Z8 / Z9 DECISIONS

[ingweDave]

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I have been using this set up for quite some time and although I like the operation, it always concerns me how awkward it is to attach the side mount and also the amount of weight that is being supported on the side of the gimbal. (I am an engineer) I have even set up a Kensington lead, wrapped around the gimbal, with a short length of lead into the Kensington lock on the 800pf. I realise that this is not intended to take the weight of the camera and lens but have always thought it may avoid a disaster. Anyway, after using this setup for a long time, on this particular day I didn't attach the cable! You can probably guess what coming next. It was almost slow motion as the Z9 + 800pf hit the deck. To be fair, it was not the hardest of falls, onto bare earth but the lens sheered off, removing the mount from the body. My two local companions didn't know what to say but after some seconds I said it was my stupid fault. Although I am obsessive about checking the tightness of the Arca Swiss clamp, I clearly didn't on this occasion. After a few minutes contemplation, my companions informed me that the Nikon Australia headquarters were only 1200 yards away! Off I trudged and 15 minutes later I was in the reception of Nikon Australia. Here I was greeted by a large poster, telling me the new Z mounts are 60% thinner than the F mounts!! This possibly contribute to the ease of failure but I am not blaming that! Nikon were really helpful and removed the camera mount from the lens but said nothing could be done, in the week I had left, with the camera body.

By coincidence, this was the day that the Z8 was launched. I had no intention of ordering one, although it seemed a great camera, I have 2x Z9 bodies which I love. However, with the days events and being several hours ahead in Australia, in the early hours of the next morning I decided to place an order.
I am NPS and the store that I use said I was 4th in the queue. All being well, there is a possibility of having a Z8 within a few weeks. I am expecting the Z9 repair to take some time, so I am ultimately going to have the decision to make of selling the Z8 with low mileage or selling a Z9. I have really gotten used to having the two Z9s set with identical setting but as the Z8 is so similar, it would not be hard to have it set the same, albeit having to configure manually. I am interested to hear from other Z9 users whether they are considering mixing Z9 + Z8 baring in mind that 2x Z9s are already available to me.
p.s. You would not believe how many times I have rechecked the tightness of the clamp, now I am using my second Z9 on the 800pf!!!

 

[John Navitsky]

bummer about your mishap.

while the z8 may indeed balance better, i don’t think it has the lock point

edit: oh, i see you’re locking to the lens

 

[ingweDave]

bummer about your mishap.

while the z8 may indeed balance better, i don’t think it has the lock point

edit: oh, i see you’re locking to the lens

Hi John. Yes it is not the support issue, it is the camera selection I am interested in. The Wimberley Mono Gimbal balances well if it is secured properly. Other heads I have tried are putting less strain on the mount but do not balance as well. As I said, that's a different issue.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

As one who allowed a D5 and 400/2.8 to drop out of a safari vehicle while shooting a leopard with another camera and had to wait an hour for it to be safe to pick up the pieces (yes the mount was ripped out of the D5) I sympathize.

I VERY strongly advocate use of over door bean bags and a panning plate when shooting from a vehicle and, unless it is essential, not fixing one's camera to a mount. Action can just happen fas and what if it is on the other side of the vehicle or a cheetah chase that you have to shoot from out of the top hatch/roof.

Now if you are going to mount the camera I suggest looking at some of the "bolt on" door mounts. Professional documentary videos shooters remove the door and very study cages, with vibration reduction and the rest -- well if you are mounting a few hundred thousand dollars of gear then ok -- but for mortals -- Ralph Pollack at www.GimPRo.co.za (South Africa) makes the "Door Mount MKII" which I have used and is one of the best. Of course there are many other options.

I consider a gimbal to be dangerous on a monopod at any time - but in a vehicle:
- If you are going to use a Monopod in a vehicle then it "must" be clamped -- RRS used to sell a Safari Kit to do this. Other solutions are possible with a few manfrotto super clamps/arms etc..
- a sidekick style gimbal is preferable to a full gimbal
- top of my list is the Acratech long lens head -- much more of a tilt and swivel mount and far smaller, lighter and far more stable than a gimbal -- these days I only use gimbals support by a tripod.

