Wow! Did not see this coming. A1 vs R3 vs Z9 from DPReview
- Thread starter John Woodworth
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One thing is that DPReview are totally unbiased.
Strodav
Well-known member
Had not seen it yet and really enjoyed it, so thanks for sharing. DPReview is one of my favorite sources of information. I have no idea when the pre-order for my Z9 will be filled, but I'm hoping before the spring bird migration here in SE Tx.
tickle_my_nikon
Active member
Yeah, I was going to ask ... who are they leaning towards these days?
That seemed like an almost fair comparison. It sure proves that Nikon shooters love their Nikons, Sony shooters love their Sony's, and Canon users love their Canons.
Also interesting that they called it a flagship comparison, since the r3 is more of a niche camera with only 24mpx compared to the do everything Sony and Nikon. Have to wait for the Canon R1 to really go apples to apples.
Also interesting that they called it a flagship comparison, since the r3 is more of a niche camera with only 24mpx compared to the do everything Sony and Nikon. Have to wait for the Canon R1 to really go apples to apples.
Final score had Z9 and R3 tied for first place.
Take aways for me:
A1, R3, Z9 all seem like winners. More like the network effect, or individuals' side issues, that may swing the choice one way or the other.
R3 seems to get a hit on the 24 MPix, lower than the other two, but of course some photogs would prefer this.
A1 is a small form factor which is a consideration for some. Also, I am thinking that on paper it has the edge in specs, particularly evf resolution and RAW frame rate.
Z9 dominates with video and price.
There is a bit of bickering about af performance, mirroring what I see if I just surf the interwebz across the various forums.
A1, R3, Z9 all seem like winners. More like the network effect, or individuals' side issues, that may swing the choice one way or the other.
R3 seems to get a hit on the 24 MPix, lower than the other two, but of course some photogs would prefer this.
A1 is a small form factor which is a consideration for some. Also, I am thinking that on paper it has the edge in specs, particularly evf resolution and RAW frame rate.
Z9 dominates with video and price.
There is a bit of bickering about af performance, mirroring what I see if I just surf the interwebz across the various forums.
Yes! There is a comment about Canon specifically not calling the R3 a flagship, and Chris Nickols fires off a shot near the end about it the next Canon eating the other two for lunch when the real Canon flagship appears (presumably the R1).
tickle_my_nikon
Active member
I just watched that. It's one of the worst reviews I've ever seen. Basically three fan bois from each brand arguing specs to cameras they don't own.
Save yourself 19 minutes, and just bring up the three specs side by side on your computer. That's all they discussed. Useless video.
I agree with the general sentiment that all three camera systems are very close now. If Canon did a 45-50 / 60mp refresh, it would be essentially the same as the other two. That's the only real drawback to the Canon, and I understand why they haven't made the leap to high megapixel counts (since the D6 is still under 24mp).
At this point the decision should once again be about which system has the best LENS lineup for you, and which system you want to invest in for LENSES.
Save yourself 19 minutes, and just bring up the three specs side by side on your computer. That's all they discussed. Useless video.
I agree with the general sentiment that all three camera systems are very close now. If Canon did a 45-50 / 60mp refresh, it would be essentially the same as the other two. That's the only real drawback to the Canon, and I understand why they haven't made the leap to high megapixel counts (since the D6 is still under 24mp).
At this point the decision should once again be about which system has the best LENS lineup for you, and which system you want to invest in for LENSES.
Calson
Well-known member
Comparing a 24MP R3 to two 45MP cameras makes no sense at all. It should have been the R5 in the comparison/evaluation.
Only Canon has the 100-500mm zoom and only Nikon has the 500mm PF lens (and soon the 800mm PF lens). I switched to the D3 in 2007 in large part to get away from the mediocre performance of the Canon L series 16-35mm f/2.8 and 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses and their fragile 5D cameras where the mirror would fall out when making a lens change. Many wedding photographers shooting with Canon DSLR cameras at the time used Tamron lenses to get better autofocus performance and accuracy.
In terms of a pro 45MP camera with integrated vertical grip and using high capacity batteries only the Z9 fits the bill. Canon is still going after the sports shooter with the R3.
It was disappointing that the Z7 II cannot use EN-EL18 batteries in the optional grip as this reduces its performance and keeps the camera from being a true backup for the Z9.
Only Canon has the 100-500mm zoom and only Nikon has the 500mm PF lens (and soon the 800mm PF lens). I switched to the D3 in 2007 in large part to get away from the mediocre performance of the Canon L series 16-35mm f/2.8 and 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses and their fragile 5D cameras where the mirror would fall out when making a lens change. Many wedding photographers shooting with Canon DSLR cameras at the time used Tamron lenses to get better autofocus performance and accuracy.
In terms of a pro 45MP camera with integrated vertical grip and using high capacity batteries only the Z9 fits the bill. Canon is still going after the sports shooter with the R3.
It was disappointing that the Z7 II cannot use EN-EL18 batteries in the optional grip as this reduces its performance and keeps the camera from being a true backup for the Z9.
I was surprised at the AF results, particularly that the Canon R3 got dinged on AF tracking.
Display evaluation was still primarily based on EVF, LCD resolution. I don't think reviewers really know how to assess/test the Z9 lag free, live view EVF, so have to resort to resolution and LCD articulation.
The 'Canon R3 is not the Flagship' discussion is interesting to me. I've heard a Canon rep say the reason the R3 is not the Flagship is it does not have quite the same robust construction and weather sealing of the Canon 1DX MkIII. Of course, when the Canon Flagship mirrorless (R1?) does hit the market, the bar will have changed significantly.
