Will the Nikon Z9 Deliver?

[NorthernFocus]

...BTW the photos that served me well in the 1970s are no longer selling. Buyers' standards have changed along with the equipment for making the photos.

Ain't it the truth. There is an hotel here in town that has its wall adorned with aging prints taken wit film by professional wildlife photographers. First I'm amazed at what they were able to accomplish with ASA25 or 64 slide film and manual focus lenses. Kudos all around. On the other hand, these forums are full of images that are better than the ones adorning those walls. Equipment does make a difference. Maybe not as much in some types of photography but with moving targets, yes.

 

[DaveR]

When other commercial photographers use the capabilities of newer equipment to competitive advantage the overall standards have changed and photos produced with existing gear will be less in demand. It's true that the photo is created in the photographer's mind but when equipment's capabilities are limiting the expression of the photographer's vision a change may be in order.

Yes there is something in what you say. Take bird photography. Back in the early days of film there were no long lenses to speak of. It was amazing to see a picture of say, an Osprey, perched completely still and it would have been in black and white! Then it moved to colour and the low iso meant it was still a picture of a perched bird but it was cutting edge to see it in colour. With better lenses and cameras came better film and it moved to getting a bird in flight. Now we want the Osprey emeging from the water with a fish taken at a long distance away, pin sharp with frozen water droplets and advances of photography have made what was unthinkable a few decades ago in reach.

Google Eric Hosking. One of the first photographers to capture a barn owl in flight. Look at the gear he had to use to get that shot which was considered to be amazing at the time. He used to cause so much disruption setting up his equipment at the owls nest one day an owl attacked him and he lost an eye.

The gear we have available now makes shots we could only dream of a few years ago possible but that little bit of magic that makes a great shot comes from behind the camera.

 

[DaveR]

I didn't mean making money off photography, I did one wedding gratis and that was more than enough for me. I think I would enjoy a $6500 Alpha 1 with animal eye tracking, a functional EVF, etc......
I don't understand why so many people are down on the new technology??? They can keep shooting dlsr or film if they enjoy it.

Sorry, I thought you were saying you would like to make a living out of photography. Yeah doing a wedding would be enough to put most people off. Try doing one in a thunderstorm lol

I'm not down on the new technology. I'm eager to embrace it as there are advantages I think would be very useful. I just don't think it is the right time to make the change just yet. I'm looking to allow it to mature a bit more rather than embrace the first thing that comes along. I don't have to rely on it to make my living anymore and that is such a luxury.

 

[RichF]

As a side note, I tried hummers with it the other night. Bird-eye AF, Wide AF Area, and focus was spot on every time! Best hummingbird camera I've ever used

Do you mean with the Sony A1? Which lens or lenses?

 

[RichF]

Will the Z9 deliver? Interesting question to which no one has a answer for sure as Nikon have kept secret any details regarding the camera.

The R5 was launched about 12 months ago, the Sony A1 back in January. Both have had people praising their AF and general performance and rightly so as it was a major leap forward.

The only thing I know for sure is that something is going to come along soon that will blow them out of the water as technology is moving ahead at pace as it always does. Whether it will be Canon with it's R3 or R1, Nikon Z9 or maybe Z8 or another Sony body I don't know but the next few months (and years) will be an interesting time for sure.

I will not be investing in any of them just yet but I am itching to buy into mirrorless for it's obvious advantages.

I am sitting on the fence but not sure how much longer I can wait

 

[DaveR]

I am sitting on the fence but not sure how much longer I can wait

Lol. You're not alone. Many of the forum members are on that fence.

 

[DaveR]

Back to the subject at hand, I have no doubt Nikon will catch up with the competition. I'll be shocked if the Z9 isn't an awesome product as good or better than what the competitions is offering. It's just late to the party and I have to be home by midnight.

Lol. I like the way you have put that. Like you midnight is coming up fast for me.

I share you views on new gear and am pleased to hear you have moved to 'low impact hunting'.

 

[O]

It's relatively easy and inexpensive way of getting your stuff on display. I love the feel of a print in my hands.

I got the idea from this guy

Thankyou so much regards

Oz down under

 

[O]

Oh you so SO right when you say 90% comes from the person behind the lens, I'd maybe put that figure even higher.