 

[ingweDave]

As one who allowed a D5 and 400/2.8 to drop out of a safari vehicle while shooting a leopard with another camera and had to wait an hour for it to be safe to pick up the pieces (yes the mount was ripped out of the D5) I sympathize.

I VERY strongly advocate use of over door bean bags and a panning plate when shooting from a vehicle and, unless it is essential, not fixing one's camera to a mount. Action can just happen fas and what if it is on the other side of the vehicle or a cheetah chase that you have to shoot from out of the top hatch/roof.

Now if you are going to mount the camera I suggest looking at some of the "bolt on" door mounts. Professional documentary videos shooters remove the door and very study cages, with vibration reduction and the rest -- well if you are mounting a few hundred thousand dollars of gear then ok -- but for mortals -- Ralph Pollack at www.GimPRo.co.za (South Africa) makes the "Door Mount MKII" which I have used and is one of the best. Of course there are many other options.

I consider a gimbal to be dangerous on a monopod at any time - but in a vehicle:
- If you are going to use a Monopod in a vehicle then it "must" be clamped -- RRS used to sell a Safari Kit to do this. Other solutions are possible with a few manfrotto super clamps/arms etc..
- a sidekick style gimbal is preferable to a full gimbal
- top of my list is the Acratech long lens head -- much more of a tilt and swivel mount and far smaller, lighter and far more stable than a gimbal -- these days I only use gimbals support by a tripod.

Andy. This is a little off topic from what I started but I am very interested in the door mount. I spend a good deal of time in South Africa and will be spending time in the Kgalagadi in a few weeks. Do you have experience using this mount on different vehicles? I am normally in vehicles such as Toyota Fortuner, or typical large "Bakkies". It also looks as though it would fit well on my Defender back here in UK.

 

[John Woodworth]

Replying to the OP's question, I have a Z9 and ordered a Z8. I often use three bodies, a Z6ii and Z7ii along with the Z9, at the same gig and have, surprisingly, been able to switch back and forth between the three cameras easily.

I prefer the Z9 for portrait orientation, so it is not going anywhere once the Z8 arrives. (Also, I use the GPS for time synch.)

Given the similarity of the Z8 and Z9 controls, I think that switching between the two will be no problem and its smaller size will make it more suitable for everyday shooting with smaller lenses.

 

[ingweDave]

Replying to the OP's question, I have a Z9 and ordered a Z8. I often use three bodies, a Z6ii and Z7ii along with the Z9, at the same gig and have, surprisingly, been able to switch back and forth between the three cameras easily.

I prefer the Z9 for portrait orientation, so it is not going anywhere once the Z8 arrives. (Also, I use the GPS for time synch.)

Given the similarity of the Z8 and Z9 controls, I think that switching between the two will be no problem and its smaller size will make it more suitable for everyday shooting with smaller lenses.

Thanks John. The smaller size is appealing in some situations and may sway me. Without the issue I have, it would not have been enough to move from 2x Z9.

 

[Anjin San]

Terrible mishap…but I for one am not concerned about the Z8 amd Z9 not being absolutely identical. They are really almost identical except for the loss of a front Fn3 and the bottom back buttons that I don’t use anyway…and the lighter body when a lighter and/or smaller body is needed and the I don’t care about a grip anyway and actually would prefer no grip stop me from using both of them. I could see myself selling the Z9 for a second Z8 if it turns out I really like it better…but selling the Z8 for a second Z9 loses the weight advantage and I really can’t see that happening. I will lose one of the extra AF areas on the front buttons…but I can always put that on DISP with AF On if i miss it…but otherwise the two bodies will be set up the same.

Since you’ve got 2 Z9s already…the Z8 probably isn’t necessary unless the having a lighter body at the cost of Fn3 and buttons you might not use anyway.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

Andy. This is a little off topic from what I started but I am very interested in the door mount. I spend a good deal of time in South Africa and will be spending time in the Kgalagadi in a few weeks. Do you have experience using this mount on different vehicles? I am normally in vehicles such as Toyota Fortuner, or typical large "Bakkies". It also looks as though it would fit well on my Defender back here in UK.