Display evaluation was still primarily based on EVF, LCD resolution. I don't think reviewers really know how to assess/test the Z9 lag free, live view EVF, so have to resort to resolution and LCD articulation.
The 'Canon R3 is not the Flagship' discussion is interesting to me. I've heard a Canon rep say the reason the R3 is not the Flagship is it does not have quite the same robust construction and weather sealing of the Canon 1DX MkIII. Of course, when the Canon Flagship mirrorless (R1?) does hit the market, the bar will have changed significantly.
For what it's worth, they played the part of a "fan boy" for the entertainment value of the video, but if you have seen them in other videos they are very unbiased. They all have used the other systems and are very knowledgeable. The style of the presentation doesn't appeal to you, and I get that, but these three really do know all three systems quite well.
I agree that the lenses in the system need more attention when comparing the camera bodies. This will be ever changing through time, of course, but if you are paying $5500-6500 for a camera body, you don't want to wait around for a lens that fits your needs to be produced some time in the future.
tickle_my_nikon
Active member
Their entire way of rating the cameras was nonsense in my opinion, and largely based on the way they were perceiving the systems from their "fan boy" point of view. They were also making some ridiculous superficial comparisons instead of diving into valuable, comparative information that would be relevant. This video was made for people who will never buy one of these cameras.
I could give examples, but since the video didn't state anything more than you could read off the basic descriptions / specs of the cameras there is little point.
Interesting review, which left me feeling that all three cameras are excellent, and good solutions for wildlife, sports, and other action. However, overall it strikes me that the Nikon Z9 provides the best overall capability at a significantly lower price, especially when one takes into account the 47mp image size, and advanced video.
I couldn't disagree with you more. While light-hearted (and refreshingly so), I think it's a fair comparison by real photographers in the field, which is where the rubber meets the road. Although not an in-depth, side-by-side analysis, the review offers real-use observations - something that "specs" alone cannot provide. And, your quip about it being for people who will never buy any of these cameras is as absurd as it is wrong. I myself am evaluating whether to continue with the Nikon platform and buy the Z9, or switch to Sony, and I found the review helpful.
Be interesting to know the reasoning behind your judgments.
Although I'll most likely never be able to afford one of these high end flagship cameras it is fun to read about and watch videos about them. I thought this one was about as balanced as any. My take on these cameras from reading a lot and watching a lot of videos, without actually having used one, is that it really is a coin flip. They are all good, they all have some things they do better than the others but taken as a whole, pick one and make beautiful photos. Ferrari or a Bugatti which one? Most can never afford one but fun to dream.
Jeff
Jeff
Kinda simple for me. Cameras sorta equal. The difference is "catalog-ware" by and large.
I own 500PF and 300pf lenses which would work just fine on a future Nikon body, and I don't own any Sony or Canon lenses. What I think I am saying is that Nikon has ended losing photographers to other brands. However, past Nikon shooters who have also invested in Sony or Canon lenses are unlikely to come back.
What is key for me is that a D-500/d-850\\300pf/500pf combo seems the best low cost, low weight combo. I can shoot that combo for a year or two and see what transpires.
I own 500PF and 300pf lenses which would work just fine on a future Nikon body, and I don't own any Sony or Canon lenses. What I think I am saying is that Nikon has ended losing photographers to other brands. However, past Nikon shooters who have also invested in Sony or Canon lenses are unlikely to come back.
What is key for me is that a D-500/d-850\\300pf/500pf combo seems the best low cost, low weight combo. I can shoot that combo for a year or two and see what transpires.
Well, you're entitled to your opinions, but please take your abrasive name calling elsewhere. It doesn't belong on BCG.
Wow. Calling people a fool twice in the same paragraph... That's talent that we don't see very much on this forum. I certainly hope that you might have more than this to contribute here. But not for me.
It's totally okay that you didn't like the video and I DO NOT want to be confrontational. I'm am seriously interested in what about these various systems that applies to real world shooting you found lacking in the video. Since you just investigated these three cameras, your input might be helpful. Maybe you could give some insight and tips for the folks who are trying to decide what direction to take.
I put my money on one of these, but I’m sure I’d be very happy with any of them. A week of work using the Z with both Z and adapted F lenses and I absolutely love it.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, i basically consider them entertainment.
Griffym
Well-known member
I enjoyed the video. There was quite a lot of deliberate tongue in cheek banter between them, which is fine by me. The observations I personally took away are that I can see that each camera is really good with slightly different strengths and levels of performance. I also noticed that they often said that the differences were really close.
I think “winning” is something which should be sent up mercilessly with silly banter, it’s good for viewer clicks. Don’t take it too seriously though. It is really only trying to establish which one has the highest status symbol rating.
I am buying a Z9 because I shoot Nikon and don’t own Canon or Sony lenses. The video just lets me know that it is comparable to the others and does some things differently. I have never even thought about swapping. If I can buy a Nikon camera which will help me get shots that I could not otherwise get, that’s something to get excited about.
I think “winning” is something which should be sent up mercilessly with silly banter, it’s good for viewer clicks. Don’t take it too seriously though. It is really only trying to establish which one has the highest status symbol rating.
I am buying a Z9 because I shoot Nikon and don’t own Canon or Sony lenses. The video just lets me know that it is comparable to the others and does some things differently. I have never even thought about swapping. If I can buy a Nikon camera which will help me get shots that I could not otherwise get, that’s something to get excited about.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Nope I think they gave Z9 #1 because the images were actually in focus when viewed on a computer rather than just 'looking nice' on the EVF but soft when viewed on a computer. LoL. I'd any day prefer a relatively slower updating AF box on the EVF display but crisp images on the computer vs the opposite ;-)