Having said that gear is important and I've always looked at new stuff that comes out. Mirrorless technology looks like it could be very useful in what is now my hobby. Bird eye tracking, silent shutter and real time exposure in your viewfinder are very appealing to me.

Absolutely so, its just if your Nikon the fruit is not ripe enough for picking just yet, and Sony is excellent but I would stay with Nikon for reasons that will become apparent.
Nikon is a pain in the but big time and they are dragging their heals for several reasons.
I know Sony is on the money at the moment but I don't like Sony as a Company to invest in, what do I do with all the XQD gear, everything you buy one moment is obsolete the next, their like a phone company and I can understand why they want to grab market share while Nikon is sleeping or Nikon is letting them convert people into mirrorless for them, then Nikon plays the trump card and wins everyone over again LOL. Its exciting isn't it.

But I do respect Sony for getting the industry moving.

Only an opinion Oz down under

 

[Doug Herr]

Do you mean with the Sony A1? Which lens or lenses?

I'm not Steve but the Bird Eye AF and wide AF area of the a1 combined with the 600 GM make an outstanding hummingbird camera.

 

[Steve]

Do you mean with the Sony A1? Which lens or lenses?

I was using the 600 GM and 2X TC with 'em yesterday at about 18 feet. Tiny little things! Eye AF worked really well.

 

[Doug Herr]

I was using the 600 GM and 2X TC with 'em yesterday at about 18 feet. Tiny little things! Eye AF worked really well.

I find that the a1 takes a little longer to find the eye (up to 1 sec) if the eye and the surrounding plumage are both dark.

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I'm very impressed with the Bird Eye AF.

 

[Steve]

I find that the a1 takes a little longer to find the eye (up to 1 sec) if the eye and the surrounding plumage are both dark.

View attachment 20988

View attachment 20989​

I'm very impressed with the Bird Eye AF.

Nice shots!
Yes, I have noticed a very slight delay. I have a feeder outside my window and when the bird pulls back, I focus and shoot. It does take a quick second to get on the eye. Still, I'm not sure I'm any faster with just a single AF point doing it myself

 

[GrandNagus50]

Yes there is something in what you say. Take bird photography. Back in the early days of film there were no long lenses to speak of. It was amazing to see a picture of say, an Osprey, perched completely still and it would have been in black and white! Then it moved to colour and the low iso meant it was still a picture of a perched bird but it was cutting edge to see it in colour. With better lenses and cameras came better film and it moved to getting a bird in flight. Now we want the Osprey emeging from the water with a fish taken at a long distance away, pin sharp with frozen water droplets and advances of photography have made what was unthinkable a few decades ago in reach.

Google Eric Hosking. One of the first photographers to capture a barn owl in flight. Look at the gear he had to use to get that shot which was considered to be amazing at the time. He used to cause so much disruption setting up his equipment at the owls nest one day an owl attacked him and he lost an eye.

The gear we have available now makes shots we could only dream of a few years ago possible but that little bit of magic that makes a great shot comes from behind the camera.

I have to mention here the role and work of the great Eliot Porter. His color images of (usually) nesting birds, including wood warblers, are what got me interested in bird photography in the mid-1960s. He went to incredible lengths to get these images, including building platforms, setting up multiple lights and flashes (flash bulbs), etc. Here is an article that discusses his achievements in this area:

Eliot Porter: Birds large and small — Blind Magazine

A pioneer of nature color photography, American Eliot Porter got interested in birds very early on. The Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, TX, is devoting an exhibition to the photographer’s subject of choice.

www.blind-magazine.com

 

[GrandNagus50]

Interesting, what do you feel the Z9 Z8 will do for your photography differently.....

Oz down under

I think there are instances in which having animal/bird eye AF will allow me to acquire focus more quickly and get some shots I currently tend to miss. I am not certain just how much difference a stacked sensor will make, but I suspect there will be image improvements associated with this.
But really, I know full well there will be no night-and-day differences. After all, I currently use the Olympus OM-D-EM1X along with my Nikon gear, and this camera has bird-eye focus and also ProCapture plus the capacity for multiple settings, and I do not find these make a huge difference in my actual in-the-field experience. Bird eye focus does not work in all situations, and actually, unless a bird is moving really rapidly I usually can acquire eye focus all on my own. I will add that I am not an adherent to the Holy Grail of BIF as the pinnacle of bird photography, but I suspect that with the Sony Alpha 1 or the upcoming Nikon Z9 birds in flight images will be a little easier to nail.