Go on to Ralph’s web site - down load the installation instruction and watch the vids and send him the question - he will probably say yes it will fit and if he does it will.
I only used this in South Africa and the gimbals and chairs in Botswana and Namibia. I have not bought one.

 

[ingweDave]

Go on to Ralph’s web site - down load the installation instruction and watch the vids and send him the question - he will probably say yes it will fit and if he does it will.
I only used this in South Africa and the gimbals and chairs in Botswana and Namibia. I have not bought one.

Thanks Andy. I watched the video before going on to look at the price. For what looks like a well made product, it seems reasonable.

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

I am also looking at adding another body - either a Z8 or a second Z9
Size is really very attractive on the Z8 - but that is the only reason I am even looking at the Z8. The Z9 is really too big for my hands.
But the Z9 battery is superior - so I am between a rock and a hard place myself.
Mixing bodies doesn't bother me - but as said - for the Z8 I would have to have extra batteries

Would it bother you to have 2 different kind of batteries - which also means 2 different battery chargers?

btw I sent you a PM

 

[fcotterill]

Firstly very sorry about the loss of your Z9!

My 0.02c on Gimpro. I bought the Gimpro II in 2017, and I've since compared it it against at least 4 other gimbals for heavier telephotos. The adjustable plate lock is unique and impossible to match IME, and I would never trust a screw locking foot on a gimbal nor ballhead.

I haven't used the door mounted rig but it's fairly common sight in Kruger NP mounted on Toyota 4WD's and LR Defenders. My reason is I prefer the flexibility of a bean bag or lagging tube (types synthetic rubber) clipped over the window pane.

Rigby in London imports Gimpro, including the door rig (note Bob Rigby, not the infamous London gunsmiths of bespoke rifle fame!)

I do wonder how an external mounted gimbal handles vibrations on rough roads or being swiped by branches on bushtracks.

Last year I also bought the Gimpro Gemini, which works really well. Photos here. Last time I looked it wasn't shown on Wayne's website but I bought mine from OutdoorPhoto, Pretoria. Both models are built like an item of military equipment, excellent quality in the needle bearings using CAD/CAM machining.

Images of Gemini

Comparisons: 800mm f5.6E FL and 800mm f6.3S PF Nikkors

Here follow a selection of images taken over the past several months with both lenses, with/without their respective teleconverters. I have built up a sizeable database since mid 2022, when time and conditions permitted. I took all these primarily with the aim of trying to define the...

bcgforums.com

Andy. This is a little off topic from what I started but I am very interested in the door mount. I spend a good deal of time in South Africa and will be spending time in the Kgalagadi in a few weeks. Do you have experience using this mount on different vehicles? I am normally in vehicles such as Toyota Fortuner, or typical large "Bakkies". It also looks as though it would fit well on my Defender back here in UK.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

Mounting cameras on vehicles is off topic - so please start a thread if you wish to discuss.

 

[abc123brian]

Would it bother you to have 2 different kind of batteries - which also means 2 different battery chargers?

batteries are less of an issue for me than having to carry different memory cards or lenses, but it can still be an inconvenience. Fortunately the Z9 batteries last a long time so you can probably get away with a single spare, but it’s nice to carry a few batteries that can be used in either camera. To get around the battery charger issue, you could carry a usb c cable and charge in camera.

 

[John Woodworth]

Yes. It's not so much the different batteries, but rather the different chargers. In-camera charging helps this to some degree.

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

Yes. It's not so much the different batteries, but rather the different chargers. In-camera charging helps this to some degree.

Can't charge while shooting - so I would need at least one extra battery - if not 2 for the bush

 

[John Woodworth]

Can't charge while shooting - so I would need at least one extra battery - if not 2 for the bush

Yes. And recharging multiple batteries in-camera back at the hotel is a minor pain...Just another tradeoff.

