc, including Silent-shutters. Nevertheless, it is unlikely photographers' skills regularly outreach the inherent potential under the hood of a D500/D850 let alone D5 and D6. As Thom Hogan and Photography life conclude, every Z-mount lens rates at very least an excellent investment.
Nikon Z-Mount FX Lens Reviews | Thom Hogan
Reviews of Nikon Z mount FX Nikkors for mirrorless cameras
www.zsystemuser.com
Nikon Z Lens Roadmap (Updated October 2024)
Wondering about the Nikon Z lens roadmap? In this article, we detail everything we know about the upcoming lenses for the Z mount.
photographylife.com
O
Well-known member
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I know new technology will provide some benfits and yes like the D850 that came along it was a really worth while move.
I think that rules are meant to be broken, one needs to ask have i out grown what i have, after all cameras are really all much the same used properly, they only use time light and speed....oh yes and now tracking LOl.
First image is the D3X at 2.8..... 300mm 2.8 VR II, IMAGE 1/5000ss F2.8, -0.7ev iso 250.
The second image is the D4s on the 28-300 travel zoom lens hand held, the D4s had steam coming of the 28-300 3.5-5.6 lens LOL,
IMAGE 210mm F7.1 1/3200 SS -1EV ISO 320 NOTE THE ANIMAL EYE TRACKING I have had it for 15 years LOL
Some fun images have been down sized massively and don't really represent the detail in the originals, may be I went to far, the words on the saddle are clear as on my jpeg but not here.
Oz down under
Last edited:
O
Well-known member
All the persisting ranting and doom on the www bashing Nikon and predicting its demise is so much nonsense. These notions predicting Nikon's demise have obviously failed to even glance at Nikon's relatively high R&D budget. Scanning the global patent library reveals Nikon continues to register a flood of patents, over the past year often several/day.
Further contrary to trolls, the company's expansion into mirrorless grew from the Nikon 1, with R&D invested as they waited to revenues profits from hgh-volum DSLR business and migrate tighter production into smaller ILC turnovers. The Z9 and whatever else over the coming months will match the D6. PLUS we can expect innovations in Nikon's mirrorless system that can only be guessed at.
Yes, they are company of engineers with an outdated perspective on marketing etc, but are embracing new web services (eg Youtube). Never underestimate the reach of their ambassadors (official and other), who demonstrate . They are very prominent on Instagram etc and in NatGeo etc. What really matters is the quality and performance of their products. Unique lenses such as pair PF of telephotos and so many others. The current telephoto range is impressive (bank account permitting!). And there's more, quite a lot more; for the modest budgets there is the huge inventory of affordable Used lenses and Used ILCs of Choice at bargain prices.
The bottom line is the Z cameras will catchup in AF, frame rate etc, including Silent-shutters. Nevertheless, it is unlikely photographers' skills regularly outreach the inherent potential under the hood of a D500/D850 let alone D5 and D6. As Thom Hogan and Photography life conclude, every Z-mount lens rates at very least an excellent investment.
Nikon Z-Mount FX Lens Reviews | Thom Hogan
Reviews of Nikon Z mount FX Nikkors for mirrorless cameraswww.zsystemuser.com
Nikon Z Lens Roadmap (Updated October 2024)
Wondering about the Nikon Z lens roadmap? In this article, we detail everything we know about the upcoming lenses for the Z mount.
I feel there merit in some of the points your making, yes the BS we all go on about the Z9 and Nikon etc dragging its heals is a bit draining for some, and it has been flogged to death now, but loyal frustrated Nikon owners are being given BS in return for years of dedicated support for Nikon who in return only feed us all bread and water at top dollar till Sony saw what a bad job Nikon and Canon were doing and decided to give customers what they wanted, Sony took 25% market share of Nikon in one fowl swoop that tells you Nikon is a on a color and lead under the thumb of share holders to put profit before the market, or Nikon is asleep resting on loreals, its not the engineers that are at fault, the fish rots from the head not the tail.
Nikon either gave Sony the keys to the door or were not home long enough to see the house being robbed.
Nikon just dribbled out the usual bread and water, Nikon owners don't deserve this.
I feel their is no sense of bringing out a lot of new gear if many new patents for new revolutionary concepts are all looming, I sort of see the difficult situation but the whole connection between brand manufacturer existing loyal consumers and new ones has been handled badly..........a flick of a switch can fix the Nikon tracking issue, its not rocket science.
Nikon is a brilliant company and makes excellent gear when it wants and it will come good to play leap frog, their just doing it all in a real poxy way.
Their pricing will be steep, supply as usual will be tight, Sony and Canon will have shadow models to offer is not unrealistic to assume.
Given all the patents being lodged could mean that it could simply be a future proof defense move by Nikon that will space Nikon from Sony and Canon.