 

[DaveR]

I have to mention here the role and work of the great Eliot Porter. His color images of (usually) nesting birds, including wood warblers, are what got me interested in bird photography in the mid-1960s. He went to incredible lengths to get these images, including building platforms, setting up multiple lights and flashes (flash bulbs), etc. Here is an article that discusses his achievements in this area:

Eliot Porter: Birds large and small — Blind Magazine

A pioneer of nature color photography, American Eliot Porter got interested in birds very early on. The Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, TX, is devoting an exhibition to the photographer’s subject of choice.

www.blind-magazine.com

Thanks for that . Amazing what these guys went through to get their shots.

 

[Maljo]

Lol. You're not alone. Many of the forum members are on that fence.

That fence is going to collapse under all our weight!

 

[Steve]

I think there are instances in which having animal/bird eye AF will allow me to acquire focus more quickly and get some shots I currently tend to miss. I am not certain just how much difference a stacked sensor will make, but I suspect there will be image improvements associated with this.
But really, I know full well there will be no night-and-day differences. After all, I currently use the Olympus OM-D-EM1X along with my Nikon gear, and this camera has bird-eye focus and also ProCapture plus the capacity for multiple settings, and I do not find these make a huge difference in my actual in-the-field experience. Bird eye focus does not work in all situations, and actually, unless a bird is moving really rapidly I usually can acquire eye focus all on my own. I will add that I am not an adherent to the Holy Grail of BIF as the pinnacle of bird photography, but I suspect that with the Sony Alpha 1 or the upcoming Nikon Z9 birds in flight images will be a little easier to nail.

Eye-AF is more of a game-changer than most think it is. It's not just that it always focuses on the eye, it's the way it frees you up to focus on composition. It's also amazingly handy with active little subjects like the fox kit below. His head was bopping all over and normally that would mean 90% of my attention would be on keeping an AF point glued to his eye. The a1 did that for me and allowed me to simply focus on composition instead. If you've ever had an active animal - even a static one - in the viewfinder, you know how much effort it takes to keep an AF point on the eye. With the camera doing it, it's like a breath of fresh air and it's so much more fun to concentrate more on the artistic aspects of an image than playing with the AF area.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[FB101]

Eye-AF is more of a game-changer than most think it is. It's not just that it always focuses on the eye, it's the way it frees you up to focus on composition. It's also amazingly handy with active little subjects like the fox kit below. His head was bopping all over and normally that would mean 90% of my attention would be on keeping an AF point glued to his eye. The a1 did that for me and allowed me to simply focus on composition instead. If you've ever had an active animal - even a static one - in the viewfinder, you know how much effort it takes to keep an AF point on the eye. With the camera doing it, it's like a breath of fresh air and it's so much more fun to concentrate more on the artistic aspects of an image than playing with the AF area.

View attachment 21010

I wonder where you find all those stuffed animals you keep taking pictures of, they are so realistic all kidding aside, this is a magical shot

 

[Steve]

I wonder where you find all those stuffed animals you keep taking pictures of, they are so realistic all kidding aside, this is a magical shot

The key is to keep them in your backpack at all times for slow days

 

[Doug Herr]

I have to mention here the role and work of the great Eliot Porter. His color images of (usually) nesting birds, including wood warblers, are what got me interested in bird photography in the mid-1960s. He went to incredible lengths to get these images, including building platforms, setting up multiple lights and flashes (flash bulbs), etc. Here is an article that discusses his achievements in this area:

Eliot Porter: Birds large and small — Blind Magazine

A pioneer of nature color photography, American Eliot Porter got interested in birds very early on. The Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, TX, is devoting an exhibition to the photographer’s subject of choice.

www.blind-magazine.com

Note the camera he's using: a 4x5 view camera. He also did things we wouldn't dream of doing (at least I hope we wouldn't) to get his photos, such as cutting a limb the nest was on and gradually lowering it to camera level.