 

[IainD]

Horrible. I have watched many times as photographers in groups with me have carried their 600mm lenses and pro bodies mounted on tripods carried over one shoulder. I tried it for a second and thought it was not for me, and carried my rig by the lens foot, with a strap attached to the foot as well. That was mainly for comfort, and I thought the shoulder carry must be safe or people wouldn't do it. Your experience shows I was lucky.
I hope the Z9 can be saved (I think it will be from the description!) and I am sorry my home country has left a bad taste for you! Good luck. And let us know when you get to try the Z8!!
Iain

 

[O]

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I have been using this set up for quite some time and although I like the operation, it always concerns me how awkward it is to attach the side mount and also the amount of weight that is being supported on the side of the gimbal. (I am an engineer) I have even set up a Kensington lead, wrapped around the gimbal, with a short length of lead into the Kensington lock on the 800pf. I realise that this is not intended to take the weight of the camera and lens but have always thought it may avoid a disaster. Anyway, after using this setup for a long time, on this particular day I didn't attach the cable! You can probably guess what coming next. It was almost slow motion as the Z9 + 800pf hit the deck. To be fair, it was not the hardest of falls, onto bare earth but the lens sheered off, removing the mount from the body. My two local companions didn't know what to say but after some seconds I said it was my stupid fault. Although I am obsessive about checking the tightness of the Arca Swiss clamp, I clearly didn't on this occasion. After a few minutes contemplation, my companions informed me that the Nikon Australia headquarters were only 1200 yards away! Off I trudged and 15 minutes later I was in the reception of Nikon Australia. Here I was greeted by a large poster, telling me the new Z mounts are 60% thinner than the F mounts!! This possibly contribute to the ease of failure but I am not blaming that! Nikon were really helpful and removed the camera mount from the lens but said nothing could be done, in the week I had left, with the camera body.

By coincidence, this was the day that the Z8 was launched. I had no intention of ordering one, although it seemed a great camera, I have 2x Z9 bodies which I love. However, with the days events and being several hours ahead in Australia, in the early hours of the next morning I decided to place an order.
I am NPS and the store that I use said I was 4th in the queue. All being well, there is a possibility of having a Z8 within a few weeks. I am expecting the Z9 repair to take some time, so I am ultimately going to have the decision to make of selling the Z8 with low mileage or selling a Z9. I have really gotten used to having the two Z9s set with identical setting but as the Z8 is so similar, it would not be hard to have it set the same, albeit having to configure manually. I am interested to hear from other Z9 users whether they are considering mixing Z9 + Z8 baring in mind that 2x Z9s are already available to me.
p.s. You would not believe how many times I have rechecked the tightness of the clamp, now I am using my second Z9 on the 800pf!!!

I have always as long as i can remember used a small piece of soft strong curtain cord like lashing as a safety catch, when i throw the lens and mono pod or even tripod over my shoulder, with the Wemberly or other heads, twice i have had the camera lens combo drop off also all my fault, fortunately in both cases the camera and lens very uncomfortably but safely was hanging/held/caught by the curtain like cord.

Also at times i notice that the 3/8 screw into the base plate tends to at times loosen on long walks, i mean its a short SS 3/8 thread in soft aluminum thread, this experience is what initially inspired me to just place/loop this cord, its easy to loop and attache or remove, never an issue.

Its not maybe what you want to do but its saved my bacon a few times, now it's second nature.

As to the choice between the Z8 or Z9, i would go with either 2x Z9 units or 2x Z8 units so I am not carrying different batteries cards etc, If weight is an issue you have the answer, if not wait a little while as the Z9 II has to be around the corner as there is a need go next level and to differentiate more from the Z8.

Regardless of reviews and claims i would wait a while for the Z8 to be in the field.