Hey its all good, we have just got to wait till things happen, I want a 60mp 40 fps silent small camera with light lenses all at respectable prices.
While being left behind by Nikon goes on it dose drastically damage the value of our existing systems/gear that we have all invested in.
Each Month Nikon drags its heals we are loosing the value in our gear, added to that Nikon is making parts available for existing gear harder to get for repairs.
Only an opinion Oz down under
Only an opinion OZ down under.
I took the same path with the Sony a1 for action and Nikon D850 for everything else. That was the intention but not the outcome. I like the a1 so much I have now bought 3 Sony lenses and have begun selling the Nikon lenses and soon my last Nikon body so I can replace with Sony gear. I didn't expect it but the Sony is just so much more enjoyable and capable of a camera that I would much rather use it then the D850, Z6 and D500 I have owned.
My first non action Sony lens I bought was the 90mm macro and when compared to how the a1 performed vs the D850 with a Nikon 105 micro it was a quick nail in the coffin for the Nikon. Then I picked up the new Sony 14mm 1.8 and tried it side by side with my D850 and Nikon 14-24 f2.8 G and damn the new Sony 14mm blew it away. Again not what I expected but the results are the results.
So my intentions of two systems has quickly changed as the Sony has proven to be better. The more I talk to folks who have gone to Sony that have left Canon and Nikon we have all had the same journey. Mark Smith and his video is a perfect example of exactly what I have been going through.
Not out grown the Dxxx but noticed the number of images that are nearly tack sharp but not quite. I have heard that an A1 and to a lesser extent a R5/R6 would have a higher keep rate. Equipment costs are less than I spend on travel, especially when I look over several years. Do I need more keeper now or can I wait a stick w Nikon and get them in a year or so. That is the question ...
That's me Rich. At 76 I don't know how many more years of schlepping gear for wildlife photography are left. Since I am in the home stretch a year or more wait for Nikon to try to get competitive with SONY with regard to AF performance is the question for me. Nikon has done zero in the past four years to inspire any confidence they can deliver, talk is cheap. I am still setting July 23, the start of the Olympics to make a decision with hopes Nikon shows something other than a retro crop camera.
I guess I am a youngster at 68. Starting to travel this year but more to come next. I have begun to use the Z7 in lieu of the D850 and like it compared to what Sony and Canon can deliver, I find it lacking.
For that price range the z7 looks like a heck of a camera. I'm a Canon loyalist but they have nothing yet in the under $2k range to compare. The original EOS R is similar price but it is old tech now and due for an upgrade.
The Z7 is a nice camera, The Z7 II fixes a few problems in the original design - dual cards, larger buffer, grip with a shutter button. Just I want more ..
abc123brian
Well-known member
I am with you in wanting more. I have been using the Z7ii since early this year, and while is it a great camera for just about everything, it is lacking a bit for wildlife. It really meets about 90% of what I am using it for so it is easy for me to be patient and see what Nikon is going to release. For people who are shooting mostly BIF or other challenging AF scenarios, I can understand the bigger concerns and more of the I need something now thinking. While Sony and Canon currently both offer the better AF performance and lenses for wildlife, I don’t feel either offer the complete system as of right now. This is why I am waiting things out a bit longer.
Having switched systems before, my experience made me realize a few things other than it being expensive. First is trying to shoot two systems isn’t much fun. If you have one system for wildlife and one for landscape and take a big trip where you plan to do both, you really need to bring a backup for each system because, for example, if your landscape camera goes down your 200-600mm isn’t the best backup option. It takes longer to be able to quickly grab a camera and shoot in an instant when the dials are in different places (not to mention Nikon seems to make everything rotate opposite of everyone else). Unless you’re a pro, my opinion is it is best to choose one and go with it; even if that means changing systems. With that said, you really want to make sure whichever you choose has the lenses you want/need covered and not just on a roadmap or assumed someday future release. I spent a few years waiting on a super telephoto from Fuji that never came to be.
With all of that said, I would consider a Canon R5 + 100-500mm or Sony A9ii + 200-600mm as a temporary solution if I had a need until deciding on a direction to go.
If I get tired of waiting or need something for an upcoming trip, .. I could stick with my D850/Z7 II combo and lose some images due to lack of critical focus or trying something new and lose some images from not knowing the system. The devil you know vs the devil you don't.
I shot Canon for nearly 20 years and switch to Nikon shortly after the D5 came out. I still try to turn dial in the Canon direction
Doug Herr
Well-known member
I shot Canon for nearly 20 years and switch to Nikon shortly after the D5 came out. I still try to turn dial in the Canon direction
Recent Sony bodies allow you to choose the direction you turn the dials.
eaj101
Well-known member
So do Nikons.
If you have a Nikkor 600mm you want to sell, let me know!
I think people get befuddled by the different directions that lens zoom rings turn. Nikon and Canon are famously opposite.