 

[O]

I find that the a1 takes a little longer to find the eye (up to 1 sec) if the eye and the surrounding plumage are both dark.

View attachment 20988

View attachment 20989​

I'm very impressed with the Bird Eye AF.

Nice, I am wondering, may I ask what settings you used and this is at 1200mm ?

Oz down under

 

[O]

There is trend emerging partuclarly at Auctions where well known o

Ain't it the truth. There is an hotel here in town that has its wall adorned with aging prints taken wit film by professional wildlife photographers. First I'm amazed at what they were able to accomplish with ASA25 or 64 slide film and manual focus lenses. Kudos all around. On the other hand, these forums are full of images that are better than the ones adorning those walls. Equipment does make a difference. Maybe not as much in some types of photography but with moving targets, yes.

There is a trend emerging where old film shots from the 70s 80s even back to the 40s are gathering attention at major Auctions and some what sort after, many are grainy soft
no real detail etc etc by comparison to today yet people are paying $10 to $50k plus on average depending on who the photographer is, what sells is the name composition and subject and its a C type photo. Ansell Adams is one that comes to mind, but there are so many others that are portrait, street, photography as well.

I often like to just walk around with the DF and a 50mm Zeiss, ultra light compact tripod that acts as a mono pod and riffle stock all in one, and manually compose in camera black and white shots in Raw that also gives me a colour image and black and white image at the same time, I go for the city and harborside in early foggy morning, rainy days or after mid night....no people or traffic.
Even more so if its torrential all day stormy rain, I jump the train and pull up in the heart of Sydney near the opera house and go for it, people rushing around water splashing umbrellas blown in reverse as people fight the windy wet conditions....I do what they call Leica shooting, pre focus sit and wait, I mean the masters did it in the 30s 40s and so well, it grounds me and challenges me, gives me a break from all the auto stuff LOL. Although I have been known to use the D850 and 24-70 but in Tiff mono only.

You have to respect the real photographers of the past........

Oz down under

 

[O]

I transitioned from hunting to photography when I realized that being in nature was what I enjoyed, not shooting things. I call wildlife photography "low impact hunting". It's basically the same thing. But even more difficult. I didn't used to like PP but now I do. For me spending time with an image lets me re-live the moment all over again. Sometimes years after the fact. The images that I consider to be my best are rarely the ones that other people like. I know that's because I have an emotional attachment to the ones that I really like. I sell what others like, I hang my faves at home.

As far as the lure of the next best technical innovation, no, not needed at this point. The level of tech with the gear that I currently have is more than adequate to produce stunning photos. But I'm a technical person and I do enjoy operating well designed/functional equipment. Plus I'm not getting any younger and anything that will shave a pound or two off of a camera/lens combo is worth a look. And finally, I go through a lot of time/effort/expense in pursuit of wildlife imagery. So any technical edge that I can get to ensure I come away from those efforts with satisfying results is at least worth considering.

Back to the subject at hand, I have no doubt Nikon will catch up with the competition. I'll be shocked if the Z9 isn't an awesome product as good or better than what the competitions is offering. It's just late to the party and I have to be home by midnight.

I am with you on this 100%, enjoy what you have that's delivering results but keep an eye on what's coming, hence I went from a D3X I loved for years straight to the D850 and unloaded the D4s D5 along the way for a second D850 with a grip..9 fps is plenty for what I do.
You are blessed to have access to such wild beautiful wild life.

May I ask what you main kit is currently....

OZ down Under

 

[Doug Herr]

Nice, I am wondering, may I ask what settings you used and this is at 1200mm ?

Oz down under

600mm at minimum focus distance, some cropping. The hummingbirds have seen me in the yard enough that getting close isn't a problem (they also know who keeps the feeder filled, demanding attention when I've been neglecting it). Bird Eye AF, wide area, f/5.6, ISO probably 1000+, shutter speed about 1/500th sec, fully electronic shutter. Light is diffused sunlight.

I typically engage AF while the bird is at the feeder, giving it time to find the eye. When the bird backs away from the feeder the AF sticks to the eye and I press the button.