Only an opinion

 

[O]

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I have been using this set up for quite some time and although I like the operation, it always concerns me how awkward it is to attach the side mount and also the amount of weight that is being supported on the side of the gimbal. (I am an engineer) I have even set up a Kensington lead, wrapped around the gimbal, with a short length of lead into the Kensington lock on the 800pf. I realise that this is not intended to take the weight of the camera and lens but have always thought it may avoid a disaster. Anyway, after using this setup for a long time, on this particular day I didn't attach the cable! You can probably guess what coming next. It was almost slow motion as the Z9 + 800pf hit the deck. To be fair, it was not the hardest of falls, onto bare earth but the lens sheered off, removing the mount from the body. My two local companions didn't know what to say but after some seconds I said it was my stupid fault. Although I am obsessive about checking the tightness of the Arca Swiss clamp, I clearly didn't on this occasion. After a few minutes contemplation, my companions informed me that the Nikon Australia headquarters were only 1200 yards away! Off I trudged and 15 minutes later I was in the reception of Nikon Australia. Here I was greeted by a large poster, telling me the new Z mounts are 60% thinner than the F mounts!! This possibly contribute to the ease of failure but I am not blaming that! Nikon were really helpful and removed the camera mount from the lens but said nothing could be done, in the week I had left, with the camera body.

By coincidence, this was the day that the Z8 was launched. I had no intention of ordering one, although it seemed a great camera, I have 2x Z9 bodies which I love. However, with the days events and being several hours ahead in Australia, in the early hours of the next morning I decided to place an order.
I am NPS and the store that I use said I was 4th in the queue. All being well, there is a possibility of having a Z8 within a few weeks. I am expecting the Z9 repair to take some time, so I am ultimately going to have the decision to make of selling the Z8 with low mileage or selling a Z9. I have really gotten used to having the two Z9s set with identical setting but as the Z8 is so similar, it would not be hard to have it set the same, albeit having to configure manually. I am interested to hear from other Z9 users whether they are considering mixing Z9 + Z8 baring in mind that 2x Z9s are already available to me.
p.s. You would not believe how many times I have rechecked the tightness of the clamp, now I am using my second Z9 on the 800pf!!!

At our club meet there are 11 people now who have actually ordered a Z8, it appears all are updating either the Z6 or Z7 series they have, strangely no one is updating the D850, over a cup of tea, i asked why to some of the D850 owners, they said, they are very happy with what they have, most said they don't need a z8 or z9............Ok, noted i said.
The next question to the D850 /DSLR owners was will you go mirror less at some time, many said don't know, or what for, love what i have. Again OK thank you.

Only an opinion

 

[fcotterill]

Opinions will differ, including over the respective costs of the Z9 versus Z8, but my decision reflects closely on Brad Hill's comparison of these two cameras

See the Field Notes under his landscape photo "Findlay Sunrise. Findlay Creek, BC, Canada. May 27, 2023." http://www.naturalart.ca/galleries/latest/index.html

 

[ingweDave]

I still have a decision to make on this. My second Z9 comes back from Nikon repair on Monday after a big drop. I was unsure whether it could be repaired and ordered a Z8. The Z8 sits unopened in my office. I will probably keep the 2x Z9 option and sell the unused Z8. The only thing that makes me hesitate is how I use the cameras. I have one Z9 with pf800 on a monopod and the other Z9 with a 100-400 on a Cotton Carrier chest mount. This works really well for me but the Z8 on the 100-400 would probably be better. The only downside I see is battery life.

 

[Anjin San]

Opinions will differ, including over the respective costs of the Z9 versus Z8, but my decision reflects closely on Brad Hill's comparison of these two cameras

See the Field Notes under his landscape photo "Findlay Sunrise. Findlay Creek, BC, Canada. May 27, 2023." http://www.naturalart.ca/galleries/latest/index.html

Brad’s comments are right on target…for Nrad and people who want what he wants. But use cases vary…and while I love the performance of the Z9…I have zero use for the vertical grip…well, less than zero actually, don’t miss the extra buttons, and don’t care about the lower battery life or SD card issues…because even with the Z9 and 2 cards there is always an extra battery in my pocket along with 2 spare cards. Given the loss of a bit over a pound in weight for the loss of a couple of features I don’t care about…especially as I very rarely shoot in portrait so just rotating my hands is no big deal…if I were buying new again today I would choose the Z8 100 times out of 100. I’m keeping the Z9 though…gives me a second body that works the same and I will carry both or just one depending on the situation and how far I’m going to be hiking…and in particular for our upcoming UK trip I am taking the Z8 and the Z7II bodies for weight…but then it isn’t a bucket type wildlife trip but a choral tour by wife/vacation/travel trip. Depending on how things go…I could see…possibly…maybe…switching the Z9 to something else lighter and smaller down the road…for the weight reason…but it’s not currently something I’m considering as the Z8 has only been here a week and has a couple dozen shots out back at the pond on it.

 

[Patrick M]

I still have a decision to make on this. My second Z9 comes back from Nikon repair on Monday after a big drop. I was unsure whether it could be repaired and ordered a Z8. The Z8 sits unopened in my office. I will probably keep the 2x Z9 option and sell the unused Z8. The only thing that makes me hesitate is how I use the cameras. I have one Z9 with pf800 on a monopod and the other Z9 with a 100-400 on a Cotton Carrier chest mount. This works really well for me but the Z8 on the 100-400 would probably be better. The only downside I see is battery life.

I always think having two of the same is better. Muscle memory, brain memory etc makes any changes in setup easy to duplicate. The difference between the z9 and z8 are small, but if you’re happy with two Z9s then stay with them.

 

[O]

Opinions will differ, including over the respective costs of the Z9 versus Z8, but my decision reflects closely on Brad Hill's comparison of these two cameras

See the Field Notes under his landscape photo "Findlay Sunrise. Findlay Creek, BC, Canada. May 27, 2023." http://www.naturalart.ca/galleries/latest/index.html

Interesting Brad Hill comments on the Z8, i think it resonates or validates many of my personal feelings in my earlier comments.

Also its testimony to what the Club members i have spoken with are doing, moving from a Z6,7, or DSLRS into a power house unit, many club member's said its because the Z8 is backwards compatible with DSLR lenses they have, not everyone has deep pockets or high credit card limits LOL.

I don't think its all about Z8 or Z9 as there really much the same, i think its more about tempting the Z6, Z7, DSLR owners to step up to a powerful new bench mark like Z8, thats the purpose of the Z8 i feel.

The new bench mark of the Z8 makes pretty well everything before it other than the Z9 somewhat obsolete in mirror less, it makes me think that Nikon will have to up the bench mark on the Z9, maybe once the Z8 has fully pipe-lined it will happen, my guess is first half 2024, if not before.

I think the Z8 is a clever and excellent tool, it meets 95% of users needs with just a few compromises that for most is not a deal breaker.

My self i like my Z9 size weight feel and what it offers, very much the same reasons Brad Hill refers to, i even like my D3x body feel, that said D4s D6.

I would like a slightly lighter Z7 like size weight body, with 60-80mp 12 fps, now that's KFC moment.

I looked at the camera weights and sizes listed below, i feel it reflects the introduction of more Video processing capacity/power/heat management capacity.

Weight and size Including battery, all shoot video other than the D3X

Z7 is 675g 134 x 100.5 x 67.5 mm (5.3 x 4.0 x 2.7″)
D3X 1260g 157 x 88 mm (6.3 x 6.18 x 3.46″) No Video
D6 1260g 160 x 163 x 92 mm (6.3 x 6.42 x 3.62″)
D850 1005g 146×124×78.5 mm (5.75×4.88×3.09 in)
Z9 1340g 149 x 150 x 91 mm (5.87 x 5.91 x 3.58″)
Z8 910 g 144 x 118.5 x 83 mm 5.7 x 4.7 x 3.3″)
Sony A1 737g 129 x 97 x 81 mm (5.08 x 3.82 x 3.19″)

So if 430g extra weight of the Z9 is an issue for you, your only option is compromise and get a Z8, or don't have that Big Mac 240G and Coke 650 G before you go out LOL

Z8 or Z9, the Compromise = for some it is, for many its probably not............they are both tools and each has its purpose, the question also comes to mind, what is it you actually need from a camera as apposed to what you want, and is there a difference.

Only an opinion